Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Diomedes]

Regarding this bill, Obama has also performed admirably.  He's invited the opposition into the WH for discussions.  He even took a step that few Presidents ever have..he went to them.  He asked for provisions they disliked to be removed as a result of their complaints.

Yet you and your ilk discredit these moves as disingenuous, betraying your established prejudice against the man.  He cannot change the way Washington works, or the way Congress works, single handedly..but he's certainly doing his part.  Far more than any president any of us can remember.

Not enough for you?  Of course not.  He's a Dem so he's the enemy, regardless.

[phillymic2000]

I do not think he was genuine, so that means I hate the man? I think he wants some support from the other side so if it fails he and his team are not standing alone. I don't blame him for thinking that, I'm sure most probably would. I just thought it was hollow.

[ice grillin you]

Regarding this bill, Obama has also performed admirably.  He's invited the opposition into the WH for discussions.  He even took a step that few Presidents ever have..he went to them.  He asked for provisions they disliked to be removed as a result of their complaints.

Yet you and your ilk discredit these moves as disingenuous, betraying your established prejudice against the man.  He cannot change the way Washington works, or the way Congress works, single handedly..but he's certainly doing his part.  Far more than any president any of us can remember.

Not enough for you?  Of course not.  He's a Dem so he's the enemy, regardless.

its not even that hes a dem...its that he based his entire campaign on change...so do you honestly think the pubs are going to allow him to accomplish that...imagine if he actually was able to create a largely bi partisan washinton...imagine if change actually happens...in other words he delivers on his promises...

the pub party is in the shteinter as it is and were obama able to do what he said it would a death blow to them...problem is he cant fully do what he wants without their help...so by the nature of politics there is a huge conflict of interest here because i believe there are good honest pubs in congress who want change but none of them want obama to achieve it

so what i imagine is going to happen over the next four years is that its all gonna come down to who wins the public relations battle...obama is going to try and implement his change and the pubs are gonna try to stop him...who wins the pr war is the question...in this first few weeks and having to do with this stimulus package the pubs have def come out on top...the daschel thing hasnt helped as it got barry off message...but regardless they have won this battle...he took some back with that speech last night which imo was crazy good and didnt get nearly enough attention today

[ATV]

Change.

I'll tell you what change is. Change was not when Obama's cabinet nominee was being criticised for having a delinquent tax history. The change was, the change we were hoping for and were promised, when Obama stepped to the plate and basically said "Alright, my mistake, we can't have this under my leadership".

Yes. In case you haven't figured it out, this is change because our previous and incompetent "President" would never have stepped to the plate. He would have pulled any underhanded poltical manuevering (bullying, using fear, exposing their undercover status, etc) to assure that his unqualified appointee was forced through and passed despite the minority party's objections. To make matters worse, he would have tried to justify this by arguing that he had a "mandate" or "political capital", even though he had been in two of the closest elections in U.S. history.

That's change.

Obama may be a novice but he's no halfwit drunkard born-again silver-spoon frat boy.

[phillymic2000]

Geithner,  the Treasury Sec. who had tax issues is still at his post. But I do/did agree Mr. President did the right thing by coming out and taking the issue head on.

[ice grillin you]

do you really care that geitner made what by all accounts is an honest or at worst an ignorant mistake...i mean is there a politician in washington that has paid their taxes 100% correctly...granted it looks worse for barry because of his ad nauseum proclamations of change...and because of those i myself hold him up to a larger standard than should be expected

but for god sakes 2000 to say that geitner is "still at his post" when dick cheney was virtually running out govt for eight years after all the haliburton stuff and yet you never once called for his impeachment just exposes you as the worst kind of partisan fraud ive seen

[Diomedes]

here's a list of the cuts made by the Senate which reduced the bill by a 100 Bil

$40 billion State Fiscal Stabilization
$16 billion School Construction
$1.25 billion project based rental
$2.25 Neighborhood Stabilization (Eliminate)
$1.2 billion in Retrofiting Project 8 Housing
$7.5 billion of State Incentive Grants
$3.5 billion Higher Ed Construction (Eliminated)
$ 100 million FSA modernization
$50 million CSERES Research
$65 million Watershed Rehab
$30 million SD Salaries
$100 million Distance Learning
$98 million School Nutrition
$50 million aquaculture
$2 billion broadband
$1 billion Head Start/Early Start
$5.8 billion Health Prevention Activity.
$2 billion HIT Grants
$1 billion Energy Loan Guarantees
$4.5 billion GSA
$3.5 billion Federal Bldgs Greening

$100 million NIST
$100 million NOAA
$100 million Law Enforcement Wireless
$50 million Detention Trustee
$25 million Marshalls Construction
$100 million FBI Construction
$300 million Federal Prisons
$300 million BYRNE Formula
$140 million BYRNE Competitive
$10 million State and Local Law Enforcement
$50 million NASA
$50 million Aeronautics
$50 million Exploration
$50 million Cross Agency Support
$200 million NSF
$100 million Science
$89 million GSA Operations
$300 million Fed Hybrid Vehicles
$50 million from DHS
$200 million TSA
$122 million for Coast Guard Cutters, modifies use
$25 million Fish and Wildlife
$55 million Historic Preservation
$20 million working capital fund
$200 million Superfund
$165 million Forest Svc Capital Improvement
$90 million State & Private Wildlife Fire Management
$75 million Smithsonian
$600 million Title I (NCLB)

source

[Diomedes]

a lot of jobs in there

[shorebird]

union Jobs all.

You are simply wrong.  Plenty of auto wokers are non union (at Toyota and Honda), and lots of the workers at parts plants are non-union.   You're just wrong, grasping at anything to keep your whining argument going.

Also...unions are still good on balance.  Without them, the middle class would be entirely white collar.

Bullshtein, my main point is that it won't create any jobs. None. Not a single one. Or do you think that new people will have to be hired to build 600 million dollars worth of cars, hybrid or otherwise? I'm not grasping at anything, it's wasteful spending that doesn't need to happen now when the economy is in the crapper, and the argument that hybrid cars will save money is ridiculous. We are talking 600 million. It seems to me it will take an awful long time to recoup that money on gas mileage alone. Especially when cars are already available. What happens to them?? They are sold at auction for a loss, that's what happens.

But, I will say this, at least a attempt is being made to trim this bill. 300 mill on this issue is a compromise, but still, I don't think that it should have been there in the first place, it's like the bill was loaded up just so it could be trimmed and the dems still get what they originally wanted, which is fine, they won the election and that's the way it is.

[shorebird]

a lot of jobs in there

Most all government jobs, and not nearly as many as have been lost in the private sector. And I dispute the notion that jobs will be lost because of money not being spent that wasn't going to be spent in the first place before this bill was drawn up. It's not creating any jobs, but it's not eliminating them like you think, imo.

[Diomedes]

So if you reject the idea that spending will create jobs, then how do you propose we get the economy going again? 

Sit and wait?

[Rome]

Leave it to the GOP to cut spending on school nutrition and head start programs.

Who needs smart and healthy children anyway!

[Butchers Bill]

Leave it to the GOP to cut spending on school nutrition and head start programs.

Who needs smart and healthy children anyway!

This bill was not the place for those things.  Are those two things going to put people back to work??

Most Americans (based on the polls anyway) seem to think that any government spending is stimulus and therefore "good".  What they don't understand is that this has all been tried before (see FDR 1932-1941 and LBJ 1965-1968) and failed miserably.

[Diomedes]

If the government doesn't kickstart the economy by increased spending, who will?  There's plenty of capital out there on the sidelines, being held out of play because investors don't want to risk.  Tax breaks won't help anyone who really needs the help, because tax cuts don't equal jobs until years later in the best case scenario, and jobs are what is needed.  Besides, that's assuming that a tax break is enough reason for a company to hire someone, which I don't think is how it works.  People are hired when growth and sales warrant the expense, not because the company has an extra few dollars to spend.  More often than not, extra dollars go to management and sometmes even shareholders.  Who are in turn rich themselves and will just continue to sit on their money.

[stalker]

ELIMINATE THE CAPITAL GAINS TAX....CUT BUSINESS TAX......CUT ALL PERSONAL INCOME TAXES