Rest of Baseball 2010

[Sgt PSN]

Yeah, I'm sure there had to be some games at the Vet in the late 90's that had awful attendance for a weeknight game, especially if it was against a less than attractive opponent.   From 2000-06, the Phils were a .500ish team, so they weren't exactly horrible enough to drive crowds away.  And attendance probably got a little extra nudge in 03 during the Vet's final season and then a huge boost in 04 when CBP opened. 

Of course, now that they've got a great stadium and a great team on the field, last night was their 59th consecutive sell out.   

[SunMo]

haha, wow.

Hanley Ramirez won't apologize to Florida Marlins teammates, lost "little bit" of respect for manager

by Joe Capozzi

Here's the latest on the Hanley saga...

Wes Helms, Florida's veteran clubhouse leader, says Hanley Ramirez needs to apologize to his teammates for dogging it on a play last night. Hanley told reporters he has no plans to apologize.

But Ramirez said he is angry about being benched. And he has lost some respect for manager Fredi Gonzalez.

"It's his team. He does whatever he (expletive) wants," Ramirez said. "There's nothing I can do about it. It's brutal."

Asked about his ankle, he said: "That's OK. He doesn't understand that. He never played in the big leagues."

Some other highlights from this morning.

Do you want some time to get past it?
"For what?"

To talk to Fredi.
"Who's that?"

Your manager.
"Oh yeah? I'm just gonna play the game..."

Did you lose respect for Fredi?
"A little bit. We got 24 more guys out there. Hopefully they can do the same things I do. They're wearing the Marlins uniform.''

Do you plan to apologize to the team?
"To who?"

One of your teammates suggested an apology might be good if you did that.
"Do what?"

Apologize.
"For what?"

They thought that you were dogging it chasing that ball.
"We got a lot of people dogging it after ground balls. They don't apologize.''

Are you playing today?
"I don't think so. I don't know when I'm going to be back on the field.''

You feel you're healthy enough to play today?
"No."

Mentally or physically?
"Both."

I don't think we've ever seen you this angry before.
"It has happened a couple of times. It's been under the table so I know when I'm angry.

Jimmy Rollins got benched before. Does this show it can happen to anybody?
"It can happen to anybody."

What happened on the play?
"I wasn't trying to give up. That was the hardest I could go after the ball. "

You know how fast you are. Because people watching on TV might not think you were going as fast as you could have.
"That's fine. I can't control what you can think about that. I can only control what I can do on the field. I know some people are gonna think I gave up, some people will think he was a little bit hurt."

Is it this one incident or are the several incidents through the years?
"A couple, a couple."

Do you respect Fredi?
"I respect everybody. But I don't know if I get the same respect back."

Does it hurt you to hear some of the things he said?
"I haven't heard anything but I got a couple of phone calls they told me. It's fine. I don't want to hear what he says ... Hopefully, I keep talking to my kids. They don't keep me down. I'll forget this and go forward."

Another view

Here's what clubhouse leader Wes Helms said....

Helms has never seen a player dog it like that. He said Hanley said nothing to anyone on the team after he was taken out of the game.

"Everybody is entitled to have a bad day, no matter who you are. Everybody has a bad day. But I don't think a bad day comes from not hustling. That can't be stood for. When you're having a bad day, you can still hustle.

"To just flat-out not hustle, that's one of the things, I can't cope with that. That's one of my pet peeves. I can't stand two things in baseball: Guys who don't hustle and guys who don't work. We're trying to go to the World Series here. We've got to have all 25 guys on the same path.

"I can't overlook it. I know people say that's just the way he is. But you know what? That's not the way it is. That's not the way the game's supposed to be played. And that's what we want from Hanley.

"We want him to be that guy that goes out there everyday and we can sit back and says that's who he is – he's the one who goes out there everyday and busts his but and does anything he can for this team. That right there will earn the respect of not only his teammates but everybody in the league."

Does he have to come in here and apologize to everybody?

"It would be good. I know I would. It would be good to hear it from him.

"I was in Atlanta when the (John) Rocker thing went on. He was made to do the apology , but when he apologized to the whole team and held a 30-minute meeting, it gives you a little sense of easement. Kind of puts it to rest a little bit. Because right now when you don't hear that, there's still anger built up inside of you.

"One of the best things to cure anybody is to talk about it. It would be nice. It would be."

[rjs246]

Get.

[ice grillin you]

[SunMo]

wow, that's awful

[ice grillin you]

one of the worst things ive ever seen

[rjs246]

Holy shtein.

[Sgt PSN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR9-l6-DJ10&feature=player_embedded

[BigEd76]

video of the Hanley play that got him benched


and Jason Donald made his debut for Cleveland today, hitting 9th behind Marson...

[ice grillin you]

i was reading that if johnny damon gets to 3000 hits (which is very possible) he would be the only player in mlb history to have

3000 hits
500 2b
100 3b
250 hr
400 sb

which brings up the hof question...in no way shape or form do i think hes a hof'er but how do you keep him out at that point

[Rome]

You argued like a little girl about Chipper Jones being a HOF player but you don't think a guy with those stats should be one.

Awesome.

[ice grillin you]

when did i argue about chipper jones being in the hall of fame...i dont remember that at all

but he should definitely be in over damon...not only does he pass the look test as a hall of famer but his position puts him in...when you are one of the best ever at a particular position it helps out greatly

[Sgt PSN]

i was reading that if johnny damon gets to 3000 hits (which is very possible) he would be the only player in mlb history to have

3000 hits
500 2b
100 3b
250 hr
400 sb

which brings up the hof question...in no way shape or form do i think hes a hof'er but how do you keep him out at that point

I wouldn't say it's "very possible" for Damon to get to 3000 hits.  I'd say he has an outside shot at best.  He's 36 years old (will be 37 later this year) and currently has 2464 hits, so he still need a little more than 500 to get to 3000.  He's only had 200+ hits in a season once in his career and that was all the way back in 2000 with KC.  Also, hasn't had more than 170 hits in a season since 2005 and hasn't played more than 150 games in a season since 2004.  In fact, since 2005 he's averaging 159 hits per year.  At that pace, it would take him about 3.5 years to get to 3000, at which point he would be 40 years old.  And given the decline in production over the last 4 years, it's safe to assume that there would only be more of a drop off over the next 4 as well.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say that Damon does get to 3000.  Is he HOF material?  In my opinion, no.  It's hard to overlook those numbers, but imo, his stats are more of a product of longevity rather than skill.  Damon is a fine player, but during his 15 years the bigs, he's only been to 2 AS games and has never led the league in any of the Triple Crown caterogies (Although in 2000 he did lead the league in Runs and Stolen Bases).  Even his best hitting year in 2000 (.327 BA) was only good enough for 10th best in the AL (although a few years later he did finish 4th with a signifcantly lower BA).  In his prime, he was a good CF but not great.  Most importantly (IMO) he's never been an MVP caliber player.  In 2005 he finished 13th with 3% of the vote and that was the highest of his career (Only 2 other times did he receive any votes at all).

In short, he's been a very good player throughout his career than damn near every team would love having on their roster, but not quite worthy of the HOF.     

[Rome]

You guys are too much.  3,000 hits = Hall of Fame, period.

We're not talking about inflated power numbers.  We're talking about base hits which are just as hard to come by in this era as they have been over the past 100 years.

[Sgt PSN]

3000 hits over what would amount to be about a 19 year career = 158 hits per year.  Not overly impressive.  He's got a .288 career BA and only cracks the top 100 all time in Doubles, Triples and Stolen Bases and doesn't make the top 50 all time in any category except facial hair. 

Also, assuming it takes him about 4 more years to get there, that's approximately 2200 more at bats which would give him roughly 10,700 career at bats.  Only Rickey Henderson and Cal Ripken Jr would have taken more at bats to get 3000 hits and neither one of them needed to reach 3000 hits in order to go to the HOF. 

HOF is for the best players of all time and Damon isn't even among the best players of his era.  His lack of being a statistical leader in any single category over a sustained period of time, AS appearances or MVP consideration speaks volumes about how he's viewed in comparison to his peers. 

Like I said, good player who everyone wants on their team, but not great.  If there was a "Hall of Almost HOF Worthy" then Johnny Damon would be 1st ballot.