Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Diomedes]

Russia won WWII.

[Tomahawk]

maybe its me but i cant be proud winning a war by turning a major city into the contents of an ash tray

Two cities...because we couldn't settle for anything less than a complete unconditional surrender. Love-ish my country; hate my countrymen

[Rome]

maybe its me but i cant be proud winning a war by turning a major city into the contents of an ash tray

um, would you be happier if we'd lost?

in both of those instances an aggressor or aggressors started it and we finished it.  ask the chinese if the japanese didn't get precisely what was coming to them.  they were ruthless barbarians and their actions were the epitome of evil.  same goes for the germans.

ps... i agree that the idiot wearing that awful shirt should be euthanized.   

[Tomahawk]

You do realize that the choice wasn't between losing and dropping nukes...America demanded an unconditional surrender, refusing to negotiate for peace at any other level.

[Rome]

bullshtein.  would you have rather lost a million or more american soliders and seamen attempting to invade japan?  japan was not going to surrender, period.  they were in it to the last man, woman and child.  the only way to get them to stop was by nuking their asses.   was it an act of horrific barbarism?  absolutely.  was it a necessity at the time?  i believe it was and so do most military historians.

[Tomahawk]

Actual military historians or the propaganda sold to us in American History textbooks?

[Rome]

http://www.nanking-massacre.com/

pure farging evil.  and that's just one instance of documented atrocities committed by the empire of japan.

[Diomedes]

The bomb might not have been necessary, but we'll never know.  It f'n worked, that's for sure.  So on the Pacific front, I suppose America can beat its chest and talk tough about how the U.S. "finished it."

But I must repeat:  In Europe, Russia won WWII.  Without Russia, all of Europe would have fallen to Hitler no matter what we did.

[ice grillin you]

Actual military historians or the propaganda sold to us in American History textbooks?

yeah god forbid we harm americas sterling reputation on such things.....gold standard

[Munson]

The bomb might not have been necessary, but we'll never know.  It f'n worked, that's for sure.  So on the Pacific front, I suppose America can beat its chest and talk tough about how the U.S. "finished it."

But I must repeat:  In Europe, Russia won WWII.  Without Russia, all of Europe would have fallen to Hitler no matter what we did.

Well, more accurately, Russian winter won WWII...because Hitler was beating the ever loving shtein out of Russia until the winter came.

He's an idiot for invading them, and then delaying it when he did.

[Diomedes]

Winter helped, but had Hitler not run up against an evil as great as his own--the only real difference between the two men was Hitler's expansionism and pathological hatred of Jews--the Russian winter would have suffered it's first defeat.  Stalin was, simply, willing to send millions more to their deaths than an American president could have even imagined, nevermind committed to do.  [Well, Grant might have been able to imagine it, but I doubt he'd have had the political power to do it in this fantasy comparison). 

It was the Russian people who defeated Germany, not the winter.

[Diomedes]

And either way you look at it, had Germany left Russia alone...were the Americans willing to lose ten twenty times what they did to stop them?

I'll answer that for you:  no chance until German boots land on our beaches.

edit:  I looked up figures.

[Seabiscuit36]

The First bomb may have been necessary(it's been highly debated as Japan's defenses and will was waning), the second one was basically pulling your dick out and putting it on the table.  It was more a statement to the russians, and the rest of the world. 

Dio is right about Russia.  Germany could in no way win a war on two fronts.  When america got involved, Russia had been fighting for two years, and had inflicted mass casualties on the eastern front

[Diomedes]

I don't know what it is about this subject, but I get a little riled when I hear people beating their chests over how America won the second world war.  It's just not true.  The U.S. played a principal role, and without our involvement, who knows how it would have turned out.  But this much is clear:  Russia broke Germany's back, not us, not the British, not the French, not all the European allies combined.  Russia.

[Munson]

Winter helped, but had Hitler not run up against an evil as great as his own--the only real difference between the two men was Hitler's expansionism and pathological hatred of Jews--the Russian winter would have suffered it's first defeat.  Stalin was, simply, willing to send millions more to their deaths than an American president could have even imagined, nevermind committed to do.  [Well, Grant might have been able to imagine it, but I doubt he'd have had the political power to do it in this fantasy comparison). 

It was the Russian people who defeated Germany, not the winter.

Yeah I'll give you that...Russia was able and willing to just throw massive amounts of bodies at the Germans to stop them. The amount of effort that went into defending Stalingrad is still amazing to read.

I think you gotta give the English some credit though....they were able to hold out and prevent Hitler from accomplishing Operation Sea Lion. Had they fallen, Hitler could have turned his entire attention and army towards Russia. Might have been a different outcome.