06/07 Phillies Offseason Thread

[MDS]

After you give it to him in the ass.

[Rome]

Rowand is also a walking clusterfarg.

No, he isn't.  He's a serviceable major league baseball player in his 20's.

Regardless, Bell isn't even a Phillie any longer, so shut your face about him.

[Geowhizzer]

Burrell can hardly walk.

For what, three seasons going now?  The heel seems to be a continual problem - all the more reason to get rid of him.

That said, he'll probably break out for a .300/45/150 with his new team.  It's a Philly tradition. 

[PhillyPhreak54]

Stop being a panzy sabermatrician.

mp,

What are you, a frenchman? I wonder if you really believe half the shtein you write or if you're trying to be a contrarian.

You want Rowand gone and I just don't know why you hate the guy. Bell is not even comparable to him. So just stop. But to suggest putting Soriano in RF while keeping Burrell in LF is crazy shtein. Victorino would run himself silly covering all of that ground.

Who cares if Gillick gives Soriano the money? LIke MDS said - he knows that pitching reigns supreme. But he also knows that the hole behind Howard MUST be filled. And putting pedestrian players behind him ain't gonna do it. And he did sign slop last year but he really didn't have a choice because he was in his first year and wanted to see what he had within the organization and there also wasn't much out there to sign.

Soriano - Rowand - Victorino/Conine is the way to go in the OF.

[ice grillin you]

Rowand is average.  But so was Bell who was also pretty good defensively.  The glorification is of Rowand is disgusting

the rowand glorification ended in like august...no one has talked about him and no is talking about him at all...this glorification is all in your pea brain

oh and bell was an abortion at 3rd base...do you even watch the phillies?

[PhillyPhreak54]

Jim Salisbury | Lopes wants to stress Phils' need for speed
By Jim Salisbury
Inquirer Columnist

Seldom does the first-base coach get this much attention, but, hey, Davey Lopes is here to do more than pick up the helmets, and everyone knows it.

Part of the Phillies' beefed-up coaching staff, Lopes drew a crowd of reporters during a media gathering at Citizens Bank Park yesterday.

Lopes, who stole 557 bases during a stellar 16-year big-league career, comes to the Phils with the important assignment of improving the team's running game.

In Jimmy Rollins and Shane Victorino, Lopes already has two potential pupils scoped out. And if things go the Phillies' way, he could have one more.

"I'll try to push a few guys to be a little more aggressive on the base paths," said Lopes, who at 61 looks as if he could still swipe 30 bags, maybe more if Bruce Froemming were the umpire. "And if we get the other guy, I might have to contain him a little because sometimes he gets too aggressive."

The "other guy" is Alfonso Soriano, the power-speed combo outfielder who stands atop the Phillies' free-agent wish list.

Soriano belted 46 homers and swiped 41 bases for the Washington Nationals in 2006, and Lopes witnessed every one of them as the Nats' first-base coach.

"He has so many pluses, it's ridiculous," Lopes said of Soriano. "He'll strike out a lot, but on the right team, he'll put up a lot of numbers."

The Phillies would be the right team for Soriano. He drove in 95 runs hitting predominantly leadoff for Washington this season. With the Phils, he'd hit behind talents like Rollins, Chase Utley and Ryan Howard. He'd drive in a ton of runs hitting behind those guys, and he'd also make teams think twice about pitching around Howard.

Soriano, who'll turn 31 in January, comes with a steep price tag. Figure $15 million per year for at least six seasons to start. The Phils know the parameters and are planning a full-court press similar to the one they laid on Jim Thome in 2002.

The big difference between the courting of Thome and the pursuit of Soriano is the market. In 2002, the Phils competed with only one other team, the Indians, for Thome. This year, there is a huge demand for sluggers, and Soriano is coveted by several deep-pocketed teams, including the Angels, Dodgers, Astros and possibly the Cubs, depending on what happens with Aramis Ramirez.

As things look right now, the Mets aren't players for Soriano. That could bode well for the Phils because, according to Lopes and others who know Soriano, the slugger prefers the East Coast.

"He doesn't want to leave the East Coast, so this is the right location," Lopes said.

But Lopes cautioned, "He's going to go where he gets the best deal. Green talks. It's about how much money is thrown his way."

So, for the Phillies, it will come down to how badly they want Soriano, and how willing they are to sign the check.

Lopes thinks Soriano would be a great investment.

"This is a good team, good city, good park for him," Lopes said. "He's just an outstanding guy. Pound-for-pound, I've never seen anyone hit the ball farther. And he brings energy to the park. Every day, he comes in with a smile and is ready to play. He has the ability to elevate and pick up people."

Phillies management is hoping that Lopes elevates a few people on the base paths, namely Victorino and Rollins.

Lopes knows Victorino from their time together in the Padres' system. Victorino, a high-school sprint champ in Hawaii, attempted just seven stolen bases in 153 games in 2006.

"Victorino will run more," Lopes said. "If he doesn't, I'll be fired. He'll be more aggressive. He's got it in him."

Rollins was successful on 36 of 40 stolen-base attempts.

"To me, that's not a lot of attempts," said Lopes, who stole 47 bases at age 40 for the 1985 Cubs. (Most 40-year-olds would need a gun to pull off a heist like that.)

"I need to talk to Jimmy and see what his philosophy is, why he doesn't run more," Lopes added. "But from the outside looking in, you'd like to see him be more aggressive. I think it would make him a more exciting player, a superstar talent. If he utilizes his speed more, he could win games with his feet, not just his bat and glove. He has greatness written all over him."

While this is Lopes' first time wearing red pinstripes, he knows the organization well, having played, coached and managed against the Phillies since 1973. He, of course, was the Dodgers' second baseman when that team beat the Phils in the National League Championship Series in 1977 and 1978. In 1977, he scored the decisive run in the infamous Black Friday game after being ruled safe by Froemming on a disputed infield hit.

"I was safe," Lopes said, a little smile crossing his face yesterday.

The smile will be a lot bigger if Soriano becomes a Phillie.

[PhillyPhreak54]

A Time to Build
By Todd Zolecki
Inquirer Staff Writer

The fun starts Sunday.

That's the first time the Phillies can make offers to free agents like outfielder Alfonso Soriano. The Phillies could open with an offer of $80 million over five years, and are prepared to go higher to sign whomever they consider the top free agent on the market.

"We could use a little more depth in the middle of our lineup," Phillies general manager Pat Gillick said at a media luncheon yesterday at Citizens Bank Park.

Gillick never mentioned Soriano by name yesterday, but he sounded like a man who has the resources to make a legitimate pursuit.

"The market is what the market is," he said. "If the market was X last year and it's XX this year, then if you want to play you're going to have to pay XX. You can't ever be sure. But when you make these decisions, are you going to be in love with this guy a year from now as much as you're in love with him right now? That's a decision you're going to have to make. I don't know a lot of people that I want to be in love with for five years."

Gillick likely would have to remain in love with Soriano for at least five years to land him. And that's a lot of money.

Soriano, a five-time all-star, batted .277 with 46 homers, 95 RBIs and 41 steals last season with the Washington Nationals.

The Phillies have had a payroll in the $93 million range in recent seasons, but Phillies president David Montgomery said recently they could go a little higher if needed.

Gillick, who said a complete no-trade clause in any contract is a deal breaker for him (although he would go with a partial), echoed that sentiment.

"I think our ownership and CEO are pretty practical," Gillick said. "Anything we bring to them that makes sense, not only for the short term, but the long term, I don't think they'll be reluctant to make the move. But it has to make sense. If you have to make a commitment you have to figure that player is going to figure for you for whatever time you're obligated. If you have to give somebody four years and you only get three [years of production], that's one thing. But if you give somebody four years and you only get one, that's a different story."

The Phillies already have about $46 million committed to seven players next season: Pat Burrell, Jeff Conine, Tom Gordon, Jon Lieber, Jamie Moyer, Abraham Nuñez, Jimmy Rollins. They also owe Jim Thome $5.5 million. And then they have five players eligible for salary arbitration: Geoff Geary, Ryan Madson, Brett Myers, Aaron Rowand and Chase Utley.

But Gillick thinks the Phillies not only can land that big fish in left field, but re-sign Randy Wolf, complete the rotation, and rebuild the bullpen. The Phillies won't be going after any Japanese pitchers, third basemen or otherwise. But they will look at righthanders Joe Borowski, David Weathers and others to fortify the bullpen. Mark DeRosa or Wes Helms could spell trouble for Nuñez at third base.

"We've only got four-fifths of our rotation right now," Gillick said. "We've got to get another starter, and I don't see that starter coming out of our organization. It'll have to come from outside. We've got some things to attend to from the starting standpoint and from the bullpen standpoint."

Howe goes quickly. Art Howe lasted less than a month as the Phillies' third-base coach. He accepted a position yesterday as the Texas Rangers' bench coach. Howe will assist Rangers manager Ron Washington, who worked with Howe for seven years in Oakland.

The Phillies have Howe's replacement in mind, and could hire him shortly.

"He definitely was going to help our club," Manuel said of Howe.

Manuel on Burrell. It's no secret the Phillies would like to trade Burrell, but he's making $27 million over the next two seasons and has a complete no-trade clause.

"I haven't ruled out the fact that he's still on our club," Manuel said. "I've always stood with Pat."

Extra bases. Wolf is expected to test the free-agent market before he signs anywhere, but the Phillies remain optimistic he will return... . There is little chance free-agent outfielder David Dellucci will return. He is looking for more playing time... . The Phillies hired Charley Kerfeld as special assistant to the GM. He replaces Don Welke, who went to Texas.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Phillies hamstrung by Burrell's no-trade clause

By Jerry Crasnick
ESPN.com


PHILADELPHIA -- Phillies general manager Pat Gillick is quite nimble for a 69-year-old. Just think of all the hoops he jumped through before dealing Jim Thome and Bobby Abreu, high-profile players with big salaries and complete no-trade clauses.

This winter, Philadelphia fans will see whether Gillick can complete the hat trick with Pat Burrell, whose .222 average with runners in scoring position eclipsed his 29 homers and 95 RBI. It said a lot when manager Charlie Manuel batted 40-year-old Jeff Conine in the No. 5 spot in September to protect cleanup hitter Ryan Howard when the games mattered most.

Still, no matter how tiresome it gets watching Burrell wave at sliders, he might not be going anywhere. The Phillies say they expect Burrell to be more productive after a winter to rest his injured foot. He also has two years and $27 million left on his contract, and any trade partner probably would be asked to assume about half of it.

Finally, Burrell has a complete no-trade clause, and he has told the Phillies he has no interest in waiving it.

Did someone say "immovable object"?

"Pat wants to stay in Philly. He wants to play here. He's made that clear to us," Gillick said. "Our thought right now is that he'll be here. But if we get something on the table for any of our players that could improve the club, we'd have to take a look at it."

Gillick, who previously built winners in Toronto, Baltimore and Seattle, is no fan of blanket no-trade clauses. He's willing to bend in negotiations and let a player pick 6-8 clubs where he won't accept a trade without permission. Anything more liberal than that and Gillick feels hamstrung.

Some of his peers -- such as Boston's Theo Epstein and the Yankees' Brian Cashman -- sure know that feeling.

Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez, perennial All-Stars mentioned in recent trade speculation, are in a similar situation to Burrell's. Their contracts are big enough to exclude most clubs from the process, yet they have a right to dictate exactly where they want to go.

Gillick is so averse to giving out complete no-trade provisions that he says it could be a "deal breaker" when the Phillies negotiate with big free agents this winter. (Yes, that means you, Alfonso Soriano).

"Situations change," Gillick said. "Your club might be constituted differently from one year to the next, and anything that restricts your flexibility is a problem. If you have a player under contract and you're paying the sums we're paying now, I think clubs ought to have the freedom to trade that player."

Cherished right

Even before the advent of free agency, players understood the value of calling the shots. Baseball's 1973 labor agreement was the first to include the 10-and-5 rule, which gives players with 10 years of big-league service time and five with the same club the right to veto any trade.

In his book "Lords of the Realm," John Helyar writes that the pursuit of a no-trade clause was the driving force behind Andy Messersmith's decision to test the reserve clause by playing the entire 1975 season without a contract. Along with Dave McNally, Messersmith paved the way for free agency.

Agent Scott Boras estimates that 12-13 of his current clients have full no-trade clauses. That includes Carlos Beltran, who signed with the Mets, in part, because they agreed to such a provision when Houston would not.

"One of the real valued rights of free agency and being a star player is the club saying, 'We want you in our city, we want you on our team, and we're going to assure you that by giving you a no-trade clause,'" Boras said.

Given the history, it's only natural players want such an assurance in writing.

"Babe Ruth is a great example," Boras said. "He was pretty darned good, but he still got traded."

Through the years, players with limited no-trade clauses have learned to use them strategically to protect their interests. Pitchers traditionally crossed Colorado off their list, at least before the humidor. And a player who values winning is likely to steer clear of, say, Pittsburgh and Kansas City.

Phillies shortstop Jimmy Rollins submits a list each November of eight teams he won't accept a trade to without giving permission. A baseball source said it includes some teams with elite shortstops -- a way for Rollins to protect himself in case some contender wants to trade for him and shift him to second base.

Boras said star players often seek no-trade clauses because they don't want to deal with the trauma of uprooting their families every two or three years.

"This clause is the beacon for 'I love my family,'" Boras said. "The first question that wives ask me is, 'Can we get a no-trade clause?' They want certainty."

Team officials, naturally, see a different motivation.

"When you try to trade the guy someplace he says, 'Yeah, I'll waive my [no-trade clause], but I want X number of dollars,' " Gillick said. "It's a money grab."

Washington Nationals president Stan Kasten, who once ran three professional franchises in Atlanta, has steadfastly refused to give out no-trades. Six years ago, when the Braves lost out to Texas in their quest to sign Alex Rodriguez, Atlanta's unwillingness to include a no-trade provision was cited as a factor.

Kasten chuckles at that characterization. "We did wind up $126 million short of the total number," he said. "That might have been a factor as well."

But as Kasten points out, the Braves signed Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, Chipper Jones and Andruw Jones to long-term deals and lured Greg Maddux from Chicago without a no-trade clause. He has held the line with star players in basketball (Dominique Wilkins and Moses Malone) and hockey (Dany Heatley and Ilya Kovalchuk), too.

"I've seen too many cases where no-trade clauses resulted in real turmoil for a franchise," Kasten said. "I can negotiate away money, but I never felt comfortable negotiating away my ability to improve the team. That's something we need to hold on to as tenaciously as we can."

Gillick's challenge

In Philadelphia, former GM Ed Wade agreed to the contract restrictions that are now making Gillick's life so challenging. The Phillies had just traded third baseman Scott Rolen to St. Louis because they couldn't sign him to a long-term deal, and they needed to generate some good will with the fan base.

Abreu and Burrell weren't terrible investments, just not the players the Phillies decided they wanted to build around. When Gillick began shipping out veterans to turn over the team leadership to Chase Utley and Howard, he found the no-trade clauses hampered his mobility.

Thome told the Phillies he would be willing to waive his no-trade clause to go to two clubs -- the Indians or the White Sox -- before Gillick sent him to Chicago for Aaron Rowand last November. The Phillies focused on four clubs before trading Abreu to the Yankees, then had to kick in $1.5 million to get him to agree to the deal.

Although Gillick has been criticized for getting little in return for Abreu, he had almost no leverage.

"If the other club is aware a player will only go to certain places, it hurts you on what you can get back in return," Gillick said. "With contracts of that size, you can't talk to 29 other clubs. But you might be able to talk to, say, 10 clubs. That's a hell of a lot better than three or four. "

The Phillies were caught off guard last week by reports that Burrell might consider waiving his no-trade provision to go to San Francisco. Don't count on him winding up there. If the Giants re-sign Barry Bonds, Burrell would be out of luck in left field. And although there were rumblings that San Francisco might play Burrell at first base, the Phillies tried him there earlier in his career and he didn't exactly warm to the position.

Finally, the Phillies have received no indication that the Giants are interested. One club official said the clubs have had "zero" discussions about Burrell.

Burrell's agent, Greg Genske, didn't return calls seeking comment. But it's not difficult to envision places for which Burrell might be willing to waive his no-trade clause. Arizona, the California teams, Boston and the two New York clubs are about it. That's a finite universe of suitors.

Oddly enough, the worse things get in Philadelphia, the more receptive Burrell could become to a deal. If Phillies fans continue to boo him in the spring or his playing time diminishes, he might be more willing to consider other destinations.

Now for the bad news: That's the point at which Burrell's value would be lowest and the Phillies could get the least in return.

"The danger when you enter into a contract of that magnitude is that you're probably signing a guy at his peak time," an American League executive said. "Your emotions are high and he's coming off a great year, and you say, 'We're not going to move him anyway. Let's give him a no-trade.' Three years later, you have Pat Burrell."

At the moment, the Phillies still have Pat Burrell. How long they keep him could hinge on how open-minded he is and how inventive Gillick is. It's not as if the Phillies haven't been down this road before.

That quote by Boras about being traded being a trauma is laughable. Hey icehole, the millions of dollars that family has is enough to offset the fact that daddy has to spend 6 months away from the house. And it's not like the kids can't fly to see him.

Idiots. And farg Burrell and his never-to-be-healthy foot.

[Rome]

Ugh, another idiotic statement from Scott Boras.

Trauma is seeing your mother or father shipped out to Iraq.  Trauma is seeing your house repossessed because Mom & dad lost their shtein-paying jobs and can't afford it anymore.

Trauma is not seeing your father switch cities in order to play a kid's game for millions of dollars.  farging idiot.

And I agree about Patricia... if he were a horse, he would have been put down by now.

[MDS]

Trauma in the mpmcgraw house= sexbuddy and boyfriend Patricia Burrell being shipped out to San Fran or wherever.

[mpmcgraw]

Stop being a panzy sabermatrician.

mp,

What are you, a frenchman? I wonder if you really believe half the shtein you write or if you're trying to be a contrarian.

You want Rowand gone and I just don't know why you hate the guy. Bell is not even comparable to him. So just stop. But to suggest putting Soriano in RF while keeping Burrell in LF is crazy shtein. Victorino would run himself silly covering all of that ground.

Who cares if Gillick gives Soriano the money? LIke MDS said - he knows that pitching reigns supreme. But he also knows that the hole behind Howard MUST be filled. And putting pedestrian players behind him ain't gonna do it. And he did sign slop last year but he really didn't have a choice because he was in his first year and wanted to see what he had within the organization and there also wasn't much out there to sign.

Soriano - Rowand - Victorino/Conine is the way to go in the OF.

Rowand's OPS with Phils in 109 games= .745

Bell's OPS with Phils in 92 games= .743


Why I hate Rowand:

He only see's 3 pitches per at bat.

He is average.  Go to CBP and you would think he was Jessica Alba.

He is white

He never walks.

There was a better all around player at his position stuck on the bench because of Rowand's cult.

I am sure there are more, but that's all I have got off the top of my head.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Why I hate Burrell:

He only see's (sic) 3rd strikes.

He is average but paid like a star.

He is whiter than white.

He never walks, except to the dugout.

There was a better all around player at his position stuck on the bench because of his contract.

Right.

[ice grillin you]

ha

right

[PhillyPhreak54]

[mpmcgraw]

Didnt he make that catch?