2007 Philadelphia Phillies Thread - DIVISION CHAMPS MOTHER fargER!!!!

[SunMo]

Mike Arbuckle is responsible for them, Ed Wade is only responsible for keeping them in the minors longer than necessary

Ed Wade = baseball AIDS

[Rome]

True but is he worse than Gillick has been?

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Gillick is champ of the wrong moves.  Wade is the champ of no moves.  But it's a close 2nd on both sides.

[SunMo]

not even close...Gillicks made some poor decisions, but made some good moves too

Ed Wade was flat out incompetent

[Wingspan]

Ed Wade was flat out incompetent

The only thing at this point I give Wade credit for was he at least made some attempts at building a bullpen.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Arbuckle is also responsible for the minor league development of stupid players who have no sense of fundamentals at all. Marti Wolever gets more credit from me for finding some of that young talent and drafting them.

[PhillyPhreak54]

As for the big time name-dropper Johnny Marz saying Girardi is holding out for the Phils? I'd take him here. But there's no way the ultra-sensitive and want-no-waves-made Phillies ownership will hire a guy who was fired for clashing with his GM and ownership.

Hell, I'm surprised that Charlie hasn't been told to shut up for his recent and continued shots at Gillick.

[SunMo]

that's only because they don't understand what he's saying, phreak

[ice grillin you]

i know the phils would never mess up their fluffy clubhouse with a maniac like milton bradley but they should take a run at him

[Seabiscuit36]

i know the phils would never mess up their fluffy clubhouse with a maniac like milton bradley but they should take a run at him

His brother Hasboro is worse than him

[SD_Eagle5]

i know the phils would never mess up their fluffy clubhouse with a maniac like milton bradley but they should take a run at him

His brother Hasboro is worse than him

D

They needed another right handed bat so he'd make sense, maybe they'd take Helms. ha.

Carrasco might be here sooner than later - despite what those in the organization say.

[Rome]

I saw Carrasco pitch twice this year in regular games and again in the all-star game the other night.  He absolutely has the stuff to pitch in the majors.  Excellent control, great command of the strike zone, etc.

However, there is no way in the world he's ready for the majors.  He's at least 200-300 innings away from the Phillies even THINKING of bringing him up.  He needs seasoning and the only way he's going to get that is to do his time in the minor leagues.  He needs to get knocked around a bit and learn what it's like to pitch through adversity.  If they bring him up he'll get shelled and it will likely set him back quite a ways.

He's only 20 years old.  Let him finish out the season in Reading and then do another either at Reading or at AAA.  No need to rush with a prospect like that.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

But he's the last piece they need to win it all!

[Rome]

In 2009.

[Geowhizzer]

I saw Carrasco pitch twice this year in regular games and again in the all-star game the other night.  He absolutely has the stuff to pitch in the majors.  Excellent control, great command of the strike zone, etc.

However, there is no way in the world he's ready for the majors.  He's at least 200-300 innings away from the Phillies even THINKING of bringing him up.  He needs seasoning and the only way he's going to get that is to do his time in the minor leagues.  He needs to get knocked around a bit and learn what it's like to pitch through adversity.  If they bring him up he'll get shelled and it will likely set him back quite a ways.

He's only 20 years old.  Let him finish out the season in Reading and then do another either at Reading or at AAA.  No need to rush with a prospect like that.

Since when did a 20-21 year old starting in the major league become anathema?  It used to be fairly common.

Major league debuts:
Steve Carlton - 20
Bob Feller - 17
Robin Roberts - 21
Dick Ruthven - 19
Nolan Ryan - 19
Sandy Koufax - 19
Tom Seaver - 22
Don Drysdale - 19
Dwight Gooden - 19
Larry Christenson - 19
Curt Schilling - 21
Vida Blue - 19
Curt Simmons - 18
Whitey Ford - 21
Chris Short - 21
Ferguson Jenkins - 22
Frank Tanana - 19
Warren Spahn - 21

These were just names off the top of my head, some HOFers, some decent pitchers in their careers.  Some didn't become full time for a season or two (Spahn and Whitey Ford missed time for military service).

I'm not saying that Carrasco should be brought up, but this extreme babying of pitchers is one of the reasons that the quality of pitching in general is so poor.  Don't throw too many innings!  Don't bring him up too young!  Don't throw too many pitches!