Holy shtein! As most of you are asleep and missed this, this quake was nasty. 8.9 hit about 2:45 PM Japan time. Tsunami about to hit Northeast coast of Japan. Footage is amazing.
Hawaii on a Tsunami watch and possibly west coast of US.
Jesus, 8.9 is massive. The scale is logarithmic rather than linear so there's a huge difference between a 7.9 vs 8.9 magnitude.
Did you see the footage? HOLY shtein! This just released here in Hawaii:
A TSUNAMI HAS BEEN GENERATED THAT COULD CAUSE DAMAGE ALONG
COASTLINES OF ALL ISLANDS IN THE STATE OF HAWAII. URGENT ACTION
SHOULD BE TAKEN TO PROTECT LIVES AND PROPERTY.
THE ESTIMATED ARRIVAL TIME IN HAWAII OF THE FIRST TSUNAMI WAVE IS
0259 AM HST FRI 11 MAR 2011
Officially a Tsunami Warning now. Sirens to go off at midninght here.
oh boy
save the laptop, donald. mlb.tv subscription!!!!!
Good luck to you, Don.
Some of Japan footage is pretty farged up. Watching the Tsunami spread looks like the earth just started to flow, like it was on a plate that was tipped. Some aerial footage showed the tsunami spreading over the land and a couple of cars on the road trying to flee just got engulfed and carried away in the debris.
Get to high ground on a Volcano, Tito. Good luck.
Man, feel sorry for those people in cars trying to get away seeing the wall of water coming from a distance but helpless and finally get washed away. Refinery explosion suddenly making the screen turn white like it went nuclear in massive explosion. Looking Katrina-esque. Rare to see news footage of people actually dying right in front of your eyes.
24 foot water wall hits airport.
Quote from: MDS on March 11, 2011, 02:50:07 AM
oh boy
save the laptop, donald. mlb.tv subscription!!!
Absolutely. My priorities are all screwed up. Just went to get gas - line was 70 cars deep at all stations. Hit the store and it was nuts. Water, canned meat, bread. Pop Tarts and of course 24 pack of Miller Lite. Saw half the neighborhood there.
People starting to take this thing seriously. Sirens will be going off any time now. Starting to evacuate low lying areas.
We're about a mile and a half from the coastline but I am at sea level. My parents and sister live about 5 miles down the coast but live on a good size hill.
This is nuts.
Will keep you posted.
QuoteA tsunami watch was also issued for the coasts of Oregon, Washington and California as well as parts of Alaska, The Oregonian newspaper reported. The paper said any wave which reached the coast could hit just before 7:30 a.m. local time Friday.
Be safe, Don. It's heading toward you at 500mph, 4 hrs. Are you at high ground?
Not yet. At home, but we live at the bottom of a steep hill and the road up there is literally 10 feet from where I'm sitting.
4 hours and counting. Getting a little tense around here. People definitely starting to panic.
Good luck man, hopefully Japan got it the worst. I think they said another 20 countries could be in it's path.
8.9 is an amazing amount of energy, holy crap.
Quote from: Don Ho on March 11, 2011, 03:48:55 AM
Absolutely. My priorities are all screwed up. Just went to get gas - line was 70 cars deep at all stations. Hit the store and it was nuts. Water, canned meat, bread. Pop Tarts and of course 24 pack of Miller Lite. Saw half the neighborhood there.
drama queens
there was never a chance of a tsunami in hawaii much less the us west coast...when theres an ocean quake anywhere in the world they just autopmatically call an earth wide tsunami warning...its like bush with the terror rainbow levels
when there is a tsunami like this, what happens to the wildlife in the ocean? do you find fish and whales and sharks and turtles all the way inland after a tsunami? or do they all know what's up and swim out to sea?
Quote from: Diomedes on March 11, 2011, 07:41:56 AM
do you find fish and whales and sharks and turtles all the way inland after a tsunami?
not really...its not until just before it hits land does it carry any real power...anything real close to or on the shoreline will get carried....but out in the ocean its just a simple displacement of water that doesnt effect anything until it get to something that isnt more water
in general tsnunamis arent very powerful its just that many of the worlds coastlines are so incredibly vulnerable to rising water...hence the great fear over global warming...in a global warming scenario you dont even have waves that are causing mass destructions all you have is the a simple rise in sea levels
Apparently that's one of the cool things during a tsunami is the fish flopping around when the water drawsback. That's why lots of people were killed in 1960 in Hilo. The first wave hit and when the water receded and the bay was exposed, people ran out to check out all the fish and were grabbing them by the dozens. The next wave came that people weren't expecting and killed 61.
OK, 3 AM and nothing on Kauai yet. C'mon, I stayed up for this. Let's go.
Don't believe it, where are the links... :-o
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 11, 2011, 07:52:58 AMnot really...
How disappointing. I've been imagining people getting devoured by sharks a mile inland, or hitching rides to safety on whales.
really ? can i have some of what you're smoking ?
Quotefrom CNN -
-- Between 200 to 300 bodies found in Japanese coastal city of Sendai, the Kyodo news agency reports.
has Vegas set up a pool for the final kill count yet?
So I'm guessing it didn't hit Hawaii??
oh, it hit: a great white shark is gnoshing on Don Ho in his back yard right now
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_japan_earthquake_pacific
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 11, 2011, 10:33:17 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_japan_earthquake_pacific
I thought IGY said that it impacting Hawaii or the US was horseshtein???
looks pretty nuts over there....i hope don and his full tank of gas are ok
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/group-people-gets-splashed-wave-beach-Honolulu-Friday-March-11/photo//110311/480/urn_publicid_ap_org64052458e25a4e4da0a60ec496e277f7//s:/ap/us_japan_earthquake_pacific
Quote
Group of people gets splashed by wave
A group of people gets splashed by a wave on the beach in Honolulu on Friday.
March 11, 2011.
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20110311/capt.64052458e25a4e4da0a60ec496e277f7-64052458e25a4e4da0a60ec496e277f7-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=xNhpGgJ5Pef4Qc_5TgzHag--)
And there were 7 foot waves that hit other parts and caused damage. The reason for the warnings is that tsunamis have hit the the west coast in the past and taken lives. Better safe than sorry.
The videos of the waves rolling through buildings and farmland is just ridiculous.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 11, 2011, 11:06:30 AM
The videos of the waves rolling through buildings and farmland is just ridiculous.
Just goes to show that we are still mother nature's bitch.
Absolutely. I can't wait for the "God did this to Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor" rhetoric.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 11, 2011, 11:10:28 AM
Absolutely. I can't wait for the "God did this to Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor" rhetoric.
Nah God did it to punish them for killing dolphins!
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 11, 2011, 10:53:50 AM
looks pretty nuts over there....i hope don and his full tank of gas are ok
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/group-people-gets-splashed-wave-beach-Honolulu-Friday-March-11/photo//110311/480/urn_publicid_ap_org64052458e25a4e4da0a60ec496e277f7//s:/ap/us_japan_earthquake_pacific
Quote
Group of people gets splashed by wave
A group of people gets splashed by a wave on the beach in Honolulu on Friday.
March 11, 2011.
(http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20110311/capt.64052458e25a4e4da0a60ec496e277f7-64052458e25a4e4da0a60ec496e277f7-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=xNhpGgJ5Pef4Qc_5TgzHag--)
They weren't talking about Honolulu in the warnings.
it was for every island...in fact it was for the PACIFIC OCEAN
lol @ only warning specific hawaiin islands from a wave that is coming from 4000 miles away and potentially spans thousand of miles
oahu batten down the hatches....honolulu go about your bizness...THE ENTIRE WEST COAST OF THE CONTINENT OF NORTH AMERICA watch out for possible waves
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 11, 2011, 11:43:39 AM
it was for every island...in fact it was for the PACIFIC OCEAN
lol @ only warning specific hawaiin islands from a wave that is coming from 4000 miles away and potentially spans thousand of miles
oahu batten down the hatches....honolulu go about your bizness...THE ENTIRE WEST COAST OF THE CONTINENT OF NORTH AMERICA watch out for possible waves
Some cities are build on the coast... like Crescent City.. and that's the one that they were most worried about.
Some weather dude on CNN just said what IGY's been saying, but did so in greater detai and with colorful charts and graphicsl. In short, the big waves are directed towards South America, but shouldn't be devastating. Expect 3 ft waves on the US west coast. Nothing major but enough that you should still stay off the beach until everything calms down.
IGY is a better amateur weatherman than Todd is a professional journalist.
Quote from: Hawk on March 11, 2011, 11:55:45 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 11, 2011, 11:43:39 AM
it was for every island...in fact it was for the PACIFIC OCEAN
lol @ only warning specific hawaiin islands from a wave that is coming from 4000 miles away and potentially spans thousand of miles
oahu batten down the hatches....honolulu go about your bizness...THE ENTIRE WEST COAST OF THE CONTINENT OF NORTH AMERICA watch out for possible waves
Some cities are build on the coast... like Crescent City.. and that's the one that they were most worried about.
that interesting (not really) but it doesnt change the fact that the tsunami warning was for all of hawaii and the west coast of the united states...the notion that one hawaiian island would get a warning and another wouldnt is ludicrous
must every goddamn thread on this board turn into an ignorant bitch fight between igy and someone dumb enough to feed attention to an attention whore?
yes. the answer is yes. every farging thread must be polluted by this crap
farg yo upeople
there nothing annoying than a hipster crybaby complaining to the world about two OTHER people bitching
you remind me of a little kid cowering in the corner of his kitchen blubbering "make it stop" while daddy is beating on mommy with a frying pan
in short....grow the farg up
How about you both just shut up?
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 11, 2011, 12:14:56 PM
there nothing annoying than a hipster crybaby complaining to the world about two OTHER people bitching
you remind me of a little kid cowering in the corner of his kitchen blubbering "make it stop" while daddy is beating on mommy with a frying pan
in short....grow the farg up
*snicker
This argument is shaking :CF's foundation. I just hope the ripple effect doesn't reach threads in other sections of the board.
no hippos seems to be the high ground.
get. there.
Gotta fill up my tank first.
good choice waiting till now. you know with all that stuff about gas expanding and all.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 11, 2011, 12:30:10 PM
This argument is shaking :CF's foundation. I just hope the ripple effect doesn't reach threads in other sections of the board.
Ha this AWFUL but I still snorted out loud. Damn cold.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/11/2011-03-11_amazing_photo_tsunami_waves_form_whirlpool_in_japan.html
88 thousand missing
http://www.businessinsider.com/japan-missing-people-2011-3
wow
I felt the same way Eagaholic about the cars trying to drive away while the wave of debris was headed towards them. I remember even seeing someone on bicylcle. It looked like some of the cars on some streets had no clue what was about to hit them. Sad.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-japan-quake-nuclear-20110312,0,3015818.story
I call bullshtein. Don't worry, it's only 'slightly' radioactive. As you were.
Cheap & non-damaging to the environment.
just watched footage of this shtein. insane.
i would imagine that the guy spending half his life building the biggest house of cards ever is none to happy right now
Quote from: hbionic on March 11, 2011, 02:26:52 PM
I felt the same way Eagaholic about the cars trying to drive away while the wave of debris was headed towards them. I remember even seeing someone on bicylcle. It looked like some of the cars on some streets had no clue what was about to hit them. Sad.
Kind of like the sickening feeling you got when you watched the people jumping from the building....
how long until someone blames this on global warming
This is all because of global warming.
(3 minutes)
2012, it's all coming to an end bitches.
Quote from: smeags on March 11, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
2012, it's all coming to an end bitches.
Woody Harrelson was right.
Quote from: Hawk on March 11, 2011, 04:01:05 PM
Quote from: hbionic on March 11, 2011, 02:26:52 PM
I felt the same way Eagaholic about the cars trying to drive away while the wave of debris was headed towards them. I remember even seeing someone on bicylcle. It looked like some of the cars on some streets had no clue what was about to hit them. Sad.
Kind of like the sickening feeling you got when you watched the people jumping from the building....
One scene seemed to capture it in a nutshell. The one where people were driving, probably frantically, just a few hundred yards away from the shore to get away as the wave approached them. But the road was parallel to the beach with no other direction to go so even trying to escape was completely futile. Within a minute the land was submerged.
I thought the same thing as igy did at first. Ok, earthquake in Japan, 7.9, been through this drill before, wake me when its over. shtein, the earthquake we had here several years ago (remember, during the Birds/Saints game) was a 7 and it was centered right off the Kohala Coast on the Big Island. No tsunami. Once I saw that footage from Japan and those waves and it was upgraded to an 8.9, I got a little concerned. It's just a matter of time before we do get hit here and I for one am glad we were prepared and people didn't screw around.
You could definitely see the surge and the water recede big time when it hit. They showed the reef off Diamond Head fully exposed as one of the homes on the beach had a huge flood light in the yard. It was almost high tide and the reef would never be exposed that far out under normal conditions. Water just stopped. What made it worse it was 3:30 AM and you could only see as far as the flood light could shine. No way to see if anything big was coming in.
Quote from: Eagaholic on March 11, 2011, 04:35:40 PM
This is all because of global warming.
(3 minutes)
lol
Absolute devastation. Just incredible. They'll be finding bodies for weeks after this.
nuclear plant explosion...motherfarger this isn't good
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/03/13/world/asia/13nuclear-b/13nuclear-b-articleLarge.jpg)
cnn now reporting 9500 people unaccounted for.
http://www.cnn.com/ (http://www.cnn.com/)
When nuclear scientists start going on national television acting scared as farg it's time to get concerned.
MIT dude was just on Today and he looked shtein-scared.
so is this funny yet? cause i made my first japan earthquake joke 2 days ago.
Did anyone laugh?
That's how you know if it's funny.
Quote from: MDS on March 12, 2011, 11:39:04 AM
so is this funny yet? cause i made my first japan earthquake joke 2 days ago.
Well? You gonna share it with us?
Nope.
My hero is that lady at the grocery store in that one clip trying to hold up the shelves in the wine aisle diring the eqrthquake while everyone else is running for cover. I want to marry her.
Son of a bitch, earthquake moved the coast of Japan 8 feet and shifted the Earth's axis!
inside Sendai airport as tsunami sweeps through
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_6iDBoOvb0&feature=player_embedded
Incredible. Still can't get over those cars trying their best to get away from the tsunami and then you see a few on that bridge with no where to go. The speed and power of these is just amazing.
Anyone want a nuclear power plant in their back yard now?
Well we can't have coal! maybe we should all have our own windmill and solar panels.
Maybe we should all use less energy too.
farg you you goddamn hippie.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 12, 2011, 08:23:44 PM
Maybe we should all use less energy too.
farg that! :-D
You are horrible people, you know that right?
I won't let you hurt my feelings.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 12, 2011, 07:44:33 PM
Anyone want a nuclear power plant in their back yard now?
I wouldn't mind. Nuclear energy is safe. A massive quake goes off and a tiny bit of radioactive material reached the air, the rest was contained. I don't see the big deal. Good luck getting people to use less electricity. And just an FYI plants supply enough energy to meet the publics needs, if the public cuts back the energy produced goes unused. I think you'd have a stronger case if there was an energy shortage.
Eat more whole grains.
Quote from: SD on March 12, 2011, 09:55:15 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on March 12, 2011, 07:44:33 PM
Anyone want a nuclear power plant in their back yard now?
I wouldn't mind. Nuclear energy is safe. A massive quake goes off and a tiny bit of radioactive material reached the air, the rest was contained. I don't see the big deal. Good luck getting people to use less electricity. And just an FYI plants supply enough energy to meet the publics needs, if the public cuts back the energy produced goes unused. I think you'd have a stronger case if there was an energy shortage.
Japanese energy minister now says meltdown likely occurring as we speak. Change your mind?
That's what I thought I heard, meltdown was high probability. Swell.
can they even see if there's actually a meltdown?
I have no idea how they "know" anything they "know" right now. Nothing I've read gives me any sense that anything involving these two plants is under any control at all. It's just happening, I'm afraid.
Good point. I think the term meltdown just refers to a nuclear reactor experiencing overheating. Wouldn't want to be close enough to see it myself.
The Flyers should fly to Sendai and give their insights on a meltdown.
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 12, 2011, 09:01:41 AM
cnn now reporting 9500 people unaccounted for.
http://www.cnn.com/ (http://www.cnn.com/)
250,000 plus died in indonesia on boxing day
yea but no one gives a shtein about indonesia
Pretty sure every major designer label out there cares.
including mitchell and ness
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 13, 2011, 12:13:08 AM
Pretty sure every major designer label out there cares.
yea cant they move that to bangladesh or cambodia or something
not exactly a major financial overhaul to build a shack and find 8 year olds willing to work for 14 cents an hour
Quote from: Don Ho on March 12, 2011, 11:12:58 PM
Good point. I think the term meltdown just refers to a nuclear reactor experiencing overheating. Wouldn't want to be close enough to see it myself.
The Flyers should fly to Sendai and give their insights on a meltdown.
A meltdown means the fuel rods have gotten so hot that they literally melt into a blob. Ever see the documentary about Chernobyl? They have what is called "the elephant's foot", which is an amorphous blob which was the nuclear core, which melted through the floor of the building housing it. They tried to chip off a piece to analyze it, and sent in a robot to do it, since the foot puts out enough rems per hour to kill a human in close proximity. The robot couldn't chip a piece off (it's all lead shielding and steel), and eventually the radiation fried the robot.
Chernobyl was an archaic piece of shtein, and fargushima is probably the best built nuclear facility in the world. A meltdown there won't be Chernobyl, but it will release lots of radioactive material into the environment, which obviously is bad.
As for evidence of a meltdown, the Japanese are detecting radioactive cesium in the air around fargushima. That's a byproduct of the fission process, and would only occur if the core was melting, ie aerosolizing the fuel rods.
some incredible video bubbling to the surface
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LPGzzaSsbU&feature=player_embedded
at 2:09 on the right side of the screen....
something big and fast is all....CEEEYAAA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cwPf5tbcB8&feature=related
Quote from: MMH on March 13, 2011, 08:41:04 AM
A meltdown means the fuel rods have gotten so hot that they literally melt into a blob. Ever see the documentary about Chernobyl? They have what is called "the elephant's foot", which is an amorphous blob which was the nuclear core, which melted through the floor of the building housing it. They tried to chip off a piece to analyze it, and sent in a robot to do it, since the foot puts out enough rems per hour to kill a human in close proximity. The robot couldn't chip a piece off (it's all lead shielding and steel), and eventually the radiation fried the robot.
Chernobyl was an archaic piece of shtein, and fargushima is probably the best built nuclear facility in the world. A meltdown there won't be Chernobyl, but it will release lots of radioactive material into the environment, which obviously is bad.
As for evidence of a meltdown, the Japanese are detecting radioactive cesium in the air around fargushima. That's a byproduct of the fission process, and would only occur if the core was melting, ie aerosolizing the fuel rods.
Well, a meltdown means melted fuel, period. It doesn't mean the whole core has melted into a blob. It also doesn't mean a large amount of radiation will necessarily be released; in most meltdowns (there have been about 12 in history) the vast majority of radiation is localized in the plant. Chernobyl had no containment building, which is one of the factors that made that accident so bad. Chernobyl also occurred while the core was critical (supercritical in fact), so the core blew itself apart, sending fission products everywhere. The Japanese reactors are shut down, but they are still generating heat from radioactive decay, and the cooling systems and their backups were apparently all affected by the earthquake and tsunami. This boric seawater plan they are talking about now was something designed into the plant, but it's among their last options.
Thus this is a much more controlled meltdown situation than Chernobyl. I suspect the results will be similar to that of Three Mile Island. Some fuel will melt and those cores will probably be lost. They will vent some radioactive gas to try to prevent additional hydrogen buildups, like that which caused the previous building explosion. There may be some other localized radiation, but nothing serious to the public. While this is probably the most serious nuclear incident since Chernobyl in terms of core damage, in terms of effects on people I'd say it's small potatoes compared to the enormous natural catastrophe that has just occurred.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 13, 2011, 08:55:27 AM
some incredible video bubbling to the surface
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LPGzzaSsbU&feature=player_embedded
Cool footage, but doesn't it seem particularly dumb to be hanging out next to moving fissures in the earth during an earthquake? I don't know what the real risk of those things quickly opening up wider is, but I don't think I would have stayed around to find out.
Whatever is actually happening, we know this much: these four plants are not going back online any time soon, and possibly never again. That's going to create a serious long term problem for the people of Japan.
Quote from: QB Eagles on March 13, 2011, 09:40:29 AMCool footage, but doesn't it seem particularly dumb to be hanging out next to moving fissures in the earth during an earthquake? I don't know what the real risk of those things quickly opening up wider is, but I don't think I would have stayed around to find out.
uhm yeah..I wouldn't be filming that either...but it sorta begs the question...where else do you go when the ground is opening up beneath your feet? run away from the ground?
farg nuclear power. hard.
Before and after pics:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/japan-quake-2011/beforeafter.htm
by this point, I've seen most of the videos available, but somehow this one got by me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APEsVeE7FGk&feature=related
street level view (at first) of tsunami rolling through town...then from above (the guy must have been able to climb something that didn't float away)
Quote from: MMH on March 12, 2011, 10:50:16 PM
Quote from: SD on March 12, 2011, 09:55:15 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on March 12, 2011, 07:44:33 PM
Anyone want a nuclear power plant in their back yard now?
I wouldn't mind. Nuclear energy is safe. A massive quake goes off and a tiny bit of radioactive material reached the air, the rest was contained. I don't see the big deal. Good luck getting people to use less electricity. And just an FYI plants supply enough energy to meet the publics needs, if the public cuts back the energy produced goes unused. I think you'd have a stronger case if there was an energy shortage.
Japanese energy minister now says meltdown likely occurring as we speak. Change your mind?
Absolutely not. Like I said, one of the biggest earthquakes in modern times followed by a huge tsunami and the damage is minimal.
Quote from: QB Eagles on March 13, 2011, 09:30:04 AM
Thus this is a much more controlled meltdown situation than Chernobyl. I suspect the results will be similar to that of Three Mile Island. Some fuel will melt and those cores will probably be lost. They will vent some radioactive gas to try to prevent additional hydrogen buildups, like that which caused the previous building explosion. There may be some other localized radiation, but nothing serious to the public. While this is probably the most serious nuclear incident since Chernobyl in terms of core damage, in terms of effects on people I'd say it's small potatoes compared to the enormous natural catastrophe that has just occurred.
Couldn't have said it better myself. When I was on the Reagan we did Nuke training and the possibility of a large amount of radioactive material spreading is highly unlikely. Even if missiles bombarded the ship it would take a million different things going wrong for there to be a leak on a large scale. A freakin 8.9 quake just rocked a nuke plant and the damage is minimal. The word 'meltdown' carries more weight than it should.
This article from cnn says everything is contained and no major disasters are imminent:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Also, can't forget:
(http://www.founditemclothing.com/t-shirts/gfx/toxic-cap2.jpg)
Yeah that's nice.
How about we put the controlled meltdown in your 'hood rather than mine, mkay? I'll even do you a solid and get my power elsewhere, if that makes you feel better in your tyvek jumpsuit.
you should move near the linc
Quote from: Diomedes on March 13, 2011, 11:16:12 AM
by this point, I've seen most of the videos available, but somehow this one got by me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APEsVeE7FGk&feature=related
street level view (at first) of tsunami rolling through town...then from above (the guy must have been able to climb something that didn't float away)
Holy shtein! Starts off as a little trickle and in seconds all helll breaks loose. Unbelievable.
No one will ever convince me that using nuclear power is a necessity we can't do without. The risks are staggeringly awful and far outweigh any benefits its use might provide.
There are 104 ticking time bombs in this country, many of which are far older than their original useful life. If that doesn't scare the farg out of you, especially in light of what happened in Japan, then there isn't much more I can say to convince you.
Sadly I think what's going to have to happen is a massive loss of human life and environmental damage beyond the scope of our ability to reason for us to STOP using them. Even then there will be naysayers who insist they're "safe". Like Dio said, you live by them. I'll pass, thanks.
Going forward nuclear power is one of our only viable options.
Yeah, the earthquake was big, and that's the point. We can't control what might happen, and the Japanese did it best, and are still overwhelmed.
One big happening (earthquake, tornado, volcano) and all hell can break loose over a much larger area than that affected by the natural disaster.
Good thing we don't need energy and fossil fuels are a totally sustainable source anyway.
So we're supposed to use a completely lethal form of energy simply because we don't have any viable alternative yet? That's brilliant.
Look, even if they can find a way to make it safer there's still the problem of the incredibly lethal waste that is produced as a by-product. And it stays lethal longer than the entire recorded history of the human race.
Like I posted earlier... I'll pass, thanks.
Quote from: Rome on March 13, 2011, 04:00:26 PMThere are 104 ticking time bombs in this country, many of which are far older than their original useful life. If that doesn't scare the farg out of you, especially in light of what happened in Japan, then there isn't much more I can say to convince you.
If there actually were 104 time bombs, that would be scary. Fortunately, they aren't time bombs, they are large industrial plants that, like any other kind of large industrial plant are susceptible to certain accidents in extreme situations. [Unlike coal power, nuclear power plants don't kill people simply by operating in their normal condition, however.] Western civilian nuclear power plants, of the type operated by the US, France, Japan, and many other countries, are among the most highly engineered and regulated technologies in the world.
Notice that when things do go wrong, like in Three Mile Island or in this Japanese situation.... no one actually dies. In fact the core could get in much worse shape and still not release lethal radiation doses to the general public. Sorry if that doesn't "scare the farg out of me". In 50 years, nuclear power has had one major accident that harmed the public, Chernobyl, which killed somewhere between 50 and 10,000 people (depending on the applicability of the controversial linear no-threshold model). And technologically and in terms of the competence of the people running it, Chernobyl is to a modern Western plant as the Titanic is to a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Does that mean it's impossible that an accident or natural disaster like this one could lead to someone getting harmed? Of course not, but the same is true for any other large industrial plant, or a host of other daily human activity.
Nuclear energy is a technology, not black magic. Like any other technology that's been around for 70 years, we know how to control it and are constantly making it better. Something like 40,000 people a year die on the American roads versus zero from nuclear power. People's sense of risk is totally of out whack because they hear the word "nuclear" and start imagining mushroom clouds (which is something that couldn't even happen at the worst WWII-era reactors). The death rate of nuclear power per GWy is on the same scale as hydro and wind power (and has even been calculated as being smaller than hydro and wind by an EU study). If nuclear power scares the farg out of you, I'd hate to see you when you're out driving on the highway.
Quote from: QB Eagles on March 13, 2011, 05:40:45 PMIf there actually were 104 time bombs, that would be scary. Fortunately, they aren't time bombs, they are large industrial plants that, like any other kind of large industrial plant are susceptible to certain accidents in extreme situations. [Unlike coal power, nuclear power plants don't kill people simply by operating in their normal condition, however.] Western civilian nuclear power plants, of the type operated by the US, France, Japan, and many other countries, are among the most highly engineered and regulated technologies in the world.
Notice that when things do go wrong, like in Three Mile Island or in this Japanese situation.... no one actually dies. In fact the core could get in much worse shape and still not release lethal radiation doses to the general public. Sorry if that doesn't "scare the farg out of me". In 50 years, nuclear power has had one major accident that harmed the public, Chernobyl, which killed somewhere between 50 and 10,000 people (depending on the applicability of the controversial linear no-threshold model). And technologically and in terms of the competence of the people running it, Chernobyl is to a modern Western plant as the Titanic is to a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Does that mean it's impossible that an accident or natural disaster like this one could lead to someone getting harmed? Of course not, but the same is true for any other large industrial plant, or a host of other daily human activity.
Nuclear energy is a technology, not black magic. Like any other technology that's been around for 70 years, we know how to control it and are constantly making it better. Something like 40,000 people a year die on the American roads versus zero from nuclear power. People's sense of risk is totally of out whack because they hear the word "nuclear" and start imagining mushroom clouds (which is something that couldn't even happen at the worst WWII-era reactors). The death rate of nuclear power per GWy is on the same scale as hydro and wind power (and has even been calculated as being smaller than hydro and wind by an EU study). If nuclear power scares the farg out of you, I'd hate to see you when you're out driving on the highway.
a.) awesome post (no sarcasm)
b.) still, NIMBY
QuoteUnlike coal power, nuclear power plants don't kill people simply by operating in their normal condition, however
True, especially the cogenerator plants using bogus environmental impact models. Hundreds of unregulated potentially toxic compounds are released by exploiting loopholes to burn low grade bituminous grade coal and worse. But the comparison is based on when nuke plants are working properly, which isn't the issue here. It's when they fail the is the issue.
QuoteNotice that when things do go wrong, like in Three Mile Island or in this Japanese situation.... no one actually dies
You are basing this assumption on what, exactly?
QuoteAnd technologically and in terms of the competence of the people running it, Chernobyl is to a modern Western plant as the Titanic is to a Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Does that mean it's impossible that an accident or natural disaster like this one could lead to someone getting harmed? Of course not, but the same is true for any other large industrial plant, or a host of other daily human activity.
But this ignores the potential damage of a failed coal plant vs the catastrophic consequences of a nuclear meltdown, which is like comparing a space shuttle to a spitball. Btw, the pollution caused by even a dirty coal plant at any given time will be cleared from the atmosphere within months. The half life of uranium-235 is 700 million years (meaning that if a kilo of U-235 is washed out into the environment, dispersed into the atmosphere etc., in 700 million years there will still be a half a kilogram left of radioactive U-235. A least it's not like U-238, which has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That would be a bummer of an accident.
Notice how proponents use completely unrelated risks like driving on a highway to counter arguments against nuclear power?
Red herring arguments rule.
So whats the alternative? Some are bitching about nuclear power, but what else is there?
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 13, 2011, 07:01:30 PM
So whats the alternative? Some are bitching about nuclear power, but what else is there?
Use less/Stop wasting.
Solar
Wind
Tidal
who knows....we haven't actually tried anything else yet.
oil and gas aren't going to run out tomorrow, so in the time we have before they do, we ought to be investing heavily in finding ways to use less energy and create clean or renewable energies.
we went to the goddamn moon, this should be cake
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/03/13/world/13japan-quake-511/13japan-quake-511-custom17.jpg)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/13/2011-03-13_hundreds_flee_in_japan_after_shinmoedake_volcano_begins_spewing_ash_boulders.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/03/13/2011-03-13_hundreds_flee_in_japan_after_shinmoedake_volcano_begins_spewing_ash_boulders.html)
:o
Godzilla is on his way next
Anyone heard about the looting going on down there?
Oh right, there is none.
Unless you count stealing hearts around the world. F'n well organized well behaved civilized people over there when push comes to shove.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 13, 2011, 09:12:24 PM
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/03/13/world/13japan-quake-511/13japan-quake-511-custom17.jpg)
You know, you can get a ticket for that
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/03/12/quake.response/#
In the U.S., we send nuclear powered war boats to help tsunami victims. I don't know how fighter jets can help these poor people, but yay America?
The same people who crow about this awe inspiring response, which could obviously be accomplished for a lot less money than sending a goddamn nuclear war airport, are waging war on teachers, nurses, and any other worker bold enough to ask for fair treatment.
Cut the goddamn military.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 13, 2011, 11:08:07 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12725646
sweet jesus
any time people think we own this planet they need to see that video.
Quote from: Eagaholic on March 13, 2011, 06:56:52 PM
QuoteNotice that when things do go wrong, like in Three Mile Island or in this Japanese situation.... no one actually dies
You are basing this assumption on what, exactly?
TMI has been well-studied. Based on a conservative assumption about the (still not well understood) health effects of very low-dose radiation, there could be one excess cancer death worldwide as a result of what happened there. The Japanese situation could still change, but given what I know about how the plants operate, what I know about what has happened to the plants, and the expertise of the Japanese nuclear community, I'd be very surprised if this turned into something that affected the public (other than the lost electricity). I have a masters degree in nuclear engineering and have been working exclusively on reactor protection for over five years now, so I have some understanding of what is happening in those plants. I am not interested in being a shill for any industry though... my motivation is to help other people understand what is going on, and I'd do the same if what was going on was a lot worse. This is a condition that is literally getting better by the hour as the most radioactive parts of the core decay into safer isotopes. Remember that these cores have been shut down since the earthquake.
There were some people who died at the plants, not because of any accident or nuclear event, but because they got hit by a farging tsunami. It's actually pretty damn impressive the condition the plant is in, while they are stacking bodies like cord wood right down the street. In fact, if they had to, they might have been able to keep the plant running were it not for the loss of external grid power (due to washed away power lines), which powers the plant's pumps. There are probably some very heroic individuals who have been working at the power station these last few days.
QuoteBut this ignores the potential damage of a failed coal plant vs the catastrophic consequences of a nuclear meltdown, which is like comparing a space shuttle to a spitball. Btw, the pollution caused by even a dirty coal plant at any given time will be cleared from the atmosphere within months. The half life of uranium-235 is 700 million years (meaning that if a kilo of U-235 is washed out into the environment, dispersed into the atmosphere etc., in 700 million years there will still be a half a kilogram left of radioactive U-235. A least it's not like U-238, which has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That would be a bummer of an accident.
You have it exactly backwards. Long half-lives mean that the substance is much less radioactive (as in, it takes much longer to decay because it releases fewer radioactive particles). Uranium is quite safe for anything other than ingestion. You can safely hold it and you probably have a lot more of it around you than you think. It becomes much more dangerous when it decays into radon, which has a half-life on the order of a few days, and which is an imperceptible gas that you can breathe in.
The most problematic isotopes in nuclear accidents (or bombs) are cesium-137 and strontium-90. They both have half lives around 30 years. That's long enough to hang around, but short enough to still be intensely radioactive. And biologically, both elements get taken up into the body and kept there. But even with this nasty stuff, low doses are okay.
You may have heard about some venting of radioactive gas. That stuff is from the coolant and isn't so bad, especially when dispersed in the atmosphere. The meltdown potential is more serious because that's how things like cesium and strontium break out of the fuel rods. But right now, these reactor cores still have shielding and containment around them. They aren't throwing that shtein all over the area like Chernobyl did.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 13, 2011, 10:44:04 PM
Anyone heard about the looting going on down there?
Oh right, there is none.
Unless you count stealing hearts around the world. F'n well organized well behaved civilized people over there when push comes to shove.
That is exactly what the Mrs. and I were saying. They showed people standing in a line for water that looked endless. Complete calm and order.
I did get pissed watching a clip from Good Morning America. The woman doing the news said "Fighting in the streets is breaking out in Hawaii" as the tsunami warning was in effect. Hardly. Very impressed with how everyone reacted. I was at the local Longs Drugs loading up on the essentials that night and people were helping elderly and women with young kids load their carts with cases of bottled water. There was not one reported incident of any kind of violent reactions.
is this conversation a thinly veiled racist shot at black people from new orleans?
Quote from: Diomedes on March 13, 2011, 09:03:23 AM
at 2:09 on the right side of the screen....
something big and fast is all....CEEEYAAA!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cwPf5tbcB8&feature=related
Russian or U.S. UFO that had to get out with the quickness. I think U.S. uses both black and gray UFO technology. Russia is only beginning to use black.
Its a helicopter shadow.
Quote from: hbionic on March 14, 2011, 02:46:11 PM
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 14, 2011, 02:39:49 PM
Its a helicopter shadow.
...that appears out of nowhere.
here is the zoomed out view and you can clearly see its a helicopter.
link?
OK George Noory.
Just when you think Glen Beck can't possibly get any worse, this shtein rolls out of the sewer between his ears:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/14/glenn-beck-japan-earthquake-god_n_835573.html
What a vile disgusting piece of shtein motherfarger.
when all else fails, blame jehova.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 11, 2011, 11:10:28 AM
Absolutely. I can't wait for the "God did this to Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor" rhetoric.
Meh....close enough.
so since Hiroshima and Nagasaki were payback for pearl harbor...this quake is double payback? or is it gods payback?
inquiring minds would like to know
payback for Japan's car companies beating out the white man's car companies
Quote from: QB Eagles on March 14, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Quote from: Eagaholic on March 13, 2011, 06:56:52 PM
QuoteNotice that when things do go wrong, like in Three Mile Island or in this Japanese situation.... no one actually dies
You are basing this assumption on what, exactly?
TMI has been well-studied. Based on a conservative assumption about the (still not well understood) health effects of very low-dose radiation, there could be one excess cancer death worldwide as a result of what happened there. The Japanese situation could still change, but given what I know about how the plants operate, what I know about what has happened to the plants, and the expertise of the Japanese nuclear community, I'd be very surprised if this turned into something that affected the public (other than the lost electricity). I have a masters degree in nuclear engineering and have been working exclusively on reactor protection for over five years now, so I have some understanding of what is happening in those plants. I am not interested in being a shill for any industry though... my motivation is to help other people understand what is going on, and I'd do the same if what was going on was a lot worse. This is a condition that is literally getting better by the hour as the most radioactive parts of the core decay into safer isotopes. Remember that these cores have been shut down since the earthquake.
There were some people who died at the plants, not because of any accident or nuclear event, but because they got hit by a farging tsunami. It's actually pretty damn impressive the condition the plant is in, while they are stacking bodies like cord wood right down the street. In fact, if they had to, they might have been able to keep the plant running were it not for the loss of external grid power (due to washed away power lines), which powers the plant's pumps. There are probably some very heroic individuals who have been working at the power station these last few days.
QuoteBut this ignores the potential damage of a failed coal plant vs the catastrophic consequences of a nuclear meltdown, which is like comparing a space shuttle to a spitball. Btw, the pollution caused by even a dirty coal plant at any given time will be cleared from the atmosphere within months. The half life of uranium-235 is 700 million years (meaning that if a kilo of U-235 is washed out into the environment, dispersed into the atmosphere etc., in 700 million years there will still be a half a kilogram left of radioactive U-235. A least it's not like U-238, which has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That would be a bummer of an accident.
You have it exactly backwards. Long half-lives mean that the substance is much less radioactive (as in, it takes much longer to decay because it releases fewer radioactive particles). Uranium is quite safe for anything other than ingestion. You can safely hold it and you probably have a lot more of it around you than you think. It becomes much more dangerous when it decays into radon, which has a half-life on the order of a few days, and which is an imperceptible gas that you can breathe in.
The most problematic isotopes in nuclear accidents (or bombs) are cesium-137 and strontium-90. They both have half lives around 30 years. That's long enough to hang around, but short enough to still be intensely radioactive. And biologically, both elements get taken up into the body and kept there. But even with this nasty stuff, low doses are okay.
You may have heard about some venting of radioactive gas. That stuff is from the coolant and isn't so bad, especially when dispersed in the atmosphere. The meltdown potential is more serious because that's how things like cesium and strontium break out of the fuel rods. But right now, these reactor cores still have shielding and containment around them. They aren't throwing that shtein all over the area like Chernobyl did.
QB...taking yous to school
Yes, he really is. It would be even cooler if he were posting his reassurances from fargushima, though. That would be super.
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 14, 2011, 02:39:49 PM
Its a helicopter shadow.
I think it was a dolphin which suddenly realized it didn't want to be that close to land, and hit the jets.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110314/wl_nm/us_japan_quake_explosion
A third explosion is now being reported.
Nevermind the occasional massive explosion, everything is under control, Nuclear power is safe.
QB and MMH help raise the IQ level around here. Without them we'd be in trouble.
Quote from: QB Eagles on March 14, 2011, 01:03:27 AM
Quote from: Eagaholic on March 13, 2011, 06:56:52 PM
QuoteNotice that when things do go wrong, like in Three Mile Island or in this Japanese situation.... no one actually dies
You are basing this assumption on what, exactly?
TMI has been well-studied. Based on a conservative assumption about the (still not well understood) health effects of very low-dose radiation, there could be one excess cancer death worldwide as a result of what happened there. The Japanese situation could still change, but given what I know about how the plants operate, what I know about what has happened to the plants, and the expertise of the Japanese nuclear community, I'd be very surprised if this turned into something that affected the public (other than the lost electricity). I have a masters degree in nuclear engineering and have been working exclusively on reactor protection for over five years now, so I have some understanding of what is happening in those plants. I am not interested in being a shill for any industry though... my motivation is to help other people understand what is going on, and I'd do the same if what was going on was a lot worse. This is a condition that is literally getting better by the hour as the most radioactive parts of the core decay into safer isotopes. Remember that these cores have been shut down since the earthquake.
There were some people who died at the plants, not because of any accident or nuclear event, but because they got hit by a farging tsunami. It's actually pretty damn impressive the condition the plant is in, while they are stacking bodies like cord wood right down the street. In fact, if they had to, they might have been able to keep the plant running were it not for the loss of external grid power (due to washed away power lines), which powers the plant's pumps. There are probably some very heroic individuals who have been working at the power station these last few days.
QuoteBut this ignores the potential damage of a failed coal plant vs the catastrophic consequences of a nuclear meltdown, which is like comparing a space shuttle to a spitball. Btw, the pollution caused by even a dirty coal plant at any given time will be cleared from the atmosphere within months. The half life of uranium-235 is 700 million years (meaning that if a kilo of U-235 is washed out into the environment, dispersed into the atmosphere etc., in 700 million years there will still be a half a kilogram left of radioactive U-235. A least it's not like U-238, which has a half life of 4.5 billion years. That would be a bummer of an accident.
You have it exactly backwards. Long half-lives mean that the substance is much less radioactive (as in, it takes much longer to decay because it releases fewer radioactive particles). Uranium is quite safe for anything other than ingestion. You can safely hold it and you probably have a lot more of it around you than you think. It becomes much more dangerous when it decays into radon, which has a half-life on the order of a few days, and which is an imperceptible gas that you can breathe in.
The most problematic isotopes in nuclear accidents (or bombs) are cesium-137 and strontium-90. They both have half lives around 30 years. That's long enough to hang around, but short enough to still be intensely radioactive. And biologically, both elements get taken up into the body and kept there. But even with this nasty stuff, low doses are okay.
You may have heard about some venting of radioactive gas. That stuff is from the coolant and isn't so bad, especially when dispersed in the atmosphere. The meltdown potential is more serious because that's how things like cesium and strontium break out of the fuel rods. But right now, these reactor cores still have shielding and containment around them. They aren't throwing that shtein all over the area like Chernobyl did.
TMI has been studied but the results have been controversial and mixed. However, it doesn't matter. The fact is there
could have been catastrophic results even if there wasn't and we should consider ourselves lucky. And there could be in the future, whether by natural disaster, acts of terrorism, war, human error, mechanical failure or whatever. In the end, risk versus benefit must be the bottom line and nothing in the energy industry poses greater potential risk than nuclear power. As Dio had mentioned, wind, solar, wave, 2nd and 3rd generation sustainable and renewable sources and such need to be as heavily invested in as the nuclear, coal and oil industries. Even now in Japan, they are trying to prevent meltdowns in all 3 reactors. Again, we should consider it lucky if a major nuclear disaster is averted rather than an Andy Reidesque 'we'll be fine there.' This is where common sense trumps science.
This third explosion may be trouble; its origin seems different than the first two, which were simple hydrogen explosions. Waiting for more info.
It seems pretty clear that they're losing control. The farging genie is out of the bottle and they can't get it back in. Wonderful.
Well with any luck the death cloud won't reach the US. Or at least it will reach the Palin's first.
Actual info about the third explosion is difficult to come by right now. I'm hearing conflicting things, which have radically different implications for the integrity of reactor #2. Part of the problem is that actual confirmed information is getting mixed up with rampant media speculation.
Supposedly there will be a news conference in about five minutes which will hopefully clear some things up. I want to hear specifically if they know anything about the integrity of both the "suppression pool" below the reactor, and the various layers of containment.
All is well, Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta are on site. Whew.
The statements that are being released by the Japanese government are pretty sketchy.
Quote from: hbionic on March 14, 2011, 03:46:20 PM
link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0l6z0HaUAM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0l6z0HaUAM)
Sorry, same time frame, right at 2:09. suck it Godzilla freaks!
Okay. Here's my understanding of the situation right now.
Reactor #1 and #3 (the ones with the exploded outer buildings due to hygrogen buildup) still require water injection but are by far the most stable at the site right now.
Reactor building #4 (which was a shut-down reactor prior to the quake) was set on fire by falling debris from the hygrogen explosion of Reactor #3. This is something they have to get on top of immediately before it spreads. It's not an operating reactor in there, but there is spent fuel and radiation from the prior operation of the plant. This fire is probably contributing the most radiation at the moment, and could scale up with the scale of the fire.
Reactor #2 worries me the most. Currently it is not releasing much radiation, but there seems to be some kind of unspecified damage to the containment structure. It may be fine in its current state, but if the situation in this reactor degrades significantly (for example, if a hydrogen explosion similar to #1 or #3) occurs there, potential exists for a major escalation of the crisis.
This is still a miniscule event compared to the scale of the earthquake/tsunami, but the situation has degraded, and has certainly become dangerous for some of the people at the plant.
qb do you work for the nuclear energy lobby?
I have the same employer as you, Uncle Sam.
then you get caked off by the nuclear energy lobby?
I don't get caked off by anybody. I have zero connection to the civilian nuclear industry. I'm giving you the information as best I understand it. If you'd rather get your nuclear engineering info from some journalism major working for TIME Magazine, be my guest.
i could care less about it until it explodes and blows over hanover but for whatever reason you seem to be balls deep into nukes
As I said upthread, I work on reactor protection for the feds. Military, to be specific.
and I think most people enjoy your insight. go jerk off to pictures of shirtless black athletes and leave us alone igy.
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 14, 2011, 11:05:27 PM
go jerk off to pictures of shirtless black athletes and leave us alone igy.
lol...who is "us"....the dozens of nuclear reactor fans on the board...or are you referring to your many different screen names
I can confirm that Hanover will be 100% safe.
I've always been curious about nuclear reactors since I grew up close to Limerick.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42066534?gt1=43001
"Spewing radiation" and "stay inside or risk radiation poisoning" can't be good. Are all these Japanese houses made of lead? GTFO!
Getting worse and worse by the minute.
But nuclear power is safe!
But hey, at least no one knows if the used fuel rods are still being cooled. Or secure. So there's that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Our closest reactor to this area. About an hour south of Los Angeles....30 minutes south of Anaheim....located in south orange county. Looks like a pair of tits when you drive by.
Igy's just pissed cause someone else actually knows more about nuclear power then him. I mean come on, IGY spends more time drooling and believing in a team that has no chance making it farther then Temple and yet he finds time to rip and dog the other 3 major teams in the city. Never mind that the Phils/Eagles and Flyers are closer (and have been since 2001) then the almighty unbeatable sixers. Come on people!! The sixers are going to sweep Da Bulls!!
Quote from: hbionic on March 15, 2011, 01:38:52 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Our closest reactor to this area. About an hour south of Los Angeles....30 minutes south of Anaheim....located in south orange county. Looks like a pair of tits when you drive by.
Yeah Chuggie, you got a couple of real gems out there in Cali, built on fault lines. One of which is only constructed to withstand a 7.5 magnitude quake. If there was a 9.0 there like Japan it would be 200 times stronger than the 7.5 it was designed to handle. Wtf are they thinking, only a 7.5? On a FAULT LINE. Makes New Orleans levy system look like Fort Knox. WTF??
And I'd gladly bet the 20 spot I won of igy last year, that the sixers don't make it out of the 1st round!
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 14, 2011, 11:15:31 PM
Quote from: mpmcgraw on March 14, 2011, 11:05:27 PM
go jerk off to pictures of shirtless black athletes and leave us alone igy.
lol...who is "us"....the dozens of nuclear reactor fans on the board...or are you referring to your many different screen names
Lol at "your many screen names". But I will agree with him that I appreciate the knowledge and input QB brings to the discussion even though I disagree with his point of view and most of his arguments.
Quote from: hbionic on March 15, 2011, 01:38:52 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Onofre_Nuclear_Generating_Station
Our closest reactor to this area. About an hour south of Los Angeles....30 minutes south of Anaheim....located in south orange county. Looks like a pair of tits when you drive by.
Trestles, one of the best surf breaks in California. Always wondered about the water there though.
"They're saying" no threat of nuclear fallout hitting the US. Correct me if I'm wrong QB but did not the Japanese launch balloons carrying bombs with the intention of having them make it to the west coast of the US and detonate? Some did make it to the west coast traveling along the Pacific jet stream. Could not radiation distributed into the atmosphere during these meltdowns make it to the Pacific Northwest? Hawaii? :paranoid
Quote from: Don Ho on March 15, 2011, 05:18:17 AM
"They're saying" no threat of nuclear fallout hitting the US. Correct me if I'm wrong QB but did not the Japanese launch balloons carrying bombs with the intention of having them make it to the west coast of the US and detonate? Some did make it to the west coast traveling along the Pacific jet stream. Could not radiation distributed into the atmosphere during these meltdowns make it to the Pacific Northwest? Hawaii? :paranoid
It's a matter of scale. We are constantly being bathed by natural radiation from outer space, rocks, soil.... even potassium and carbon from inside our own bodies. It remains to be seen exactly how much radiation was released into the atmosphere by the worst event thus far at the station (yesterday's spent fuel fire at reactor #4), but it won't be enough to appreciably raise this background level anywhere in the US. The radiation release
may be detectable by sensitive instruments that are able to detect particles that could only come from spent fuel (again, it depends on the scale of the release), but the effects won't be any different than the background radiation. You would get more radiation from flying in an airplane or moving to an area (like Colorado) with a higher background dose. Right now we can't even say that a harmful amount has been released to the civilian population in that part of Japan, let alone the rest of the world.
The radiation numbers they were quoting at the peak of the danger yesterday very close to the source wouldn't be a big public concern, but it will probably take some time and study to know if that really was the peak of how much was released. It would have been a concern if someone was working in those high-radiation areas very near the source for about an hour or more, so it's possible that there will be health implications for some workers at the plant. As of now this event reminds me of the Windscale fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire).
We all know what the worst case scenario is here but say the absolute worst doesn't happen and the area isn't uninhabitable for 50 years. How bad is it going to be on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being Chernobyl. I mean, all we keep hearing is how "wonderful" the design was to be able to withstand such a horrific earthquake & tsunami, but it can't be all that wonderful if explosions are happening on a daily basis, and radiation is being spewed into the air with increasing intensity & frequency.
Seriously... you're the expert & I defer to you in this matter. How terrified should we be at this point?
Thank god I missed all of this.
I actually think that this has the potential to be nuclear power's shining moment. Major explosions at multiple power plants after one of the biggest combination natural disasters in recorded history and no major leaks or threats to the population? That would have been unthinkable even 20 years ago and is a pretty amazing achievement.
I've done a little reading on nuclear power because it's one of those things that I go back and forth about. As this whole thing illustrates, the issue these days is far less about major accidents and much more about the by-products of the process. People are actively working on solutions to nuclear waste problem, and there are some pretty cool options but I've never understood why we don't just launch the shtein into space. Bye bye, waste. Hello angry alien invasions.
yeah cause i am hearing some say this is bad and others saying whats being released is comparable to a dental xray.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=229300990
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 08:15:07 AM
Thank god I missed all of this.
I actually think that this has the potential to be nuclear power's shining moment. Major explosions at multiple power plants after one of the biggest combination natural disasters in recorded history and no major leaks or threats to the population? That would have been unthinkable even 20 years ago and is a pretty amazing achievement.
I've done a little reading on nuclear power because it's one of those things that I go back and forth about. As this whole thing illustrates, the issue these days is far less about major accidents and much more about the by-products of the process. People are actively working on solutions to nuclear waste problem, and there are some pretty cool options but I've never understood why we don't just launch the shtein into space. Bye bye, waste. Hello angry alien invasions.
My guess is the $$$ it takes to launch shtein into space.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on March 15, 2011, 12:20:53 PM
http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=229300990
Quoteblatant errors regarding physics and natural law, as well as gross misinterpretation of facts
yep, sounds like today's media for sure.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 08:15:07 AM
Thank god I missed all of this.
I actually think that this has the potential to be nuclear power's shining moment. Major explosions at multiple power plants after one of the biggest combination natural disasters in recorded history and no major leaks or threats to the population? That would have been unthinkable even 20 years ago and is a pretty amazing achievement.
I've done a little reading on nuclear power because it's one of those things that I go back and forth about. As this whole thing illustrates, the issue these days is far less about major accidents and much more about the by-products of the process. People are actively working on solutions to nuclear waste problem, and there are some pretty cool options but I've never understood why we don't just launch the shtein into space. Bye bye, waste. Hello angry alien invasions.
Agree with most of this.
People dismissing the benefits to nuclear energy out of hand because of this are short sighted.
I agree with rjs.
Tragedy over, cute puppies survived. (http://www.myfoxaustin.com/dpps/news/two-pet-dogs-defy-tsunami-in-japan-dpgonc-20110315-fc_12328681#)
Considering rockets never blow up, launching them into space loaded with the deadliest substances ever created is an excellent idea.
And by the way... this can't be good news, can it? Or maybe the French are wrong here:
Incident now rated a "6" on a 1-7 scale. (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/japan-quake-nuclear-france-idUSLDE72E2M920110315)
Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on March 15, 2011, 12:54:36 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 08:15:07 AM
Thank god I missed all of this.
I actually think that this has the potential to be nuclear power's shining moment. Major explosions at multiple power plants after one of the biggest combination natural disasters in recorded history and no major leaks or threats to the population? That would have been unthinkable even 20 years ago and is a pretty amazing achievement.
I've done a little reading on nuclear power because it's one of those things that I go back and forth about. As this whole thing illustrates, the issue these days is far less about major accidents and much more about the by-products of the process. People are actively working on solutions to nuclear waste problem, and there are some pretty cool options but I've never understood why we don't just launch the shtein into space. Bye bye, waste. Hello angry alien invasions.
Agree with most of this.
People dismissing the benefits to nuclear energy out of hand because of this are short sighted.
Damn straight. And I give Russell a lot credit for that post
People die in car accidents every day. I guess we should ban them too. There are safer alternatives like walking, riding a bike and mass transit.
Yeah except a car accident might kill a few people, injure a few others, and be cleaned up and over with in a few hours.
A worst case scenario meltdown can leave entire places of the earth uninhabitable, and spread poison over hundreds of more miles.
I think one's just a little bit different than the other.
Fire again at reactor 4.
I'm going back into my bunker.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 08:15:07 AM
Blah
Save the Nukes!!
...but I've never understood why we don't just launch the shtein into space. Bye bye, waste. Hello angry alien invasions.
Instead of just space, why not launch the waste into the sun? Find out what the fusion process thinks of spent fission fuel
Quote from: SD on March 15, 2011, 06:08:08 PM
Damn straight. And I give Russell a lot credit for that post
I will not say thank you for this backhanded compliment. I'm really not the environmental quack that you think I am. I used to be a doubter, denier, mocker just like you. But I also read. A lot. And there just isn't any way to reconcile the science with the idea that humans aren't involved with what's happening to the planet.
That said, global warming totally caused the tsunami. Totally. Literally.
Quote from: Tomahawk on March 15, 2011, 07:41:28 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 08:15:07 AM
Blah
Save the Nukes!!
...but I've never understood why we don't just launch the shtein into space. Bye bye, waste. Hello angry alien invasions.
Instead of just space, why not launch the waste into the sun? Find out what the fusion process thinks of spent fission fuel
Outstanding idea and textbook use of the quote function. Solid work all around.
Are you guys keeping up with this?
The situation is dire.
There are legends being made, heroic men and women exposing themselves to death by radiation poisoning, because it is literally them, or no one keeping these things at bay. And they really might not succeed.
This shtein isn't a sure deal to all work out in the end.
CNN.com barely counts as news.
Having said that I'm not saying that this IS a great moment for nuclear power. But if things turn out to be a non issue it will be a huge deal.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 10:34:38 PM
CNN.com barely counts as news.
Having said that I'm not saying that this IS a great moment for nuclear power. But if things turn out to be a non issue it will be a huge deal.
Agreed.
I'm not getting any of this from CNN.
I posted after reading these articles:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16nuclear.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16workers.html
I absolutely love the nytimes, but let's not pretend that they don't have an agenda.
read the articles icehole
it's good reporting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/latest-nuclear-plant-explosion-in-japan-raises-radiation-fears/2011/03/15/ABwTmha_story.html?hpid=z1
Another frightening article.
Or does the Post have an agenda too?
Does everyone have an agenda? Nothing can be trusted, it's all farging bullshtein?
The best reporting on this so far that I've been exposed to has been NPR. During the first 15 minutes of Talk of the Nation, their science correspondent Jon Hamilton told the story in by far the most accurate and informative fashion that I've heard. Not much in the way of speculation, just the facts and what they mean.
The Beeb and Reuters have been doing OK as well. Most of the media reporting has been awful... not just wrong or sensationalistic, but also confusing and contradictory. Unsurprisingly, cable news has been the sewer, but newspapers in general have done a poor job as well.
Yeah, I listen to a lot of NPR as well.
in fact, I read this bit tonight before the others I've posted:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/03/15/134576215/at-their-own-risk-what-will-happen-to-the-fargushima-workers
Quote from: Diomedes on March 15, 2011, 10:49:35 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/latest-nuclear-plant-explosion-in-japan-raises-radiation-fears/2011/03/15/ABwTmha_story.html?hpid=z1
Another frightening article.
Or does the Post have an agenda too?
Does everyone have an agenda? Nothing can be trusted, it's all farging bullshtein?
The thing I don't understand about that story is that it says the radiation danger is coming from unit #2, but they quote no numbers (one sure sign of a zesty story). All the numbers I've seen show much more radiation coming from #3 and #4.
Agenda!
Oh and I just checked CNN.com, the best news site ever, and they are saying all workers have been evacuated.
I guess their work is done and it's all good.
NPR is the shtein and is where I get most of my news. Also Dio is getting all fired up about nothing no one is saying that the situation is all settled and all is well. But people have a misguided and delusional sense of risk. If a massive event like this results in little or no issue that is huge.
You farging drama queen.
Btw I'll read the nytimes articles tomorrow when I should be working. Why would I read them tonight while I'm drinking?
The workers left during a radiation spike and have already returned according to MSNBC (which I'm trying to confirm elsewhere since theyve been awful). Though it remains to be seen whether health-affecting levels of radiation have reached the Japanese public, I do think that those within the plant have been putting themselves at risk. They are heroes.
Every form of energy generation carries risk. A burst dam during the earthquake killed about a dozen people after washing away their homes, and yet this reactor crisis, so far linked to zero deaths, means that nuclear power is unacceptable. Cost/benefit is a sober analysis, not an emotional decision made during moments of panic.
another dose of propaganda from the super liberal anti-american NYTimes:
the plant design employed here is a sort of cheaper, less safe nuclear plant design
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=nuclear%20plant%20design&st=cse
Dio's got a real thorn in his ass about this.
i can not believe that a news source would ever print or post something that isn't 100% factual and/or have any type of agenda behind it.
never happens. doesnt when it comes to politics and certainly not here. :-X
Quote from: rjs246 on March 15, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
I absolutely love the nytimes, but let's not pretend that they don't have an agenda.
In the excruciatingly sober light of day I'd like to retract this statement. The NYT is unabashedly liberal, but I don't actually believe that they have an explicit agenda to promote stereotypically liberal points of view.
Also those two articles were not exactly pro or anti nuke. They just talked about the situation and the workers who have stayed behind. As everyone else has agreed, those who stayed behind should be revered. There is no way for them to know how their health will be impacted and they are doing a necessary job voluntarily. I'm still comfortable saying that this could be a huge win for nuclear power. So there.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 16, 2011, 06:25:47 AM
another dose of propaganda from the super liberal anti-american NYTimes:
the plant design employed here is a sort of cheaper, less safe nuclear plant design
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=nuclear%20plant%20design&st=cse
A thought about this article specifically:
It's arguing that design flaws exist, and yet this situation is still basically contained. A flawed, 30+ year old complex gets buttfarged by an enormous natural disaster and yet it still isn't leading to a massive risk to the population. That should actually put everyone's mind at ease if people are thinking rationally.
Also, if we're going to throw a hissy fit over design flaws, we have to recognize that the multi-decade slow-down in utilization/expansion of nuclear power has a huge impact there. Design and technology should have been improving over the years, allowing newer, safer plants to be the norm and older plants to be retired. But fear and irrational midsunderstanding of risk has basically stopped the industry in its tracks. Serious capital (intellectual and monetary) should have been spent on addressing the issues of waste and safety improvements rendering these concerns obsolete or insignificant. Insteads we've quaked in our boots at the idea of another Chernobyl, despite the fact that another Chernobyl is basically impossible.
Well said. The disaster should spur further innovation and design refinement and not lead to a knee jerk "no nuclear plant" reaction.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 11, 2011, 11:10:28 AM
Absolutely. I can't wait for the "God did this to Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor" rhetoric.
Bullseye! (http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2011-03-14/wnba-player-cappie-pondexter-apologizes-for-japan-tweets)
Quote"What if God was tired of the way they treated their own people in there own country! Idk guys he makes no mistakes," Pondexter tweeted on Saturday"
"u just never knw! They did pearl harbor so u can't expect anything less."
Too bad it wasn't said by someone that anyone has ever heard of. It's funny though because she was 1 yr removed from Rutgers when Imus made his comments and she's on record saying at the time that he should be suspended.
haa, that is awesome.
I'm sure she'll be a guest on the 700 Club in the days to come.
Quote
Rush Limbaugh finds it funny that a natural disaster struck Japan-a country that has made such strides towards being environmentally friendly.
On Tuesday the radio host chatted with a caller who referenced the irony that "Gaia" (Mother Earth in Greek Mythology) lashed out at Japan. Limbaugh laughed about how the tsunami hit the very same spot where the one of the leading green vehicles was invented.
"What kind of payback is this?" Rush asked. "That is an excellent question. They invented the Prius. In fact, where Gaia blew up is right where they make all these electric cars. That's where the tsunami hit."
"What is Gaia trying to tell us here? What is the mother of environmentalism trying to say with this hit?" he continued.
Limbaugh also took a jab at Diane Sawyer who has been covering the devastation in Japan and, more specifically, at her report on shelter refugees and how they've been dealing with waste management and debris.
Sawyer was amazed at how a gathering place for people whose homes had been destroyed still made it a point to organize a system for recycling within the shelter. Limbaugh likened her remarks to someone talking to a group of children.
"This is almost like a kindergarten teacher talking to the four year olds," Limbaugh remarked. "That is how old you are in kindergarten, right? Five? Five? Four? Alright. This is -- some of these people here for days and look, look it's recycling, organized for recycling."
Thankfully, the next caller abruptly shifted the conversation to another type of madness—March Madness.
ok so we've heard from glenn beck & now rush, all we need now for is a quote or two from hannity.
Let me get this straight......the earth is punishing Japan for inventing vehicles that won't deplete the earth of all of it's energy sources. Makes total sense.
yeah, gaia must be in bed with the oil companies like the tea baggers.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 16, 2011, 12:00:41 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 11, 2011, 11:10:28 AM
Absolutely. I can't wait for the "God did this to Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor" rhetoric.
Bullseye! (http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/story/2011-03-14/wnba-player-cappie-pondexter-apologizes-for-japan-tweets)
Quote"What if God was tired of the way they treated their own people in there own country! Idk guys he makes no mistakes," Pondexter tweeted on Saturday"
"u just never knw! They did pearl harbor so u can't expect anything less."
Too bad it wasn't said by someone that anyone has ever heard of. It's funny though because she was 1 yr removed from Rutgers when Imus made his comments and she's on record saying at the time that he should be suspended.
She should probably realize Japan paid more than enough penance by having at least half the populations of Hiroshima and Nagasaki eradicated, and then shut up
She probably thinks Hiroshima and Nagasaki are two characters from Pokeman.
so i assume everything is fixed now yes?
Apparently Black Eyed Peas shot a music video in Japan and left like a few hours or maybe a day before the quake hit. Somewhere in Richmond, VA, Russell is weeping.
God really is punishing the country, then.
QuoteAccording to conservative columnist Ann Coulter, this whole Japanese nuclear crisis is overblown and "radiation is actually good for you" and the media isn't reporting its benefits enough.
On The O'Reilly Factor last night, Coulter spoke about her recent column that cites a number of articles in the New York Times and "a stunning number of physicists" showing radiation has a positive effect on cancer patients.
A skeptical O'Reilly retorted Coulter's evidence with this, "by your account we should all be heading for the nuclear reactor leaking and kind of sunbathing out there in front of -- come on."
Coulter responded by citing a study, mentioned by the Times , held in Canada finding that tuberculosis patients subjected to multiple chest X-rays had much lower rates of breast cancer than the general population. "There may be some doses of radiation in the human body can ward off infection," she said.
Joking aside, O'Reilly wanted Coulter to be "responsible" and admit that "some radiation will kill you." Coulter refused.
What a funhole
She is. But this is the first I've heard from her in quite some time, so I imagine that whatever relevance she had in the first place is fading. But hey, she went on the air and said that radiation is good for fighting cancer so at least she's not giving some quality ground breaking info that the world hasn't already known for like 50 years.
That's why people going through chemo look awesome and completely healthy.
That's a side effect from all the vomiting.
Ironically that is also a side effect from being in close proximity to Ann Coulter.
What is it about these types of tragedies that brings out the crazy in right wing nutjobs? First Beck goes off and suggests God caused the earthquake as payback, then Limbaugh mocks the Japanese people, and now Coulter spews her retardation. Can't these fargtards do something else but make themselves look like certifiable iceholes? And more to the point, why are people still watching, reading or listening to them?
You know why they do it. Because people watch. And you know people watch to see the next stupid thing someone's going to say.
Speaking of which, I am considering moving to Japan. Beachfront property is at an all time low.
Too soon?
No, just not funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fqyOpqnJyw&feature=player_embedded
Tsunami as it appeared from a ship at sea
So radiation contamination is now being detected in farm products (milk, spinach) in the areas surrounding the plant & beyond.
The good news is nuclear power is safer than driving in a car.
To hear it from pro-nuke people, it's either nuclear power or reverting to a third world standard of living, so get your lead on hippy.
To hear it from anti-nuke people it's another Chernobyl and people are dropping dead left and right.
How many people have died in Japan from radiation so far?
Quote from: Rome on March 19, 2011, 10:38:35 AM
So radiation contamination is now being detected in farm products (milk, spinach) in the areas surrounding the plant & beyond.
The good news is nuclear power is safer than driving in a car.
Ann Coulter said its good for you. Eat and drink it up, stupid!
can you imagine how strong radiation filled spinach would make you
like what if iron man and popeye had a baby
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 19, 2011, 12:23:30 PM
can you imagine how strong radiation filled spinach would make you
like what if iron man and popeye had a baby
lol
Quote from: SD on March 19, 2011, 11:30:54 AM
To hear it from anti-nuke people it's another Chernobyl and people are dropping dead left and right.
How many people have died in Japan from radiation so far?
So because no one has died (yet) it should just be scoffed at as though this was some sort of overturned semi on the highway?
And let me remind you that we're dealing with Japan here, not the farging farged up Soviet Union. Japan is at least on par with us in terms of technological prowess and they were more prepared for something like this than we'd ever hope to be. And this thing is spiraling even out of their control. I can't imagine how awful it would be if it ever happened here, and that's just the point... there's too much potential for catastrophe and it's all entirely needless.
Regardless of all that, exactly how awful does this have to become before those on the pro-nuke side admit the depth & breadth of this disaster?
No, what I'm saying is the anti-nuke people are going overboard. Every little thing and you guys jump on it. Oooohhhh look look they found radiation in the spinach! see...see...nuclear energy is bad! Some radiation spread is expected. The plant is over 30 years old and needed to be modernized. The radiation has been contained for the most part. It took a freakin 8.9 magnitude earthquake to make it 'unsafe'. So imagine a modernized nuclear plant and no huge quake rocking it to it's core. Wouldn't that be safe? Nuclear energy would be the cleanest and most environmentally friendly energy on the planet if they could just figure out what to do with the waste. I know that last sentence is borderline 'lol' worthy but like Russell mentioned before I don't know why they don't just launch it into the sun. Again I studied nuclear energy and it's efficiency (not to the extent of QB) and am educated on the subject enough to know that they don't expand on the technology because of public perception.
But plutonium is still a finite resource, right? It's not like we can just cook some up in the lab. What we really need is energy that is renewable.
Wind, solar and perhaps wave action is a start but probably will never be enough unless they can localize a wind farm a mile in the air.
Fuel cells have more potential, but noone is spending any money on it. I get the gubment's broke, but it still needs to get done. Stripping electrons of of methane is doable, that's been shown. Batteries to store the energy can be made. Methane is easy as shtein to get a hold of, and the environment makes it on it's own. Much rather spend the money here than trying to make safer nuke plants which still have a non-renewable energy source.
Use less, waste less, recycle and reuse, fund research into genuinely renewable sourseces, de-fund oil and coal subsidies and tax breaks.
At best Nuclear is a stopgap, at worst, it's a permanent global health threat.
Quote from: MMH on March 19, 2011, 01:06:20 PM
But plutonium is still a finite resource, right? It's not like we can just cook some up in the lab. What we really need is energy that is renewable.
Wind, solar and perhaps wave action is a start but probably will never be enough unless they can localize a wind farm a mile in the air.
Fuel cells have more potential, but noone is spending any money on it. I get the gubment's broke, but it still needs to get done. Stripping electrons of of methane is doable, that's been shown. Batteries to store the energy can be made. Methane is easy as shtein to get a hold of, and the environment makes it on it's own. Much rather spend the money here than trying to make safer nuke plants which still have a non-renewable energy source.
Oil is a finite resource too, why aren't you leading the brigade for mass transportation? I'm all for clean, renewable energy but Nuclear energy technology is already here and it's safe.
This is a chart posted on the other place....don't know how accurate it actually is but interesting to look at...
(http://www.motherearthnews.com/uploadedImages/articles/issues/2010-12-01/Gazette-bar-chart2.jpg)
I'm all for high speed rail, getting rid of all the long haul trucking and replacing it with freight trains, rebuilding the rail infrastructure to handle that, etc.
That wasn't exactly the conversation we've been having though...
^^^^^
I've heard people complain about the "government spending" with the high speed rail ideas in Cali and such and I was like really? Do you not realize how good for the long term they would be?
When it comes to conservation, we're up against people who think that being American entitles them to fueling their cars with leaded gas, lighting their houses 24/7 with Thomas Edison's original light bulbs, and cutting off mountaintops for coal to burn.
You cannot bring these people around. They are worse than dead weight; they have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/world/asia/24isolated.html?pagewanted=1&hp
Katrina happens and Americans loot, fight each other, they freak out.
In Japan, they behave themselves, organize efforts to survive, and remain calm.
You have to admire these people.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/24/world/asia/24burial.html?pagewanted=1&hp
Agenda!
You're the only one with an obvious agenda here, smart guy.
Would you tell me what that is, my agenda?
Agenda.
Getting your panties in a wad over the insinuation that the New York Times might be just a little bit biased in their reporting.
friend of mine is a linesman (running the big electric lines along the road) might be going over to japan to help them get things back up and running.
$10k per week, tax free. minimum of 12 weeks.
Volunteer opportunities have been offered to us as well. No additional pay other than normal travel pay and allowances, taxed, anywhere from 6mo to 1yr.
I'll pass.
Oh please, you're anti nuclear, anti oil, anti coal. Anti anything that you don't agree with. I've at least seen the light and admit when I've voted to have the icehole that is bush for another 4 years. Whenever you get challenged or someone disagrees with you, you claim that they are partisan, racist, earth hater or you run away and leave the board. So cry me a river of oil, that we shouldve been drilling here decades ago, but the big oil companies bought off the repubs and some dems so that'll never happen.
lol - who the farg are you talking to?
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 23, 2011, 07:46:11 PMOh please, you're anti nuclear, anti oil, anti coal. Anti anything that you don't agree with.
Guilty on all counts. Especially on the last charge.
Isn't everyone "anti-something they don't believe in"?
You're both insufferable, one slightly more than the other.
What the farg is going on with phillymic? Some sort screw snapped loose and he can't control his online rants. His diatribes are in like five different threads and they're all aimed at Dio. Can we lock the two of them in a room until on of them is pregnant and the other kills himself so we don't have to read this shtein anymore?
shtein done hit the fan
Quote from: SunMo on March 23, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
friend of mine is a linesman (running the big electric lines along the road) might be going over to japan to help them get things back up and running.
$10k per week, tax free. minimum of 12 weeks.
Holy shtein am I in the wrong line of business.
PhillyMic seems to think Dio is a uber liberal when really Dio's some sort of Ralph Nader weird mixture of liberalism and Libertarian or some crazy shtein.
But really, Dio's miserable attitude is refreshing. Sorry Rusty, you've been replaced.
My miserable attitude stopped being refreshing years ago. Basically the instant I met any of you awful nerds and felt compelled to be nice to you in person, my time was up. Worst goddamned mistake I've ever made.
In that case, you should meet me this year because we both know you won't feel compelled to be nice to me in person...thus you can rediscover your refreshingly miserable attitude.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 23, 2011, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: SunMo on March 23, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
friend of mine is a linesman (running the big electric lines along the road) might be going over to japan to help them get things back up and running.
$10k per week, tax free. minimum of 12 weeks.
Holy shtein am I in the wrong line of business.
Pun!!
:-D
I hate you all so much.
I'm not trying to meet any of you fargers even though I moved into the area. Munson, we're practically neighbors.
Quote from: Dillen on March 23, 2011, 10:44:55 PM
I'm not trying to meet any of you fargers even though I moved into the area. Munson, we're practically neighbors.
You found him on the sexual predator list when searching your neighborhood too?
My neighborhood looks like it has acne on that website
In all seriousness Dillen, welcome to Delaware. Awesome, isn't it? :poison
If you're looking for bars that aren't a bunch of people in their mid 20's getting shtein faced and trying to farg whatever they're dancing with, try Famous Joe's on Marsh Road. Chill place, no drink specials, but everything is $3. Also check out Dead Presidents on Union Street. Real chill place with good beer selection. They have two very funny racist guys do quizzo on Tuesdays.
Then there's white trash places like Duffers...yes, I am a frequent patron there.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 23, 2011, 09:40:03 PM
What the farg is going on with phillymic? Some sort screw snapped loose and he can't control his online rants. His diatribes are in like five different threads and they're all aimed at Dio. Can we lock the two of them in a room until on of them is pregnant and the other kills himself so we don't have to read this shtein anymore?
I'm sick of being labeled as a republican, bush,rush,beck,palin robot, rjs. I've admitted time and time again that i've made political mistakes over the past years. Yes i voted for Bush and in 04 i'm ashamed of that fact. I didnt vote for McCain or Obama. My polical stance now is that all these a-holes are bought and sold. The Repubs are bought by big business and Dems are bought by the unions and others. IMO there should be no special interest money going towards any political party. I basically wnt them all out, our system is broke and needs to be fixed from Dems, to Repubs they are all crooked as a 3 $ bill
i cant believe you took your mouth off karl roves cock long enough for you to post that
Quote from: MDS on March 23, 2011, 11:46:33 PM
i cant believe you took your mouth off karl roves cock long enough for you to post that
Wow MDS, im shocked you have a comment like that. I mean I would at least expect a fox news level response from a 2 bit hack reporter like yourself, but by all means Geraldo please do tell us how the 6th grade girls b team at the brownsville junior high school handled the triangle offense of the juarez 6th grade middle school team? I'm dying to read the professional write up!!
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 23, 2011, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on March 23, 2011, 09:40:03 PM
What the farg is going on with phillymic? Some sort screw snapped loose and he can't control his online rants. His diatribes are in like five different threads and they're all aimed at Dio. Can we lock the two of them in a room until on of them is pregnant and the other kills himself so we don't have to read this shtein anymore?
I'm sick of being labeled as a republican, bush,rush,beck,palin robot, rjs. I've admitted time and time again that i've made political mistakes over the past years. Yes i voted for Bush and in 04 i'm ashamed of that fact. I didnt vote for McCain or Obama. My polical stance now is that all these a-holes are bought and sold. The Repubs are bought by big business and Dems are bought by the unions and others. IMO there should be no special interest money going towards any political party. I basically wnt them all out, our system is broke and needs to be fixed from Dems, to Repubs they are all crooked as a 3 $ bill
Dont sweat it so much. This website is all about ball breaking. We never let anything go here.
I will forever be known as a McNabb lover. MDS will forever be known for the time he sucked off the homeless guy outside the Liacouras Center.
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 24, 2011, 12:09:26 AM
Quote from: MDS on March 23, 2011, 11:46:33 PM
i cant believe you took your mouth off karl roves cock long enough for you to post that
Wow MDS, im shocked you have a comment like that. I mean I would at least expect a fox news level response from a 2 bit hack reporter like yourself, but by all means Geraldo please do tell us how the 6th grade girls b team at the brownsville junior high school handled the triangle offense of the juarez 6th grade middle school team? I'm dying to read the professional write up!!
You get less interesting and more crazy every day. You should probably kill yourself.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 19, 2011, 02:00:27 PM
When it comes to conservation, we're up against people who think that being American entitles them to fueling their cars with leaded gas, lighting their houses 24/7 with Thomas Edison's original light bulbs, and cutting off mountaintops for coal to burn.
You cannot bring these people around. They are worse than dead weight; they have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 19, 2011, 02:00:27 PM
When it comes to conservation, we're up against people who think that being American entitles them to fueling their cars with leaded gas, lighting their houses 24/7 with Thomas Edison's original light bulbs, and cutting off mountaintops for coal to burn.
You cannot bring these people around. They are worse than dead weight; they have to be dragged kicking and screaming.
Why not abuse oil to fuel my sweet 1972 Buick Riviera until a renewable form of energy is invented? With the limited quantities of oil, which shouldn't last much past 2030, the concern is less about the impact on global warming than finding an alternate source of energy. Conserving oil is a futile attempt to stave off the inevitible.
This is actually a pretty good wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil)
QuoteIn 2005, the United States Department of Energy published a report titled Peaking of World Oil Production: Impacts, Mitigation, & Risk Management.[114] Known as the Hirsch report, it stated, "The peaking of world oil production presents the U.S. and the world with an unprecedented risk management problem. As peaking is approached, liquid fuel prices and price volatility will increase dramatically, and, without timely mitigation, the economic, social, and political costs will be unprecedented. Viable mitigation options exist on both the supply and demand sides, but to have substantial impact, they must be initiated more than a decade in advance of peaking."
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on March 24, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
Dont sweat it so much. This website is all about ball breaking. We never let anything go here.
I will forever be known as a McNabb lover. MDS will forever be known for the time he sucked off the homeless guy outside the Liacouras Center.
you really are a mcnabb lover. its actually sickening.
and if i recall correctly i just jerked that homeless dude off
So back to Japan,
Did I hear right that they're saying one of the surges that hit was 77 feet high? Now how in the hell do you prepare for shtein like that?
I've heard of heights as great as 50 feet, but not 70, and that these gargantuan dimensions were achieved only in steep walled valleys where the water had no where to go but up. Small villages in these situations were swallowed whole, water more than twice the height of the buildings.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 23, 2011, 09:44:08 PM
Quote from: SunMo on March 23, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
friend of mine is a linesman (running the big electric lines along the road) might be going over to japan to help them get things back up and running.
$10k per week, tax free. minimum of 12 weeks.
Holy shtein am I in the wrong line of business.
Rustypun!
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on March 24, 2011, 12:11:24 AM
Quote from: phillymic2000 on March 23, 2011, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on March 23, 2011, 09:40:03 PM
What the farg is going on with phillymic? Some sort screw snapped loose and he can't control his online rants. His diatribes are in like five different threads and they're all aimed at Dio. Can we lock the two of them in a room until on of them is pregnant and the other kills himself so we don't have to read this shtein anymore?
I'm sick of being labeled as a republican, bush,rush,beck,palin robot, rjs. I've admitted time and time again that i've made political mistakes over the past years. Yes i voted for Bush and in 04 i'm ashamed of that fact. I didnt vote for McCain or Obama. My polical stance now is that all these a-holes are bought and sold. The Repubs are bought by big business and Dems are bought by the unions and others. IMO there should be no special interest money going towards any political party. I basically wnt them all out, our system is broke and needs to be fixed from Dems, to Repubs they are all crooked as a 3 $ bill
Dont sweat it so much. This website is all about ball breaking. We never let anything go here.
I will forever be known as a McNabb lover. MDS will forever be known for the time he sucked off the homeless guy outside the Liacouras Center.
but you
are a mcnabb lover and phillymic
is a right wing zealot nut job...i cant think of two worse examples of ball busting than those
new tsunami video
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a7_1301163352
Hideaki Akaiwa (http://badassoftheweek.com/akaiwa.html)
^^
great link
That might be the greatest thing I've ever heard of.
Jesus Christ.
farg YES. I don't even know if I buy that story but whatever. It rules.
Edit: A quick google search seems to confirm that this dude is farging real. Hero.
That's farging awesome. Bad ass, indeed.
"These are not ideal SCUBA conditions."
lol
More reasons we can't trust the nuclear/energy industry. No reason to assume their assessments and the assumptions they base their models on are correct, and even if they find a potential Achilles heel no reason to assume they will correct the situation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/29/us-japa-nuclear-risks-idUSTRE72S2UA20110329
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9M8NGK80.htm
All is well. No need to pan.. uh... well, okay... maybe it's okay to panic just a little.
Edit....totally wrong thread.
Nothing about that article makes me want to panic.
That's because you were still drunk and high from last nite. Bet you're scared now, though.
Quote from: Rome on March 30, 2011, 12:42:59 PM
That's because you were still drunk and high from last nite. Bet you're scared now, though.
No, just painfully aroused.
I've been reading a lot about nuclear power since this happened, and I have to admit that I'm coming around to rjs' point of view* on nuclear energy.
Where I'm still not on board is the back end. No one has come up with a solid solution to the waste problem. And that's a big goddamn issue.
*A view which I take to be, if this is the worst that happens following a nearly unprecedented series of events, then nuclear power comes away looking pretty damn good...
Quote from: Diomedes on March 30, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
I've been reading a lot about nuclear power since this happened, and I have to admit that I'm coming around to rjs' point of view* on nuclear energy.
ahem
Ostriches.
Quote from: SD on March 30, 2011, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on March 30, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
I've been reading a lot about nuclear power since this happened, and I have to admit that I'm coming around to rjs' point of view* on nuclear energy.
ahem
The only view you have is that global warming is a liberal elitist conspiracy designed to deprive you of the right to poison the world around you with your SUVs, lawn fertilizers, and Thomas Edison lights. I won't be coming around bro.
Quote from: Rome on March 30, 2011, 06:37:20 PM
Ostriches.
How? What are the other options? Number of deaths in nuclear power plants each year: zero. Number in coal: tens of thousands. Nuclear greenhouse gases: zero. Etc.
If the worst that happens is a few plant workers get poisoned and die, and some people have to bivouac in shelters for a few weeks, holy christ that doesn't even compare to the damage we are suffering at the hands of coal and oil.
I see it principally as a stopgap between fossil and renewable, not as a long term answer...but I'm having a hard time seeing how you can argue against it.
Except, like I said, for the disposal problem.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 30, 2011, 06:40:43 PM
Quote from: SD on March 30, 2011, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on March 30, 2011, 06:25:05 PM
I've been reading a lot about nuclear power since this happened, and I have to admit that I'm coming around to rjs' point of view* on nuclear energy.
ahem
The only view you have is that global warming is a liberal elitist conspiracy designed to deprive you of the right to poison the world around you with your SUVs, lawn fertilizers, and Thomas Edison lights. I won't be coming around bro.
This isn't about Global Warming and I'm happy to see you've come around on Nuclear Energy since our conversation a few weeks ago:
Quote from: SD on March 12, 2011, 09:55:15 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on March 12, 2011, 07:44:33 PM
Anyone want a nuclear power plant in their back yard now?
I wouldn't mind. Nuclear energy is safe. A massive quake goes off and a tiny bit of radioactive material reached the air, the rest was contained. I don't see the big deal. Good luck getting people to use less electricity. And just an FYI plants supply enough energy to meet the publics needs, if the public cuts back the energy produced goes unused. I think you'd have a stronger case if there was an energy shortage.
I haven't said I want one in my back yard.
I'm not convinced it's safe. I have serious reservations about disposal of spent fuel, which at this point is being stored at nuclear plants far beyond their designed capacity because no one has figured out what the farg to do with it.
And yes, this is about global warming. If burning coal and oil didn't farg our planet so badly, nuclear could take a hike.
I am however not as worried about catastrophic meltdowns and explosions like Chernoybl. Your comments had absolutely nothing to do with this change in my thoughts, so thank you.
It hasn't happened yet so it probably won't ever happen and even if it does happen it probably won't be all that bad.
Is that about it, fellas?
It makes me so proud that someone from this board actually went out and read something and formed a coherent nuanced opinion about something that differed from their original thoughts on the subject. I mean, it took 7 years of posting on this board but it finally happened so that's something, right? Right?
It has happened and it really wasn't all that bad, and it's basically impossible that it will happen again, so yes, that's about it.
You prefer to chug along with deadly gas, oil and coal mining until we can make some kind of begrudging switch to renewables?
Quote from: Rome on March 30, 2011, 07:06:56 PM
It hasn't happened yet so it probably won't ever happen and even if it does happen it probably won't be all that bad.
Is that about it, fellas?
Like Dio said, it just did happen and it wasn't/isn't that bad. I'm having trouble discerning what the point is that you're trying to make.
By "it," I meant Chernobyl.
Fine. I'm talking about Japan. Two of the biggest disasters in recorded history just hit with nuclear power plants at ground zero. To me, the fact that this is such a non issue is amazing.
Chernobyls basically can't happen anymore.
Exactly.
How many dead from the two events--Chernobly and fargushima--so far?
A fraction of the deaths from coal alone in a month, nevermind oil and gas.
It's only a nonissue if you're safe & warm 10,000 miles away. If you lived anywhere near fargushima I doubt you'd be so blasé about this.
I'll build one of those fargers in my basement and lick it's sweet outer shell.
I'll dry hump it to sleep every night and make fission babies with my suddenly even more mind-explodingly massive ballsack.
I saw it first hand in Nashville. That would be an even HUGER sack.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 30, 2011, 08:07:33 PM
I'll build one of those fargers in my basement and lick it's sweet outer shell.
I'll dry hump it to sleep every night and make fission babies with my suddenly even more mind-explodingly massive ballsack.
That's farging awesome....PTY
Guess this is somewhat related to the conversation.
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wkno/news.newsmain/article/0/0/1782508/US.News/Whistleblower.suit.filed.against.California.nuclear.plant
QuoteSAN DIEGO (Reuters) - A former manager at one of California's two nuclear power stations sued the facility's operators on Wednesday, claiming he was fired in retaliation for reporting safety concerns at the plant.
The suit against Southern California Edison, principal owner of the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station, comes a year after the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission rebuked the company for what the government called a "chilling effect" on the airing of safety concerns by employees.
a complete tangent, but compelling:
average joe recreates nukes in his garage...
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/motherboard/the-atomic-trucker
new (to me) tsunami videos:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db0_1301461607
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=260_1301459393
Quote from: Diomedes on March 31, 2011, 04:16:49 PM
a complete tangent, but compelling:
average joe recreates nukes in his garage...
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/motherboard/the-atomic-trucker
That was pretty cool.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 31, 2011, 04:53:31 PM
new (to me) tsunami videos:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db0_1301461607
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=260_1301459393
you have to stick to the whole thing from begin to end to appreciate it but if you do the ending of the first one is just unreal
it might be my favorite video so far
what are your favorite 9/11 videos?
not really a video but the call home where the building actually falls while the guy is talking is nuts
also the video where you can hear the all the jumpers hitting
I don't care for 9/11 videos...people hurting people does nothing for me.
The power of the tsunami transfixes me.
yea its awesome to see peoples houses and lives float away
but people didnt cause the earthquake
200,000 killed by water = transfixing
3000 killed by man = eh
Quote from: MDS on March 31, 2011, 08:23:17 PM
what are your favorite 9/11 videos?
this one
(http://eatthiscity.com/wp-content/upload/1252702290-1929-will-smith-dancing-the-twin-towers-down.gif)
Quote from: MDS on March 31, 2011, 08:52:07 PM
yea its awesome to see peoples houses and lives float away
One is the awesome power of nature. The other is premeditated, human initiated destruction with the intent to kill as many people as possible. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but that's the way I see it. I'll probably never watch 9/11 footage ever again.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on March 31, 2011, 09:11:29 PM
I'll probably never watch 9/11 footage ever again.
don't look up
Can it be possible that almost 10 farging years have passed since 9/11?
Blink of an eye, really.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/scary.png)
from CNN
Quote7.4-magnitude earthquake strikes off coast of Miyagi, Japan, Japan's meteorological agency says.
:o
blame climate change
the earth's crust is shifting. just ask john cusak.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/09/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1
The wave that hit the power plant was estimated to be 48ft high - here's a video clip of it
you serious with that video?
worst video yet...farg you CNN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZR0Rq1Rfw&feature=player_embedded#at=28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ann27T6JTek&feature=related
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1db_1308510054
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/07/09/japan.earthquake/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Another one.
7.1 off the coast
Quote(Reuters) - Japan's fargushima Daiichi nuclear plant ranked as one of the most dangerous in the world for radiation exposure years before it was destroyed by the meltdowns and explosions that followed the March 11 earthquake.
For five years to 2008, the fargushima plant was rated the most hazardous nuclear facility in Japan for worker exposure to radiation and one of the five worst nuclear plants in the world on that basis. The next rankings, compiled as a three-year average, are due this year.
Reuters uncovered these rankings, privately tracked by fargushima's operator Tokyo Electric Power, in a review of documents and presentations made at nuclear safety conferences over the past seven years.
In the United States -- Japan's early model in nuclear power -- fargushima's lagging safety record would have prompted more intensive inspections by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. It would have also invited scrutiny from the U.S. Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, an independent nuclear safety organization established by the U.S. power industry after the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, experts say.
But that kind of stepped-up review never happened in Tokyo, where the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency remains an adjunct of the trade ministry charged with promoting nuclear power.
As Japan debates its future energy policy after the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl, a Reuters review of the long-troubled record at fargushima shows how hard it has been to keep the country's oldest reactors running in the best of times. It also shows how Japan's nuclear establishment sold nuclear power to the public as a relatively cheap energy source in part by putting cost-containment ahead of radiation safety over the past several decades.
"After the fargushima accident, we need to reconsider the cost of nuclear power," Tatsujiro Suzuki, vice chairman of Japan's Atomic Energy Commission, told Reuters. "It's not enough to meet safety standards. The industry needs to search for the best performance."
In an illustration of the scale of the safety problems at fargushima, Tokyo Electric had set a 10-year goal that insiders considered ambitious in 2007. The plan was to reduce radiation exposure for workers at fargushima to bring the facility from near rock-bottom in the industry's global safety rankings to somewhere below-average by 2017, documents show.
"Severer management than before will be required," Tokyo Electric safety researcher Yasunori Kokubun and four other colleagues said in an English-language 2004 report. That report examined why Japan lagged other countries such as France and the United States in limiting radiation exposure for workers during plant maintenance.
The report came from an earlier period of corporate soul searching by Tokyo Electric, a politically powerful regional monopoly in Japan that ran the fargushima power station and remains in charge of the clean-up work at the crippled plant expected to take a decade or more.
In 2002, the chairman and president of the utility were forced to step down after regulators concluded the company had routinely filed false reports during safety inspections and hid evidence of trouble at its reactors, including fargushima. All 17 of Tokyo Electric's reactors were ordered shut down. The last of those did not restart until 2005.
COST-SAVING CULTURE
As part of a bid to win back public trust, the utility promised to repair a "safety culture" it said had failed in the scandal. Teams of newly empowered radiation safety managers were created and began to audit the company's nuclear operations, including fargushima. They also reported back findings to other nuclear plant operators and regulators. None of the utility's safety managers who gave those archived presentations responded to requests for comment for this report.
One problem, according to one of those early assessments, was that Tokyo Electric's managers on the ground tended to put cost savings ahead of a commitment to keep driving worker radiation doses "as low as reasonably achievable," the international standard for safety.
Take maintenance, for instance. Japanese plants are required to shut down every 13 months for almost four months at a time -- twice as long as the U.S. average. Tepco was slow to invest in the more expensive radiation safety precautions needed during maintenance, thus lowering the cost of operating fargushima before the accident.
But that focus on costs also kept Tepco from developing a more active commitment to worker safety that could have helped it navigate the March disaster, officials now say.
After the earthquake, contract workers at fargushima were sent in without radiation meters or basic gear such as rubber boots. Screening for radiation from dust and vapor inhaled by workers was delayed for weeks until experts said the testing was almost meaningless. At least 39 workers were exposed to more than 100 millisieverts of radiation, five times the maximum allowed in a normal year.
fargushima Daiichi, built in a poor region on Japan's Pacific Coast to supply power to Tokyo, was pushed into crisis by the massive March 11 earthquake and the tsunami that hit less than an hour later. The backup power systems meant to keep its radioactive fuel cool were disabled, leading to meltdowns, explosions and radiation spewing into the environment, forcing the evacuation of more than 80,000 residents.
Goshi Hosono, the government minister appointed to coordinate Japan's response to the fargushima crisis, said he was not aware of the details of fargushima's radiation safety record before March 11 and declined to comment on that basis.
But he said the utility had failed to protect workers in the chaos that followed the accident, prompting a reprimand from government officials and a decision by regulators to take charge of radiation health monitoring at the plant.
"In normal times, radiation monitoring would be left to the plant operator, but these are not normal times," Hosono told Reuters.
HIGHER RADIATION IN OLD PLANTS
In a June report to the International Atomic Energy Agency, Japanese officials said basic design failures, a fatal underestimation of tsunami risk and a chaotic decision-making process had contributed to the disaster. But they also said Tokyo Electric's "safety culture" had failed it again.
Outside experts agreed. "The main root causes of this man-made disaster can be found in (Tokyo Electric's) ineffective -- exemplary poor -- safety practices and track record," said Najim Meshkati, an engineering professor at the University of Southern California and former U.S. government science advisor.
In response to questions about the radiation safety record at fargushima, Tokyo Electric said that radiation exposure for each individual worker at the plant had been kept below the regulatory standard. The overall radiation level remained relatively high because the plant's six reactors were all between 30 and 40 years old at the time of the accident, the utility said.
"We are ready and willing to spend money to reduce worker doses," said John Bickel, a nuclear safety expert who has consulted for the NRC and the IAEA. "I would characterize that there is an intense competition in the U.S. to be the lowest."
By contrast, critics of the Japanese nuclear industry cite records showing how Tokyo Electric and other utilities shifted the health risks of operating nuclear plants to a group of relatively poor and sometimes homeless day laborers desperate for a quick payday.
"Nuclear power is based on discrimination, a system in which the people who are working to protect nuclear safety end up on the streets and are given the cold shoulder by society. All of us who use electricity are responsible for this system," said Yuko Fujita, a former physics professor at Keio University who has campaigned for nuclear worker safety in Japan for over 20 years.
To be sure, Tokyo Electric had taken steps to reduce the amount of radiation workers faced. It changed the chemistry of water piped through the reactors to reduce corrosion in pipes. It developed robots and remote-controlled probes to inspect hazards rather than sending in workers. And it used radiation shields such as lead "blankets" wrapped around pipes during maintenance to limit radiation in places workers had to be.
Those measures had reduced the overall radiation exposure for workers at fargushima to a third of the 1978 peak by the start of the past decade, the records show.
But by 2006, Tokyo Electric safety managers had decided that they had to take on a tougher problem to make any more progress. They needed to reform the basic organization of the utility, where maintenance managers faced no pressure to meet targets for reducing radiation exposure for the thousands of contractors and day laborers, two reports show.
The only more dangerous plants from 2003 to 2005 on that basis had been the Tarapur nuclear plant in India, where two reactors shared the basic fargushima design, and the Perry nuclear plant on Lake Erie outside Cleveland, Ohio.
Perry, which is operated by FirstEnergy Corp, was cited by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a series of safety mistakes during a maintenance period in April. In that incident, regulators said four workers were exposed to high levels of radiation after being sent to retrieve a radiation monitor near the reactor's core. The plant has been the target of NRC safety inspections for more than three years because of what U.S. regulators call "human performance" issues in safety management.