HOF finalists announced

[ice grillin you]

moons nfl stats alone get him in...theres some players whos numbers supercede everything else and hes one of them...

[PhillyPhreak54]

Moon also only played 4 years in the R&S offense.

Peter King made a good argument for him. Fouts got in and Moon has better yards, TDs and playoff record.

[henchmanUK]

Send him here then!

[EJ72]

Dan Fouts got in largely on his numbers. Never won a title, and he didn't do much before Air Coryell came to town.

DF under Tommy Prothro:

San Diego quarterback Dan Fouts.

DF under Don Coryell:

San Diego quarterback DAN FOUTS.

[ice grillin you]

why would he be punished for the run n shoot??...thats ridiculous...at least it had the word run in it...miami was shoot and shoot...that was their 'system'...a system that let marino throw all the time...just cause it didnt have a fancy nickname doesnt mean its any different...the eagles currently imploy a run n shoot...but because reid is in that gay group of bill walsh homosexual diciples its instead referred to as the more prestigious west coast offense


plus at the time everyone was saying how you couldnt win with a run n shoot offense...kinda funny how now people are flipping the script and saying moon couldnt win with a run n shoot offense

[henchmanUK]

why would he be punished for the run n shoot??...thats ridiculous...at least it had the word run in it...miami was shoot and shoot...that was their 'system'...a system that let marino throw all the time

Again, Marino threw all the time because he was good and they had zesty running backs, not because of the system. Shula was never afraid to run the ball, but didn't with Marino because he had a great quarterback and zesty running backs.

[MadMarchHare]

Then why'd Aikman make it?  Talk about a system QB.

[rjs246]

Again, Marino threw all the time because he was good and they had zesty running backs, not because of the system. Shula was never afraid to run the ball, but didn't with Marino because he had a great quarterback and zesty running backs.

Are you arguing that they passed all the time rather than playing solid-well rounded offense because of a single player. That they ignored the running game, not because of the coach, but because of the QB? That's a crock of shtein.

[QB Eagles]

Moon is easily a HOF QB, and his career was far more impressive than that of Randall Cunningham.

Arguing that he was the product of the Oilers system is simply idiotic, as he passed for over 4200 yards his first two seasons with the Vikings. One of those seasons alongside a 1,000-yard rusher.

Warren Moon is one of the all-time great quarterbacks.

[henchmanUK]

Again, Marino threw all the time because he was good and they had zesty running backs, not because of the system. Shula was never afraid to run the ball, but didn't with Marino because he had a great quarterback and zesty running backs.

Are you arguing that they passed all the time rather than playing solid-well rounded offense because of a single player. That they ignored the running game, not because of the coach, but because of the QB? That's a crock of shtein.

Whose hands would you rather have the ball in? Dan Marino or Lorenzo Hampton and Sammie Smith?

[Feva]

I don't recall any HOF's lining up behind Moon either.

[henchmanUK]

I don't recall any HOF's lining up behind Moon either.
[/quote

Not an HOFer, but I'd take Mike Rozier over any Miami RB in the Marino era. Not saying Moon wasn't a very good QB, just not HOF, IMO.

[ice grillin you]

if moon isnt a hall of famer...then unless you win a championship no qb ever makes it again....simple as that

[Feva]

I don't recall any HOF's lining up behind Moon either.
[/quote

Not an HOFer, but I'd take Mike Rozier over any Miami RB in the Marino era. Not saying Moon wasn't a very good QB, just not HOF, IMO.

He threw for 50,000 NFL yards man, more than 70,000 when you factor in the CFL numbers... and like Phreak pointed out, only 4 years in the Run & Shoot where he "padded his stats".

- 17 years in the NFL.
- 9 time pro bowler.
- Threw for over 4,000 yds 4 times. (including his last full season)

So he wasn't fortunate enough to play in a Super Bowl.  So what?  He won the Grey Cup every year he played in the CFL except one.

[Fan_Since_64]

Been meaning to get back to this discussion, because some interesting points have been made. I also took a look at the message board at the Pro Football Researcher Association site, and pretty much the same battles are being fought. I think the debate over who is a Hall of Famer and who isn't will never end because we all have our own criteria. But what is that criteria? It's easy to say "well, a Hall of Famer should have been a great player" but obviously, but how do we make that determination? I would suggest that there are three main criteria to look at:

Outstanding performance - Was the player clearly considered among the best at his position during at least a significant portion of his career? Did he get selected to All-Pro teams and Pro Bowls? If applicable, did he put up impressive statistics relative to the era he played in?

Key component of a winning team - Did the player play for a team that won at least one championship and/or contended regularly, and was he a key contributor to that team?

Significant career - Did the player have an impact on how the game is played? Was there a uniqueness to his career that makes it significant even if the other two criteria are questionable?

Obviously, many Hall of Famers fit more than one category - which certainly helps their case! Certain players, like Sammy Baugh, Don Hutson, and Jim Brown could arguably be put in all three categories. It also helps players like Jim Ringo, who was clearly considered to be one of the premier centers in the NFL before Vince Lombardi came along to build the Packers into a championship team, and Walter Payton, who was one of the top running backs in the NFL long before the Bears were Super Bowl ready.

Warren Moon, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts didn't win any championships (and some earlier HOF QBs didn't either, such as Y.A. Tittle and Sonny Jurgensen - unless you want to count his benchwarming for Norm Van Brocklin in 1960 as playing for a championship team  ). They were recognized as among the elite at their position and certainly helped the teams that they played for achieve as much as they did - for instance, the Dolphins may not have won any Super Bowls with Marino at QB, but they regularly contended, and does anyone think they would have done as well if they'd decided to stick with David Woodley as the starting QB throughout the 80s instead of drafting Marino? Dan Fouts had a terrible supporting cast in his first few seasons, but I don't think Don Coryell minded having him - and his rocket arm, and toughness - around to make his downfield passing game work.

Troy Aikman probably falls closer to the second category - key component of a team that won championships. I always thought of him as a technician rather than a QB who could lift a team (ala Staubach). He rarely received All-Pro honors (although he did get selected to several Pro Bowls) and in fact typically lost out in that regard to his rival Steve Young - who fits into the first two categories quite nicely and was elected to the HOF without controversy last year.

If Randall Cunningham makes it - and it's a big if, in my mind - it will be primarily due to his fit in the third category. I predict a lot of debate!