Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[stalker]

Healthcare is 1/7 of the GDP. That means if we socialize healthcare then 14% of our economy is socialized.

Of course one of the goals of universal coverage is to bring this proportion down. Way down.

Yeah, because the government has a great history of improving the efficiency of businesses it runs.

[rjs246]

Semantics are very important here. It says promote not provide.

You're a jackass but you're right, which is why there are two sides to this discussion. It can be very easily argued that promoting the general welfare would include providing healthcare services. But, if you want to be obtuse, you can argue against it.

To the letter of the law neither of us are right or wrong. I'm simply saying that in my opinion providing healtch care to our citizens should be on par with providing education and paid police officers.

[ice grillin you]

I hope he takes your money and guns, your cadillac, a map to your house, and gives it to the ghetto dwellers.

hahhaha

[ATV]

Yeah, because the government has a great history of improving the efficiency of businesses it runs.

See medicare.

[ATV]

[stalker]

Semantics are very important here. It says promote not provide.

You're a jackass but you're right, which is why there are two sides to this discussion. It can be very easily argued that promoting the general welfare would include providing healthcare services. But, if you want to be obtuse, you can argue against it.

To the letter of the law neither of us are right or wrong. I'm simply saying that in my opinion providing healtch care to our citizens should be on par with providing education and paid police officers.

Why do you have to call me a jackass?

[rjs246]

Just to hurt your feelings.

[Phanatic]

Socialism Capitalism bogey man blah blah blah.

This country has socialist constructs in it right now and has for a very long time. Nothing in its pure form is a good thing sure but we already have a capitalistic socialistic mix. Social Security and the pre Obama tax code are already socialist in nature. The tax code already "distributes wealth" based on your yearly earnings. Some folks want to play with that mix and push it one way and others want it the other. Truth is the mix should probably relate to the reality at hand which is something that is very hard to see when your living it. Right now the economy is down and hard working folks are getting laid off. So the mix goes a little left and socialistic. When times are good and money is flowing the mix goes more capitalistic. This constant push and pull is what keeps us going and I think it is essential. Unfortunately I don't have any clue how we hit the mark right one way or another with the way politics works in this country.

[Diomedes]

There are so many examples of socialized health care in the western world right now that I cannot believe that people still associate it with the 'socialism boogeyman'. What possible explanation can you give for not supporting state-provided health services in a modern country?

poor people should not get health care because they are lazy, immoral losers who want only to steal from the industrious, moral rich people who have earned their money and deserve to rule everyone else

You should get what you pay for.

I knew you would agree.

[MadMarchHare]

Uh huh, and what does that have to do with gun ownership, seatbelts and the nanny state?

Healthcare needs to be made more efficient, no question, but there is absolutely no excuse for a modern country not to offer its people health services as a matter of course. We pay taxes for a reason. Modern roads, police, military and fire services, education and health care should be what we expect out of that tax money.

...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty

Doctors, hospitals and medicine are not the responsibility of the government.


The nanny state will take care of our health needs and tell us where we can invest our social security money etc etc. We are too stupid to take care of ourselves.

If we let natural market pressures affect healthcare and introduced REAL tort reform adequate healthcare would be affordable to all.

We let natural market pressures affect the auto and housing industries.  How's that worked out?

[rjs246]

 To be fair, neither of those industries have been subject 'natural market pressures' for a decade at the least...

[stalker]

Because of Medicare/Medicaid and over-regulation.

[Diomedes]

Which over regulation would that be?

[stalker]

The FDA

[ATV]

While on the toilet tonight I came up with a novel thought - Adolf Hitler's rule was far more successful than not.

It's true. All the infrastructure things he did for Germany before the war, restoring the German economy, conquering a continent. Sure, he may have sucked ass, but you have to grant that (like Bush), the man was highly successful.