Home Improvements

[SunMo]

so a bit of an update on my flooring.  my wife has become friends with a woman at her work and we hung out last friday and this lady's husband does home construction and once they (husband and wife) heard we wanted to do flooring they both jumped on it were all about helping us put it in.  so i really lucked out there because this guy said he does it all the time.

where it gets interesting is that he's really down on laminate and is pushing either engineered hardwood or hardwood.  obviously hardwood is better and lasts longer, but we don't want to be at our house more than 5-7 more years so I'm not sure I care to spend the money.  I can get hardwood for around what my budget is because this guy hooked me up with builddirect.com which has great flooring prices compared to places like Lowes or Home Depot.  the problem is once you start looking at hardwood it's hard to settle on laminate because suddenly laminate looks cheap compared to the hardwood.

i'm leaning toward engineered hardwood which is "a product made up of a core of hardwood, plywood or HDF and a top layer of hardwood veneer that is glued on the top surface of the core and is available in almost any hardwood species. The product thus has the natural characteristics of the selected wood species as opposed to a photographic layer. The "engineered" product has been designed to provide greater stability, particularly where moisture or heat pose problems for solid hardwood floors."  The pricing on that is about 60% that of solid hardwood.

Has anybody ever installed engineered hardwood?  Any thoughts or issues?  Thanks.

[PhillyPhanInDC]

I have it throughout my house on the first floor. I have two small kids who beat the hell out of the house. After 7 years, it still looks great, and the only person who knows it's not actual hardwood are me, realtors, and contractors. It's made by a company called Bruce, and it all came from Home Depot.

[Diomedes]

The engineered stuff can boast being rail straight, flat, and true and it's very stable (meaning it doesn't move/change shape over time).

I'm wary of this dude saying he'll help you out, and then leaning on you to do it his way.  farg him.  Gou wanted to do laminate, you have a budget for laminate, there's nothing wrong with laminate for what you're talking about doing, etc.  Save the money, do a nice job putting down the laminate, move on.

that's my two cents

[PhillyPhreak54]

I don't know much about flooring since we don't sell that or decking...but I have flooring guys who buy their rough lumber from me and they said the engineered stuff is pretty good. The pricing estimate of 60% of the cost of the true hardwood is about right.

Especially now because hardwood lumber is getting very expensive (red oak, maple, alder are the three toughest right now).

I used to be able to sell southern red oak for $1.50ish a board foot and now it costs me over $2.00 to truck it in

[SunMo]

Thanks guys.  Dio, it wasn't like he was doing a hard sell against the laminate, he was just giving me his personal and professional opinion.  He has laminate in his house and he said if he could do it again he would use engineered.

The engineered my wife and i are looking at fits well into our budget, so if I can get a better product for the cost I had estimated then I'm happy to do it.

[Seabiscuit36]

Anyone here ever used Ipe lumber for outside projects?   

[PhillyPhreak54]

I sell some of it - not a whole lot - but whatcha wanna know?

You looking for decking?

[Seabiscuit36]

Yep. Decided against composite, too expensive and just to hot to walk on.   Standard treated lumber comes in around $3.00 per sq ft.  Seems the average price per sq ft is around $10.10-$10.50.  I'm just curious if IPE is as good as it seems as far as upkeep, and if i'll need too stain it every few years or if it'll have significant degradation like pressure treated pine. 

[PhillyPhreak54]

I don't do the decking - just the rough lumber. The guys I sell it to use it for outdoor kitchens and deck stair treads. However I believe the decking comes pre-treated. You'll also need to make sure you prime and seal the hell out of it. But as an outdoor product it is very good and looks a helluva lot better that pine (I hate pine. I always try to talk people out of pine).

All wood will degrade over time obviously, even teak. Its all about how you prep it. My boss was telling me that the ipe decking comes with a resin.

Pine is a softwood and ipe is a hardwood...if I recall correctly you're close to the water, right? So you'll have humidity to deal with. Those softwoods, even the pressure treated ones, will lend themselves more to warping and quicker warping than a hardwood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

The janka hardness on Ipe is 3510 compared to Southern Yellow Pine at 690.

Will the deck be covered?
Will it be exposed to water/salt water?

Like I said aesthetically the Ipe is leaps and bounds nicer than Pine.

If the deck will be uncovered and exposed to a lot of elements you'll probably want to go with pine because of the price difference. Because in 7yrs you'll likely need to replace/refurbish.

If you do decide to go SYP then see if you can get it KILN DRIED rather than air dried. Kiln drying removes a lot of moisture.

[Diomedes]

Anyone here ever used Ipe lumber for outside projects?   

Lots.  Too much to type it out.  I'll PM you my phone number.

[PhillyPhreak54]

What do you think of it, Dio?

Another hint is to try to find a lumber distributor up there and to stay away from the big box type stores. At least down here we're much cheaper than the big box places.

[Diomedes]

Built this little fence/screen last week.  16 feet long, 6' tall.  The posts are 2"x2" Ipe sticks trapping 5/4" x 4" cedar (STK) rails that run through all the posts.  The top cap is 5/4" x 6" Ipe.

I've made a bunch of fences using Ipe.  Also pergolas, decks, utility screens, mailbox stands, etc.

Here's a pool utility screen we did of similar design, but using 2 2"x4"s to build the posts, rather than four 2"x2"s.  Again, cedar rails and pickets, Ipe cap.  And for good measure, an Ipe 4"x4" post to serve as a towel tree near the pool.

[Sgt PSN]

Phreak passive-aggressively trying to score Dio's digits.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Haha I heard Dio plays hard to get.

The screen looks really good. Where do you buy the ipe?

[Sgt PSN]

Dio's a whore. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.