Health Care Reform thread

[phattymatty]

the teabaggers were out in full force here in dc this weekend.  what a bunch of freaks.

[Sgt PSN]

i'm actually in favor of illegals getting free health care.  i can't have my yard guy getting sick. 

[shorebird]

Nice

[MDS]

where is the rebate check all the blacks got when they voted for obama

[Munson]

........still waitin'.......

........and no, nobody sounds like a moron when they say that they don't want government money, OUR money, paying the bill for illegals health care just because someone like you has the ridiculous notion that everyone will be subject to a background check. Hell, they're getting it now, from medicaid and medicare. Do you actually believe that there will be background checks done on every single person who is going to get national health care??

......and I'm still waitin' for somebody to tell me how it's not going to increase the deficit.

I already said this once, but I'll say it again...

We spent 1 trillion dollars in Iraq from 2001-2010....the current estimations of how much nationalized heath care is going to cost from 2010-2019 is also 1 trillion dollars. If Obama is planning on not funneling money into a giant hole in the middle of the asian desert, that will certainly help off put the costs.

No one here is arguing that it's going to cost an ass load of money....but we already spend 16% of our GDP on health care, which is 4 percentage points higher than the closest to us (France), and that's even more ridiculous to think about when you think that our GDP as recently as 2005 was one and a half times higher then the next closest country's GDP (China). Obviously China has caught up, but I can tell you that France sure as hell hasn't. The fact that we spend THAT much money on health care and can't even crack the top 30 or cover all of our citizens is BS, so if we're going to be spending that much on health care, might as well take the monopoly away from the greed driven CEOs of the insurance companies, who care more about money then the people they're supposed to be helping, and start taking care of our own people. ALL of our own people.

The fact that illegals scam and cheat their way through the current system isn't a reason/excuse not to implement a new system...which, for all you know, may actually BE better at weeding out the illegals.

[shorebird]

Look, the potus stood up in front of congress and the American people, and said that health care won't raise the deficit. Does he really believe that? I don't. Is he knowingly lying? Not that it hasn't happened before, but all the people who fall at his feet and hang on his every word, even after he says something so unbelieveable make me shake my head. And if he is knowingly lying, that doesn't say much for what he thinks of all his little sheeple out there.

I'd rather he say something like, "yeah, it's going to raise the deficit, but if you want health care for everyone, it's the only way to get it done."

[Diomedes]

Munron making sense, nice.

[Rome]

I think the point was it won't raise the deficit in the long run.  In the short term it might because overhauling a massive system like U.S. health care is a monumental task, but streamlining it and making it more cost effective will almost certainly put a dent in the deficit.

And I agree with Dio... butchered English aside, Munson made some excellent points there.

[ice grillin you]

Munron making sense, nice.

no chance that wasnt a copy and paste

[shorebird]

Yeah, his post made sense. But it was more a statement and doesn't really answer all the questions about health care reform. There are a lot of reasons why the bill should be overhauled other than the one reason that illegals might be able to scam their way around not being able to get covered. And really, if you take the money spent on Iraq and spend it on health care, you're still spending it, and probably a lot more. How does that not raise the deficit?

Also, doesn't it bother anyone here that the Potus is flat out lying to us, or that he really is in deep enough that he believes the bill won't raise the deficit?? Or, is it a fact that the Obama flock just doesn't care either way?

[rjs246]

First of all, he isn't lying. Or if he is we have no way of knowing it so stop just stating that he's lying as though it's some sort of indisputable fact.

Second, Americans are very farging used to being lied to by the President at this point. If it does turn out that he's lying it wouldn't exactly be groundbreaking.

[Munson]

Yeah, his post made sense. But it was more a statement and doesn't really answer all the questions about health care reform. There are a lot of reasons why the bill should be overhauled other than the one reason that illegals might be able to scam their way around not being able to get covered. And really, if you take the money spent on Iraq and spend it on health care, you're still spending it, and probably a lot more. How does that not raise the deficit?

Also, doesn't it bother anyone here that the Potus is flat out lying to us, or that he really is in deep enough that he believes the bill won't raise the deficit?? Or, is it a fact that the Obama flock just doesn't care either way?

1. THe point is that the money would be getting spent on something MUCH more useful to the American people....it's not always about how much money is being spent, it's about what it's being spent on.

2. To answer that question, inflation would be a simple answer. 1 trillion dollars from 2001-2010 is not the same as 1 trillion dollars from 2010-2019.

[shorebird]

First of all, he isn't lying. Or if he is we have no way of knowing it so stop just stating that he's lying as though it's some sort of indisputable fact.

First of all, I never said it was some kind of indisputable fact, I said it could be either one thing or the other, so you stop. I'm saying, as all of you over and over again miss the point, that there is no way in hell this bill doesn't raise the deficit, so why would he state that it won't?

Second, Americans are very farging used to being lied to by the President at this point. If it does turn out that he's lying it wouldn't exactly be groundbreaking.

Used to it?!? Yeah right, when Clinton, or Obama lies to the American people, so what? No big deal. When Bush did it Dems thought he should have been strung up. So did I, come to think of it. Anyway, I don't know if it's worse that he's lying or that he might actually believe it, or that he expects the American people to believe it.

[shorebird]

Yeah, his post made sense. But it was more a statement and doesn't really answer all the questions about health care reform. There are a lot of reasons why the bill should be overhauled other than the one reason that illegals might be able to scam their way around not being able to get covered. And really, if you take the money spent on Iraq and spend it on health care, you're still spending it, and probably a lot more. How does that not raise the deficit?

Also, doesn't it bother anyone here that the Potus is flat out lying to us, or that he really is in deep enough that he believes the bill won't raise the deficit?? Or, is it a fact that the Obama flock just doesn't care either way?

1. THe point is that the money would be getting spent on something MUCH more useful to the American people....it's not always about how much money is being spent, it's about what it's being spent on.

2. To answer that question, inflation would be a simple answer. 1 trillion dollars from 2001-2010 is not the same as 1 trillion dollars from 2010-2019.

True dat, but when it comes to trying to explain it or get the American people behind it, don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

[rjs246]

I'm saying, as all of you over and over again miss the point, that there is no way in hell this bill doesn't raise the deficit, so why would he state that it won't?

He's actually pointed out several ways that the bill will ideally not raise the deficit. The bill itself may cost money in some places but it is designed to lower costs in others. You grasp that right?

It really isn't that complex and I'm a little shocked that you seem to be incapable of recognizing that part of the point is to lower costs in certain areas to cover the extra expenidture in other areas.