2009 Phillies Offseason Thread

[ice grillin you]

if they did this for prospects and there isnt anyone anywhere that thinks or has said they did then it makes it a travesty of a trade

just from an on paper standpoint it becomes inexcusable that they got that garabge from seattle instead of going for a infinitely better chance at a world series...

if it was for money reasons its bad if it was to get two ok minor leaguers then amaro should be fired immediately and it becomes worse than the pronger trade

[Eagles_Legendz]

Actually Stark and Kurkijan said it was about prospects yesterday.  I haven't seen any legitimate source that said it was just about $, have you?

It's really simple.  Once they decided they were getting Halladay they wanted to get prospects back while shedding salary.  Lee was the easiest option to accomplish those two things.  Does it mean it was the right move?  No, but that's how they were thinking and I don't think anyone would have taken the two picks over 3 prospects who have done well so far in the minors.  That being said, as I stated before, I would have sucked it up to be the best team in baseball this year and rolled the dice with the picks.

[Eagles_Legendz]

I don't think anyone here last year wouldn't have done a Drabek+Taylor+D'Arnaud for Halladay trade, especially knowing Halladay would sign an extension for 4 more years.

You set that aside and the other pieces that moved were:
Carrasco, Knapp, Marson, and Donald for Francisco, Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez.

[BigEd76]

Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage.  You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...

[PhillyGirl]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/12661068/phillies-win-busy-day-with-deal-to-land-halladay

[ice grillin you]

Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage.  You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...

they are less than what the phils gave for lee


and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen

[ice grillin you]

and murph wrote this in his daily news piece today....

Since the Phillies are trading Lee and his $9 million salary to the Mariners to help accommodate Halladay's salary, it is worth noting that the one thing standing in the way of 1 year of Halladay-Lee-Hamels might have been the 2-year contract that Jamie Moyer signed last offseason that guarantees him $8 million this season.

[MDS]

Scouts we surveyed were split on whether the prospects exiting (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud) have a higher ceiling than the prospects arriving (Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez). But the whole group is "a bunch of legit prospects," said one NL scout. "They're not just throwing in a bunch of names to make this look good."

So while the Phillies still have bullpen issues to address, "I like this deal a lot for the Phillies, long-term and short-term," said an AL scout. "They got the best pitcher in the game right now. And they got a couple of guys from Seattle [Aumont and Gillies] I'm surprised they could get."

from stark

so....with all the people you talked to igy and all the scouting youve done, do you have a counter?

i hate it when loud mouth idiot fans act like they know anything about minor leagues. no ones anything. its a farging guesswork game.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Please igy, like you know that Carrasco, Knapp, Donald, and Marson have a brighter future than Gillies, Aumont, and Ramirez.

No one will be able to assess that for a few years, and to say you have any greater idea than anyone else here is a blatant lie.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage.  You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...

they are less than what the phils gave for lee


and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4746360

Stark said this in his article:

"But if this were just about 2010, the Phillies probably wouldn't make this trade. Or they'd make the Halladay deal, keep Lee, clear payroll space by unloading Joe Blanton and unleash both Cy Youngs on the world.

Except that wasn't their MO. This was about extending their window of NL dominance as long as possible, not for one brief run at glory.

If they'd stood pat, Lee almost certainly would have headed off next winter to hit the free-agent lottery. And they'd most likely have gotten outbid by the Yankees or Red Sox on Halladay. So without either Lee or Halladay, the Phillies very conceivably might have had to blow up their team and retool."


As I said before.  If it was about $, they would have dumped Blanton.  It really isn't hard to figure out.  If you disagree with that, you're just being argumentative.

[Eagles_Legendz]

And this is from Ken Rosenthal:

"While the Phillies will keep their No. 1 prospect, outfielder Domonic
Brown, their farm system would need years to recover if they lost that
many young players without receiving any in return.

That's the other reason why the Phillies need to trade Lee to get
Halladay -– they need the three prospects coming back from the Mariners.

One, sources say, is right-hander Phillippe Aumont, the Mariners' No.
3 prospect a year ago according to Baseball America. Another is
outfielder Tyson Gillies, the No. 20 prospect. The third reportedly is
right-hander Juan Ramirez, who was No. 5. "

I think everyone is pretty much in agreement that the Phillies would have needed to shed salary (or at least would have shed salary regardless of their need) after trading Halladay.  Rosenthal details this in his article.  The difference is Lee was the only movable player who could recoup some value in prospects, hence the reason for the deal.  Saves the money and gets the prospects back in one move.

[ice grillin you]

Scouts we surveyed were split on whether the prospects exiting (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor and Travis d'Arnaud) have a higher ceiling than the prospects arriving (Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and J.C. Ramirez). But the whole group is "a bunch of legit prospects," said one NL scout. "They're not just throwing in a bunch of names to make this look good."

So while the Phillies still have bullpen issues to address, "I like this deal a lot for the Phillies, long-term and short-term," said an AL scout. "They got the best pitcher in the game right now. And they got a couple of guys from Seattle [Aumont and Gillies] I'm surprised they could get."

from stark

so....with all the people you talked to igy and all the scouting youve done, do you have a counter?

i hate it when loud mouth idiot fans act like they know anything about minor leagues. no ones anything. its a farging guesswork game.

knapp donald carrasco marson were "legit" prospects...and we all know how bad the phils raped cleveland...now the phils had the same thing done to them but its a great deal...homer haven is a wonderful place

[BigEd76]

supposedly one of the players in the deal failed his physical.  press conference is now tomorrow

[ice grillin you]

Aumont and Gillies aren't garbage.  You're acting like we traded for Bud Smith, Nelson Figueroa and CJ Henry...

they are less than what the phils gave for lee


and stark was on the scott van pelt show yesetrday saying money was definitely the main factor in getting rid of lee...both because of their strict 140 number and because they still want to have money to upgrade the pen

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4746360

Stark said this in his article:

"But if this were just about 2010, the Phillies probably wouldn't make this trade. Or they'd make the Halladay deal, keep Lee, clear payroll space by unloading Joe Blanton and unleash both Cy Youngs on the world.

Except that wasn't their MO. This was about extending their window of NL dominance as long as possible, not for one brief run at glory.

If they'd stood pat, Lee almost certainly would have headed off next winter to hit the free-agent lottery. And they'd most likely have gotten outbid by the Yankees or Red Sox on Halladay. So without either Lee or Halladay, the Phillies very conceivably might have had to blow up their team and retool."

As I said before.  If it was about $, they would have dumped Blanton.  It really isn't hard to figure out.  If you disagree with that, you're just being argumentative.

this makes no sense...no one anywhere is suggesting they should have done nothing...a lot of people are saying they should have kept lee AND traded for halladay

think about what youre saying...youre trying to say that the phillies would not have traded for halladay if they couldnt have gotten gillies and aumont

that is so ridiculous it cant even be taken seriously

[Eagles_Legendz]

It's not really hard to comprehend igy: look at the overall scope of the players changing hands from the deadline last year and see if you'd do the deal.

They decided they'd get prospects back to restock the system instead of keeping Lee on a one year rental.  I think those prospects, by all accounts, are on a similar level to what they paid to get Lee.  Therefore, the overall deal is Drabek/Taylor/D'Arnaud for Francisco and Halladay + extension.