Phillies Offseason Talk

[Geowhizzer]

I'm thinking Michaels.

[Exit31]

apparantley wagner wasnt too happy about thome being traded.

Who cares. It seems Wagner was never happen in Philly to begin with. I hope the Phils don't overpay for him.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Cop Killa = Jason Michaels.

He likes to fight the po's when he's drunk.

[SD_Eagle5]

Cop Killa = Jason Michaels.

He likes to fight the po's when he's drunk.

Well who doesn't 

[MDS]

michaels is a goner. utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.

[SD_Eagle5]

utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.

Right here dude 

[Geowhizzer]

utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.

Right here dude 

[Rome]

michaels is a goner. utley and burrell will have find someone new to hang out with and pick up bimbo's at the clubs.

There's always IGY...

[Sgt PSN]

IGY doesn't pick up bimbos, he picks up bitches.  And he doesn't go to the bars either.

You can find him in da club, bottle full of bub
Look mami I got the X if you into taking drugs
I'm into having sex, I ain't into making love
So come give me a hug if you into to getting rubbed

[Rome]

Posted on Fri, Nov. 25, 2005

Appealing and dealing

Thome trade could be good for both teams

By PAUL HAGEN

hagenp@phillynews.com


JIM THOME will have a big year for the White Sox.

Wanna bet?

If Thome - just 3 years ago the honored guest at Philadelphia's baseball banquet, now seemingly regarded by the same fans as the picked-over turkey carcass the day after Thanksgiving - doesn't hit at least 35 home runs next season, I'll eat this page on the steps of City Hall.

In fact, it wouldn't be a surprise if he doesn't put up bigger numbers than Ryan Howard, the 2005 National League Rookie of the Year whose emergence forced the Phillies to make a move that otherwise would have been almost unthinkable: Thome and $22 million to the White Sox for centerfielder Aaron Rowand and two well-regarded pitching prospects.

The tentative deal, announced Wednesday, is subject to both players passing physicals and approval from the commissioner's office.

The White Sox made a heckuva trade. Howard showed immense promise last year when back and elbow injuries sidelined Thome, batting .288 with 22 homers and 63 RBI in just 88 games.

Thome, however, is a proven difference-maker. And the White Sox, essentially, picked him up for half-price.

It also remains to be seen how free-agent closer Billy Wagner, who is being wooed by the Mets and Phillies, will view a transaction that became public on the same day that the Mets let it be known they have reached a conditional deal to acquire slugging first baseman Carlos Delgado from the Marlins.

All that said, it's hard not to view new Phillies general manager Pat Gillick as a baseball Houdini in all this, miraculously escaping a locked steamer trunk that was wrapped in chains and placed in the middle of the Schuykill Expressway during rush hour.

They said it couldn't be done.

They said the Phillies wouldn't be able to trade Thome because he's 35 years old and coming off an injury-plagued season and due at least $46 million the next 3 years.

Certainly not without eating most of the remaining contract. Certainly not before spring training, after interested clubs had a chance to see him swing following elbow surgery that ended his season. And, most certainly, they would get nothing of value in return.

Well...

White Sox general manager Kenny Williams said it best during the season when he pointed out to a reporter that he couldn't have gotten Scott Podsednik or Jose Uribe if they had been coming off their best seasons. "Their teams would have been a lot more desperate to keep them," he explained.

The Phillies paid $22 million to the White Sox, and that's a lot of money to shell out for a guy to hit homers for another team. Don't forget, though, that they also saved $24 million.

This got done before the winter meetings even started. That gives Gillick a better idea of how much money he has to spend the rest of the winter and also erased an issue that would have hung like a toxic smog over this team until it was resolved.

And the Phillies got significant talent in return. Rowand is the sort of pedal-to-the-metal ballplayer who should not only be popular in Philadelphia but will add a bit of grit to the clubhouse.

The two lefthanders who reportedly will be coming to the Phillies, Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood, were poised to be named among the White Sox' top pitching prospects by Baseball America.

And, don't forget, Gillick had to find a destination that Thome, who has a complete no-trade clause, would be willing to go. Thome wanted a place where he would be comfortable and a team that had a chance to win. Chicago is close to Thome's Peoria, Ill., boyhood home and his current offseason hunting preserve. And the White Sox are the defending world champions.

So Gillick did pretty doggone well for a guy who wasn't exactly bargaining from a position of strength.

It's clear that he had no choice. He had to trade one of his two lefthanded, power-hitting first basemen. And, realistically, it had to be Thome who was sent packing.

But don't forget that Howard is still, to some extent, an unproven commodity. Jerome Walton, Todd Hollandsworth and Scott Williamson have been NL Rookies of the Year in the last two decades. In that same span, Ben Grieve, Bob Hamelin and Marty Cordova were similarly honored in the American League.

Bruce Ruffin was hailed as the next Steve Carlton when he showed up in Clearwater for spring training in 1987.

He only came up 269 career wins and one Hall of Fame plaque short.

In short, there are no guarantees.

It's not hard to imagine Howard helping the Phillies make it to the playoffs one of these days.

It's even easier to imagine Thome doing it for the White Sox in 2006.

Does anyone else get terribly confused whenever you read one of Paul Hagen's columns?   

After reading this, I can't figure out whether he thinks the Thome trade was good for the Phillies or disasterous.

I think the Phillies did what they had to.  They found a team who was willing to pay nearly half of Thome's contract and that's a miracle in itself.  Add to the fact that they addressed a glaring need in center and got not one but TWO highly regarded pitching prospects in return... well, I can't see how Gillick could have done much better.

Am I wrong here or is Hagen deliberately playing devil's advocate where doing so isn't warranted?

[Geowhizzer]

Dayn Perry (foxsports.com) thinks Phillies got better end of Thome trade

Granted, Dayn Perry's an idiot...

[Rome]

Dayn Perry (foxsports.com) thinks Phillies got better end of Thome trade

Granted, Dayn Perry's an idiot...

Idiot or not, at least he didn't straddle the fence like Hagen while writing his column.

[Geowhizzer]

Like I said, Thome pretty much had to go.  Do you bench the reigning ROY, or do you bench a $15M/year player with over 400 career HRs?  That would be a no-win situation, and neither can play another position.

As it was, Gillick made a pretty good deal with the limitations he had (Thome's FNTC, salary, and coming off a poor, injury-plagued season at age 34) in getting Rowand and two good pitching prospects, and parting with only $22M.  I actually though teams would demand more $$$ for Thome.

[SunMo]

Wagner: It's a 'one-horse race'

that's the headline but I can't read the article due to work filters.  If anybody would be so kind as to post the article, I would appreciate it.

[MDS]

hagen sucks and has always sucked