DeSean Jackson, Philadelphia Eagle (PIMP)

[ice grillin you]

have you been watching Shady?  He's as good at what he does as DeSean is at his job, at least. 

shady is wonderfully productive but hes also much easier to replace...pimp isnt the best player in the league or a league mvp type but he brings a skill set that you dont often see in the nfl and you never have seen on the eagles...can you win without him absolutely....but when you get someone like him you should hold on to him because you arent gonna see a guy like him on the eagles anytime soon...so id think twice about dismissing him because he hurt your feelings when he didnt reach for a football

TO was a better playmaker and Quick was as good or better, and maybe just as fast as Jackson. But it isn't about how good a 'playmaker' one is, it is how good a player they are. Irving Fryar had better years for the Eagles than DJ.

quicks 40 time was average at best....he did have above average game speed because of his long strides...but pimp would lap him

TO is a completely different package than pimp...didnt return punts...and while he commanded a safety over the top he wasnt pushing the defense back an extra 10-20 yards on every play....by no means am i saying id rather have pimp than TO but they arent like players...altho TO was known to alligator arm it on occasion and dropped a shteinload of balls

[Eagaholic]

have you been watching Shady?  He's as good at what he does as DeSean is at his job, at least. 

shady is wonderfully productive but hes also much easier to replace...pimp isnt the best player in the league or a league mvp type but he brings a skill set that you dont often see in the nfl and you never have seen on the eagles...can you win without him absolutely....but when you get someone like him you should hold on to him because you arent gonna see a guy like him on the eagles anytime soon...so id think twice about dismissing him because he hurt your feelings when he didnt reach for a football

TO was a better playmaker and Quick was as good or better, and maybe just as fast as Jackson. But it isn't about how good a 'playmaker' one is, it is how good a player they are. Irving Fryar had better years for the Eagles than DJ.

quicks 40 time was average at best....he did have above average game speed because of his long strides...but pimp would lap him

TO is a completely different package than pimp...didnt return punts...and while he commanded a safety over the top he wasnt pushing the defense back an extra 10-20 yards on every play....by no means am i saying id rather have pimp than TO but they arent like players...altho TO was known to alligator arm it on occasion and dropped a shteinload of balls

I was comparing DJ to TO in answering about the zero wrs in 78 years. Quick had elite speed and was maybe the fastest WR in the league in his prime, especially since Cliff Branch was getting over the hill at that point.

[MDS]

man there is some serious revisionist history going on with pimp

people need to check the first page of this thread and remind themselves who they be talkin bout

[SD]

This is a "what have you done for me lately" league.

[ice grillin you]

http://www.sportsxchange.com/ds97/walsh/walsh2wr.htm

How I Evaluate Each Position:
Wide Receiver
By Bill Walsh
PSX Draft Insider Special

WIDE RECEIVER

Ideal size: 6-3, 210

The critical factor at wide receiver in my mind is agility and body control, the ability to change your body position often off the g round in order to get your hands in position to make the catch, ala Cris Carter of Minnesota. He would be the ideal in that respect.

That particular characteristic must be there for the receiver to be considered a Pro Bowl or a Hall of Fame player. You must have that to get to the highest tier of play.

Secondly is strength. That is somewhat related to girth. You need to power through players. When you are bounced into players you must be able to keep your feet, regain your balance and move into position and continue your pass route. So there has to be a certain amount of strength, as Jerry Rice or John Taylor demonstrated so often with the 49ers.

Hands are vital, but you almost have to assume that anyone you are considering is going to have outstanding hands. The difference between players is the agility and strength that was mentioned. That allows them to get into position to make the catch, to use their hands.

We can have drills where the receiver is running under the ball and making great catch after great catch. So people would assume that he has outstanding hands. But in reality, most catches are made with the ball and the defender closing at the same instant and the receiver having to reverse his body into a totally different position, get your hands up and catch the ball and be hit at the same moment. That is the key element in greatness -- agility and strength together.

Focus is critical here. The ability to find the ball, focusing on it and isolating it from everything else that's happening. When you are evaluating the tapes, you look for those plays that demonstrate those situations. You make a evaluation tape of those plays.

You establish the criteria that you require. Then you have a tape that demonstrates those requirements.

Pure speed is helpful, but full-stride speed becomes important. You would like a receiver with the ball in the open field to be able to keep the separation with the closing defenders until he gets over the goal line. He doesn't have to outrun them. He doesn't have to gain ground on them. He just has to get there before they do so he scores. So it doesn't have to be sprinters' speed, but full-stride speed.

A good example of that was Mike Quick when he was at Philadelphia. He had just an average 40 time, but once in the open field the long strides gave him the functional speed to stay away or get away from defenders. Dwight Clark, believe it or not, was never caught from behind once he got into full stride. Now he used the field to weave and bend, but he was never caught. And Jerry Rice will never be caught from behind by anyone if they both have the same, basic starting point.

Now there have been other people who have been Olympic sprinters who get tangled up and can't get back into full stride quickly enough and somebody just comes up and overwhelms them from out of nowhere. If they catch the ball and there is any contact at all, by the time they get back in running stride, the people have closed on them. Full-stride speed is the key.

Coaching becomes a factor in regards to their ability to evade at the line of scrimmage and their ability to read the form of coverage and their ability to change a pattern accordingly. That all comes through coaching, training and their focus in a game.

Durability is a factor because they are going to be hit a lot. And they are going to be hit when they are in a vulnerable position at times. And they are going to be hit by much bigger men when they catch a hook pattern against a linebacker.

Injuries are key because at this position injuries impair their ability to function at a high level, especially when compared to, say, an offensive lineman who can play damaged. Wide receivers are finely tuned athletes who need to be in top condition to perform well. If they are in any way damaged, it is difficult for them to function at a high level.

[SunMo]

bill walsh don't have shtein on CF when it comes to football knowledge

[Eagaholic]

http://www.sportsxchange.com/ds97/walsh/walsh2wr.htm

How I Evaluate Each Position:
Wide Receiver
By Bill Walsh
PSX Draft Insider Special

WIDE RECEIVER

Ideal size: 6-3, 210

The critical factor at wide receiver in my mind is agility and body control, the ability to change your body position often off the g round in order to get your hands in position to make the catch, ala Cris Carter of Minnesota. He would be the ideal in that respect.

That particular characteristic must be there for the receiver to be considered a Pro Bowl or a Hall of Fame player. You must have that to get to the highest tier of play.

Secondly is strength. That is somewhat related to girth. You need to power through players. When you are bounced into players you must be able to keep your feet, regain your balance and move into position and continue your pass route. So there has to be a certain amount of strength, as Jerry Rice or John Taylor demonstrated so often with the 49ers.

Hands are vital, but you almost have to assume that anyone you are considering is going to have outstanding hands. The difference between players is the agility and strength that was mentioned. That allows them to get into position to make the catch, to use their hands.

We can have drills where the receiver is running under the ball and making great catch after great catch. So people would assume that he has outstanding hands. But in reality, most catches are made with the ball and the defender closing at the same instant and the receiver having to reverse his body into a totally different position, get your hands up and catch the ball and be hit at the same moment. That is the key element in greatness -- agility and strength together.

Focus is critical here. The ability to find the ball, focusing on it and isolating it from everything else that's happening. When you are evaluating the tapes, you look for those plays that demonstrate those situations. You make a evaluation tape of those plays.

You establish the criteria that you require. Then you have a tape that demonstrates those requirements.

Pure speed is helpful, but full-stride speed becomes important. You would like a receiver with the ball in the open field to be able to keep the separation with the closing defenders until he gets over the goal line. He doesn't have to outrun them. He doesn't have to gain ground on them. He just has to get there before they do so he scores. So it doesn't have to be sprinters' speed, but full-stride speed.

A good example of that was Mike Quick when he was at Philadelphia. He had just an average 40 time, but once in the open field the long strides gave him the functional speed to stay away or get away from defenders. Dwight Clark, believe it or not, was never caught from behind once he got into full stride. Now he used the field to weave and bend, but he was never caught. And Jerry Rice will never be caught from behind by anyone if they both have the same, basic starting point.

Now there have been other people who have been Olympic sprinters who get tangled up and can't get back into full stride quickly enough and somebody just comes up and overwhelms them from out of nowhere. If they catch the ball and there is any contact at all, by the time they get back in running stride, the people have closed on them. Full-stride speed is the key.

Coaching becomes a factor in regards to their ability to evade at the line of scrimmage and their ability to read the form of coverage and their ability to change a pattern accordingly. That all comes through coaching, training and their focus in a game.

Durability is a factor because they are going to be hit a lot. And they are going to be hit when they are in a vulnerable position at times. And they are going to be hit by much bigger men when they catch a hook pattern against a linebacker.

Injuries are key because at this position injuries impair their ability to function at a high level, especially when compared to, say, an offensive lineman who can play damaged. Wide receivers are finely tuned athletes who need to be in top condition to perform well. If they are in any way damaged, it is difficult for them to function at a high level.

Yes, we're saying the same thing. When you talk about the receivers with the best speed, you aren't talking about guys in starting blocks waiting for the gun to go off, you're talking about how fast a guy can beat defenders and get to where he wants to be.

[Drunkmasterflex]

As much as I love Jackson as a player he has shtein the bed this season. You cannot drop as many tds/big-plays like he has and then bitch about money.

He would be wise to take a page out of Matt Forte's book.

[ice grillin you]

http://www.sportsxchange.com/ds97/walsh/walsh2wr.htm

How I Evaluate Each Position:
Wide Receiver
By Bill Walsh
PSX Draft Insider Special

WIDE RECEIVER

Ideal size: 6-3, 210

The critical factor at wide receiver in my mind is agility and body control, the ability to change your body position often off the g round in order to get your hands in position to make the catch, ala Cris Carter of Minnesota. He would be the ideal in that respect.

That particular characteristic must be there for the receiver to be considered a Pro Bowl or a Hall of Fame player. You must have that to get to the highest tier of play.

Secondly is strength. That is somewhat related to girth. You need to power through players. When you are bounced into players you must be able to keep your feet, regain your balance and move into position and continue your pass route. So there has to be a certain amount of strength, as Jerry Rice or John Taylor demonstrated so often with the 49ers.

Hands are vital, but you almost have to assume that anyone you are considering is going to have outstanding hands. The difference between players is the agility and strength that was mentioned. That allows them to get into position to make the catch, to use their hands.

We can have drills where the receiver is running under the ball and making great catch after great catch. So people would assume that he has outstanding hands. But in reality, most catches are made with the ball and the defender closing at the same instant and the receiver having to reverse his body into a totally different position, get your hands up and catch the ball and be hit at the same moment. That is the key element in greatness -- agility and strength together.

Focus is critical here. The ability to find the ball, focusing on it and isolating it from everything else that's happening. When you are evaluating the tapes, you look for those plays that demonstrate those situations. You make a evaluation tape of those plays.

You establish the criteria that you require. Then you have a tape that demonstrates those requirements.

Pure speed is helpful, but full-stride speed becomes important. You would like a receiver with the ball in the open field to be able to keep the separation with the closing defenders until he gets over the goal line. He doesn't have to outrun them. He doesn't have to gain ground on them. He just has to get there before they do so he scores. So it doesn't have to be sprinters' speed, but full-stride speed.

A good example of that was Mike Quick when he was at Philadelphia. He had just an average 40 time, but once in the open field the long strides gave him the functional speed to stay away or get away from defenders. Dwight Clark, believe it or not, was never caught from behind once he got into full stride. Now he used the field to weave and bend, but he was never caught. And Jerry Rice will never be caught from behind by anyone if they both have the same, basic starting point.

Now there have been other people who have been Olympic sprinters who get tangled up and can't get back into full stride quickly enough and somebody just comes up and overwhelms them from out of nowhere. If they catch the ball and there is any contact at all, by the time they get back in running stride, the people have closed on them. Full-stride speed is the key.

Coaching becomes a factor in regards to their ability to evade at the line of scrimmage and their ability to read the form of coverage and their ability to change a pattern accordingly. That all comes through coaching, training and their focus in a game.

Durability is a factor because they are going to be hit a lot. And they are going to be hit when they are in a vulnerable position at times. And they are going to be hit by much bigger men when they catch a hook pattern against a linebacker.

Injuries are key because at this position injuries impair their ability to function at a high level, especially when compared to, say, an offensive lineman who can play damaged. Wide receivers are finely tuned athletes who need to be in top condition to perform well. If they are in any way damaged, it is difficult for them to function at a high level.

Yes, we're saying the same thing. When you talk about the receivers with the best speed, you aren't talking about guys in starting blocks waiting for the gun to go off, you're talking about how fast a guy can beat defenders and get to where he wants to be.

i guess dwight clark had elite speed too....seriously dooks just stop it...quick was more than fast enough to play in the nfl...but he didnt have pimp speed (very few do) or elite speed nor was he even close to being the fastest player in the league

what you are doing is making a common mistake with quick and thats thinking because his name was fast that he was some sort of incredible speed demon...just as mack strong wasnt the most powerful guy in the nfl...this isnt the comics where fast people are named flash and good swimmers aqua...

[General_Failure]

That speed is nice to have when there's a quarterback that can get him the ball. Until Vick gets back, let's not pretend Jackson is going to do anything but look bad.

[Hawk]

Ironic that as igy tries to prove someone wrong about Quick, he ends up making a case against pimp.  Check out that ideal size and weight.

[Rome]

man there is some serious revisionist history going on with pimp

people need to check the first page of this thread and remind themselves who they be talkin bout

I'll recheck the first page if you agree to form complete sentences which omit any sort of urban street slang, okay Mr. Elkins Park?

[ice grillin you]

That speed is nice to have when there's a quarterback that can get him the ball. Until Vick gets back, let's not pretend Jackson is going to do anything but look bad.

i think its a dead subject anyway because pimp isnt coming back....but im not even sure vick can get him the ball...vick has been very average for almost the last year now

they need to somehow lose out and try and get matt barkley.....socal FTW

[Drunkmasterflex]

I wouldn't assume Jackson is automatically gone after this season.  I still think they franchise him.

[ice grillin you]

if they franchise him it will be completely out of spite...which is definitely a possibility with banner inc....but football wise it would be completely assinine...you already lost a season from this guy because of how you treated him so now you are going to ask him to play again on a one year deal (albeit for a lot more money)...you either let him walk or you sign him long term....they cant risk having another year like this one