the random musings not worthy of new thread thread

[Seabiscuit36]

Sell all your belongings and join heavens gate then. 

The farging soda machine fills drinks itself.  Automation happens.  I've coded many people out of dumb redundant roles, and I'm sure I'll be on the list one day.  I'm just saying if your ultimate aspiration is to make money, working at a fast food joint may not be the best idea.  Thus why when i was younger, those jobs were full of HS kids. 

[Diomedes]

The fact is, there aren't enough jobs that pay a living wage.  Outsourcing, automation, etc. have been steadily eliminating jobs that pay a decent, family supporting wage. 

The society/country has a very serious problem with this.  What do you do with millions of potential workers if you just don't have jobs for them that offer a dignified living. 

Toll booth operators, for example, fit this description perfectly.  Exceedingly simple, very low skill job that once upon a time hundreds of thousands of Americans held.  Unions kept the wages high enough so if you were a reliable person who didn't steal, showed up every day, etc., you could make a modest but respectable living.  With another full time worker in the house, you could afford to own your home.

Yeeah...those days are gone.  My children will wonder one day, did people really sit in booths all day long taking money from people by hand? 

Progress, I get it...but where do those people go now?  They can't all go get bachelor's degrees in computer science.  They can't all push on from that to get masters degrees. 

Where do all these people like toll booth collectors go when there literally aren't enough jobs for everyone to make an honest living?

[Munson]

Now the average age of those jobs is 20 because people can't find jobs elsewhere. Most of them aren't working there with the aspiration of making money, most are working there trying to scrape by on the bills.

That's what happens when middle class jobs disappear overseas so bottom lines can look better so board member bonuses can be higher....they have to take any job they can get.

[Dillen]

Progress, I get it...but where do those people go now?  They can't all go get bachelor's degrees in computer science.  They can't all push on from that to get masters degrees. 

While I agree with your other points, I'm against this one. You don't need a Bachelor's or Master's degree to be successful or make a living wage. To a lot of people on this board, myself included, an Associate's degree probably would not net us what we want in our lives. Get an Associate's degree in something useful, and a living wage is definitely possible. These programs are inexpensive and easy to get into - full time in-state tuition for the CC's around me are less than 4k a year. In huge cities like NYC or LA, in-state is under 5k. Financial aid is readily available. If it's still too expensive, students can be part-time and take as long as they need. With the opportunities an Associate's degree can offer, they're certainly valuable to someone who is working for minimum wage.

Now the average age of those jobs is 20 because people can't find jobs elsewhere. Most of them aren't working there with the aspiration of making money, most are working there trying to scrape by on the bills.

If someone is working in fast food, they probably have little to no professional skills. If people have nothing to offer, they shouldn't be entitled to a "living wage". Having skills makes people valuable, and then they get treated/compensated as such.

[Munson]

Progress, I get it...but where do those people go now?  They can't all go get bachelor's degrees in computer science.  They can't all push on from that to get masters degrees. 

While I agree with your other points, I'm against this one. You don't need a Bachelor's or Master's degree to be successful or make a living wage. To a lot of people on this board, myself included, an Associate's degree probably would not net us what we want in our lives. Get an Associate's degree in something useful, and a living wage is definitely possible. These programs are inexpensive and easy to get into - full time in-state tuition for the CC's around me are less than 4k a year. In huge cities like NYC or LA, in-state is under 5k. Financial aid is readily available. If it's still too expensive, students can be part-time and take as long as they need. With the opportunities an Associate's degree can offer, they're certainly valuable to someone who is working for minimum wage.

Now the average age of those jobs is 20 because people can't find jobs elsewhere. Most of them aren't working there with the aspiration of making money, most are working there trying to scrape by on the bills.

If someone is working in fast food, they probably have little to no professional skills. If people have nothing to offer, they shouldn't be entitled to a "living wage". Having skills makes people valuable, and then they get treated/compensated as such.

Not sure how long it's been since you've been a new entrant to the job market, but an Associates degree doesn't get you shtein anymore. An associates degree in Education, for example, can land you a job as a paraeducator. They get roughly 22K before taxes (in my state...to be exact, in my district they pay $17.22 an hour..ends up coming out to around 22ish for 180 full school days)...after taxes it'll be, well, not all that much more than what someone working a full time minimum wage job would get. A couple thousand more, sure, but nothing that's pulling you out of poverty. Certainly not enough for you to raise a child on without a 2nd, real income in the home. Chances are, on that income, you'll still be qualifying for certain government assistance.

I don't know many other professions where associates degrees are gonna get you even that, let alone more than that. Every job I see listed know asks for minimum Bachelors....the jobs that people with associates degrees used to be able to get are now given out as free internships to students in Bachelor programs...saves the companies money.

As for the 2nd part....That's why I'm not saying $15 an hour...but they certainly deserve more than $7.25 an hour. Not everyone can be a skilled laborer, the country and society needs the grunts....but you've essentially priced all the grunts out of everything, including a shot at "The American Dream"....I don't think the "American Dream" was conceived with the thought "only if you can afford it." If you're going to support that line of thinking, then you've got to start asking if it's okay that to essentially tell a sizeable sect of the population "You cannot afford a family, and will never be able to afford a family because of your skillset, so you can't have a family"

[Dillen]

I probably should have been more clear describing an "Associate's degree in something useful" to include practical and in demand as well.. I know you're in education and I know I don't have to tell you the disadvantages to it. Just like you said, Associate's degrees can earn $17+ an hour. That's more than double minimum wage in all of the states (for now, anyways), and would come out to be comfortably over $30k for a full year. Trades make okay money, and you definitely don't need a Bachelor's to be a mechanic, electrician, or some kinds of engineers. Associate's programs often fulfill the apprenticeship required for these kinds of jobs too. I could cherry pick all those with an Associate's in a health science who make $17+ an hour, and nearly every hospital or medical practice has those.

Also, when it comes to these kinds of things I almost always suck ass at articulating what I mean, i.e. "If people have nothing to offer, they shouldn't be entitled to a living wage." Obviously, everyone should be able to have families. I guess my main point is that everyone wants a short-term fix - I'm only making minimum wage, I need more, so I'm going to protest for more money. Getting to a point where you make more can't be a short-term fix, but can be done if they actually try.

[Rome]

Nothing says comfort quite like making 30K a year in a big city.

[Munson]

I definitely agree that we need to encourage more teens to think about trade school. It seems to have gone out of style these days, too many people focused on going into 4 year college programs. I don't think there's enough trade jobs to make up for all the middle class jobs we've lost over the years, but it would certainly help.
Unfortunately, with engineering, I don't really know how many jobs you can get with an associates. You may know more than me on that front, but I have a few friends in chem and mechanical engineering jobs and unless you're doing grunt office work (Which you shouldn't need any degree for, really, yet for some reason a lot of thsoe jobs seem to "require" a degree these days), I don't see too many people getting into those fields with associates degrees. Highly competitive stuff from what they've told me. But I don't know how many people are getting hired to do that low level grunt work, since the companies usually reserve those jobs for the unpaid college interns. Cheaper labor and all that.

Eh...the problem is that the minimum wage as it is is just too low. I'm sure you've seen the statistic about how, adjusted for inflation, it's lower than it was 20+ years ago. You can't expect people to survive paying 2013 prices with 1980's wages.

[Yeti]

  @ you guys worried about poor people.

[Rome]

This may have been posted already, but...


http://screen.yahoo.com/flip-side-football-party-030000157.html

Ha!

[PhillyPhreak54]

Minimum wage definitely needs to be increased. Because there are menial jobs that need to be filled and for those people who choose them, for whatever, deserve to be compensated with a wage that at least allows them to live.

The cost of living increases quicker than wages. When I moved to Houston I was paying $650 for a 2br 1100sqft apartment. This was late 2007. It is now up to close to $1000. And I certainly don't live in a trendy loft or anything like that.

I also believe that people who want more, who want better jobs, need to do whatever it takes to succeed. If that requires moving, getting certified in a field that you haven't thought of...whatever it may be...you get off your ass and do it. If you choose not to do it, but are capable of doing it, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

I love the fact that Liz Warren introduced the bill to ban companies from checking peoples credit as a condition of employment. Many people, mainly those just out of school with massive debt or those who have astronomical medical bills, get caught up and that prevents them from landing a job, Then the debts continue to pile up and its a never ending circle of shtein.

[Rome]

My credit was ruined the moment I entered into the HARP program.  Like it dropped 200 points kind of ruined.

farg it.  I can't wait for this country to implode because the leeches who sucked the poor and middle class dry will be the hunted ones, not the predators any longer.

Stock up, kids.  It's gonna get real ugly real soon. . .

[PhillyPhreak54]

My mom's credit has been whacked by medical bills. She's had cancer and many other things but doing much better...except for the hundreds o' thousands she has to pay...all while making about $50k.

[Eagaholic]

farg it.  I can't wait for this country to implode because the leeches who sucked the poor and middle class dry will be the hunted ones, not the predators any longer.

As much as I would love to see the leeches get their comeuppance and then some, I'd be shocked to see it ever happen. Other than a very small number of them here and there, the bastiches never seem to get theirs.   

[Diomedes]

It is utter fantasy to think that the workers stranded by globalization, technological advancement, or at this point the stigma of long term unemployment/agism resulting from the financial collapse of 2008, could or would all go back to school or "actually try."   And it's even madder fantasy to think the economy would somehow employ all of this suddenly improved workforce.  The jobs simply aren't there. 

Idleness is a bad thing in a society.  Nor is it good to have a large population of people who cannot afford shelter, food, or medicine.  The type of capitalism we are living under is improving things only for the already wealthy.  These people are farged and therefore so are we.