2012 - Philadelphia Phillies, At Least Cole is Staying

[Munson]

They could resign Hamels and Victorino and still be in a posistion to compete again in 2014. They'll have a ton of money even with those guys under contract to sign one or two star caliber FA

[SD]

Victorino can walk, he's going to get overpaid and money to re-sign him can go elsewhere. Where are you getting this 'ton of money' from? If they re-sign Hamels they only have a little wiggle room to stay under the luxury tax. Blanton/Vic and a few minor deals come off the books but it's not enough to sign a star player.

This is where Amaro needs to prove he's a good GM. Anyone can take over a world series team with a deep farm system and a high payroll and make them contend, now rebuilding or retooling a team is a differen story. He needs to decide which path he wants to chose and go from there. I doubt they trade their veterans for prospects because they still have a few key pieces in place, have other key pieces they can't move, and have flexibility salary wise because of the fan support.

[ice grillin you]

it depends if they wake up and realize what they have

if amaro breaks up the band in july and trades victorino, pence, hamels, etc, they can get some very good major league ready young talent. you call up brown, give him a shot. you play those guys and wait out the 2013 contracts, and by 2014 you should have something.

in fact if they do this 2013 should be an exciting year. it wouldnt be a title year, but it  could be the start of something.

they arent getting young major league ready talent in trades...no one dooes that....they will get prospects who in three or so years are hopefully major league ready....you cant rebuild and sign big free agents at the same time in baseball....you have to have a foundation of your own prospects who have proven to be players in the majors then you can add a piece here or there via trade or free agency to put your team over the top...but to get to that point you have to go thru many years of struggling

thats kind of where the nationals were last and this year....but they went thru five years of garbage to get to this point

you also have to be incredibly lucky to have multiple players from your own system become major league players and thats rare...phillies struck gold with grit jimmy burrell heidi and choke....the chances of something like that happening twice in a decade is virtually impossible

what the phillies should have done is add big time talent like they did with halladay and lee back in 2006 when their nucelus was in their prime....instead they waited till they all got old at once...had they not waited so long to complement their home grown talent with outside talent they have won two or three titles

[Munson]

Victorino can walk, he's going to get overpaid and money to re-sign him can go elsewhere. Where are you getting this 'ton of money' from? If they re-sign Hamels they only have a little wiggle room to stay under the luxury tax. Blanton/Vic and a few minor deals come off the books but it's not enough to sign a star player.

This is where Amaro needs to prove he's a good GM. Anyone can take over a world series team with a deep farm system and a high payroll and make them contend, now rebuilding or retooling a team is a differen story. He needs to decide which path he wants to chose and go from there. I doubt they trade their veterans for prospects because they still have a few key pieces in place, have other key pieces they can't move, and have flexibility salary wise because of the fan support.

After the 2013 season, before 2014, the luxury tax goes up to 189 million. In addition to that, Utley's 15 mil comes off the books and now with Halladay's injury chances are his option won't vest and that's another 20 million off the books.

As of right now they're officially on the hook for 74 million in 2014. Add in say 23 mil for Hamels and 11-12 for Victorino and you're only at 109 mil or so with 80 million in space before the luxury tax. And as of right now, after Hamels/Vic/Maybe pence, the only other guy they have an urgent need to sign is Chooch. Everyone else can and probably will get their walking papers after 2013 when their contracts are up.

[MDS]

bla bla white people speak

lol yea no one ever gets AAA prospects in trades. even if they get an AA prospect, it still allows them to put things in motion for 2014, which should be the goal. they have 180 mil to spend, they arent going to be a second division club for an extended period of time unless they put themselves there, which is possible if they piss away money on hawaiin dumbasses, gawky right fielders who belong in texas and $20 million more on a pitcher.

[BigEd76]

Victorino can walk, he's going to get overpaid and money to re-sign him can go elsewhere.

He won't get anywhere near what Hamilton or Bourn are about to get, but the HOF Brown switch to center makes me think he's a goner anyway

[Munson]

I honestly think I'd rather them resign Vic over Pence if it's a choice between the two...Vic's defense is better and he's stealing bases again. And he'll probably be cheaper.

[Rome]

When the Phillies next tv contract is signed they'll never have to worry about payroll again.  Ever.

The worrisome issue isn't their payroll, though.  It's the fact that they have almost nothing in the minor leagues.  Sure, they have pitching coming up, but no position players.  The core of the '08 team was almost entirely homegrown. 

1. Howard
2. Utley
3. Rollins
4. Chooch
5. Burrell

All home grown.

Hell, you could conceivably add Victorino & Werth into that list considering they were both castoffs from other clubs and were primarily developed in the system.

Is there a single position player in the minors right now that could be anywhere close to any of them?  I don't know... maybe there is.

The bottom line is you can't keep buying other teams' pieces and hope for championships to occur.  They have to get back to developing their own talent and occasionally sprinkling in the odd free agent here and there.  It's just that simple.

[MDS]

jim thome is batting 4th tonight

abort. team. now.

[MDS]

yoooo homers

rev up the playoffs train. chooo chooo

[SD]

Blanton sucks

[MDS]

but he could get the win tonight

defend this, old people

[PhillyPhreak54]

The beat writers on Twitter with The Wire references and quotes made to fit Phillies players are out of control. Even Jim Salisbury is doing it.

[MDS]

a well deserved win for joe blanton

[PhillyPhreak54]

Sabremetric Todd at it again.