Phillies Offseason Talk

[Rome]

Can't blame him for wanting a chance at the starting job- perhaps trying to put the finishing touches on his Hall of Fame credentials. 

That's the part that really galls me.   Why in God's name wouldn't the Phillies give him the chance to beat out Loserthal fair and square?

None of this shtein makes sense to me. 

If the Phillies wouldn't give him the opportunity to come to camp and win the starting job, then things are even worse for this team than I ever imagined in my worst nightmares.

PS: Settle down, Sassy.  No offense to the garden spot of N.C. was intended.   

[rjs246]

If I were Piazza and my options were San Diego or Philly, I would retire. What a couple of pathetic franchises.

[Sgt PSN]

PS: Settle down, Sassy.  No offense to the garden spot of N.C. was intended.

It's all good.  I really don't know shtein about Greensboro.  Never been there.  I'm not even sure why I made that comment.  I don't particularly care for NC to begin with. 

[PhillyPhreak54]

I'm not surprised that the homo picked San Diego. He had Philadelphia on his no-trade list for several years.

Would've been nice to have his bat off the bench.

And listen, I hate Lieberthal, but he plays better defense than Piazza. Mike couldn't throw out Shawn Andrews stealing 2nd.

[MDS]

I call a fag drag.

[SD_Eagle5]

Can't blame him for wanting a chance at the starting job- perhaps trying to put the finishing touches on his Hall of Fame credentials. 

That's the part that really galls me.   Why in God's name wouldn't the Phillies give him the chance to beat out Loserthal fair and square?

That was my initial reaction. I thought he would have been a solid pickup and he could have filled in at 1B too. He's brutal defensively.

[MDS]

He's even worse at 1B than he is at C. Burrell should play 1B against tough LHP, and let Victorino play LF. However, for the most part, Howard should be playing everyday. But in terms of giving guys rest, thats gonna be an option.

[SunMo]

And listen, I hate Lieberthal, but he plays better defense than Piazza. Mike couldn't throw out Shawn Andrews stealing 2nd.

actually, by the numbers, Lieberthal isn't much better at throwing runners out.  i think he was something like 8% better in throwing guys out last year.  over a hundred steal attempts, he'll throw out 8 more runners.  i'll take Piazza throwing out less runners and hitting better rather than vice versa.

and at least Piazza can still do things a real catcher does, like call a game, handle a staff, and block the plate.  Lieberthal can't call a game or block the plate.  every throw he takes for a play at the plate is either in front of or behind the plate to avoid a collision.

[BigEd76]

According to ESPN, the Phils offered more money than San Diego, but the better opportunity to play is what clinched it...

[PhillyPhreak54]

Mo,

Piazza isn't better than Lieby at blocking balls or calling a game. He stinks all around as a catcher. The only reason he ever played was because of his offense. When Pedro cameto NY they kept Piazza away from him as amuch as possible (in regards to catching him).

This sounds like I am sticking up for the bum Lieby, but I'm not. Piazza is just terrible defensively.

[Sgt PSN]

Then that really doesn't make any sense.  Why would the Phls offer more money but not at least give him the opportunity to compete for the starting job?  Hell, even if you're dead set on Loserthal starting, at least lie to the man and tell him he has a shot.  Sheesh.

[BigEd76]

Here's the list of names still available for our bench: 

Rafael Palmeiro
Erubiel Durazo
Dave Hansen
Tino Martinez
Jose Offerman
Greg Colbrunn
Carlos Baerga
Scott Hatteberg
Jose Hernandez
Roberto Alomar
Ramon Martinez (can't re-sign with Phils)
Rey Sanchez
Royce Clayton
Manny Alexander
Alex Gonzalez (FLA SS)
Alex S. Gonzalez (TB 3B)
Mike Mordecai
Luis Lopez

Sammy Sosa
Bobby Higginson
Juan Gonzalez
Richard Hidalgo
B.J. Surhoff
Jeffrey Hammonds
Dustan Mohr
Gerald Williams
Denny Hocking
Danny Bautista
Chris Magruder
Ruben Sierra

Bengie Molina

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

You'd think the Phils would match that money, so he'd be deciding between a little more playing time and a little more action from his NY-based girl.  If he picks SD, we know the girl's just a front.

HA!

[SunMo]

Mo,

Piazza isn't better than Lieby at blocking balls or calling a game. He stinks all around as a catcher. The only reason he ever played was because of his offense. When Pedro cameto NY they kept Piazza away from him as amuch as possible (in regards to catching him).

This sounds like I am sticking up for the bum Lieby, but I'm not. Piazza is just terrible defensively.

my point is though, whatever the degree that Piazza is a worse defensive catcher than Lieberthal, that is less than the degree that Piazza is a much better hitter than Lieberthal

[Geowhizzer]

Sun,

The last several years the offensive gap between Piazza and Lieberthal wasn't as large as you'd think.

Piazza
2004:  445 AB, 47 R, 20 HR, 54 RBI, .266 AVG, .362 OBP, .444 SLG
2005:  398 AB, 41 R, 19 HR, 62 RBI, .251 AVG, .326 OBP, .452 SLG

Lieberthal
2004:  476 AB, 58 R, 17 HR, 61 RBI, .271 AVG, .335 OBP, .447 SLG
2005:  392 AB, 48 R, 12 HR, 47 RBI, .263 AVG, .336 OBP, .418 SLG

Piazza still has more power, but I don't think that his RBI totals would be markedly different than Lieberthal's, as he wouldn't be hitting in the premier spot in the batting order as he had with the Mets.  Piazza has been declining markedly since his last big year in 2002. 

Plus side:  Piazza stil has more power.  20 and 19 HR in Shea- add 3-5 in CBP.

Down side:  Piazza's OBP and SLG have slidden dramatically and steadily since 2002. 
2001: .384 OBP / .573 SLG / .957 OPS
2002: .359 OBP / .544 SLG / .903 OPS
2003: .377 OBP / .483 SLG / .860 OPS (Only 68 games)
2004: .362 OBP / .444 SLG / .806 OPS
2005: .326 OBP / .452 SLG / .778 OPS

At this point in his career, Piazza DOES NOT have enough of an advantage offensively to offset his absolutely atrocious defense.  Lieberthal's throwing has been mediocre the past several seasons, but his defensive and pitch-calling skills are well above Piazza's.

While I would like to see a great local player finish his career in his hometown, I am not overly upset that Piazza didn't sign with the Phils.  I am no fan of Lieberthal, but at this point in their respective careers, Lieberthal should start over Piazza.  For the Phils to lie to Piazza would probably just lead to problems in the future- and I don't think that Piazza would be fooled by such rhetoric.  If the Phils would sign Piazza, it would be merely for a right-handed power bat off the bench, and perhaps a spot starter at 1B for the tough left-handers and a VERY occasional starter at C.

On a side note, hopefully there is a good free agent catcher this coming offseason, as the Phils will finally be free of Lieberthal's contract, and there is NO ONE in the minors that could take his place.