Political Hippo Circle Jerk - America, farg YEAH!

[ice grillin you]

how can a valid presidential candidate say that at a debate...what the farg has this country come to

and what sd said...what is the special priviledge exactly?

[Sgt PSN]

lol at gays in the military receiving special privileges or that it's a social experiment.

Yeah, if anything they are still 2nd class citizens in the military.  The military will still not recognize gay marriages, meaning the spouses of gay service members will not be eligible for the same benefits that straight spouses receive, such as medical, dental, etc.  Also, gay service members will not receive additional housing allowances if they are married, which means that if they get married and move off base, they will not receive extra money to pay their rent/mortgage and will have to pay their bills out of their base pay.  They also will not receive dependent travel allowances when they receive orders and have to move. 

It's such a non-issue in the military that it's not even funny. Shows how out of touch with reality they are.

Disagree.  I've yet to encounter a straight individual who is accepting or supportive of this.  Every single guy in my squadron has been excessive in their gay bashing since Tuesday when DADT was officially repealed.  It's a small sample, but I'm sure it's not isolated to just my squadron. 

[Seabiscuit36]

Santorum...LOL what a joke of a human being.  Seriously this country is farged.  You have a bunch of morons running for office, morons in congress who cant pass simple bills for bills, and a Teaparty who insists on hating gays/blacks/hispanics/and everything that isnt white and MA.  My strategy is farg investing in gold when i can invest in lead. 

[Seabiscuit36]

and LOL at Sarge missing the chance for calling SD a navy flag

[Sgt PSN]

and LOL at Sarge missing the chance for calling SD a navy flag

I thought about it, but I'm trying to not be the guy who always has to state the obvious.  He spent like 9 years in the Navy and now he hates women.  Not much else to say, really. 

[SD]

Disagree.  I've yet to encounter a straight individual who is accepting or supportive of this.  Every single guy in my squadron has been excessive in their gay bashing since Tuesday when DADT was officially repealed.  It's a small sample, but I'm sure it's not isolated to just my squadron.

Marines are homophobic. I knew who the gay people in the Navy were without asking. It was never an issue on any ship I was ever on. In fact the conversation never even came up at any point.

[Rome]

Every single guy in Sarge's squadron is a homophobe?

That's nice. 

The next time some icehole tells me that I should support the men and women in uniform without hesitation, I'll think back on this and remind myself of that.

[Sgt PSN]

Not all, but def the overwhelming majority.  Problem is that there is a decent portion of Marines out there who are ok with it but won't stand out on the ledge and support it because of the potential backlash they might get from the people who are adamantly against it.  I say that because up until 6 years ago when my sister came out, I was in that group.  I didn't care because the law had no impact on me at all.  I never spoke  out against gays but didn't speak out for them either. 

A couple of years ago I was attending 7 week leadership course.  About halfway through the course, the topic of gays in the military came up (the DADT policy was part of the course cirriculum at the time).  The instructor first asked who was against them serving openly.  Everyone in the room raised their hands.  Then he asked who was in favor of it.  I was the only one to raise a hand.  A few seconds later, about 10-12 others raised their hands as well.....but they had already raised their hands to the previous question.  When the instructor asked them why they raised their hands the first time, they admitted to being intimidated by what the rest of the class would think of them.  When asked why they decided to raise their hand after I did they also admitted that they only did so when they realized they wouldn't be the only one. 

These are grown ass men and women between 25-35 years old but damn if they didn't sound like a bunch of 6th graders, too afraid to express their opinions because they are afraid of what others will think.  But they'll spend all day telling you how much of a badass they think they are because they're Marines. 

This class had about 100 people in it and the Marines were from commands all around the world, so I have to imagine that it was probably a pretty good sampling of they way most Marines thought about it. 

88% homophobe
11% ok with gays but too afraid to speak
1% openly supportive

I was shut out by many of my classmates for the rest of that course but didn't really give a shtein.  No threats or anything towards me, I was just ignored and not invited to any reindeer games. 

I suspect that over time gays will be treated just like every other minority in the military (or society for that matter).....people will be nice and courteous to your face and will bash you when you aren't around.  It still happens with blacks, hispanics, asians, etc so I can only assume that the same tradition will live on with gays.   

[MDS]

when i talked with my old roommate about it, he gave me the "soon but not yet" routine with it. i couldnt really push him further on it cause its not my place, hes there, im not.

but i guess thats a fairly prominent sentiment..to just avoid the situation as a whole.

[Sgt PSN]

when i talked with my old roommate about it, he gave me the "soon but not yet" routine with it. i couldnt really push him further on it cause its not my place, hes there, im not.

but i guess thats a fairly prominent sentiment..to just avoid the situation as a whole.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that.  Are you saying it's not your place because you aren't military?  I think there's a lot of things that civilians are out of place on when they talk about the military but not when it's a legal/social issue that's about a person's right to serve. 

[Rome]

 I hate it when people say it's not my place to question the military or our leaders.

farg you.  I pay your salary.  It's not only my right; it's my duty to question everything.

[MDS]

i mean saying how hes wrong, how you should be able to serve if you like going home and jerking off into your mop bucket cause cleaning products turn you on.

i think the convo had more to do with how gays would be treated, how things would be if someone was openly gay and serving. which i suppose i will cede to him since he in the circle and i am not.

its just not a fight i was going to get into with him.

[Diomedes]

I hate it when people say it's not my place to question the military or our leaders.

farg you.  I pay your salary.  It's not only my right; it's my duty to question everything.

I hate it when, discussing the possibility of having going back to a draft for wartime, they invariably say..."we don't want to fight alongside someone who got drafted..it's much better to be with volunteers."

That's nice.  I'm sure it is.  But you probably don't want to die either, and you're gonna go do that when we tell you to, so you can stfu and serve with whoever we say.  That's the nature of serving, and where a great deal of the honor in doing so derives.  You do what the country asks of you without bitching and crying.

[Sgt PSN]

I've said in the past that I'm anti-draft but don't think I ever elaborated.  I do not want a draft during peacetime.  None of this mandatory 2 or 3 years of service bullshtein.  Dealing with 18 year old kids who want to be there is a big enough pain in the ass, I don't need to deal with someone who doesn't want to be there.

Wartime is a slightly different story.  I'm still not in favor of it, but the logic is different.  First off, no sane person wants to be in combat.  Many think they do, but they don't and realize that as soon as the first round comes down range.  Having said that, a volunteer or draftee is going to fight in combat because if they don't, they die and the goal for every soldier in battle is the same.....live long enough to go home.  So drafees aren't going to sit there in the middle of combat and refuse to fight.  They'll pick up their rifle and return fire just like everyone else. 

So if a war of a large enough scale presents itself and our military lacks the manpower to fight....ok, draft bitches and send them off.  But that would be some epic shtein for a war to be that big.  9/11 inspired millions of people to enlist so any catastrophic event that takes place in the future will result in the same recruiting surge.  A draft at this point is practically irrelevant. 

[Diomedes]

I strongly support a wartime draft because it puts everyone's skin in the game.  Without it, you have a small class of the country bearing the entire burden, and no one else has to give a damn.   Which as we can see ten years on and two concurrent wars running, is exactly what happens.  The politicians and war profiteers like that...the fewer people who have someone over there, know someone, the fewer people who will stand in their way.

If the country is going to fight, then the whole country should be compelled to fight.  Black, white, ghetto, trailer park, rich, poor, straight, gay, muslim, mormon...everyone should have to bear the burden.

If the war is worth fighting, it won't be a problem.  And if it's not worth fighting, the people will check the leaders and end it.  But only if their necks are on the line.