Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[SunMo]

Yeah, who needs vacation, sick time, benefits, safety equipment, or overtime? 

this isn't a serious comment right?

[Diomedes]

No man, unions are evil. It's better to get paid less for more work.

[SunMo]

and i get why people are in unions...no responsibilty, bloated wages, extended breaks during the day, actually work 5 hours of an 8 hour day.  but the "need" for them is laughable.

people work for open shops everywhere that offer all the benefits a union offers, and there is no stupid dues to pay.  you have to present benefits to your employees or you will lose this.  this isn't the 1800s anymore

[Munson]

and i get why people are in unions...no responsibilty, bloated wages, extended breaks during the day, actually work 5 hours of an 8 hour day.  but the "need" for them is laughable.

people work for open shops everywhere that offer all the benefits a union offers, and there is no stupid dues to pay.  you have to present benefits to your employees or you will lose this.  this isn't the 1800s anymore

Then why does the rest of the real world outside of SunMo land see employers trying to make employees work longer hours without any increases in pay or benefits? And in fact many of them are actively campaigning to end things like the minimum wage?

I sure wish teachers unions led to bloated wages....Instead I'll see my pay increase about 7K in my first 10 years of teaching. Woohoo

[SunMo]

teaching union, really?  that's your defense?  maybe when the mighty union agrees to address the issue of tenured teachers who don't give a shtein anymore being able to be fired we can have a legitimate discussion about the teaching union.  one of the biggest jokes in the country

[ice grillin you]

i trust ceo's and board of directors to always look out for the worker and do the right thing

worker rights = unnecessary

[SunMo]

nobody's rights are getting trampled, that's just the typical propaganda that unions like to bring up.  there's a thing called free will and choice.  if you aren't getting what you think is fair from your current employer then it's entirely in your power to change to someone who provides you better benefits.  i know that's an novel concept, but it's worth a try.

[SunMo]

i mean, if someone can find specific examples of peoples rights being stepped on, i'd love to hear it

[Sgt PSN]

Unions aren't perfect and they sometimes do more harm then good, but they wouldn't exist if employers could be trusted to treat their workers fairly, pay them competitive wages and provide a safe working environment.   

[Diomedes]

Quick quiz:  An individual worker's free will and choice vs. an employers free will and choice....who wins? 

[SunMo]

they exist because they are entrenched in our society and i'm not saying that every union is evil, but the ones i deal with are certainly more bad than good.

they were necessary back when you were forced to work in a factory for 12 hours because that was the only job you could get.  that is not the case anymore

[SunMo]

Quick quiz:  An individual worker's free will and choice vs. an employers free will and choice....who wins? 

it's not one or the other.

[ice grillin you]

my union protects us on everything from the size of our work space to where the agency is allowed to relocate to

just this past year mangament tried to implement a new pilot program that would have changed the promotion and pay raise process...making it much more difficult for rank and file to make more money...it essentially would have created a path where managers could have more easily given lower ratings to employers denying them promotions and raises simply because they felt like it...anyway the union went buckwild and stopped it

[Sgt PSN]

they exist because they are entrenched in our society and i'm not saying that every union is evil, but the ones i deal with are certainly more bad than good.

How so. 

they were necessary back when you were forced to work in a factory for 12 hours because that was the only job you could get.  that is not the case anymore

Hostess is a pretty good example of why unions are necessary today.  The Hostess execs made monumentally poor business decisions over the last decade or so.  I think they had gone through at least 4 or 5 CEO's during that time and they basically ran the company into the ground.  One of the things they wanted to do during the strike was reduce employee pensions by some ungodly number (like 50%) and the union wouldn't allow it.  So basically, a few high ranking members of the board made stupid decisions and wanted the workers to literally pay for it.  Farg that.  And now it's come out that Hostess was taking money that was intended for pensions and spending it on other operating costs, but they don't know exactly how much they took.  And on top of that, 19 Hostess execs were just awarded a total of $1.8bil in bonuses.

Without a union, hostess might still be in business but the workers would be universally farged for the rest of their lives.

[Diomedes]

Quick quiz:  An individual worker's free will and choice vs. an employers free will and choice....who wins? 

it's not one or the other.

Incorrect.