Health Care Reform thread

[Diomedes]

This issue is so massive and complicated that I have absolutely no grasp of the basics.  Obviously, we need to change the current system dramatically because it's grossly wasteful expensive unfair and flat out ineffective for many.  But how to change it is something I don't have any real opinion about.  I don't think the conservative refrain about trial lawyers is nearly as important as they say it is, but couldn't defend that position very smartly.

Here is a piece from today's NYTimes about Obama signalling that he might be willing to allow taxation of health benefits, despite campaigning against them.  Republican partisans will point and laugh at him, calling him a lying politician for the change, I'm sure.  Seems to me they ought to be cheering him when he comes around to something they advocate, but whatever.  I take this article as a signal that he's not a rigid ideologue, and will try to be pragmatic.  But of course, I support and admire the man, so there you go.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/us/politics/15health.html?_r=1&hp

One thing I'm clear on is that in a country as wealthy as ours, it's a categorical failure that we have 46 million or so uninsured people.  We've got to find a way to bring more people out of the elements and into shelter.  It's better for everyone.

[rjs246]

Two failures:

1. Massive amounts of uninsured people.
2. A huge % of our national budget.

It's the definition of inefficient.

[Diomedes]

Regarding the idea of taxing health benefits, I think I agree with the idea as part of the solution.

[Butchers Bill]

You are right Dio...this is a massively complicated problem, without a feasible solution.  The government cannot possibly add yet another entitlement program as its already spent itself into oblivion.  The private sector has clearly failed because you have people getting paid tens of millions of dollars to limit the care they are responsible for approving. 

Perhaps the best course of action is to outsource our healthcare to India like we do everything else.  I watched a show not too long ago where uninsured Americans we going to India to get operations (like knee, eye, gall bladder, etc.) that would cost 10k here, but only 1-2k there.

[Rome]

I saw the same program.  Astounding that you can basically get a two week vacation flying first class, get the operation, and then recuperate in a five star resort all for the same price that a doctor would charge for a basic operation in the states.

BTW: I pay a staggering amount of money to insure my daughter via my job.  Sure, the insurance program is amazing and all, but still, it costs roughly 10% of my salary to pay for insurance just for my child.  Something is wrong with that equation.

[Geowhizzer]

I saw the same program.  Astounding that you can basically get a two week vacation flying first class, get the operation, and then recuperate in a five star resort all for the same price that a doctor would charge for a basic operation in the states.

BTW: I pay a staggering amount of money to insure my daughter via my job.  Sure, the insurance program is amazing and all, but still, it costs roughly 10% of my salary to pay for insurance just for my child.  Something is wrong with that equation.

Mine increased $250 per month for the same coverage this year. 

[ATV]

I watched a show not too long ago where uninsured Americans we going to India to get operations (like knee, eye, gall bladder, etc.) that would cost 10k here, but only 1-2k there.

I saw the same program. I think it was a few years ago. Wasn't it in Indonesia though? Else India has caught on to the same thing.

I don't like how we have to pay $40 for the very same medicine that you can buy for $1.50 in Mexico or Canada.

[Rome]

Ask a pharma rep and he'll tell you we have to pay more because American drug companies spend more in r & d than all the other drug companies in the world combined.

The real answer is because pharma companies spend millions on political candidates who do their whoring for them in Washington.

[Diomedes]

Not to mention the money they spend on ad campaigns.

I'm looking forward to MMH's comments in this thread.  He knows more than I do about this stuff.

[rjs246]

You are right Dio...this is a massively complicated problem, without a feasible solution.  The government cannot possibly add yet another entitlement program as its already spent itself into oblivion.  The private sector has clearly failed because you have people getting paid tens of millions of dollars to limit the care they are responsible for approving. 

Perhaps the best course of action is to outsource our healthcare to India like we do everything else.  I watched a show not too long ago where uninsured Americans we going to India to get operations (like knee, eye, gall bladder, etc.) that would cost 10k here, but only 1-2k there.

I also know basically nothing about how to solve this problem, but I refuse to believe that there is no feasible solution. Almost every modernized country on the planet has socialized healthcare that is WAY less expensive than what we're currently spending. That doesn't say 'impossible' to me.

[Butchers Bill]

I also know basically nothing about how to solve this problem, but I refuse to believe that there is no feasible solution. Almost every modernized country on the planet has socialized healthcare that is WAY less expensive than what we're currently spending. That doesn't say 'impossible' to me.

Not feasible in the US.  We spend over $600 billion a year on "defense" and the closest country after us is China at about $200 billion.  Try to trim the defense budget makes you a coward, anti-American, or whatever, and makes you unelectable.  Therefore very few will vote for such a person.

Socialism to the uneducated American (and there are a lot of them) is equal to Communism.  Again, makes you unelectable.

With the current financial crisis and credit so tight the US will very likely be unable to borrow any more money which means that (gasp!) we will actually have to balance our budget.  Heathcare for all will add at least $500 billion more to the Federal budget.  Where is that money going to come from?

I am actually for a single payer system similar to Canada or Britain I just don't see our politicians having the will or courage to do something about the current mess.

[Phanatic]

In the History of the United states there has only been a balanced budget once and that was closer to the revolution. There will always be a national debt. It's just a matter of what that debt is compared to GDP. Right now it's looking like it might end up being 60% and that's a bit scary.

[Butchers Bill]

In the History of the United states there has only been a balanced budget once and that was closer to the revolution.

Where did you get that idea?  The US has had debt since inception except for one brief period under President Jackson, but historically has balanced the budget several times.

[rjs246]

Not feasible in the US.  We spend over $600 billion a year on "defense" and the closest country after us is China at about $200 billion.  Try to trim the defense budget makes you a coward, anti-American, or whatever, and makes you unelectable.  Therefore very few will vote for such a person.

Socialism to the uneducated American (and there are a lot of them) is equal to Communism.  Again, makes you unelectable.

Incredibly accurate and sad commentary on our population.

[Rome]

America does one thing very well and that's export brutal and agonizing death on a massive scale.

USA!