New El Stop: Broad and Pattison?

[hunt]

Why is Givens looked at as Charles Johnson/Torrance Small?

He's very good, IMO.

givens has never been a true #1 wr and his numbers are eerily similar to those of small, johnson, & thrash right before the eagles acquired them.

[PhillyPhreak54]

And Randle El isn't much better than him.

Givens:

2002 - 9rec 92yds 1TD
2003 - 34rec 510yds 6Tds
2004 - 56rec 874yds 3TDs
2005 - 59rec 738yds 2TDs

Randle El:

2002 - 47rec 489yds 2TDs
2003 - 37rec 364yds 1TD
2004 - 43 rec 601 yds 3TDs
2005 - 35rec 558yds 1TD

Givens = 158 catches 2214 yards 14.0ypc 12TDs
Randle El = 162 catches 2012 yards 12.4ypc 7TDs

Is ARE really worth all that much more? Is he worth big money at all?

You have a guy who played in a run oriented offense and mostly as a #3.

You have a guy who played in an Eagles-like spread-it-around-to-everyone offense and still put up numbers.

[hunt]

i'm not claiming randal el is better than givens...i'm saying that givens is no better than the crap wr's the eagles have acquired in the past.

givens last year compared to these guys the season before signed by the eagles:

givens: 59/738/2
small: 45/681/7
johnson: 65/815/7
thrash: 50/653/2

givens would help the wr depth but he's no #1, even if the eagles try to sell him as one like they did with the stiffs listed above.

[ice grillin you]

And Randle El has 7 career TDs. Not 17. Not 27. SEVEN.

Oh, and he's thrown 2, has 1 on a KR and 4 on a PR.

That is a total of 14 TDs in 4 years. But he'd be signed to be a WR and there he has 7 TDs.

Dynamic or not, he's going to command a lot of coin.

randel el is behind a 100 catch wr in an offense that runs more than any other in the nfl..of course he isnt going to have huge numbers...put him in a 70% passing offense and he will make plays

as for the money of course hes going to command it...hes one of the top FA at his position and hes young...if you want one of those guys you gotta pay....im sick and tired of hearing about how much guys cost...take a chance and sign someone...its better than having a mike macmahon offseason

[PhillyPhreak54]

I'm not saying be cheap. I'm saying be smart. Go spend it on other areas instead of overpaying for ARE. Just because I don't want them blowing a wad on him doesn't mean I only want a Mike Mc offseason

[Sgt PSN]

I'm not saying be cheap. I'm saying be smart. Go spend it on other areas instead of overpaying for ARE. Just because I don't want them blowing a wad on him doesn't mean I only want a Mike Mc offseason

Exactamundo!

That's basically been the philosophy behind the way the Eagles have been doing business since Reid got here.  Really, other than Jevon Kearse, the Eagles haven't dramatically overspent on free agents and Kearse was a move that needed to be made.

Reid's philosophy has always been to spend money on players that deserve it, especially when it comes to wide recievers.  Over the years, plenty of "big name" recievers have been free agents that Reid has passed on much to the chagrin of most Eagles fans.  Peerless Price being the most prominant.  When TO became available he didn't waste any time in going after him or spending the money to get him here.  There was no doubt what TO was going to do for us and as far as his play goes, I think the Eagles got exactly what they paid for.  But no one knows what ARE will bring to the table.  Can anyone guarantee him getting 80 catches, 1200 yards and 10+ tds?  I highly doubt it. 

Reid will go after a guy who is a proven stud and spend big money on him.  What he won't do is spend big money on a guy who's spent the majority of his career as a back up because there isn't any guarantees with that.  That's why we had guys like Johnson, Small and Thrash starting.  Because there was nothing about any of the other options that dramatically separated them (high dollar players) from cheaper options.

This is not a strong free agent class of recievers.  Not when Randle El is in the top 3.  But because he is near the top, he's going to command top dollar even though he may not be worth it.  Sometimes you do have to over spend, but you do that on guys who have proven their worth.  Guys like Runyan or maybe even Moulds.  But you don't over spend to get a guy like Randle El.   

[mussa]

i do not understand how u guys can judge randel el by stats.

A. He's was a slot receiver under, Burress and Hines Ward his entire career.  Ward, IMO, is one of the top 5 receivers in the game. Burress's could be, but has no consistency what so ever and his size more or less kept him at the #2 spot.

B. Pittsburgh is a run happy offense if you didn't realize.  A very succesful one at that. 

I can't see how u can judge him on that alone.  If given the right oppourtunity, I think, he could be a very good addition to our offense and special teams.  I'd rather get the best talent out there, than get a one-dimensional guy.  More bang for your buck, and if its more bucks, we got it. 

I do agree it is not our major concern, but for whats left on the market and for the talent still on this team,  we need to get the best players we can.  window is shutting. 

[Feva]

i do not understand how u guys can judge randel el by stats.

A. He's was a slot receiver under, Burress and Hines Ward his entire career.  Ward, IMO, is one of the top 5 receivers in the game. Burress's could be, but has no consistency what so ever and his size more or less kept him at the #2 spot.

The thing about that is that just this year... he pretty much got unseated from his #2 spot by a castoff from the Niners in Cedrick Wilson.  Burress doesn't even figure into that.

B. Pittsburgh is a run happy offense if you didn't realize.  A very succesful one at that. 

Like Phreak said somewhere earlier in this thread... the fact that he comes from a run first offense, only raises more questions.  That means that his whole career he's had a dominant running game, and even an all-world WR opposite him to get opposing defenses to think about anything but him.  He's often the forgotten guy.  Also, being in a run first offense, there could be all sorts of flaws in his game that have been hidden by less opportunities in Pittsburgh that would come to light in a pass first offense like ours.  He'd also be the guy opposing defenses focus on now. 

I can't see how u can judge him on that alone.  If given the right oppourtunity, I think, he could be a very good addition to our offense and special teams.  I'd rather get the best talent out there, than get a one-dimensional guy.  More bang for your buck, and if its more bucks, we got it. 

I do agree it is not our major concern, but for whats left on the market and for the talent still on this team,  we need to get the best players we can.  window is shutting. 

See... that's my whole point.  Although he's definitely the hottest name among FA WR's, I don't think he's the best talent out there.  The fact that he can return punts is almost irrelevant to me because if I'm the Eagles, I'm not paying close to Reggie Wayne money for a punt returner.  I'm paying for WR skills... and Randle-El's are questionable.  As far as his trick-play ability... he showcases that ability because Cowher regularly uses him that way.  They run a lot of trick plays.  How many does AR run?  The last one I can think of off the top of my head is 2003 against Miami.

IMO, with Randle-El... it's cool that he's so versatile... but you can't lose sight of the fact that he's quite possibly just a very average NFL WR.  That, first and foremost is what you need to evaluating him on.

[PhillyPhreak54]

Amen! Hold it down!

[mussa]

haters.

i hope we get somebody damnit. 

[Sgt PSN]

haters.

i hope we get somebody damnit.

I think we all do.  And if Randle El is the best available, then so be it.  I just don't want them to get completely focused on him as if he's the missing link. 

I would like to see the Eagles go after Moulds first, Randle El second.

[Feva]

hes old doesnt have his heart in the game and is looking for one last pay day...hes free agent eboli right now

Y'know... I keep looking for one fact in this sentence, but I just can't seem to find one.  Sounds to me like you're just talking out of your ass.

I already showed in this thread that there are a number of guys even older than Moulds and are still getting it done with their respective teams.  Even as "old" as he is... he still managed to haul in 81 catches last year despite JP Losman and Kelly Holcomb being on the other end of them.  His whole career, he's been consistent as hell, leading his team in receptions... despite working with a bunch of zesty QB's like Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt, Doug Flutie and Bledsoe at the end of his run in BUF in addition to the two I already mentioned.  Moulds would be a bonafide weapon with McNabb getting him the ball.  The guy has and is still getting it done.

He may not even looking for a huge "pay day".  A lot of things I read on it say that he's refusing to restructure as a way to skip town and move to a contender.  Either way, at this point in his career... he's STILL a better WR than Randle-El and will cost less.

[Feva]

haters.

i hope we get somebody damnit.

I think we all do.  And if Randle El is the best available, then so be it.  I just don't want them to get completely focused on him as if he's the missing link. 

I would like to see the Eagles go after Moulds first, Randle El second.

Exactly... I won't be upset if we get Randle-El... I just don't think he's the best option out there... and that's what I want the Eagles to get.  Like mussa said, this team doesn't have forever... and at this point, IMO Moulds helps more than Randle-El does.

[The BIGSTUD]

i do not understand how u guys can judge randel el by stats.

A. He's was a slot receiver under, Burress and Hines Ward his entire career.  Ward, IMO, is one of the top 5 receivers in the game. Burress's could be, but has no consistency what so ever and his size more or less kept him at the #2 spot.

The thing about that is that just this year... he pretty much got unseated from his #2 spot by a castoff from the Niners in Cedrick Wilson.  Burress doesn't even figure into that.

B. Pittsburgh is a run happy offense if you didn't realize.  A very succesful one at that. 

Like Phreak said somewhere earlier in this thread... the fact that he comes from a run first offense, only raises more questions.  That means that his whole career he's had a dominant running game, and even an all-world WR opposite him to get opposing defenses to think about anything but him.  He's often the forgotten guy.  Also, being in a run first offense, there could be all sorts of flaws in his game that have been hidden by less opportunities in Pittsburgh that would come to light in a pass first offense like ours.  He'd also be the guy opposing defenses focus on now. 

I can't see how u can judge him on that alone.  If given the right oppourtunity, I think, he could be a very good addition to our offense and special teams.  I'd rather get the best talent out there, than get a one-dimensional guy.  More bang for your buck, and if its more bucks, we got it. 

I do agree it is not our major concern, but for whats left on the market and for the talent still on this team,  we need to get the best players we can.  window is shutting. 

See... that's my whole point.  Although he's definitely the hottest name among FA WR's, I don't think he's the best talent out there.  The fact that he can return punts is almost irrelevant to me because if I'm the Eagles, I'm not paying close to Reggie Wayne money for a punt returner.  I'm paying for WR skills... and Randle-El's are questionable.  As far as his trick-play ability... he showcases that ability because Cowher regularly uses him that way.  They run a lot of trick plays.  How many does AR run?  The last one I can think of off the top of my head is 2003 against Miami.

IMO, with Randle-El... it's cool that he's so versatile... but you can't lose sight of the fact that he's quite possibly just a very average NFL WR.  That, first and foremost is what you need to evaluating him on.

I agree with mostly everything you said. When I say I don't want Randle El, I'm not going by stats either. I'm talking about what I've seen. From what I've seen, he's an average NFL receiver. He does a lot of stuff, and that's nice, but for what he's going to get paid, he's not worth it, because the most important part - the receiving, he is average.

[Feva]

He's coming loose.

The chances of wide receiver Eric Moulds staying with the Buffalo Bills were already slim. Now his departure appears a virtual certainty.

Moulds' agent, Harry Henderson, said his client has no intention of taking a pay cut to remain with the Bills.

"I don't think that's an option at all," Henderson told The Buffalo News at the NFL Scouting Combine. "He's under contract, so they should pay him. If they want to reduce him, I just don't think he's going to be there."

Damn, we need a "doin' the cabbage patch" smilie...