Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[Sgt PSN]

Why do we have term limits for president but not congress?  I'm not asking a historical question.  I'm asking why we think it's a good idea for the President but not for the people who actually make the laws?

my guess is that it was designed that way with the thought that if senators and representatives are doing a good job, then they should continue to be eligible for re-election so they can continue their work.  the major flaw behind this is that in the 1700's there were no corporations or special interest groups out there that could literally buy elections and influence the gov't decisions.

and i'm almost certain that the reason that a president has a 2 term limit is because they didn't want to even give the appearance of a monarchy by allowing 1 person to remain in office for an extended period of time. 

[rjs246]

Bingo.

[Sgt PSN]

i just realized that dio wasn't asking a historical question and was actually wondering why the term limit system is still relevant today. 

RIF

but i actually believe both to still be legit reasons for presidential term limits and a lack there of for congress.  would you want someone like bush to have the ability to run for office for a 3rd time?  granted, it probably would have been an awesome defeat to watch but at the same time, i'll never underestimate the crazy fundie groups that still worship him and their ability to steal an election.  after all, they did it once in 2000. 

and there isn't really a problem with no term limits in congress.  the real problem is 2 fold.  first one being (as i already stated) is that there's too much corporate influence in elections.  get rid of their political presence and let one man run against another.  not machine vs machine. 

the 2nd problem, and this one is much harder to fix, is that voters are farging morons and they keep electing the same assbags to office over and over and over again. 

[rjs246]

There's no way to answer his actual question. Never in the history of the world has any government ever been able to keep up with the changing times. There are rules set, and those rules are followed past the point where they are obsolete and when it becomes a legitimate problem a revolution happens and new rules are set.

Representative democracies are way better at trying to keep up and they do have the ability to incrementally change in ways that other forms of government do not, but until there is large scale public outcry about something (which usually doesn't happen until it's been a problem for a while) the rules don't change.

I'm not suggesting that term limits for the President, as opposed to the legislature, would fall into this category but in general if something is obsolete you can count on the government taking a long time to actually render it such.

[Susquehanna Birder]

There was also no setting of congressional term limits because the job wasn't intended to be a paid career. Those who served in the legislature pretty much heeded the call and put their normal lives on hold. By its very nature, it was a limited-time gig.

[rjs246]

the 2nd problem, and this one is much harder to fix, is that voters are farging morons and they keep electing the same assbags to office over and over and over again. 

People are morons, but the no-term-limit / intentionally-partisan-congressional-districts system that we have encourages politicians to be extremists. When politicians are extremists all the population hears is extremist rhetoric. When all the population hears is extremist rhetoric you shouldn't be surprised when people pick sides and behave like ignorant iceholes.

You've heard me bitch about it here constantly. Finding balanced discussion/reporting of issues is almost impossible and that's with me looking for new material regularly. Imagine being someone who cares about politics, or certain issues, but isn't obsessive the way I am or doesn't have time/access to the endless sprawl of the internet. All they would hear is partisan gibberjabber. It isn't entirely the fault of the people that they are uninformed idiots. The game is rigged to make them that way.

[Sgt PSN]

since you used words like "obsolete" and "changing times" i'm going to throw something out there.  do with is as you wish....

what is the one single trait or characteristic or instinct that is shared by every single living being? 

self preservation

so when we render something as "obsolete" there's still going to be a group or maybe even just 1 person who has thrived off of whatever it is that is now being considered old hat.  take gas and oil companies for example.  like it or not, their days are numbered.  hybrids, electric cars, solar and wind energy and other alternate fuel sources will eventually replace gas and oil.  just as gas and oil once replaced coal. 

now exxon, mobil, texaco, etc have 2 choices.  hang on for dear life and try to slow this change down as much as possible while squeezing every possible red cent out of us as they can.  or, invest in those alternative fuel sources.  for years, they have completely balked at the idea of doing anything other than drilling for oil.  now it seems that they're finally accepting the inevitable and are jumping on board but just think about how much progress could have been made over the last 5-10 years if they didn't take a such a defensive stand.   

it runs the same way when it comes to laws, politics and gov't....or anything else really.  we're creatures of habit and by nature, hate change.  obviously there are those who embrace it otherwise we'd all still be riding around on horseback, but any time people want to make a major change in society, it's always met with harsh resistance. 

i spewed all of that so i could get to this.  the constitution/bill or rights was designed to embrace change.  the only thing that's really set in stone imo are our rights.  the people who wrote it could never in their wildest dreams picture the united states that we live in today.  but i think they did have some pretty good insight on human nature and the evolution of society and technology so they established a gov't that is dictated by a set of rules that allows it to adapt to the changing times.  the problem though is that people don't want to adapt with them.  and that's when we get stuck with obsolete laws and things running amok until things boil over and revolution becomes the only solution. 

and that's what most people don't realize.  this country is like clay.  we can mold it into anything we want.  and 10 years, 20 years or 100 years from now if we don't like the way it looks anymore then it's totally ok to make some adjustments.  maybe one of these days people will figure that out.

[rjs246]

I agree that the foundations of this country are remarkably malleable, and that what I meant when I said

Representative democracies are way better at trying to keep up and they do have the ability to incrementally change in ways that other forms of government do not

But I stand by my point that the system is set up to encourage idiotic 'I win, you lose' political debate.

[Sgt PSN]

no it's not. 

+1 pt for me. 

[shorebird]

I agree that the foundations of this country are remarkably malleable, and that what I meant when I said

Representative democracies are way better at trying to keep up and they do have the ability to incrementally change in ways that other forms of government do not

But I stand by my point that the system is set up to encourage idiotic 'I win, you lose' political debate.

...and we the people are the real losers.

[mpmcgraw]

Term limits have been introduced on the state level and it has been shown that really nothing changes.  More power goes to political aides which I'm weary of, but other than that I don't think it changes much either way.

There's also an idea term limits could make extremism more prevalent in congress.  If you are in your last term why not push bills and vote in the way you want/think is best regardless of all other outside influence?  Hell look at what Jim Bunning is doing right now. 

I'm of the opinion it wouldn't change much of everything and while I think this is a pretty cool topic to talk about we all also know it will never happen.  Good luck getting 2/3rds of politicians to sign on to having their power stripped away from them. 

[rjs246]

No one pays attention to state politics, but even so I'd say that that is why you only implement term limits for the lower house on the national level. It may not be a drastic change, but it would give the voters new options with regularity and shake up a political system that is becoming stale.

And for every Jim Bunning who is 'standing up for what he believes'  by being wildly partisan on his way out there are two Evan Bayhs and Judd Greggs who's concept of the right thing is far more in line with the mainstream public and who use their final term to try to bridge gaps.

[rjs246]

The cab driver who drove me home from the airport last night was a black muslim dude named Yasir and he was listening to Hannity and nodding his head in agreement throughout. farging surreal.

[ice grillin you]

probably al queda planning an attack on the norfolk navy yard and trying to throw you off scent

[rjs246]

That's it. I'm reporting his ass.

PATRIOT ACT!