The 2007 Offseason Thread

[PhillyPhreak54]

Garcia is adored because he's a nutzo on the field and screams and gets dirty. Its the Philly way. Sometimes fans will like a guy if he's a dirtball more than if he's a good player. I don't understand that sometimes.

i dont know how you dont understand that...if mcnabb had one ounce of the fire garcia had hed be a much better player...mcnabbs biggest problem is not talent...its confidence and the lack of ability to not get down during tough times...also his desire to not lose is absent...these are all things garcia has tons of and if mcnabb had them hed be a much better player...maybe the kind of player that could win it all or at least a couple nfc championships

Player A: average player who has a lot of heart, speaks out and is viewed as an underdog

Player B: very good player who has heart but doesn't show his emotions openly

I believe that most people in the city would take player A and I don't get it. Listen, I loved Buddy Ryan but its the same thing there. He was a coach who was deficient in a few areas but because he openly blasted Dallas and anyone else and had a brash attitude he is still revered to this day. But when you get to the nuts and bolts of it he was not a good HC. Great defensive coordinator though.

I do not believe that McNabb lacks confidence or has an issue with getting down when times are tough. The guy faced adversity since he was drafted here. He has never been embraced fully. He has also had to face that dope Limbaugh putting him out there like he did and also had to face the other dopey farger Modesire calling him out. McNabb has the will to win. He shows glimpses of emotion but not all the time. If he did not have the desire to not lose he wouldn't have stayed on the field to watch STL celebrate in 2001. If he did not have the desire to not lose he wouldn't play through some of the ailments that he has suffered. I think what you say about McNabb is totally off base, IMO.

[ice grillin you]

I believe that most people in the city would take player A and I don't get it.

you couldnt be more wrong...the people want a guy that can win a championship...if he had a personality and took the city under his wings  then the guy would be a legend in the city but thats a bonus...

best believe everyone would rather have mcnabb win a championship than be liked...however the problem is that mcnabbs attitude and personality very well may be the reason he cant win...


The guy faced adversity since he was drafted here

he has?

what true adversity has he faced?

a few fans booing him?

[Diomedes]

TO was a bona fide adversity.

[Quasimoto]

Phreak do you not think McNabb could benefit from being a little more open and fiery on the field?  I think that type of personality commands more respect than someone who gets a little mopey or is acting jovial during a tight game.  McNabb is a million times more talented than Garcia but I think Garcia has a better head for the game. I think McNabb could learn from the way Garcia ran the team.

[PhillyPhreak54]

I believe that most people in the city would take player A and I don't get it.

you couldnt be more wrong...the people want a guy that can win a championship...if he had a personality and took the city under his wings  then the guy would be a legend in the city but thats a bonus...

best believe everyone would rather have mcnabb win a championship than be liked...however the problem is that mcnabbs attitude and personality very well may be the reason he cant win...


The guy faced adversity since he was drafted here

he has?

what true adversity has he faced?

a few fans booing him?

So why then wouldn't the people want the more talented player? You know, the guy who has the skills to win and doesn't need the offense kind of pared down for him. Or a guy who can still get things done once a defense adjusts to him. Donovan can do that.

Its not always all on the QB as to why they didn't win. Give McNabb the commitment to the running game like they gave Garcia and see what happens. That is what I want to see. And the defense fixed. This QB thing is a non-issue, IMO. But its being made into one by people who don't like Donovan and it drives me nuts.

And it was more than just a few fans. They started it and represented more than just a small group. The mayor was calling for Williams for crying out loud. And he was never fully embraced here. LIke I said before, the Limbaugh stuff, the Mondesire stuff, people firing bottles at his head, people cheering as he's sprawled out on the turf after getting blasted. Come on IGY, you listen to WIP. You know what the consensus on there (and from the fans on there) is of him - its not good.

Going back to a Garcia point real quick...when he was in SF at the end, and in Cleveland and Detroit he wasn't exactly the same guy we're seeing now. He even said himself that he lost that fire and that drive and even thought about retiring because of it.

[ice grillin you]

TO was a bona fide adversity.

youre joking right

i guess we have different definitions of adversity...tony dungys son dying in the middle of the playoffs last year is adversity...having an idiot teammate is not

ill even go with something like choking in the superbowl or losing all those championship games as adversity (even if some of it was self inflicted)

but come on...mcnabb had be coddled from day one under reid...so much so that he really doesnt have to face anything...christ hes in his eighth year and still is not allowed to give his own press conference

id even argue that not only has mcnabb not faced adversity but hes been forced to face less adversity than most qb's

i mean look at what rex grossman went thru this year...that wasnt any less adverse of a time than mcnabb has faced

[Wingspan]

The guy faced adversity since he was drafted here

he has?

what true adversity has he faced?

a few fans booing him?

Booing on Draft Day
Rush Limbaugh
Terrell Owens
His own mother

He gets more vemon thrown his way than anyone i can remember.

Phreak do you not think McNabb could benefit from being a little more open and fiery on the field?  I think that type of personality commands more respect than someone who gets a little mopey or is acting jovial during a tight game.  McNabb is a million times more talented than Garcia but I think Garcia has a better head for the game. I think McNabb could learn from the way Garcia ran the team.

And in the end, what exactly did Garcia win?

[Quasimoto]

Garcia didn't win anything.  But he helped take them into the second round of the playoffs.  My point is that if that were McNabb in there doing the exact same things Garcia did and getting the exact same commitment to the run (which I will agree McNabb has never had that luxury in his career)  then we might be talking Super Bowl right now.

[ice grillin you]

Booing on Draft Day - again is this a joke?

Rush Limbaugh - not even close...there wasnt a person on the planet that agreed with that lunatic...the entire city was behind donovan on this one

Terrell Owens - the only aspect of this i will say that might have been tough (if it was true) is if half the locker room was against him...that def would fall under an adverse situation...then again hes done nothing to come back from that in fact it appears as if hes now upset at his teammates for supporting garcia (again if true)

His own mother - he agrees with his mother...supports what she said...so how is that adversity


again the guy has been sheltered more than most players...for him to play the poor me card is laughable

[PhillyPhreak54]

Phreak do you not think McNabb could benefit from being a little more open and fiery on the field?  I think that type of personality commands more respect than someone who gets a little mopey or is acting jovial during a tight game.  McNabb is a million times more talented than Garcia but I think Garcia has a better head for the game. I think McNabb could learn from the way Garcia ran the team.

I don't think it makes one ounce of difference either way. You can be great and be a fiery guy. You can be fiery and average. You can be great but reserved. You can be average and reserved. Everyone is different.

If any other player on that field needs to see someone else being hyped up in order o get himself hyped up then whats the matter with him? Why does he have to see someone else be like that? You should have that fire all on your own.

Like I said in my last post - was Garcia's "better head" helping him in DET or CLE? No. It was talent and the talent around him.

Reid could learn from the way he ran the ball with Garcia and do that with McNabb. That is the only education that must go on here, IMO. Give your superstar QB the same benefit of not dropping back 40 times a game. Brian Westbrook is a bona fide stud. Let him help McNabb.

And how do we know he was mopey? Because he sits down on the water cooler with a towel draped over his head? Marvin Harrison sits alone on the end of the bench. Peyton Manning had his head down on Sunday while sitting on the water cooler.

Everyone is different and expresses themselves differently. Being vocal and appeasing the viewers with antics doesn't mean jack to me. I look at what is done on the field.

I know if I was on that offense I would take comfort in the fact that with Donovan in there we have a chance to score on any play. I know that he leads by example. He goes out there and gets the job done.

[Quasimoto]

I don't think it should make a difference but I think players perceive it that way.   I don't disagree that you should get fired up on your own but truthfully we know that not everyone can.  Some people need to be a little more motivated than others. 

Does anyone remember the quote (I think it was either Stallworth or Brown?) who said that when Donovan was in there they didn't work as hard on their routes because they knew he could make something out of nothing.  That is somewhat telling to me.  They should be running their asses off on every play regardless of the QB. 

Now I don't think whoever said it meant anything by it as much as they were trying to compliment McNabb.  But still...

[PhillyPhreak54]

I don't think it should make a difference but I think players perceive it that way.   I don't disagree that you should get fired up on your own but truthfully we know that not everyone can.  Some people need to be a little more motivated than others. 

Does anyone remember the quote (I think it was either Stallworth or Brown?) who said that when Donovan was in there they didn't work as hard on their routes because they knew he could make something out of nothing.  That is somewhat telling to me.  They should be running their asses off on every play regardless of the QB. 

Now I don't think whoever said it meant anything by it as much as they were trying to compliment McNabb.  But still...

Yeah, I recall that. And I didn't like hearing that because to me it said they knew that if something broke down they would just wait for McNabb to bail the team out because he has done that so many times before. But it also said towards Jeff that they knew he was limited in what he can do so they had to concentrate more. Play hard all the time, guys/

[ice grillin you]

I don't think it should make a difference but I think players perceive it that way

its not perception

an incredible desire to not lose and a firey persona make champions out of a lot of people...sometimes its the difference between a larry bird and a doctor j...or a derek jeter and a alex rodriguez a tom brady and a donovan mcnabb

are there exceptions to the rule...is there tim duncans out there who are just better than everyone else...sure

but much more often than not a hatred of losing....a REFUSAL to lose...the ability to lead others...a take no prisoners attitude is what puts people over the top...often its the difference between winners and losers

its what made michael jordan the best athlete ever

[Quasimoto]

BTW, people who won't be on the roster next year:

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=64025

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

I'd kind of hoped we'd put the Greg Richmond shtein to bed by now.