2nd Amendment Thread

[ice grillin you]

Maybe we can get this thread moved to the No Hippos forum.

bingo

[Diomedes]

Anyway, I guess I'll move the discussion on purchasing to No Hippos and let the debate rage here.

Good call.

Regarding the debate:  we wouldn't have half the problem with guns that we do now if sentences for gun crimes were commensurate with the damage gun criminals do to our society.

Illegal possession should be five years minimim no out for good behavior.
Menacing/pointing one at someone should be ten years minimum
Shooting one illegally (but not hitting anyone) 30 years.
Actually shooting someone, whether they die or not, 50 years.

Killing someone with a gun, you get the 50 years minimum for shooting someone, plus the murder charges.

If the real sentences don't convince people to stop the idiotic gunplay, then being in prison will eventually stop it anyway.

Do I see gun lovers advocating for serious gun laws though?  No.  The dirty little secret is they would rather have no regulation at all than sensible laws and redistration.

[SD]

So, what you're saying is that in an ideal world, in which we certainly do not live and will never exist, guns aren't necessary? Sure. Neither are abortions. Neither are militaries or police officers. Need I go on?

Define 'ideal world'. Wars and violence are always going to happen, so there will always be a need for the military and police. But how do 99% of homicides occur? With a gun. So eliminate the guns and you eliminate a lot of the problem. Sure, if someone wants to kill someone else they'll find a way, but guns make it a million times easier. And like I mentioned, eliiminating guns altogether isn't a viable option so I don't even know where you're going with this.

[Diomedes]

I don't know what 'redistration' is or where it came from but I like it.

What we need is sensible redistration!

[SD]

Anyway, I guess I'll move the discussion on purchasing to No Hippos and let the debate rage here.

Good call.

Regarding the debate:  we wouldn't have half the problem with guns that we do now if sentences for gun crimes were commensurate with the damage gun criminals do to our society.

Illegal possession should be five years minimim no out for good behavior.
Menacing/pointing one at someone should be ten years minimum
Shooting one illegally (but not hitting anyone) 30 years.
Actually shooting someone, whether they die or not, 50 years.

Killing someone with a gun, you get the 50 years minimum for shooting someone, plus the murder charges.

If the real sentences don't convince people to stop the idiotic gunplay, then being in prison will eventually stop it anyway.

Do I see gun lovers advocating for serious gun laws though?  No.  The dirty little secret is they would rather have no regulation at all than sensible laws and redistration.

I'm all for stricter gun laws, but the jails are already overpopulated as it is and there's no way they could enforce this.

[smeags]

why could they never enforce that ? because we have lazy/soft judges that just collect paychecks and law makers that worry more about their own interest and that of the lobbyist instead of actually serving the people ? 

[SD]

why could they never enforce that ? because we have lazy/soft judges that just collect paychecks and law makers that worry more about their own interest and that of the lobbyist instead of actually serving the people ? 

Where are they putting all of these criminals at? Your house?

[Diomedes]

I'm all for stricter gun laws, but the jails are already overpopulated as it is and there's no way they could enforce this.

let the drug offenders out, put gun criminals in their still warm cots

everyone wins

[Diomedes]

and to be clear, what I'm talking about is gun crime sentences, not gun control

I have my own views about what kind of firearm ought to be available to the general population and what not, just as everyone does, but my point is that the argument over whether and what should be legal is made moot if you make sure than anyone committing a crime with any gun goes to jail for a very long time.

[SD]

I'm all for stricter gun laws, but the jails are already overpopulated as it is and there's no way they could enforce this.

let the drug offenders out, put gun criminals in their still warm cots

everyone wins

This is my solution as well. The 'war on drugs' has been a colossal failure, so there's no need to keep them illegal and spend billions of dollars a year with that fight.

[Munson]

To me, it's not even about what guns are available.

It's about the screening process. I get a simple backround check, fill out some forms, and bam, I have a handgun. It should be more than that. Do what you can to prevent the mentally unstable from getting their hands on weapons like guns.

[PoopyfaceMcGee]

So, you're saying that people like you shouldn't be able to own guns? I agree.

[Diomedes]

To me, it's not even about what guns are available.

It's about the screening process. I get a simple backround check, fill out some forms, and bam, I have a handgun. It should be more than that. Do what you can to prevent the mentally unstable from getting their hands on weapons like guns.

I used to think along similar lines, but the pat response from the gun lobby about restricting guns only restricts law abiding citizens from getting them, is accurate.  Don't get me wrong, I think we should have much smarter screening, and as I said, I have my own opinions about what guns should be allowed.  But the fact of the matter is that we are up to our eyeballs in guns and any criminal who wants one can get one easily.  That's not going to change for a long time, even if we all of a sudden get perfect screening for new gun sales.

What we can do is put motherfargers who go around our communities buying selling and using guns illegally away for a very long time.  We don't do that now.  Not even close.

[Diomedes]

I want to start a bromance with this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O_bHR3BmTY&feature=player_embedded