The coming financial crisis

[Phanatic]

The old USA has been owned by someone since 1776 outside of 2 years of temporary insanity under Andrew Jackson if that's the theory. Guess we've never truly been a country of our own then. Carry on.

[rjs246]

Phanatic injecting some rational thought into this whole Republican panic nonsense. Well done.

[rjs246]

There is no spoon.

[ice grillin you]

as long as you have the strongest military and 50 thousand nukes you will always be your own country

[ATV]

So the whole economical decline leading to Obama's presidency was largely an aberration?

Ok. Well then I'm glad that's over with.

[Phanatic]

We're paying off the debt from our fore fathers so why should our kids get a free pass. But really Andrew Jackson was the only president I think to pay of the national debt. Modern age? Carter had the best debt to GDP ratio at 32%. Financially the country was in the crapper then so I'm not sure what relevance the debt is as long as your not over 100% debt to the GDP. From LBJ to Carter the ratio was in the 30's as a percentage. Bush will have left us with the highest since the great depression projected at 68%.

During the great depression we were at 93%. So there is a precidence for increasing the debt to GDP ratio in tough fincancial times I suppose. As long as it can be I reduced in the out years.

Either way I attack the national debt premise as a true indicator. I think it is more of a reaction to what is going on then actually a cause...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

I've been drinking and think I'm really smart right now... Least till I wake up tomorrow morning and read this ish...

Jackson's Paying off the national debt in 1835...

On January 1, 1835, the United States paid off entirely its longstanding public debt.  For that year and the next the nation enjoyed debt-freedom, the only two years in its entire history when it held no obligation to creditors.

http://www.business.auburn.edu/~whittdo/THE%20ELIMINATION%20OF%20THE%20NATIONAL%20DEBT%20IN%201835.htm

I modified this somewhat and replied to my GOP senator who had sent me something related to the Tea Bagging thing that was going on this week.

[rjs246]

A very brief overview of our country's tax system with relation to the concept of a flat tax.

Note that we are exceptionally close to employing a flat tax already...

[ice grillin you]

a flat tax would be a tax increase for 98% of americans...would be a crush to the real estate industry....and charitable organizations all in one....but it makes for great soundbytes for politicians looking to win over intellectually lazy americans...

im not even a money guy and i know this...how hard is it to look up your tax rate...yet most americans are to stpuid or lazy to do it...arguing about getting rid of certain deductions or not...or debating the tax code in general is legit...but it has nothing to do with the merits of a flat tax

[rjs246]

My point was simply that compared to most developed countries, we already employ a fairly 'flat' tax structure.

Regardless, the tax code needs to be scrapped and rewritten. The fact that there are a million different taxes on a million different things and ways to avoid paying so many of them is more than a little ridiculous.

[ice grillin you]

well i guess i disagree that we are anywhere close to a flat tax

[rjs246]

8% 20% 20% 24% 28% is pretty friggin flat.

[Sgt PSN]

i have a pretty weak grasp on large scale economics.  hell, i can barely balance my check book.  so i'm probably asking a very uneducated question here, but when it comes to taxes, why isn't everyone just taxed the same percentage of their income rather than having all these different tax brackets?  

[rjs246]

Income tax is tiered, but every other tax (alcohol, cigarette, sales, property, etc) is the same for everyone.

That means that people with lower incomes pay a significantly higher % of their income on the 'other' taxes. As such, almost all western countries have a 'progressive' income tax that is tiered so that lower income people pay less while higher income people pay more in order to provide fairness.

The problem is that most people only think about income taxes when the topic comes up. They completely ignore the fact that the government brings in money from all sorts of other taxes that are not so fairly distributed.

[Seabiscuit36]

Tax my weed

[ice grillin you]

8% 20% 20% 24% 28% is pretty friggin flat.

those are tax brackets...to have a true flat tax you would have to eliminate all deductions and write offs...bascially youd have to tear up the entire united states tax code