Unreal...are these farging guys serious?
From Mosley's blog:
QuoteA pool reporter asked referee Carl Cheffers and back judge Todd Prukop for a clarification following the game, and that's when things really got interesting. They both agreed that the penalty was actually on Coleman, who sounded stunned about the ruling when reporters showed up at his locker.
Since Collie appeared to have possession of the ball before the hit caused it to pop out, Cheffers was asked to define "defenseless receiver."
"Well, if he is completing the catch, his second foot is not down yet or it's just down, we still give the defenseless receiver protection. So if it is a bang-bang type play, with his second foot coming down, he still gets protection on that play. The fact of the matter is, is that ball was incomplete. So, he has protection throughout that entire process on that play because we don't even have a completion -- at no time did he have possession and become a runner to where he would have transitioned out of being a defenseless receiver."
Well, that really clears things up. Asked what Coleman did to deserve a penalty, Prukop chimed in, "So, he makes contact with the shoulder to the back of the helmet of the receiver."
If you've watched a replay, you know that's flat-out wrong. Coleman never used his shoulder to hit Collie in the back of the helmet. Eagles coach Andy Reid was very careful with his words following the game because he wanted to avoid a fine for criticizing the officials.
That call was baaaad, and making excuses for it makes it even worse, friggen' dickhead.
we were losing our minds in our seats...incredibly awful call
I'm a lot less angry than I was yesterday but hearing and reading the NFL's explanations for what occurred yesterday is just painful. I'm embarrassed for them, actually.
Oh, and by the way... you guys SHOWED UP yesterday. Damn it was loud even on tee vee.
Well, that's a load of shtein. I hope Coleman doesn't get a James Harrison like fine, since that would be about 15% of his annual gross salary.
the "defenseless" part of it was what enraged me the most. how the farg was he defenseless WITH THE fargING BALL IN HIS HANDS?
Quoteat no time did he have possession and become a runner to where he would have transitioned out of being a defenseless receiver."
Here's my favorite part of their explanation. This is where the NFL is lying through their teeth. He DID have possession but because of a jarring hit it was knocked loose. I'm glad the national idiots are getting this one and the Cole grazing Mannings helmet ones right. What's really sad is even without those two awful calls - which kept the Colts in the game - the refs were still awful. The 'running into the punter' call was terrible, thankfully it didn't lead to a 1st down. The call on Dmitri Patterson where Reggie Wayne runs into him...just terrible. I lost track of how many 3rd down penalties lead to Colts 1st downs, but I think it was something like 6.
I really hope the league steps up and says they farged up the meaning of both calls. Isnt this the crew that the head ump couldnt get his words out a few weeks back explaining a call?
yeah that officiating was the worst i remember seeing in recent memory. i also have no voice today.
Awful. I walked away pissed off, even with the win.
Come on we all watched the replay Coleman did go helmet to helmet by accident yesterday it wasn't intentional he hit mostly with the shoulder but at that speed yeah it knocked Collie out. Killa's penalty was the worst of the game, terrible. It was one of the most frustrating games to watch because you know Peyton can take it down the field at anytime and we gave him the ball with time to kick and win it. Thank god Peyton sucked it up yesterday...
The Collie play still looks clean to me and should have been a fumble. Refs overreacted to a guy getting knocked out
Quote from: Tomahawk on November 08, 2010, 10:41:16 AM
The Collie play still looks clean to me and should have been a fumble. Refs overreacted to a guy getting knocked out
This is exactly what happened.
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/football/nfl/11/07/colts.collie.concussion.ap/austin-collie-ap.jpg)
Ball in control...check. Two feet down...check. Looks like possession to me. Don't recall Collie getting hit helmet to helmet, but don't have a good video handy. Photo is from SI's site, they are saying the same line as the league so far.
The helmet to helmet happened immediately after that snapshot. Mikell's hit forced Collie's and Coleman's heads to collide. But since he is already a runner, and not a prone receiver, it's legal.
I'm more mad about the Eagles getting cheated out of a fumble recovery than anything
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/17557/collie-hit-was-clean-say-two-colts-dbs
A couple of Colts' db's think it was clean too.
Quote"No, it didn't look like intent," said Aaron Francisco, who has started at free safety for Indianapolis since both Bob Sanders and Melvin Bullitt got hurt. "When a player gets hit by two guys, not really simultaneously but one after another, it's kind of hard as a defensive back to keep your head out of the way. That guy is getting hit towards you, you don't know where his head is going to be or whatever.
They have so many rules out there, it's tough to be a hitter nowadays, you know what I mean?"
Said cornerback Jacob Lacey: "It was a football play, it looked like a clean hit. You don't wish that on anybody, or want anybody to be hurt or anything like that. But it looked like a clean hit. The first guy kind of gave him that momentum to swing into the other guy."
Quote from: SunMo on November 08, 2010, 07:28:20 AM
we were losing our minds in our seats...
Oh farg yea..I dont think my guys and I were as vocal as we were yesterday since TO's return.
that officiating crew is lucky the eagles won yesterday. they might have not made it out of the stadium if the colts had come back and won.
Mikey Miss is shockingly saying hits like this need to be eliminated, and its all for ratings because thats his game. They had a clip from the Colts broadcasters, and the main announcer's vadge leaked thru the radio.
SD, share that thing if you can find it. IGY would love it
As bad as the officiating was, the refs didn't make the Eagles defense part like the red sea when James walked untouched into the end zone from 7 yards out. Yeah, the refs made some horrible calls yesterday. Boo-hoo, shtein happens. The real problem that's been highlighted here is that the refs are going to err on the side of caution. The swipe of Manning's head is horrible, but I can't fault the refs for making the call because the rule says that anytime the QB gets contact to the head it's a penalty. There's no grey area with the rule and there's no room for interpritation because the league wants it to be consistant. And one thing that fans never ever think about is the fact that these refs get critiqued after every game, not only for the (bad) calls that they make, but also the calls that they don't make. I guarantee that if he doesn't throw the flag on that play that it's going to reflect on that ref's grade for the season....which could affect his abilty to work postseason games.
The officiating has been bad this year (it seems like) around the entire league. I don't know if it's because of some of the new(er) changes that are being made or if it's just a fluke year or what, but I'm pretty much done with bitching about the refs once the game is over. Sure, I still have the knee jerk reaction during the game but after a couple hours, I really couldn't give a damn.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 08, 2010, 03:53:29 PM
As bad as the officiating was, the refs didn't make the Eagles defense part like the red sea when James walked untouched into the end zone from 7 yards out. Yeah, the refs made some horrible calls yesterday. Boo-hoo, shtein happens. The real problem that's been highlighted here is that the refs are going to err on the side of caution. The swipe of Manning's head is horrible, but I can't fault the refs for making the call because the rule says that anytime the QB gets contact to the head it's a penalty. There's no grey area with the rule and there's no room for interpritation because the league wants it to be consistant. And one thing that fans never ever think about is the fact that these refs get critiqued after every game, not only for the (bad) calls that they make, but also the calls that they don't make. I guarantee that if he doesn't throw the flag on that play that it's going to reflect on that ref's grade for the season....which could affect his abilty to work postseason games.
The officiating has been bad this year (it seems like) around the entire league. I don't know if it's because of some of the new(er) changes that are being made or if it's just a fluke year or what, but I'm pretty much done with bitching about the refs once the game is over. Sure, I still have the knee jerk reaction during the game but after a couple hours, I really couldn't give a damn.
Is Jonny Marks licking your sack while you type that?
I agree with the anti-ref-bitching once the game is over though.
Who is that?
Why, want to check to see if it's the guy licking your sack?
Exactly. I don't know who this dude is but he won't stop gargling long enough to identify himself.
Google isn't even giving me anything.
"Jonny Marks" gives me a MySpace Music profile, Facebook profile and a regular MySpace profile.
Redirected to "Johnny Marks" who was a (Jewish) song writer who specialized in Christmas Songs (mock) and died in 1985.
Quote from: NC_Eagle on November 08, 2010, 11:45:22 AM
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/football/nfl/11/07/colts.collie.concussion.ap/austin-collie-ap.jpg)
Ball in control...check. Two feet down...check. Looks like possession to me. Don't recall Collie getting hit helmet to helmet, but don't have a good video handy. Photo is from SI's site, they are saying the same line as the league so far.
How in the hell is this considered defenseless? Two feet down, he's moving forward, he's even bracing for the hit! And yes it should have been a fumble.
Agreed Rome, if the Colts had come back and won last night those refs would have been killed.
Sarge,
Johnny Marks is on 97.5 in Philadelphia. Local ESPN radio affiliate.
Quote from: Don Ho on November 08, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
Sarge,
Johnny Marks is on 97.5 in Philadelphia. Local ESPN radio affiliate.
Never heard of him. Then again, I usually catch a little bit of Vai and Gonzo on my way to work and then if I'm able too, I'll listen to Mikey Miss at my desk....although for the most part, it's just background noise and I'm rarely ever paying attention.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 08, 2010, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: Don Ho on November 08, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
Sarge,
Johnny Marks is on 97.5 in Philadelphia. Local ESPN radio affiliate.
Never heard of him. Then again, I usually catch a little bit of Vai and Gonzo on my way to work and then if I'm able too, I'll listen to Mikey Miss at my desk....although for the most part, it's just background noise and I'm rarely ever paying attention.
Jon Marks is Mikey Miss's producer, he's that other voice you hear when the show is on. Jon Marks is probably the coolest guy that works for the station.
Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on November 08, 2010, 03:46:01 PM
Mikey Miss is shockingly saying hits like this need to be eliminated, and its all for ratings because thats his game. They had a clip from the Colts broadcasters, and the main announcer's vadge leaked thru the radio.
SD, share that thing if you can find it. IGY would love it
Not in until Thursday
Quote from: SD on November 08, 2010, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 08, 2010, 04:19:18 PM
Quote from: Don Ho on November 08, 2010, 04:16:15 PM
Sarge,
Johnny Marks is on 97.5 in Philadelphia. Local ESPN radio affiliate.
Never heard of him. Then again, I usually catch a little bit of Vai and Gonzo on my way to work and then if I'm able too, I'll listen to Mikey Miss at my desk....although for the most part, it's just background noise and I'm rarely ever paying attention.
Jon Marks is Mikey Miss's producer, he's that other voice you hear when the show is on. Jon Marks is probably the coolest guy that works for the station.
Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on November 08, 2010, 03:46:01 PM
Mikey Miss is shockingly saying hits like this need to be eliminated, and its all for ratings because thats his game. They had a clip from the Colts broadcasters, and the main announcer's vadge leaked thru the radio.
SD, share that thing if you can find it. IGY would love it
Not in until Thursday
Sometimes it seems like he just wants to choke Mikey Miss out. You can hear him laughing in disagreement but he knows if he says anything, Miss is just going to out-whine him on the topic.
I used to like Mikey Miss but the more I listen to him, the more he reminds me of some sort of lovechild between Cataldi and IGY. Hyperbolic, saying shtein for the ratings, etc.
QuoteBecause Collie's helmet-to-helmet contact was a result of being driven toward a defender from a prior hit, there's no fine for this action
Re: Coleman
That's good news for Coleman. Don't know how much he makes, but I bet 50g means much more to him than James Harrison
However, it is still a penalty even though no one did anything wrong.
Quote"Because the helmet-to-helmet contact was a result of Collie being driven toward Coleman by Mikell's legal hit, there will be no fine for this action. Though there will be no fine issues for this instance, the play was properly officiated. Officials have been instructed to err on the side of the player safety, and when in doubt, will penalize in situations such as this for unnecessary roughness."
so basically...."He might be hurt. Flag!"
The thing I'm most pissed about with this deal, is that the Eagles got screwed out of a fumble recovery because the refs overreacted to a hit. He'd caught the ball, taken two steps and was getting low 'cause he knew he was gonna' get hit, and fumbled. That would have made a big difference in the games flow, final score had the Eagles coverted the turnover into a TD. Instead the refs almost ended up giving the game to the Colts on a silver platter. That shocks me. The refs tried to give it away and the Colts still couldn't take advantage of it.
Add Bill Plaschke to the funhole parade; he thought it was dirty and Coleman should be suspended.
Mike Pereria was on with Russi on Sirius and said he found no fault in the hit whatsoever but the officials are worried because they were told in the huge conference call a couple weeks ago that the league, players and agents were hitching about plays that were being fined and not flagged. So essentially it's a flag first and worry about it later thing.
who the farg is bill plaschke and why should i give a shtein what he says?
Around The Horn talking head from LA.
By far the guy I disagree with the most on that show.
Yeah, Plaschke's a tool. Farg him.
Quote from: BigEd76 on November 08, 2010, 04:46:15 PM
Quote"Because the helmet-to-helmet contact was a result of Collie being driven toward Coleman by Mikell's legal hit, there will be no fine for this action. Though there will be no fine issues for this instance, the play was properly officiated. Officials have been instructed to err on the side of the player safety, and when in doubt, will penalize in situations such as this for unnecessary roughness."
so basically...."He might be hurt. Flag!"
This is the thing that bothers me.......the refs are being instructed by the league to err on the side of caution, which tells me a couple of things:
1. The league is more concerned about their image in regards to head truama, ALS, etc, etc than they are with the actual product on the field. I'm all for player safety and I'm fine if they want to make some rule changes to help reduce/eliminate the number of head, neck and spinal injuries. At the same time though, they have to find a way to do that without putting their game officials in a position to make flimsy calls. Which leads to.....
2. The refs are going to make a lot more "questionable" calls because they are trying to cover their own ass in terms of performance reviews and job security......which I don't blame them for one bit. I'm not defending the refs because they make plenty of bad calls and miss plenty of calls during a game, but I'm not going to persecute them for the Coleman hit or the Cole swipe either because they were pretty much following league protocol.
all the head contact talk happened after the game. the initial call was "defenseless receiver" which is one of the all time bad calls.
Quote from: shorebird on November 08, 2010, 04:48:54 PM
The thing I'm most pissed about with this deal, is that the Eagles got screwed out of a fumble recovery because the refs overreacted to a hit. He'd caught the ball, taken two steps and was getting low 'cause he knew he was gonna' get hit, and fumbled. That would have made a big difference in the games flow, final score had the Eagles coverted the turnover into a TD. Instead the refs almost ended up giving the game to the Colts on a silver platter. That shocks me. The refs tried to give it away and the Colts still couldn't take advantage of it.
So you're saying you had money on the game and are pissed the Eagles didn't cover?
if they want to end helmet to helmet contact just remove the helmets. problem solved.
it would not make the game any less violent either...it would still be football
I'm all for it
Plus, NFL players would finally have to stop bitching about a lack of endorsement deals and celebrity status because their faces are obstructed by facemasks and they are unrecognizable to the public. Of course, I'm not sure how recognizable they'd be with shoe prints on their faces, but, whatever.
three pages after the fact on a bad call in a game the eagles won?
really?
that was probably the worst officiated game i ever saw i my life.
that said, the eagles won inspite of the horrible calls and lousy redzone performances in the beginning of the game which impressed me because that is a game the eagles lose if mcbenched is still the QB.
Not going to read this whole thread, but my whole thinking on that call was that there was no intent there. But it infuriated me at the time that it was called when Vick getting ridden out of bounds and driven to the ground well over the line was not.
I give the NFL a lot of credit for not fining anyone on the play, though.
I think the reason that the refs didn't throw a flag on that Vick play is because it was like the play right before that, or maybe 2 plays before, that the Eagles were the beneficiaries of a pretty flimsy call that went against the Colts. So they kept the hanky in their pocket and I'm ok with that.
yeah, and they kept those flags in their pockets when the game was on the line too
Quote from: Sgt PSN on November 09, 2010, 11:39:34 AM
I think the reason that the refs didn't throw a flag on that Vick play is because it was like the play right before that, or maybe 2 plays before, that the Eagles were the beneficiaries of a pretty flimsy call that went against the Colts. So they kept the hanky in their pocket and I'm ok with that.
no
because they have nothing to do with determining the outcome of a play im admittedly very conservative when it comes to throwing a flag for late hits but i didnt think the vick hit should have been called...he carried him pretty far out of bounds but it was more from momentum thant it was from a huge hit
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 09, 2010, 11:57:12 AM
because they have nothing to do with determining the outcome of a play im admittedly very conservative when it comes to throwing a flag for late hits but i didnt think the vick hit should have been called...he carried him pretty far out of bounds but it was more from momentum thant it was from a huge hit
no
Whitlock is obviously a racist when it comes to unnecessary roughness. (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-officials-need-a-bigger-safety-net-jason-whitlock-110810)
Quote from: ice grillin you on November 09, 2010, 07:34:54 AM
three pages after the fact on a bad call in a game the eagles won?
really?
If they lost everyone would be saying that anyone who complains about the refs are a bunch of whiners and excuse-makers. So might as well bitch about it when you win.
does anyone else find igy complaining about others belaboring a point completely hysterical?
Not hysterical, but clownish and completely in character for him.
Quote from: FastFreddie on November 09, 2010, 03:47:39 PM
Whitlock is obviously a racist when it comes to unnecessary roughness. (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-officials-need-a-bigger-safety-net-jason-whitlock-110810)
Sarcasm? Because even though Whitlock often makes race an issue when it isn't, I'm not getting that sense from the article. I thought it was a well written piece.....except the first line:
QuoteLet me repeat: I'm all for Roger Goodell's effort to make the NFL safer for its players.
How can you open an article by saying "Let me repeat?" That seems like a phrase more suitable for the latter 2/3's of a column. Todd must be Whitlock's ghost writer or something.
Quote from: Rome on November 09, 2010, 05:41:01 PM
does anyone else find igy complaining about others belaboring a point completely hysterical?
theres tons of points that deserve to be belabored...crying about the refs for three days after a win is not one of them
Here's my problem with that explanation. By their definition, Collie was protected all the way through the play because it wasn't a reception.
So why the farg was the hit on Celek in the 1st quarter not hitting a defenseless receiver. He'd already clearly dropped the ball and got leveled.
I call bullshtein.
QuoteCarl Johnson defends personal foul penalties on Eagles
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 10, 2010 8:00 PM ET
Two personal foul penalties called against the Eagles in Sunday's win over the Colts have drawn a great deal of scrutiny, with many Eagles fans crying foul that hits on Austin Collie and Peyton Manning of the Colts drew flags.
NFL V.P. of officiating Carl Johnson, however, says that he's comfortable with his officials throwing flags on both plays in question.
In the most-discussed hit of this week in the NFL, Eagles safety Quintin Mikell hit Collie with a hard but legal shot to the midsection, and then Eagles defensive back Kurt Coleman collided with Collie, helmet-to-helmet. The NFL decided not to fine Coleman because Mikell's legal hit redirected Collie into Coleman. But Johnson said that doesn't mean his officials were wrong to throw the flag.
"Our officials are instructed to err on the side of safety," Johnson said on NFL Network's Total Access. "Our number one priority is player safety and when we make calls on the field we don't determine what discipline may follow."
Late in the fourth quarter, Trent Cole's hand hit the back of Manning's helmet in what seemed to be a fairly minor shot to the head. But Johnson said 15-yard penalties are called for even in minor cases of contact with the helmet.
"That 15-yard penalty is a strong deterrent," Johnson said. "We want to do everything possible to protect our players. . . . We want them to lower their target. I know he's trying to strip the ball, but we can't officiate intent. When they swing and make contact to the head, especially with a quarterback in the pocket looking downfield, it is a foul. It will draw a flag."
So that's the official word from the boss of all the NFL officials. I have a feeling Eagles fans won't be satisfied.
Is this farging guy serious?
You should be flagged for reviving this thread.