Antonio Gates Ultimatum

[MURP]

So you all should be pushing for T.O. to get a re-negotiated contract then. It's the same thing.

  you really enjoy babbling nonsense dont ya?

[Diomedes]

So you all should be pushing for T.O. to get a re-negotiated contract then. It's the same thing.

No, we shouldn't and no, it's not.  You've got troubles, don't you Chuggie?

[hbionic]

It's the same god damned thing....he doesn't want to honor his contract, just like T.O. because what they signed isn't what they feel they are worth in the present....although it may be true, they  still farging signed. You all would be farged in court.

[Zanshin]

It's not even close to that black and white.

[MURP]

bionic, you are just talking without even bothering to read up on the situation.  How you see the situations as the same thing is beyond me.   

First off, the Chargers initiated contract talks 10 months ago with Gates.   Did the Eagles initiate talks to redo TO's contract this offseason? no.

second, the Chargers are offering Gates a long term deal RIGHT NOW.  They have a contract on the table that Gates and his agent dont agree with.    At any time did we hear anything about the Eagles offering TO a new contract this offseason? no.

This is directly from the Chargers GM: 

"This is not broken off in a negative way," Smith said. "We're wide open to discussion. Let's do a deal. We'd love him to be a part of our future. We don't want him playing for $380,000. We recognize his contributions.

Has Andy Reid at anytime said that he doesnt want TO to play for his current salary and wants to redo it?  no.

[hbionic]

It's not even close to that black and white.

Contracts are. As long as you know what kind of clauses you have protecting you or know the loopholes in it. It just so happens that the Owners right now have the leverage, not the players, you can't fault the Owners for playing by the rules. Yes, its a farged system, but that's they way the contracts are set up. If its anyone's fault, its the agents for not giving them a clear understanding of the consequences of being in a position that he's in. At the beginning, I'm sure it was a lot of money...but by today's market, he's underpaid, but the contract is binding and all you can do is bitch and moan and hold out...and it can work...but your farged otherwise unless you get a new deal or get cut or traded.

So, yes it is that black and white. It may seem unfair, but it is in writing and an enforceable contract.

[hbionic]

My point is regarding the isolated part of the Gates thing.

It's obvious that Gates and T.O.'s situation aren't the same...and its more obvious that I didn't read up on it....but regarding holding out....and the market value thing and the contract, its the same.

[Zanshin]

No, it's not.  We're not talking legality, here, really.  Gates has the right not to play football if he feels the the risk of playing outweighs the reward.  They can't "make" him play in court.  It just means he can't go to another team. 

Different than Owens entirely, because he wants even more than the mega contract he JUST signed...and it's not worth it for him to sit out.

Totally different situations entirely.  I feel the same way about the Hines Ward thing-- that was also totally different.

[RomeyRome]

He wants a 3-year deal with Gonzalez money. They want him for 5 years at less than Gonzo money. If they don't sign him and he plays 6 games this year he's a FA

I don't blame the Chargers.  You can't pay a guy big time money for one season.  Now if he goes out and tears it up this season again, then yeah they need to work something out.  He signed with them in 2003 as an undrafted rookie FA.  He had twenty something catches that year, and then obviously blew up in 2004.

But, how many times have we seen a player have one or two good seasons and then fall off the face of the earth.  You can't pay this guy Tony Gonzalez money after ONE season of good work.  Tony Gonzalez has been doing it for a looooooong time. 

[Rome]

Chugs doesn't agree.

That's fine.

Allow him to remain blissful in ignorance and move on, people.

[Zanshin]

Must be something in the L.A. air...wait, that's just the smog.

[MURP]

I don't blame the Chargers. You can't pay a guy big time money for one season.

ummm, they want to pay him big money after one season.  Just not as much as Gates wants to get.

[Sgt PSN]

I'm going to take Chuggie's side on this one.  Not because he swallows every time and has no gag reflex but just because I think he's on to something. 

Ok, so the general thinking here is that it's ok for Gates to hold out because it's later in his contract, he's getting paid in peanuts compared to other players who put up similar stats and he's drastically out performed his contract.  And TO is rediculous for asking for more money just one year into a 7 year deal. 

Ok, I'm going to call bullshtein. 

2 different scenerios but the same bottom line.  Honor your farging contract.  Same thing goes with Hines Ward and his (now ended) holdout. 

It is everyone's right to ask for a raise.  Your's, mine, TO, Gates, anyone.  Doesn't matter how long we've been working at our job or how long ago we signed the contract.  If you think you deserve a raise, ask for it. 

A holdout is inexcusable regardless of whether or not you feel you're getting paid what you deserve.  You signed the contract, honor the farging thing.  Continue to ask for a raise all you want but if the organization you work for isn't willing to give it to you then swallow your farging pride, lace 'em up and go do the job you're being paid to do.  And if the organization isn't willing to give you the money you're looking for then you take your ass to whoever will when your current contract expires.  And if you can't wait that long then request a trade to a team willing to give you what you want. 

That being said, I do agree very much with this post from MURP and I see the point he's getting at:

bionic, you are just talking without even bothering to read up on the situation. How you see the situations as the same thing is beyond me.

First off, the Chargers initiated contract talks 10 months ago with Gates. Did the Eagles initiate talks to redo TO's contract this offseason? no.

second, the Chargers are offering Gates a long term deal RIGHT NOW. They have a contract on the table that Gates and his agent dont agree with. At any time did we hear anything about the Eagles offering TO a new contract this offseason? no.

This is directly from the Chargers GM:

"This is not broken off in a negative way," Smith said. "We're wide open to discussion. Let's do a deal. We'd love him to be a part of our future. We don't want him playing for $380,000. We recognize his contributions.

Has Andy Reid at anytime said that he doesnt want TO to play for his current salary and wants to redo it? no.

IMO though, because the Chargers have made offers to Gates and they are still open to negotiations I think that's even more reason why Gates needs to be with the team and not holding out.  The Chargers seem to be actively trying to come to an agreement with Gates and the best thing he can do to help his cause is get his ass on the field and remind them exactly what they're are going to be paying him for. 

Sorry, but if I ran a business of any type and one of my best employees stopped coming to work because he wanted more money I would fire his ass on the spot.  Keep doing the job you're being paid to do because in the end it's a hell of a lot better than the unemployment line. 

Also, since I know someone is going to bring it up.......

I am equally against teams cutting a player for salary cap purposes.  It's a shady tactic used by NFL owners and GM's and should be illegal.  It's a 2 way street and I beleive that if a player needs to honor his contract then so should the team who offered it to him. 

[Zanshin]

Welcome to the opinion....but the situations couldn't be more different.  Surely, you wouldn't put him in the same category as Owens.

[Sgt PSN]

Welcome to the opinion....but the situations couldn't be more different. Surely, you wouldn't put him in the same category as Owens.

He's a player unhappy with his contract.  Sounds like the same category to me.