Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[ATV]

This is over....

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Pres-GE-MvO.php

So, who do you think the VP should be?

I'd be most happy with Clarke, who I supported in the 2004 election, or Webb.

[ice grillin you]

Counterpoint to those who assume Obama would pull troops quickly and McCain would escalate in Iraq

As I've said before, the positions in Iraq are just posturing.  Obama's campaign message will be much different than the one he gets/gives if elected.

you do know gates is a bush appointee not to mention he served under ghb as well?...hes been a bush family minion for decades....like hes going to back up obamas claims of getting out more quickly than the republican


but for arguments sake lets say its true....you still shouldnt vote for mccain as theres a good chance he attacks iran


if you go by what both candidates have actually said its clear the chances of obama getting us out first are astronomically higher

[phillymic2000]

They did a great job with saddam and the oil for food program why not, let them have another crack at.

It looks like your three sources mentions the same three or so incidents. So, assuming that each of these is actually legitimate, where are your Bush incidents to compare?

Sorry only had a few minutes at work to find what I could. This is from about 5 more minutes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Reluctance in security issues
In many cases UN members have shown reluctance to achieve or enforce Security Council resolutions. Such issues stem from the UN's intergovernmental nature — in many respects it is an association of 192 member states who must reach consensus, not an independent organization.

Other serious security failures include:

Failure to prevent the 1994 Rwandan Genocide, which resulted in the killings of nearly a million people, due to the refusal of Security Council members to approve any military action.[24]
Failure by MONUC (UNSC Resolution 1291) to effectively intervene during the Second Congo War, which claimed nearly five million people in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), 1998-2002, and in carrying out and distributing humanitarian aid.[citation needed]
Failure to intervene in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre: despite the fact that the UN designated Srebrenica a "safe haven" for refugees and assigned 600 Dutch peacekeepers to protect it, the peacekeeping force was not authorised to use force.[citation needed]
Failure to successfully deliver food to starving people in Somalia; the food was instead usually seized by local warlords. A U.S./UN attempt to apprehend the warlords seizing these shipments resulted in the 1993 Battle of Mogadishu.[citation needed]
Failure to implement provisions of United Nations Security Council Resolutions related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.[citation needed]
Failed to prevent or help sufficiently in the area of Darfur genocide: a crisis still exists in that area.

And maybe if the UN did their job instead of getting in bed with Saddam we wouldn't be in this mess. Mother fargers set all the resolutions, didn't back them up, then it came the oil for food scandal was uncovered.

As far as George and his farg ups. He can't take full blame for the war, at least he went to Congress to get approval and last time I checked they approved it. He's done plenty wrong and over the years him and the rep led congress have lost it big time in my book. Too bad the dem led congress has continued to farg things up. Where do we turn?

[rjs246]

Bob Barr.

[phillymic2000]

what about nadar?

[rjs246]

Irrelevant?

[phillymic2000]

and Barr isn't?

[rjs246]

Barr will pull a hell of a lot more votes than Nadar this year. Guaranteed.

[phillymic2000]

heard you mention him before, but I know nothing about him. I'll have to find out.

[ATV]

LOL....

Failure to implement provisions of United Nations Security Council Resolutions related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html

Failure to prevent the 1994 Rwandan Genocide, which resulted in the killings of nearly a million people, due to the refusal of Security Council members to approve any military action.[24]

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB53/

Regarding all the other African bloodbaths - AS IF the U.S. has actually gave a farg about these people. Or, as if even if we did there would be very much we could do about it anyhow. Hell, we can't even provide relief to those devasted in Myanamar......or New Orleans for that matter,

There is one permament member of the UN Security Council who has repeatedly thumbed its nose at progress....

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

John Bolton and the Bush administration DON'T WANT the U.N. to be effective at anything. Hell, we haven't even wanted to pay our debts to them...

http://www.betterworldcampaign.org/issues/funding/growing-us-debt-to-the-un.html

This reminds me of the other Right Wing argument, that you have to watch out for "big government". This after spending the past eight years increasing the size of the government and ensuring its incompetence.

So again, how does this supposed list compare to Bush's? Where is his list? Also, should we consider John Bolton's fuch-ups as UN fuch-ups or Bush fuch-ups?

[ice grillin you]

Bob Barr.

i know you think bob barr is some sort of great libertarian but you should really educate yourself on his past...hes been one of the most right wing politicians in the country over the past 15 years and was an absolutely disgusting during the clinton impeachment...to get the libertarian label he has literally done a 180 on almost every position he now holds....in short hes a disgrace

[rjs246]

Bob Barr.

i know you think bob barr is some sort of great libertarian but you should really educate yourself on his past...hes been one of the most right wing politicians in the country over the past 15 years and was an absolutely disgusting during the clinton impeachment...to get the libertarian label he has literally done a 180 on almost every position he now holds....in short hes a disgrace

You forget that I actually know this guy. I am very intimately informed of his past, political and otherwise. I forced matt and my other roommates to watch the Clinton impeachment hearings because I knew the dude conducting them. The first words the man ever said to me were "Are you a Republican?" and when I told him that I was independent (as a 19 year old) he said "Well at least you're not a Democrat." I know who he is and what he's done and I don't agree with much of his political agenda.

BUT, as I've said for months now, my biggest concern is the government's infringement's on my private life and if he is the candidate that promises the least infringement on my privacy then I am going to talk him up as an alternative, especially to people who are inclined to vote republican but don't really like the idea of voting for McCain. I would take Bob Barr's vision of the country over the current 'Republican' vision every day of the week. It isn't perfect, and he certainly hasn't been perfect, but it makes a lot more sense than most of what we're being bombarded with.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

CNN has an analysis and comparison of the McCain and Obama tax plans (and they laid out the proposed end result by family income). I would pay less in taxes under both of their plans. So yeah, still voting for Obama. Weird.

My benefit won't be that big of a difference, but McCain's still better for me.  So yeah, still voting for McCain. Weird.

Bob Barr.

i know you think bob barr is some sort of great libertarian but you should really educate yourself on his past...hes been one of the most right wing politicians in the country over the past 15 years and was an absolutely disgusting during the clinton impeachment...to get the libertarian label he has literally done a 180 on almost every position he now holds....in short hes a disgrace

I guess you don't realize that rjs is cutely trying to talk McCain voters into voting for an irrelevant candidate instead.

[PhillyGirl]

My benefit won't be that big of a difference, but McCain's still better for me.  So yeah, still voting for McCain. Weird

Wow, last time I paid attention to your posts on this thread, you were voting Obama.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

Yeah, the problem is that I hate big government.  Hate. Big. Government.

The government sucks at everything it does, no matter which side of the aisle is in charge.  The reason I'm voting for McCain is that he's against government waste but still has reasonable populist views on the rampant salaries of CEO's and climate change.

He's old, and he's poorly-spoken, and part of me doesn't even want him to win, but I agree with him on more issues, so he has my vote.

I really have no anger for people that choose to vote for Obama after reasonable thought, but those who simply dismiss McCain as "another Bush" bring out the devil's advocate in me.  I seriously am not nearly as far from the middle as the extremism on this board drives me to outwardly project.

Love,
Right-Wing Zealout Money Lover