From today's DN: (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/12938754.htm)
Quote"Look, I have no interest in this," Leitch says. "I don't know Donovan. What he does doesn't affect me, but as an athlete, I have to say if you need surgery and you don't have this done, you're cheating yourself. Fly over there and be done with it."
Over there would be Munich, home to the Hernia Center and its director, Dr. Ulrike Muschaweck, a woman who has revolutionized sports hernia repair. Using a procedure she developed called Minimal Repair Technique, athletes are returning to competition in 10 days to 2 weeks.
That's full competition with no limits, no restrictions and best of all, no re-tears. Her recurrence rate is an astonishing .002 percent.
So, does Burkholder read the DN?
C
I have to think that he knows about this without having to read it in the newspaper.
I would hope he knows about this without having to read it in the newspaper, especially the Daily News
I don't trust those sneaky Germans.
Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on October 19, 2005, 07:23:21 AM
I have to think that he knows about this without having to read it in the newspaper.
One would like to think so, but outside of soccer, it appears that this is new to US professional athletes. I'd be curious to hear the other side of the story - if they know about it, why aren't they going with it? It sounds like a no-brainer...
maybe the other side is death.
in 10 days you are good as new, or dead. thats one hell of a risk
Nuke the whales.
i have to think thats some kind of tuskegee experiment going on over there
dont do it black
Is it safe?
Use TO as a lab rat. If TO croaks, then obviously we know its a Tuskegee thing.
Quote from: sallad selgae on October 19, 2005, 08:27:04 AM
Is it safe?
Another quote from the article:
Quote
Muschaweck, a hernia specialist of 12 years who tailors her surgeries based on a patient's age, occupation and needs, doesn't use mesh with athletes, preferring instead to keep the elasticity between the muscle layers after surgery. Instead Muschaweck only opens the defected area, leaving the surrounding muscle tissue intact.
Muschaweck also pays close attention to the genitofemoral nerve, which often is a source of hernia pain and, and if necessary removes part of it.
Afterward each layer of muscle is sutured separately, allowing for a less painful and speedier recovery.
"We don't operate on the intact structures; only the defect," Muschaweck explains. "That's the secret, minimizing the operating technique. It's only a small area that's causing the pain, so there's no need to open something more."
If it sounds simple, it sort of is. The reason no one in the United States is going this route is that, unlike Europe, doctors here are only starting to recognize and diagnose sports hernias with regularity. Muschaweck, on the other hand, has more than 12,000 hernia repairs on her resume.
That's 24 relapses out of 12,000 (assuming they mean .002 = 0.2%, not 0.002% which would be less than one). farg, even if he does re-tear it, would it be worse than what he's feeling now? It isn't like the surgery would be ripping his guts out:
QuoteMuschaweck, a hernia specialist of 12 years who tailors her surgeries based on a patient's age, occupation and needs, doesn't use mesh with athletes, preferring instead to keep the elasticity between the muscle layers after surgery. Instead Muschaweck only opens the defected area, leaving the surrounding muscle tissue intact.
Muschaweck also pays close attention to the genitofemoral nerve, which often is a source of hernia pain and, and if necessary removes part of it.
Afterward each layer of muscle is sutured separately, allowing for a less painful and speedier recovery.
"We don't operate on the intact structures; only the defect," Muschaweck explains. "That's the secret, minimizing the operating technique. It's only a small area that's causing the pain, so there's no need to open something more."
The US regulatory agencies and the AMA tend to take a long time to adopt new techniques developed abroad. Hell, they were doing Laser Eye Surgery in Europe for 10 years before it was approved in this country.
I wonder if this is comparable to what they did for Schilling in the WS. Hopefully it's a little more permanent than that...
The thing is, this has been done on "soccer players", who in the article are said to be "Europe's NFL." Repeat after me---Soccer IS NOT THE SAME AS THE NFL. Soccer is a 90 minute game running up and down the field. Yeah, you twist your body certain ways, but you don't get hit full on and take a punding for those 90 minutes. That's one reson I for one wouldn't think this surgery would work on NFL players, especially on a QB.
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on October 19, 2005, 09:56:01 AM
The thing is, this has been done on "soccer players", who in the article are said to be "Europe's NFL." Repeat after me---Soccer IS NOT THE SAME AS THE NFL. Soccer is a 90 minute game running up and down the field. Yeah, you twist your body certain ways, but you don't get hit full on and take a punding for those 90 minutes. That's one reson I for one wouldn't think this surgery would work on NFL players, especially on a QB.
thing is though, the act of being hit, does not effect a hernia at all. it's painful, but the hitting does not do anything to it.
soccer players would actually tend to do more damage playing with a hernia because it's so non-stop. hernia's are range of motion type injuries, not impact injuries.
Quote from: Wingspan on October 19, 2005, 10:17:38 AM
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on October 19, 2005, 09:56:01 AM
The thing is, this has been done on "soccer players", who in the article are said to be "Europe's NFL." Repeat after me---Soccer IS NOT THE SAME AS THE NFL. Soccer is a 90 minute game running up and down the field. Yeah, you twist your body certain ways, but you don't get hit full on and take a punding for those 90 minutes. That's one reson I for one wouldn't think this surgery would work on NFL players, especially on a QB.
thing is though, the act of being hit, does not effect a hernia at all. it's painful, but the hitting does not do anything to it.
soccer players would actually tend to do more damage playing with a hernia because it's so non-stop. hernia's are range of motion type injuries, not impact injuries.
beat me to it. McNabb himself talked about that. What was hurting him when he got HIT, was the chest contusion. The hernia bothers him when he twists or moves quickly.
If Burkholder knew about this and was planning on using it, he would have done it before the bye week eh?
Quote from: MURP on October 19, 2005, 10:22:07 AM
If Burkholder knew about this and was planning on using it, he would have done it before the bye week eh?
Sure, talk all reasonable about it why don't you?
Quote from: MURP on October 19, 2005, 10:22:07 AM
If Burkholder knew about this and was planning on using it, he would have done it before the bye week eh?
Agreed, so I'm left to think one of three things:
1) Burkholder didn't know about it
2) Some arrogant US doctor poo-pooed it because of "not invented here" syndrome
3) There are legitimate concerns about the technique, and DPO decided to ignore them / not address them in her article.
I'm guessing the iceholes at the beginning of this thread are assuming #3, but I'm guessing #1 with a small chance of #2.
Quote from: bobbyinlondon on October 19, 2005, 09:56:01 AM
The thing is, this has been done on "soccer players", who in the article are said to be "Europe's NFL." Repeat after me---Soccer IS NOT THE SAME AS THE NFL. Soccer is a 90 minute game running up and down the field. Yeah, you twist your body certain ways, but you don't get hit full on and take a punding for those 90 minutes. That's one reson I for one wouldn't think this surgery would work on NFL players, especially on a QB.
QuoteThough many of Muschaweck's patients play professional soccer - it is, after all, Europe's version of the NFL - she says it doesn't matter what sport her patient plays because sports hernias affect motion. Contact doesn't alter the injury.
Agreed, so I'm left to think one of three things:
1) Burkholder didn't know about it
2) Some arrogant US doctor poo-pooed it because of "not invented here" syndrome
3) There are legitimate concerns about the technique, and DPO decided to ignore them / not address them in her article.
4) mcnabb would sooner amputate his abdoman than have some dr frankenstein cut him open
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 10:38:00 AM
4) mcnabb would sooner amputate his abdoman than have some dr frankenstein cut him open
If his doc told him it was OK, he'd do it.
Frankly, I'd sooner put my fate in the hands of a German doctor than a US doctor. In my experience (and it is my business), Germans are much more conservative than Americans on technical matters.
McNabb would do whatever his doctors tell him to do, I'm sure. Since when does he have an opinion of his own? Someone said it here recently, and I agree: the guy is milquetoast.
McNabb would do whatever his doctors tell him to do, I'm sure. Since when does he have an opinion of his own? Someone said it here recently, and I agree: the guy is milquetoast
tru dat
McNabb would rather let the team and us suffer just like him. Go to GERMANY you basterd!
If it wasn't for us, the French would be speaking German right now.
so would the english
Quote from: rjs246 on October 19, 2005, 11:49:57 AM
If it wasn't for us, the French would be speaking German right now.
Du bist hundin.
I've never heard of this surgery, and I follow soccer. No reason to think Burkholder had heard about it either. If we're going to do it, now's the time--we have 2 out-of-conference games in a row coming up.
Quote from: PhillyandBCEagles on October 19, 2005, 01:53:13 PM
I've never heard of this surgery, and I follow soccer. No reason to think Burkholder had heard about it either. If we're going to do it, now's the time--we have 2 out-of-conference games in a row coming up.
no reason to think that a trainer for a professional football team wouldn't be up on all new techniques and proceedures?
Doctors are stupid algorhythm whores. They don't learn about anything unless a sales rep talks about it for 30 min at their 3 day vacation in Cozumel.
soccer fan>anyone in the medical profession
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 02:38:19 PM
soccer fan>anyone in the medical profession
Quote from: ice grillin youim the board pharmacist
:-D
It's nice how everyone knows what McNabb is thinking and what he would do if he knew anything, and what he should do based on a newspaper article. ::)
I think that TO and McNabb got in a fight and when TO hit McNabb, it tore his abdomen and the whole sports hernia thing is a cover up.
i caught the 1st 15 min of Howard and he was totally ripping the whole deal. he said the Eagles do know about it and that they don't think it's the way to go (paraphrasing)
he kept mentioning something about it being done in a hotel room, not sure where he got that from though.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 19, 2005, 04:12:39 PM
i caught the 1st 15 min of Howard and he was totally ripping the whole deal. he said the Eagles do know about it and that they don't think it's the way to go (paraphrasing)
he kept mentioning something about it being done in a hotel room, not sure where he got that from though.
From his "sources" I'm sure.
We wouldn't be having this discussion if cloning was in effect. Throw the bad one away and activate the good one.
he kept mentioning something about it being done in a hotel room, not sure where he got that from though.
lol..yeah i heard that...thats what im saying...i wouldnt trust shtein over there...
mr mcnabb your hernia surgery will take place at 8 AM in room 212 of the days inn and the doctor from canonball run will be presiding
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 19, 2005, 04:12:39 PM
i caught the 1st 15 min of Howard and blah blah blah blah blah
he kept mentioning something about being done up the ass in a hotel room
fixed
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 04:17:50 PM
he kept mentioning something about it being done in a hotel room, not sure where he got that from though.
lol..yeah i heard that...thats what im saying...i wouldnt trust shtein over there...
mr mcnabb your hernia surgery will take place at 8 AM in room 212 of the days inn and the doctor from canonball run will be presiding
But you trust it coming from Eskin's mouth? Figures.
i know you hate him, but do you really doubt that he has people who tell him stuff within the Eagles?
he kisses their ass so much, and is their propoganda machine, obvoiusly someone there is telling him stuff.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 19, 2005, 04:12:39 PM
i caught the 1st 15 min of Howard and he was totally ripping the whole deal. he said the Eagles do know about it and that they don't think it's the way to go (paraphrasing)
he kept mentioning something about it being done in a hotel room, not sure where he got that from though.
That's because them German doctors offer services in addition to surgery. Probably why it isn't covered under McNabb's PPO and why he's not getting it done.
But you trust it coming from Eskin's mouth? Figures
not really...i said theres no way id do it in my first post on the subject...long before the gods show started
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 19, 2005, 04:19:34 PM
i know you hate him, but do you really doubt that he has people who tell him stuff within the Eagles?
he kisses their ass so much, and is their propoganda machine, obvoiusly someone there is telling him stuff.
Nevermind his arrogance and complete insecurity in his manhood (which is evident when he uses his lame ass chauvinistic insults towards women when they call.....My problem with him is how he is really dumb when it comes to knowing sports. He is just plain ignorant. When I used to listen sparingly, I would hear pretty intelligent callers try to dispute something with him with actual facts and Eskin would call them idiots and hang up on them...or he'd come back with completely idiotic answers that were just plain wrong. He has no knowledge of the x's and o's of ANY sport...yes, EVEN FOOTBALL. He butchers players names, etc. He is on the air because some people find him entertaining. But sports-wise, he's a joke. Its the exact same thing as Cataldi.
When TO got hurt, Eskin "broke" the news that he'd only miss 2 games....that there was no break, but only a small tear (or something to that effect). This was from his inside sources, as he himself claimed. That was debunked like 20 minutes later when Reid, Burkholder and the surgeon all spoke. It's shtein like that that drives me crazy.
no doubt, i totally 1000% agree with you, Cataldi and Eskin both have absolutely no knowledge of how the actual game is played and the ins and outs of strategy. that is why I listen to 950 more than 610 now.
and yeah, Howard gets stuff wrong, even from his "sources" (Billy Wagner is a major one that comes to mind) but i do think Howard has a little bit to offer regarding the inside, behind the scenes of some of the teams, especially the Eagles. but I agree with you, that aspect of his show is not enough to make listening to him worthwhile.
fair warning to 950 listeners. start turning it off at 5:23pm and come back at about 5:33...there's a crotchedy old guy who calls in every day about baseball and just doesnt shut up. his name is George i think...i am pretty sure it's MDS. but whatever.
ive forgotten more about sports than everyone on 610 and 950 combined times 10 has ever known...that being the case i listen to what entertains me the most and wip in general and howard specifically cracks me up...i love it and him
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 04:37:02 PM
i listen to what entertains me the most and wip in general and howard specifically cracks me up...i love it and him
well, that's how I feel about Mike Miss
Quote from: Wingspan on October 19, 2005, 04:36:56 PM
fair warning to 950 listeners. start turning it off at 5:23pm and come back at about 5:33...there's a crotchedy old guy who calls in every day about baseball and just doesnt shut up. his name is George i think...i am pretty sure it's MDS. but whatever.
:-D :-D :-D I have heard him!
Quote from: Wingspan on October 19, 2005, 04:36:56 PM
fair warning to 950 listeners. start turning it off at 5:23pm and come back at about 5:33...there's a crotchedy old guy who calls in every day about baseball and just doesnt shut up. his name is George i think...i am pretty sure it's MDS. but whatever.
there are a lot of listeners that don't know when to shut up. i can't stand these people who ask a question but go into 28 different tangents as they ask it.
and I also can't stand the people who ask the opinion of the host, and when the host's opinion doesn't match the caller's, the caller has to say, "yeah, well i just thought...." and totally repeat the same crap he just said.
i dont understand asking the opinion of hosts in general...do you not have friends or family or people in your life whom you could talk sports with...hell theres at least ten people on this board whos opinions id value over any radio host
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 04:44:54 PM
i dont understand asking the opinion of hosts in general...do you not have friends or family or people in your life whom you could talk sports with...hell theres at least ten people on this board whos opinions id value over any radio host
is SunMo 1-9?
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 04:44:54 PM
i dont understand asking the opinion of hosts in general...do you not have friends or family or people in your life whom you could talk sports with...hell theres at least ten people on this board whos opinions id value over any radio host
I was just thinking the same thing regarding all these fantasy football shows or fantasy segments on sports channels. Most of those guys are knuckleheads.
is SunMo 1-9?
1. pg
1a. sun
damn
Oh well, a guy can dream...
Quote from: Daily News
McNabb and head coach Andy Reid said they have researched Muschaweck's procedure - a less invasive hernia surgery that typically gets athletes back to full competition within 2 weeks - and, while they are impressed with the results, they aren't willing to make the flight.
"It's been part of our discussions. It's been on the table," Reid said. "It's a little bit of a different procedure."
Understandably reluctant to have any unnecessary surgical procedure, McNabb said he's equally leery of counting on a timetable that is, at best, a guess.
linky (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/nfl/12948514.htm)
I still have to think they would have to consider this option if he felt that he couldn't continue without surgery this season.
Maybe part of that decision is that McNabb is confident he can continue to play with the hernia. As we all know (over and over and over), hits don't make it worse.
oooo eeee oo ah ah
ting tang walla walla bing bang
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on October 20, 2005, 02:33:05 PM
Maybe part of that decision is that McNabb is confident he can continue to play with the hernia. As we all know (over and over and over), hits don't make it worse.
That's the emphasis of the article - McNabb doesn't want to have
any surgery, regardless of the
projected amount of time to return.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 19, 2005, 04:21:19 PM
But you trust it coming from Eskin's mouth? Figures
not really...i said theres no way id do it in my first post on the subject...long before the gods show started
Eskin the same guy who thinks men look good in fur ::)