Get advice from smart people on medical procedures

[Eagaholic]

try a vibrator

[Dillen]

How many of you had back spasms or lower disc problems? I've had a combination of both for maybe 9 months now. I've only had back spasms once before, maybe 5 years ago, but those were significantly more painful and happened about every 15 seconds for only two weeks tops. This time they occur a lot less frequently (usually over 2-3 hours, 2-3 times a week). There have been times where I felt pretty good for about a week, then a split instance sends me back to square one. Like yesterday, I had felt good for a little while. Walk outside, it's chilly, back fargs itself and by the time I get to my car can't bend over without wanting to kill myself. I know walking helps a little, sometimes I just sit in the shower with the hottest water blasting right on the injury, and that helps too. I know sitting a lot is bad. Basically even the stiffest of beds will randomly mess it up. I've went to a sports med doctor for all my problems and he's always the shtein, but he's out of the country for another couple weeks. NSAID's and muscle relaxers have done basically nothing. Anyone ever effectively deal with a problem like this any other way?

[Eagaholic]

Back problems suck, hope you can get better soon.

I've had them on and off over the years but much less frequent and severe than they used to be now that I've gotten a fairly good handle on treating them. I've had herniated discs in my neck and lower back damage after car/motorcycle accidents in my younger days (and at least 2 or 3 pretty severe concussions to boot - I know, which explains things...).

I know everyone is different but here are some of the causes/triggers I've found and what works best to treat it.

As far as causes, I've found by trial and error by far the biggest one is diet. Things like overdoing it at the gym lifting or sudden cold on my back are triggers but aren't the cause that predisposes me to the problem. The worst things food wise are too much sugar, dairy, bad quality oils in foods (eg hydrogenated), and the worst of all is fried food, especially with super heated oils (boiled to the point of smoking, like a deep frier or with pan cooking- the body isn't naturally designed to easily process it and it's even worse for joints). Too much alcohol also contributes and anything that can dehydrate, even too much sweating or just not drinking enough water can cause electrolyte imbalance which may trigger spasm. If you by chance smoke, I know just one cigarette and I can feel tightness in the back of my neck. If I go on a little binge and smoke a few over a few days I probably have a 50/50 chance of some problem. That's just me but I do think it can effect muscle tension.

As far as treatment, there are things in traditional as well as alternative medicine that might really help. If you haven't tried adding a narcotic pain killer to the nsaids, think about a short course of just a few days max, if you are able to with work etc. Drugs like Lortab seems to help reset things rather than just just change the contraction threshold of the muscle like the muscle relaxants do, kind of like like allowing the circuit breaker to trip and reset when the circuit gets overloaded instead of just turning down the volume.

The biggest help along with diet has been chiropractic. I'm a huge fan. At one point I was in chronic and often severe neck pain and had gone to a couple of specialists including a neurologist and a specialized physical therapist, but they couldn't help. I was having lower and mid back spasm as well and my head was almost permanently crooked off to the side. I found a great chiropractor who had me pain free in a week back playing sports within a month. I couldn't believe it. One caveat, there are good as well as bad chiropractors, like doctors or any other profession. Also, a lot of misinformed people have a negative view of chiropractic due to the propaganda and longstanding smear campaign of the AMA. The AMA was actually found guilty of this in a federal court in Chicago and iicr two of their officers received prison sentences.

If you happen to live in the Philly area I can recommend a very good chiropractor, Rob Kane. I go out of my way to see him whenever I'm in town. Oh btw, his partner left the practice after he became too busy as the Eagles and then also Flyers chiropractor. When he is on the road with the Eagles and the Flyers are home, Rob fills in to work with them. He's a good guy. I've had many an hour of great sports talk there. He is off rt 309 in Fort Washington, (215) 540-1933 if anyone is interested.

Another thing that is really effective - and sounds goofy - is to take 2-3 days to do a juice fast. If you can do it for 3 days I'd be willing to bet most if not all of your symptoms will clear up by the end. You can readily get organic carrot juice at supermarkets and is pretty cheap at Costco. Maybe the best one is just to squeeze nothing but fresh lemon and/or lime juice, add water and just enough maple syrup (grade B is the best) to taste good. It's basically just lime/lemonade. Drink lots of water, too. If I do this and get a couple of chiro adjustments and maybe acupuncture, it will invariably get rid of 80-100 percent of the symptoms (don't do it though, or pm me if you happen to have blood sugar problems). I don't remember if it was as quite as effective years ago when I was almost incapacitated, but it did help a lot. Now when I feel it coming on I can usually knock it out in 2-3 days before it gets particularly painful and usually I'm back in the gym within a week.

Not all but most back spasm involves inflammation. Google proinflamatory and anti inflammatory foods. Obviously NSAIDS are strongly anti inflammatory but can have side effects, sometimes serious with long term use, but fish oil is a fairly safe anti inflammatory to take as an ongoing supplement.

Lastly, cold is often recommended for the 1st two or 3 days of back spasm but has made it worse for me. Like you, heat helps. The best thing I've found is using a steam room and pool if you have access (don't over do it and drink a ton of water). Alternate between the pool and steam room (or if not, sauna), with going in the pool to gently stretch. The great thing about stretching in the pool is that when you stretch, whatever muscle groups you are trying to relax, other groups have to tighten up to compensate. Because you weigh so much less in the water, you need much less contraction, including inadvertent stabilizing movements that can trigger spasm and pain. Just keep a stable base.

Anyway, some people have back problems for a few weeks or months and then it leaves quickly for good, hope that's true for you. For me, I've gotten it to a point that when it comes up it is more of an annoyance or inconvenience than a problem by using the above, hope it helps.









   

[Dillen]

As far as diet goes, the only thing you mentioned that I consume a lot of is dairy. Very little sugar, only oil I use is olive oil, very little alcohol. I drink a ton of water. I can't imagine how dairy could be linked to this. I know the proinflammatory foods are usually baked or processed goods, aside from bread I don't have any of that. I already knew cherries and raspberries had anti-inflam qualities, just looked up other anti-inflammatory foods - lean meats, omega-3s, whole grains, I have all that. So it's probably not diet..

Definitely on board with chiropractors. My sports med doctor does that of sorts, and it really is amazing how many quick fixes they can pull off. He's fixed me up with any dumb thing joint problem you can imagine, aside from this. I've had these problems re-occurring for a long time (first hurt pitching in high school), and it usually only lasted maybe a day or two, but then wouldn't come up again after another year or longer.  I had gotten to see him before he left town a little while ago - believe it or not, apparently my left leg is about 3/4 inch shorter than my right. I have a peg leg. Entire body is slightly misaligned, more pressure on the lower left side (every single time I've had a back problem, it's in the exact same spot) which leads to this all the time. So he had put my heel on a small book, bend down, up, and it felt a million times better. Now I've put insoles in all of my left shoes, which has helped. I told him that there's no way the fix is as easy as this, but he said it's happened before. Unfortunately, still need to figure out a way to get this to go away right now.

Not around the Philly area, but family is in the Exton/Downingtown area so if the problem remains whenever I visit will be sure to look him up. Do you have any experience with getting massage treatment? I've heard some good things, a lot of powerlifters at my gym worship it, but I feel like I'd expect too much. Unsure if it's something you need to have a million different sessions for, etc.

Don't really think this is going to be an all-time fix since this has reoccured so often. Like you, it's only been a minor annoyance that comes up every so often, but this one has left me pretty much incapacitated. The past few days I've actually had to slide sideways out of bed, prop my hands against the wall, hold myself there for a couple minutes, and then can finally stand up. After walking around for awhile I loosen up, and can move somewhat freely.

Thanks for the help. Didn't expect this much info, much appreciated.

[Eagaholic]

I've seen massage therapists on and off but not so much for back spasm. From what I remember it generally helps some but not enough to break the episode. But that is with fairly limited experience. I do know the therapists vary in ability and technique so you might ask around for a recommendation. It sounds like your causes/triggers are different than mine and could in part be more structural (shorter leg), but as an aside dairy is often considered one of the big four in food allergies (with gluten, soy and eggs). These aren't the full blown emergency type food allergies that for example peanuts or seafood can cause in some people, but a secondary and delayed type of reaction that can cause an array of problems including musculoskeletal. Anyway good luck with it, I know it's a bitch to deal with and I remember days of taking 5-10 excruciating minutes just to work my way out of bed. Hopefully it passes quickly.

[Seabiscuit36]

Came down with a nasty sinus infections makings is way into my lungs.  While at the doc's office, they offered Vaccinations for TDAP and the flu.  I did both.  Only because of little SB36

[Diomedes]

I broke my leg once.

[SunMo]

my right knee has been clicking, stiff, and sore for quite some time.  i brought this up during my annual physical and the doc thought maybe it was my meniscus which was what i was hoping for because that's correctable.  unfortunately when i got my xray it turned out to be arthritis, which sucks because there isn't much to be done with that except deal with it

[PhillyPhreak54]

my right knee has been clicking, stiff, and sore for quite some time.  i brought this up during my annual physical and the doc thought maybe it was my meniscus which was what i was hoping for because that's correctable.  unfortunately when i got my xray it turned out to be arthritis, which sucks because there isn't much to be done with that except deal with it

exactly the same thing here...I've got it in both knees. I thought meniscus too and when they did the x-rays they said arthritis. The crazy thing is it started with a quickness. I had no problems up until the end of last year and then they swelled up and since then its been hell.

I have had cortisone shots in both and that helped immensely.

Combine that with the ankle surgery I had and the doc said no more running on pavement or boot camp classes.

[Zanshin]

I'm sitting in physical therapy for my bicep tendon even as we speak. Years of martial arts and the gym are showing up. So, I guess we're just all turning into old fargers.

[SunMo]

my right knee has been clicking, stiff, and sore for quite some time.  i brought this up during my annual physical and the doc thought maybe it was my meniscus which was what i was hoping for because that's correctable.  unfortunately when i got my xray it turned out to be arthritis, which sucks because there isn't much to be done with that except deal with it

exactly the same thing here...I've got it in both knees. I thought meniscus too and when they did the x-rays they said arthritis. The crazy thing is it started with a quickness. I had no problems up until the end of last year and then they swelled up and since then its been hell.

I have had cortisone shots in both and that helped immensely.

Combine that with the ankle surgery I had and the doc said no more running on pavement or boot camp classes.

i have the same pain in my left knee but i didn't speak up about that because the right is considerably worse.  my doc didn't even talk about cortisone, just PT which I'm not sure i want to do for $30 co-pay per visit.  maybe do it once or twice and learn the exercises and then do it myself.

i'm going to stop running and when this week is over i'll probably have to stop the high impact training i do at my house.  jumping, and doing various exercises on thin carpet/padding over concrete slab probably isn't helping issues

[Zanshin]

My physical therapy place did some insurance ninja work and they're waiving the co pay for me. Might be worth looking into.

[Rome]

$479 for an MRI plus another couple hundred in copays and my knee guy finally drained it and shot me with cortisone.   3 months later and not a single bit of pain or swelling has reemerged.   

Cortisone is a freaking miracle.

[SunMo]

My physical therapy place did some insurance ninja work and they're waiving the co pay for me. Might be worth looking into.

i'm debating whether or not to look into it, or do nothing and continue to complain about it.  i'll make a decision soon probably

[Diomedes]

I tore the medial meniscus in my right knee.  Surgery is scheduled for December.