Smoking ban in Philadelphia approved

[Sgt PSN]

Cool.  Just wanted to make sure all of my freedoms weren't being stripped away in one day. 


Plus, I wanted to help get this thread back on track. 

[Geowhizzer]

I'm a non-smoker and a non-drinker. but I still want to hang out in a bar.  I want alcohol banned from bars...

But seriously:

This seems to me like something that should have been solved in the marketplace.  Like IGY, I can't stand going to places that has smokers- I just hate the smell of smoke.  Whenever I encounter a place like that for more than a few minutes, I have to shower and completely change to get rid of the smell.  I don't believe it is in the people's interest for the government to impose universal standards on businesses.  I would never frequent a restaurant that reeks of smoke. but that isn't a reason for the government to step in.

Right now there are an estimated 48 million Americans who smoke.  That would be less than 20% of the American population, and about 25% of the adult population.  That would mean that there are over 140 million non-smoking adults.  I would say that the demand for a non-smoking bar would be enough that someone would try the concept without legislating that ALL bars become smoke-free.  The demand for smoke-free restaurants should be enough that many would be made that way without government interference.

Establishments (restaurants and bars) that wish to cater to smokers should be free to do so, with the understanding that they'll lose the business of many non-smokers that do not wish to be exposed to the stench of smoke, but they'll enjoy more business from thankful smokers that would have the freedom to light up.  Taverns that go smokeless would get more customers among non-smokers, but could also lose the business of smokers.  Eventually, either a balance would be reached, or the wishes of the customers would bear out through supply and demand, without the interference of the government.

[QB Eagles]

Also keep in mind that the real strength behind these bans are not protection of the public - as you say, the public can choose to go or not go.  The emphasis of these bans is typically a matter of workplace safety - the waitstaff & bartenders affected by the choices of the patrons.  There is extensive legal and worker relations history to show that "if you don't like it, work somewhere else" is not a valid answer to workplace safety issues.

I'd like to see that extensive history. I've known plenty of waiters and waitresses over the years and none of them were forced into it at gunpoint. The friends I've had who work in smoky bars were aware of the potential tradeoff between their lung health and their compensation for the job. There are plenty of jobs that unskilled people can do that don't require this tradeoff. Perhaps those jobs wouldn't pay as much, but that's the idea: combat pay is higher than regular soldier pay too. People are compensated more for higher risk jobs than lower risk jobs because there are a greater supply of workers willing to do lower risk jobs.

If someone doesn't want to be exposed to secondhand smoke, maybe they should look into careers other than bartender or waitress. I also know loads of people who managed to get through life somehow avoiding frequent occupational exposure to secondhand smoke; maybe the folks desperately trying to avoid the smoke can ask my friends how they did it.

It looks like just another step backward in the failed War on Some Drugs to this non-smoker.

[Sgt PSN]

Right now there are an estimated 48 million Americans who smoke. That would be less than 20% of the American population, and about 25% of the adult population. That would mean that there are over 140 million non-smoking adults. I would say that the demand for a non-smoking bar would be enough that someone would try the concept without legislating that ALL bars become smoke-free. The demand for smoke-free restaurants should be enough that many would be made that way without government interference.

Establishments (restaurants and bars) that wish to cater to smokers should be free to do so, with the understanding that they'll lose the business of many non-smokers that do not wish to be exposed to the stench of smoke, but they'll enjoy more business from thankful smokers that would have the freedom to light up. Taverns that go smokeless would get more customers among non-smokers, but could also lose the business of smokers. Eventually, either a balance would be reached, or the wishes of the customers would bear out through supply and demand, without the interference of the government.

Good stuff man.  I like the idea.  And if something like that were to happen, I still think both smoking and non-smoking establishments would still see a fair share of business from the other "demographic". 

If I go out with my usual group of friends, we're about split down the middle with smokers and non-smokers.  I know that my non smoking friends don't like the smokey atmosphere in some bars and clubs but they deal with it.  Now, if we had our choice between a smokey bar and a non smokey bar, I would have no problem going to spend a few hours in their health bar and then a few in my cancer pit.  Or even going out one night to a bar of their choice and then we all go to a bar of my choice the next night.  Whatever. 

So I really don't think that either type of bar/resturant would see a dramatic change in business because even though non smokers out number smokers about 3 to 1, damn near every non smoker out there has a friend who smokes and at some point or another, they'll go hang out in a smokey bar with their smoking friends who were nice enough to hang out with them in a non smoking place.   

[Cerevant]

I'd like to see that extensive history. I've known plenty of waiters and waitresses over the years and none of them were forced into it at gunpoint.

You miss my point - there is extensive history of other hazardous substances, dangerous machinery, etc. being banned/controlled for the purposes of workplace safety.  This is just a new example.

[Tomahawk]

Let the mofos wear oxygen masks.

[mussa]

this is truly a crock of shtein and can only lead to worse restrictions. what will the lawyers think of next? here's a thought, leave it up to the damn business owners. i don't like smoke either, even though i do it. vehicles and everything that comes with it produce more harm to humanity than cigarettes. you don't see law makers passing mandatory laws for cleaner vehicles or alternative fuels do you? whats more important a select few people or the entire world? cut me a break.

[JTrotter Fan]

Fargin smoker crybabies...get over yourselves.  Noone wants your lung disease and early death.

[ice grillin you]

vehicles and everything that comes with it produce more harm to humanity than cigarettes

NO

[SD_Eagle5]

vehicles and everything that comes with it produce more harm to humanity than cigarettes

NO

Maybe if you were stuck in a bar or restaurant with a running car they are.

Also, vehicles are a necessity, smoking isn't.

[Wingspan]

i love it, people want healthy smoke free bars and restaurants so they can drink their livers to hell and stuff their face with a baked potato with extra sour cream.

[SD_Eagle5]

i love it, people want healthy smoke free bars and restaurants so they can drink their livers to hell and stuff their face with a baked potato with extra sour cream.

Its also their choice to do so, nobody is shoving food or drinks down their throats. 'People' have no choice but to breath smoke in when they're in a bar.

[Wingspan]

i love it, people want healthy smoke free bars and restaurants so they can drink their livers to hell and stuff their face with a baked potato with extra sour cream.

Its also their choice to do so, nobody is shoving food or drinks down their throats. 'People' have no choice but to breath smoke in when they're in a bar.

yeah i know. who wants to be inconvienced while downing tequilla shots while drinking vodka's and red bull. it's a travesty. a crying shame. their overdosing on cologne is something i would rather not smell either. can we ban that?

[Diomedes]

This thread makes me want to start smoking again. 

[Sgt PSN]

i love it, people want healthy smoke free bars and restaurants so they can drink their livers to hell and stuff their face with a baked potato with extra sour cream.

Its also their choice to do so, nobody is shoving food or drinks down their throats. 'People' have no choice but to breath smoke in when they're in a bar.

Sure they do.  They could stop breathing.  Problem(s) solved.