Fair Shot For McNabb In Philly?

[rjs246]

This topic is ridiculous because McNabb was part of a very talented team in 2002, 2003 and 2004 that had legit shots at championships. However, having said that, the front office hasn't done everything it could in two major ways:
1. They never bothered to find McNabb a receiving threat to grow with. The drafted Mitchell, but he obviously wasn't a star and they knew that fairly early on. They got TO, but knew that they he was going to be on a short leash and certainly never planned on having him around for the long term. McNabb is a good quarterback with GREAT ability and if he had had some talent on the outside to get some experience and chemistry with, he would be a much better player than he is.
2. They farging coddled him. At no point in his professional career has he been held accountable for any of his failures. He was labeled 'The Franchise' the instant he was drafted. When he has not played well, no one inside the orgaization has ever said anything even remotely negative about him. When he passive aggressively whines about shtein no one says anything. He's been handled kids gloves since his arrival and has never been forced to toughen up or grow up. And that, more than anything, is how the organization has failed MacNabb.

[hunt]

That ain't right, dude.

i'm not taking credit for the pic or saying i agree with it...i jacked it from the emb.


it's kinda funny though.

[ice grillin you]

They never bothered to find McNabb a receiving threat to grow with

i have no problem with the wide receiver excuse...i will only say that there has always been a large portion of eagle fans who say how great mcnabb is then say he hasnt been given wr's....you cant have it both ways...either hes not that great of a qb and needs great wr's or hes a great qb whos failed

i mean mcnabb was so great to get a team without wr's to a league champisonhip game but as soon as he got there the wr's all of sudden started to hold the team back...i dont buy it

look around at the teams that have won superbowls over say the last ten years...theres been teams without great wr that have won titles


They farging coddled him

the question here is did they coddle him because he was andys signature pick and they didnt want to show his faults or did they coddle him because they know better than anyone that hes softbatch

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

When it comes down to it, my biggest complaint about Donovan is that he let's haters get to him a lot more than he should:

Cataldi in 1999
Limbaugh
Philly NAACP

None of that was actually "adversity".  Tom Brady got drafted in the 6th round.  That's adversity.

[rjs246]

They never bothered to find McNabb a receiving threat to grow with

i have no problem with the wide receiver excuse...i will only say that there has always been a large portion of eagle fans who say how great mcnabb is then say he hasnt been given wr's....you cant have it both ways...either hes not that great of a qb and needs great wr's or hes a great qb whos failed

i mean mcnabb was so great to get a team without wr's to a league champisonhip game but as soon as he got there the wr's all of sudden started to hold the team back...i dont buy it

look around at the teams that have won superbowls over say the last ten years...theres been teams without great wr that have won titles

I agree 100% with all of this. You don't need great receivers to win the big one and less talented teams have earned superbowl wins. My point was simply that McNabb has never had a chance to develop chemistry with a receiver b/c he's never had the same receiving corps, let alone a star, to play with for more than a year or two at a time and I'm pretty sure he'd be a lot further along if he had been given some stability.

[ice grillin you]

definitely

i guess imo the bottom line is mcnabb is overrated and needs more help than most people would admit including andy reid

theres also the matter of andy reid not only overrating mcnabb but overrating his own offensive system....but thats another thread

[Diomedes]

When I read a question like this, all I can see is Donovan laughing after throwing an INT or ugly incompletion, as though he doesn't have a care in the world. 

Fair shot?  Yeah...he's had a more than fair shot.

[Displaced]

They never bothered to find McNabb a receiving threat to grow with

i have no problem with the wide receiver excuse...i will only say that there has always been a large portion of eagle fans who say how great mcnabb is then say he hasnt been given wr's....you cant have it both ways...either hes not that great of a qb and needs great wr's or hes a great qb whos failed

i mean mcnabb was so great to get a team without wr's to a league champisonhip game but as soon as he got there the wr's all of sudden started to hold the team back...i dont buy it

look around at the teams that have won superbowls over say the last ten years...theres been teams without great wr that have won title.

This argument just doesn't follow logically.

The fact that he has accomplished as much as he has without the great supporting cast speaks volumes about his individual ability.

Remember something...winning in the regular season and the first round of the playoffs is a whole different thing altogether than winning the Conference Championship game or the Superbowl.  When you get there the teams with the greatest overall team or the team that is simply hot and playing the best football of the season wins.

Yes ther have been teams without great WRs that won the Superbowl but that is part of my original point.  The Ravens did it with average receivers but had great play from them when it counted most and rode a dominating defense to the Chip.  Same can be said for the Bucs as well as the Patriots.

The Stealers rode a great running game as did the Broncos.

I think it is fair to say that if put at the helm of any of those teams McNabb would have had as much success.

My beef or more accurately my point is that for whatever reason the Eagles did not field the kind of team that made up for it's deficencies the way these other teams did during McNabb's tenure up to this point.

Running Game:  Broncos, Ravens, Patriots, Stealers, Rams

Dominating defense:  Ravens, Bucs. Pats, Stealers


Dominating recieving core:  Colts, Rams 

[Magical_Retard]

They never bothered to find McNabb a receiving threat to grow with

i have no problem with the wide receiver excuse...i will only say that there has always been a large portion of eagle fans who say how great mcnabb is then say he hasnt been given wr's....you cant have it both ways...either hes not that great of a qb and needs great wr's or hes a great qb whos failed

i mean mcnabb was so great to get a team without wr's to a league champisonhip game but as soon as he got there the wr's all of sudden started to hold the team back...i dont buy it

look around at the teams that have won superbowls over say the last ten years...theres been teams without great wr that have won title.

This argument just doesn't follow logically.

The fact that he has accomplished as much as he has without the great supporting cast speaks volumes about his individual ability.

Remember something...winning in the regular season and the first round of the playoffs is a whole different thing altogether than winning the Conference Championship game or the Superbowl.  When you get there the teams with the greatest overall team or the team that is simply hot and playing the best football of the season wins.

Yes ther have been teams without great WRs that won the Superbowl but that is part of my original point.  The Ravens did it with average receivers but had great play from them when it counted most and rode a dominating defense to the Chip.  Same can be said for the Bucs as well as the Patriots.

The Stealers rode a great running game as did the Broncos.

I think it is fair to say that if put at the helm of any of those teams McNabb would have had as much success.

My beef or more accurately my point is that for whatever reason the Eagles did not field the kind of team that made up for it's deficencies the way these other teams did during McNabb's tenure up to this point.

Running Game:  Broncos, Ravens, Patriots, Stealers, Rams

Dominating defense:  Ravens, Bucs. Pats, Stealers


Dominating recieving core:  Colts, Rams 

exactly...those teams with ok to good WRs had either dominating DEFENSES or RUNNING games which the coaches actually used. with mcnabb its been that he hasnt really had the great WRs and instead of realizing this and running the ball to make up for the lack of WRs we keep passing. defensively we were solid but i wouldnt say dominating...esp against the run.

with that said when you get to 4 straight to NFC champ games you expect to win the big one at least once. the pats did overmatch them but mcnabb and the eagles did not live up to expectations on at least 2 out of those 4 runs. mcnabb had a lot do with that with his INTs which i blame him and the WRs for.

in the end its not that he hasnt had a fair shot or a team capable of winning it all, its just that the teams he has had were never utilized correctly.

[ice grillin you]

i love the revisionist history with the eagles defense.....they had some great defenses...plenty good enough to win the superbowl much less get to it

from 2000-2004 the eagles defense ranked the following in pts 4, 2, 2, 7, 3

their running game with duce and westbrook was fine as well...you certainly can blame coaching here as reid didnt utilize it as much as he should but again they had a fine running game finishing in the top in rushing a couple of those years

the bottom line is that mcnabb hasnt been a good enough qb to win a championship throwing up some real bad games in some real big spots...were the wr's not good enough yes...but it wasnt that they werent good enough to win a superbowl it was that they werent good enough to win a superbowl with a qb like mcnabb...someone who isnt very accurate doesnt play under pressure that well and isnt a guy thats gonna elevate his receivers he needs receivers that will elevate him

[MURP]

has he been given the best shot possible as some other QB's. No

has he been given a good shot. yes

[Magical_Retard]

i love the revisionist history with the eagles defense.....they had some great defenses...plenty good enough to win the superbowl much less get to it

from 2000-2004 the eagles defense ranked the following in pts 4, 2, 2, 7, 3

their running game with duce and westbrook was fine as well...you certainly can blame coaching here as reid didnt utilize it as much as he should but again they had a fine running game finishing in the top in rushing a couple of those years

the bottom line is that mcnabb hasnt been a good enough qb to win a championship throwing up some real bad games in some real big spots...were the wr's not good enough yes...but it wasnt that they werent good enough to win a superbowl it was that they werent good enough to win a superbowl with a qb like mcnabb...someone who isnt very accurate doesnt play under pressure that well and isnt a guy thats gonna elevate his receivers he needs receivers that will elevate him

like i said....aside from the st louis game and the carolina game (no westbrook and WRs being beaten up all game) our team really had no excuses. but im not going to blame mcnabb completely for those. but he did have a lot to do with that. it also had to do with the WRs who are either not in the league anymore or are 3-4 on the depth chart on other teams who rarely got open. as for the defense they were great and kept us in games most of the season but just cause your ranked behind baltimore or tampa bay does not mean your at their level. esp the baltimore defense...it was a force. they won with trent dilfer. does that mean dilfer is better than mcnabb? at least baltimore knew what they had and how to make it work.

you like to propagate this myth that McNabb did not make these WRs better. has anyone? pinkston and mitchell are no longer in the league. trash is buried in washington. McNabb could have played better but he did no have a lot to work with. you yourself claim the NFC was so weak and thats why we made it so far each year so a lot figured into it.

and of course a lot falls on reid for having duce, buck (he was pretty good when healthy), and westbrook and pretty much refusing to use them unless it was in the passing/screen game.

anyway this is kinda pointless...if McNabb wins the big one sometime it will be all forgotten like it was with others and if he doesnt then he is forever cursed to be analyzed by everyone as if he was a psych patient. i just personally think that with the resources available to this FO, they could have done more to make us win now (or back then).

[MadMarchHare]

As I mentioned in another thread once, I don't give two shteins about any individual on this team.  I want the Eagles to win a ring so I can enjoy it.  And I don't really care who on the team does that.  If they're part of the problem, ship 'em.  And the number one problem on this team is Reid.

[ice grillin you]

but im not going to blame mcnabb completely

no one is

[Magical_Retard]

but im not going to blame mcnabb completely

no one is

well you might not be but the majority of the anti mcnabb fanbase thinks everything is his fault.