QuotePosted on Sat, May. 2, 2009
Bob Ford: McNabb should project more leadership
By Bob Ford
Inquirer Sports Columnist
The real start of the 2009 NFL season arrived at 10:30 yesterday morning when an air horn sounded on the practice fields at the NovaCare Complex and the first workout of the new year began.
It's a difficult trek from May to September, and many of the unfamiliar faces out there yesterday, and probably some of the familiar ones, won't make the entire journey.
They were on the field yesterday, though, going through a glorified set of noncontact passing drills and special teams work. The quarterbacks threw the ball, and the backs and receivers caught it, which is what always happens when neither end of the completion has to worry about getting hit.
"The important thing is we've got a lot of new people and it's important that we come together and that we jell," coach Andy Reid said. "It won't be very long before we're opening up against Carolina, and we've got a lot of work ahead of us."
The changes are apparent in the locker room as much as on the field. The corner where Brian Dawkins once commanded two stalls - one for Brian and one for the two dozen Wolverine figurines representing his X-Men comic-book persona - is now occupied by Ellis Hobbs and Rashad Baker.
Those spots previously assigned to Correll Buckhalter, Sean Considine, Greg Lewis, Lito Sheppard, L.J. Smith and Tra Thomas have been given to others in the endless churn of personnel. Somewhat quirkily, Jon Runyan's nameplate is still above the locker of the unsigned free agent, but that is more likely due to the sentiment of the equipment staff than any organizational hint that the player will return.
This is a business best undertaken with a short memory and a long contract. Friends move on, teammates fall by the wayside, off-seasons drift from May to September before you realize it.
For the 11th consecutive year, the 10th since being installed as unquestioned starter, quarterback Donovan McNabb will be the peg around which the team revolves. Whatever improvements have been made to the offense, whatever additions to the defense, the ultimate success of the Eagles rests with the play of McNabb.
Aside from the very occasional blog post, McNabb has not shared his current feelings with the fans, hasn't brought clarity to the lingering questions about his relationship with the organization.
He declined the opportunity yesterday, when he could have gotten it all over with and moved on. Instead, the keynote for the start of the season from the team's most important player, the face of the franchise, was inaudible. Perhaps dogs in South Philly could hear it and were barking in their yards, but there was nothing to put between quote marks for your consideration.
Does it matter? Maybe not. But at a time when the team could use some stability, McNabb is lending none.
It could be that McNabb doesn't want to answer questions about the contract extension he wants but knows he won't get. It could be that when the team drafts a 20-year-old rookie receiver instead of trading for an established veteran, the 32-year-old McNabb wonders which quarterback will benefit from that addition. It could be he's still stung by what he considered callous treatment last season - the lowly position coach told him he was benched! - and thinks no comment is the best way to show he's his own man and not some mouthpiece of the organization.
Or maybe he has a sore throat.
Hard to tell.
"Right now, he's here, and he's in a very good place," Reid said. "He's as upbeat and positive and into that practice as you'd expect him to be. I'd said the same thing about Sheldon [Brown]. He's fired up out there."
Whether those two, and others, are actually unhappy mini-campers doesn't matter much to Reid. That's the business end, and he likes to concentrate on the field side of things.
"Those things happen in professional sports," Reid said. "It's part of the game. It's something coaches and front-office people don't like, but it's something players feel they have to do. So that's how that works."
He was speaking more of the situation with Brown - who stood up and put his name behind his feelings - but it also applies to McNabb, whose alleged unhappiness has been conveyed only by his water-carriers in the media.
In the end, however, nothing matters more than how well McNabb plays the quarterback position. If he wants a contract extension, he will have every opportunity - with a revamped offensive line and some shiny, new weapons - to earn it.
As for leadership, professional athletes will follow the teammates who can get them somewhere. It would be nice if they can also build their confidence and lead them emotionally, but not entirely necessary.
Great play and poor leadership can still get you a championship. The reverse just gets a new nameplate over your locker.
Hahaha. Yeah, right. He should completely change his personality and become a fiery, outspoken leader of men.
That's totally gonna happen, Bob.
So.... they asked questions and McNabb didn't answer.
Hang him.
I don't have a problem with 5 not saying anything, it's more the media who don't get quotes to make a story and stir the pot who don't like it.
I have to give credit to whoever is responsible for McNabb and Brown changing their tune, whether it is the player, coach, agent, etc. Otherwise winning a SB becomes much more difficult than it already is.
SalPal did this exact same thing on SC yesterday... where he flat out said, "McNabb didn't say. but we can speculate..." and wrapped up his piece saying something like, "McNabb usually causes controversy by the things he says, now he's causing a controversy by saying nothing."
He's full of shtein right along with Ford...
Agreed. Sal Pal is a tool and his shtick became lame long ago. Because he won't do the work or lacks the talent to make anything of substance, he just defaults into trying to trump up controversy when there is none.
At least in the past there have been times when the team used that stuff as a rallying point to say farg them and pull together.
Drumming up controversy is the mass media's last desperate grasp at relevancy.
Quote from: Rome on May 02, 2009, 08:38:34 AM
Drumming up controversy is the mass media's last desperate grasp at relevancy.
It's what the mass media has done for centuries. And sports media is more successful today than ever. The reason they run this crap is that some Philly fans are actually retarded enough to get emotionally involved with this phony soap opera bullshtein. Maybe because you don't need to know jack shtein about football to talk about whether or not McNabb is bitchmade (which he is, and might have been new information back in 2002).
If you look at the teams that have won the SB recently, there are a lot of teams there that basically just shut the farg up in the media and play some football. And that goes for the players, coaches, and the FO. It's no coincidence the Giants won with Shockey on IR and Tiki running his mouth from an NBC studio. The Patriots, Colts, and Steelers are always professional and manage to keep their complaints in-house. And they clamp down on that shtein fast when things leak out. The Eagles seem happy enough to let the city be a full participant in their psycho-drama.
sal pal is a new yorker and despises anything philly
jesus mcnabb keeping his mouth shut should be the best news since hes been in philly and people are still complaining
Are you shocked, igy?
This will be the kindling and people like Cataldi and Hughes will be the air and before you know it the geniuses who call in like "Arson Arnie" and Mr. Dirty Thirty will be bitching for the helluva it.
And where's the outrage about Westbrook being quiet? He's always salty about something...go pick his brain and pick on him, reporters.
Or better yet...shut the farg up with creating controversy.
What exactly does Bob Ford need his words for? What does Bob Ford think we need McNabb to soothe us about?
Shut your filthy whore mouth.
Donovan's words are like a puppydog's kisses to me.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 02, 2009, 10:50:56 AM
And where's the outrage about Westbrook being quiet? He's always salty about something...go pick his brain and pick on him, reporters.
You just HAD to say something, didn't you?? (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20090502_Eagles_Notes___Westbrook_adds_to_Eagles__silence.html) ;)
QuoteEagles Notes: Westbrook adds to Eagles' silence
Quarterback Donovan McNabb wasn't the only player who shunned a trip to the podium yesterday.
Running back Brian Westbrook also declined to share his thoughts after the Eagles' morning workout at the NovaCare Complex.
The big question for Westbrook, of course, is how he feels after playing most of last season with a severe right-ankle sprain and an inflamed left knee that required arthroscopic surgery in January.
"He moved around well," coach Andy Reid said. "I checked with him midway through the practice and then three-quarters of the way through practice just to see how he was feeling, and he felt good."
Reid said he probably would limit Westbrook's reps during these minicamps.
"I'm just going off how he feels," Reid said. "His reps won't be up too high because of the bodies [at running back] we have here."
As for McNabb's reluctance to field questions after the first workout of the 2009 season, Reid did not appear concerned.
"That was his choice," he said.
Could it mean the quarterback wants a contract extension, a position he strongly hinted at during an interview in late January at the Super Bowl?
"We never talk about that . . . not from this end," Reid said.
McNabb was jovial on the field, especially during the team's afternoon workout, which was moved indoors because of heavy rain.
"He's done a great job - at least he did today and he has over the last 10 years - of leading this football team," Reid said. "That, to me, is very important . . . and obviously somewhere he'll talk to you along the way here."
Injuries
The most notable absences yesterday were on the first-team offense, with wide receiver Kevin Curtis and guard Todd Herremans sidelined by injuries. Curtis underwent surgery April 15 to further repair the sports hernia that forced him to miss seven games last season. Herremans sat out after undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his left knee last month. Reid said both are expected back for voluntary workouts next month.
Guard Max Jean-Gilles still is recovering from a broken ankle that ended his 2008 season. Defensive tackle Dan Klecko sat out with a strained calf muscle, and cornerback Jack Ikegwuono suffered a hamstring injury that forced him out of the morning workout.
Hello, goodbye
Ryan Purvis, a tight end from Boston College, was among the players invited for a tryout without a contract, but his first Eagles workout ended almost before it started.
Less than 10 minutes into the morning workout, Purvis left the field because the Tampa Bay Buccaneers had signed him to a contract. A few minutes later, veteran tight end Matt Schobel left the field with a strained hamstring.
That left the Eagles with three healthy tight ends in camp: starter Brent Celek, and rookies Cornelius Ingram and Eugene Bright.
Ingram, a fifth-round draft pick who missed his senior season at Florida because of a torn anterior cruciate ligament, looked healthy and appears to have outstanding hands.
Numbers game
It's always fun - and sometimes confusing - to see unfamiliar faces with the numbers of guys who used to play here.
The Eagles were respectful of longtime veterans Brian Dawkins, Jon Runyan and Tra Thomas and did not distribute the Nos. 20, 69 and 72.
Runyan still has a locker with his nameplate inside the NovaCare Complex. He is a free agent rehabilitating from surgery on his right knee, but it seems unlikely he will sign with the Eagles.
Some others did not get the same respect. Safety Sean Jones is wearing Lito Sheppard's No. 26, undrafted rookie tight end Eugene Bright was running around in L.J. Smith's No. 82, and newly acquired cornerback Ellis Hobbs was wearing Sean Considine's No. 37.
Other numbers: Jason Peters is 71, Stacy Andrews is 76, Jeremy Maclin is 18, Leonard Weaver is 43, and LeSean McCoy is 29.
Extra points
Reid on Sheldon Brown's public request for a trade because of his contract situation: "I would rather not have people do that. Unfortunately, that's part of this business." Reid and Brown spoke yesterday. "It was a player-coach conversation," Brown said. "Nothing serious." . . . Defensive coordinator Jim Johnson, who was diagnosed with melanoma near the end of last season, was on the practice field yesterday, but he did not take his usual position standing behind the defense. Instead, he was on the other side of the line of scrimmage in a motorized red wheelchair. Johnson will talk to the media for the first time today since his battle with cancer was made public in late January. . . . In between workouts, the Eagles were briefed by trainer Rick Burkholder on how to avoid getting swine flu. Bottles of hand sanitizers were distributed. -
I never understood why people get so caught up in what McNabb has to say. He's not that interesting off the field so who cares.
cause when he talks he comes off as a spoiled unfunny douchebag and usually says something that pisses people off
thats why i dont understand how anyone could be upset he isnt talking...well i can understand the media because hes a great story when he talks...but fans be happy as shtein....street kids rejoice
He's absolutely unfunny but what does he say to piss people off? He rarely if ever provides the media with ammunition. Most of the controversial stuff about him is drummed up nonsense. Exhibit A: Bob Ford: McNabb should project more leadership
Haven't we heard this song and dance before by the Philly media? We get it, he should be a more assertive and in your face leader, because I'm sure past SB winning QBs like Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady were all like that.
guess you havent heard him talk or read his blog over the last ten years...if you even have to ask how he pisses people off i dont even know what to say
maybe people who are sensitive. Give me an example of something he said that pissed you off. Anything.
the interview comedy circuit he and TO did when the eagles first traded for him were unbearable and still to this day infuriate me
all the times hes ripped the eagle fans for being to hard on him
giggling and laughing after huge interceptions
i dont ever wanna hear or see that guy again unless hes doing something btwn whistles of an nfl game
ect...
i like how that title leads you to believe the article is about westbrook when it's got more to do with mcnabb. hell, that article is more about ryan purvice than it is westbrook.
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 02, 2009, 01:35:07 PM
the interview comedy circuit he and TO did when the eagles first traded for him were unbearable and still to this day infuriate me
all the times hes ripped the eagle fans for being to hard on him
giggling and laughing after huge interceptions
i dont ever wanna hear or see that guy again unless hes doing something btwn whistles of an nfl game
ect...
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 02, 2009, 01:30:14 PM
maybe people who are sensitive.
Know what pisses me off about the guy? When he throws a wormburner and the receiver's 5 ft. away. When he has brainfarts at critical points in a game. etc. The other off the field stuff I don't give two shteins about, like I said, he's not that interesting off the field.
he sickening but i am definitely sensitive about my athletes...i want to like them as well as root for them...im not one of those people that can only look at the game itself and put everything else off the the side
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 02, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
he sickening but i am definitely sensitive about my athletes...i want to like them as well as root for them...im not one of those people that can only look at the game itself and put everything else off the the side
You big puss.
I don't have to like them to root for them if they're going to the Superbowl. TO was/is one of the biggest dickheads in sports from what we see of him, but I was rooting my ass off for him when he was an Eagle. McNabb makes me want to bust my TV with a Louisville Slugger at times, especially watching him get interviewed acting the ass, or grinning like the villiage idiot after throwing a pic, but I'll be rootting my ass off for him this year. Athletes say and do stupid shtein and you either laugh at them or cuss at them. No one here really knows any of them.
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 02, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
he sickening but i am definitely sensitive about my athletes...i want to like them as well as root for them...im not one of those people that can only look at the game itself and put everything else off the the side
so not only does a player have to produce on the field, but they also need to be someone you'd like to hang out with off the field too?
the only thing i really care about with players regarding their off field life is that they aren't idiots who are beating their wives, driving drunk, doing drugs, etc etc. i really don't care what their "cool factor" is.
as long as they aren't an embarassment, then i'm satisfied.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 02, 2009, 02:53:18 PMbeating their wives, driving drunk, doing drugs, etc etc.
I would actually prefer my favorite athletes to engage in such behavior.
This is the same guy who judges athletes based on the way they look....so of course McNabb doing anything he doesn't like off the field makes his vagina hurt.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 02, 2009, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 02, 2009, 01:51:33 PM
he sickening but i am definitely sensitive about my athletes...i want to like them as well as root for them...im not one of those people that can only look at the game itself and put everything else off the the side
so not only does a player have to produce on the field, but they also need to be someone you'd like to hang out with off the field too?
the only thing i really care about with players regarding their off field life is that they aren't idiots who are beating their wives, driving drunk, doing drugs, etc etc. i really don't care what their "cool factor" is.
as long as they aren't an embarassment, then i'm satisfied.
not me...i want to like who i root for...and i could care less about criminal activities...i just want them to pass the look test with flying colors and have some illness in them
you want celebrity. i want football players.
i want both...sort of...cause i dont want celebrity...some of my all time athletes arent well known at all...theres certain guys i just like more than others and it often has nothing to do with on the field performance...like the godfather is my favorite sixer right now
In his twilight, there isn't much more to say. "It's all been done", to quote the song. Out of all the drama and dashed chances, what else can 5, (or Wilma for that matter) add?
Whether or not there is a second act for him, only the schedule can talk with any certainty. Amidst the poorly executed "class clown" defense mechanisim, there is only the guy at the end of the bench with the towel over his head uttering the occasional platitudes required by the NFL.
So be it. Let the end-game begin.
and this is another episode of Deep Thoughts.... by Jack Straw
I want motherfargers who have trouble peeling tickertape off their faces after the Super Bowl win.
good god a post pub romey
god help us all
I was telling SD earlier that I was at a dog track for the Kentucky Derby tonight. Someone won the Superfecta at the race there.
$557,000 payoff on an $8 bet.
Swear to God.
PS: Well below the .08 limit tonight. Can't do it three straight nights anymore.
why would you "swear to god" about something you didnt win/do
Quote from: JackStraw on May 02, 2009, 04:39:19 PM
In his twilight, there isn't much more to say. "It's all been done", to quote the song. Out of all the drama and dashed chances, what else can 5, (or Wilma for that matter) add?
Whether or not there is a second act for him, only the schedule can talk with any certainty. Amidst the poorly executed "class clown" defense mechanisim, there is only the guy at the end of the bench with the towel over his head uttering the occasional platitudes required by the NFL.
So be it. Let the end-game begin.
The end game? Isn't that about the time Donovan's projectile vomit makes an appearance?
I'll never get the dislike people have for McNabb.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 02, 2009, 01:30:14 PM
maybe people who are sensitive. Give me an example of something he said that pissed you off. Anything.
black on black crime
Quote from: Diomedes on May 03, 2009, 06:59:13 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 02, 2009, 01:30:14 PM
maybe people who are sensitive. Give me an example of something he said that pissed you off. Anything.
black on black crime
Why would that piss you off? It was a dumb ass thing to say... and it blew up in his face as it should have... but why on earth would that piss someone off? Who gives a shtein?
You hear him say, "black on black crime"... call him a dumb shtein... move on.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 02, 2009, 11:58:01 PM
I'll never get the dislike people have for McNabb.
Name one other qb that you've ever seen act like he's just won the oscar after throwing a crucial int. I remember guys like Unitas, Marino, Elway, getting in peoples faces and leading a team. Smile?? I don't think so.
Quote from: shorebird on May 03, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 02, 2009, 11:58:01 PM
I'll never get the dislike people have for McNabb.
Name one other qb that you've ever seen act like he's just won the oscar after throwing a crucial int. I remember guys like Unitas, Marino, Elway, getting in peoples faces and leading a team. Smile?? I don't think so.
Hyperbole Alert!!! Hyperbole Alert!!!
If I could give myself AIDS for starting this ridiculous thread, I would.
it might be hyperbole and you and j might love mcnabb but to watch the guy and not understand why he infuriates people is kind of curious
I completely understand why people get upset at McNabb. He's black, he's successful, and he doesn't take himself seriously enough for people who are bitterly jealous of everything he has.
Most of me doesn't 'hate' him because he's a good qb and the best shot that the Eagles have of making a run in the short term. The rest of me completely hates him because he's unfunny and a choke artist and ugly and you just know that 35 minutes after he retires he will be 50 pounds overweight. Fat people are the worst.
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 03, 2009, 09:45:24 AM
it might be hyperbole and you and j might love mcnabb but to watch the guy and not understand why he infuriates people is kind of curious
I completely understand people who say he's
1. Unfunny
2. Says stupid shtein at times
3. Too much like a FO guy
etc... Hell, I agree with it a lot of the time. I just don't understand why people would get so pissed about it... and I laugh as I type this because there are people who would fall out of there chairs if they knew I, of all people, was telling someone else not to get pissed off when it comes to the Eagles. Not too many things can bring rage out of me like the Eagles can.
I get pissed about people who kill kids, kill others driving drunk, and that kind of shtein. I get infuriated about the on the field shtein. Who cares if a guy is trying to be funny and isn't?
Quote from: EagleFeva on May 03, 2009, 09:18:21 AM
Quote from: Diomedes on May 03, 2009, 06:59:13 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 02, 2009, 01:30:14 PM
maybe people who are sensitive. Give me an example of something he said that pissed you off. Anything.
black on black crime
Why would that piss you off? It was a dumb ass thing to say... and it blew up in his face as it should have... but why on earth would that piss someone off? Who gives a shtein?
You hear him say, "black on black crime"... call him a dumb shtein... move on.
I'm going to go ahead and agree with Feva on this one for no particular reason.
its def not for me but theres nothing wrong with loving mcnabb...but lets be honest here donnie is in bed with banner inc. so theres no chance you wouldnt ever take his side
Quote from: rjs246 on May 03, 2009, 10:10:27 AM
Most of me doesn't 'hate' him because he's a good qb and the best shot that the Eagles have of making a run in the short term. The rest of me completely hates him because he's unfunny and a choke artist and ugly and you just know that 35 minutes after he retires he will be 50 pounds overweight. Fat people are the worst.
pretty much sums it up right here
Quote from: shorebird on May 03, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 02, 2009, 11:58:01 PM
I'll never get the dislike people have for McNabb.
Name one other qb that you've ever seen act like he's just won the oscar after throwing a crucial int. I remember guys like Unitas, Marino, Elway, getting in peoples faces and leading a team. Smile?? I don't think so.
Oooh! McNabb not angry enough for you! You no like!
Please. Shore, people handle shtein differently. When I farg something up I've been known to laugh. The laugh is not "hahahahaha, I don't care!!" its "goddamn I'm a dumbass".
What is this fascination with wanting to see him punch shtein and scream?
Quote from: EagleFeva on May 03, 2009, 09:18:21 AM
Quote from: Diomedes on May 03, 2009, 06:59:13 AM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 02, 2009, 01:30:14 PM
maybe people who are sensitive. Give me an example of something he said that pissed you off. Anything.
black on black crime
Why would that piss you off? It was a dumb ass thing to say... and it blew up in his face as it should have... but why on earth would that piss someone off? Who gives a shtein?
You hear him say, "black on black crime"... call him a dumb shtein... move on.
Exactly.
And when he said it, the circus that surrounded it in Philly was amazing. The NAACP leader in PHL came out and spoke against it. The community activists.
It was a dumb comment and poor choice of words. But to get pissed or infuriated? When people have a mic in front of their face constantly for a decade, they're bound to say stupid things.
He's unfunny no doubt about it.
But the guy is the best QB to wear an Eagles uniform.
Jim McMahon, in his broken-down two minutes here clicked with the town more than all the years and all the results the current "Mc" has delivered. It's because its never purely all about w&l's - especially for Eagles QB's. It's why Randall was loved in the beginning and loathed by the end. It's why Vermiel is loved by many long after his descent into irrelevancy.
Eagles fans can take crushing losses - lord knows that's true. But never any quarter to those who don't embrace the unique nature that is this city's approach to sports. An anachronism of a bygone time? - perhaps, but ignore it at peril. And no it isn't about cheesesteak juice dribbling down the sleeve or how many times you show at Neshaminy Mall to sign whatever relic is thrust in your face.
And if that doesn't phase one from their cozy off-season perch in, say, Arizona, that's cool. But don't then play the petulant card.
So go ahead and rock Mike Schmidt ad infinitum - though no one pines for an "alumni week" with him on the prom float. (funny though, it never seemed to bother Schmidt they way something gets under McNabb's skin) Regardless, Schmidt did deliver a champ. Get one and then perhaps the epilogue will be more satisfying to all.
So...
gritty attitude and a quote machine > on the field performance?
Gotcha.
How would one stack Vermiel, Ryan, and Reid?
Quote from: JackStraw on May 03, 2009, 03:10:22 PM
How would one stack Vermiel, Ryan, and Reid?
Like cord wood?
I'm guessing you'd need some kind of crane to move Reid.
Reid
Vermiel
Ryan
I won't even pretend to give a farg about any of them. Because none of them won me a SB.
That's right, it's all about me.
Ryan was a good coach in a lot of ways but he had a fatal flaw. He wasn't just competitive, he was pugilistic and had to fight in every situation. Whether punching Kevin Gilbride on the side line or the sneering "you have to ask the guy in France about that," he couldn't turn it off and that was ultimately his own undoing.
Where it became a problem was when he promoted this to such an extent his defense (Buddy's boys) became at odds with Randall and the offense, and you can't win with a team divided. It started with him encouraging fights in training camp and ended with playoff loss blaming. Not all the D was like that but "leaders" like Seth Joyner (like during his idiotic "vow of silence") gashed the team and pummeled Randall's fragile psyche.
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 03, 2009, 10:36:06 AM
its def not for me but theres nothing wrong with loving mcnabb...but lets be honest here donnie is in bed with banner inc. so theres no chance you wouldnt ever take his side
i dont think mcnabb in bed with banner inc as much as perceived. he may toe the company line but i think that's because he doesn't want to cause any problems or distractions. not because he's a yes man.
if he was in bed with banner i would like to think that they already would have worked out a new deal for him or at least be in the process of doing so.
Or he wouldn't be asking for one at all, or demanding better receivers.
Quote from: Eagaholic on May 03, 2009, 10:20:52 PM
Ryan was a good coach in a lot of ways but he had a fatal flaw. He wasn't just competitive, he was pugilistic and had to fight in every situation. Whether punching Kevin Gilbride on the side line or the sneering "you have to ask the guy in France about that," he couldn't turn it off and that was ultimately his own undoing.
Well, that and the fact that he couldn't coach offense worth shtein. If the Eagles had had a different head coach, we'd probably be talking about Hall of Famer Randall Cunningham right now.
Of course I love Buddy's attitude and that nasty defense. But he was a man with limitations and those limitations are what prevented him from ever progressing in the playoffs.
Quote from: QB Eagles on May 03, 2009, 11:50:43 PM
Quote from: Eagaholic on May 03, 2009, 10:20:52 PM
Ryan was a good coach in a lot of ways but he had a fatal flaw. He wasn't just competitive, he was pugilistic and had to fight in every situation. Whether punching Kevin Gilbride on the side line or the sneering "you have to ask the guy in France about that," he couldn't turn it off and that was ultimately his own undoing.
Well, that and the fact that he couldn't coach offense worth shtein. If the Eagles had had a different head coach, we'd probably be talking about Hall of Famer Randall Cunningham right now.
Of course I love Buddy's attitude and that nasty defense. But he was a man with limitations and those limitations are what prevented him from ever progressing in the playoffs.
while it's true that the offensive coaching was terrible under buddy, a huge problem back with those eagles teams was one of the worst offensive lines in football. as much as i love donnie mac, there isn't a doubt in my mind that if randall had a line infront of him half as good as what mcnabb's had, he would have had just as much overall success as mcnabb if not more.
I must interject Sargey and be a contrarian.
I think McNabb is a smart QB...as much as he fargs up....but maybe Manning, Brady are up there when it comes to QB smarts and awareness. McNabb just kills himself when he misses looks like Baskett naked across the middle in Arizona in the NFC CG.
Randall was mostly talent and less brains. I don't see Randall as the QB who can make reads and adjustments as needed...at least not as much as McNabb does (or doesn't).
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 04, 2009, 01:26:05 AMwhile it's true that the offensive coaching was terrible under buddy, a huge problem back with those eagles teams was one of the worst offensive lines in football.
Absolutely. I put that on Buddy. It's something he basically refused to address, as he kept drafting more defensive playmakers year after year. It's almost like he thought Cunningham was too athletic to require any help from the line. And sometimes, he was. But it's incredible how much that line set back the offense.
I don't understand how any Eagles fan could do anything but love Buddy Ryan. Having said that, I don't understand how any Eagles fan could actually think he was a better coach than Vermeil or even Reid.
Zero playoffs wins is some seriously damning evidence.
Quote from: JackStraw on May 03, 2009, 03:10:22 PM
How would one stack Vermiel, Ryan, and Reid?
(Vermeil)
( Ryan )
( Reid )
Usually the biggest Ball goes to the bottom of the snowman.
Quote from: QB Eagles on May 04, 2009, 06:29:51 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 04, 2009, 01:26:05 AMwhile it's true that the offensive coaching was terrible under buddy, a huge problem back with those eagles teams was one of the worst offensive lines in football.
Absolutely. I put that on Buddy. It's something he basically refused to address, as he kept drafting more defensive playmakers year after year. It's almost like he thought Cunningham was too athletic to require any help from the line. And sometimes, he was. But it's incredible how much that line set back the offense.
yeah, the skill positions on that team were pretty damn good. barnett and williams was a very nice set of recievers. keith jackson was the premier te in the game. walker and byars were both excellent running backs. cunningham had better overall skill players surrounding him than mcnabb, but mcnabb has definitely had the better line.
of course, this is why the eagles have never won a superbowl. they've never really had a "complete" team. they were as close to a complete team as possible in 2004 but they still had some weaknesses.
Mainstream thinking seems to be that McNabb far and away was/is the best QB to ever hit town. (Van Brocklin aside.) Maybe so.
But if he and Reid dribble-off to the future with no SB, five or six years hence I think they will be regarded no better than Jawarski/Vermiel or Cunningham/Ryan - exciting at times, but ultimately flawed. Randall, while a flake, was mainly only a Hoyda at the end. Jawarski, other than being a slobbering homer, was never a Hoyda much ('cept his Hoyda-like performance in the SB debacle).
The best 5 can hope for now is a SB win, where he will be accorded less Hoydadom then current. Kinda grudging appreciation leaving the door open for some level of adulation which he will promptly shut with some Hoyda back-handed comments to which the town will yawn "whatever" and continue drinking and tearing down light poles.
But regardless, in the final Hoyda-meter I submit in descending order of Hoydaness:
Jaws Ryan
Cunningham Vermiel (though he was a bit of a Hoyda during his contemplated return)
McNabb Reid
(And while I can't quant it at the moment, I think Ryan had tougher NFC competition during his time than Reid/McNabb had through most of theirs, allowing McNabb to progress deeper into playoffs before whiffing than Ryan's teams. Again, though, anecdotal on my part. And point well taken - no playoff wins is damning regardless.)
If you're only talking about who the biggest Hoydas were, McNabb and Reid tops the list, no doubt. But they are also clearly much better at their jobs than Cunningham and Ryan were. And I worshiped Cunningham and Ryan.
theres no way mcnabb is a better qb than randall
mcnabb is coached better and faced much worse competition which on paper will elevate him to a level he doesnt derserve but all things equal randall was a much better qb than mcnabb and its not really that close
reid is definitely a better coach than buddy tho
There is no way to prove either opinion. Cunningham was one of my favorite athletes ever but McNabb has been better.
McNabb has been way better from a win loss (i know the competition was different) and passing standpoint.
Cunningham was a qb that revolutionized the position with his rushing abilities (way more than McNabb) and did have some nice years passing as well
I think its actually very close, with the edge to McNabb
Randall was a GIGANTIC hoyda and his teammates hated him because of it.
shtein if he had to play with a teamful players who hated him that makes what he did all the more impressive...can you imagine the offensive line stepping aside and letting people like LT just walking right in on 12
compare that the the extreme coddlelazation of donnie
Ha.
Cunningham was as big a bitch as McNabb. Anyone remember the Michael Jackson hairdo and gold tipped shoe laces?
McNabb surpasses Cunningham in every way except running ability.
Quote from: Rome on May 04, 2009, 05:38:10 PMMcNabb surpasses Cunningham in every way except running ability.
And punting.
Quote from: Rome on May 04, 2009, 05:38:10 PM
Ha.
Cunningham was as big a bitch as McNabb. Anyone remember the Michael Jackson hairdo and gold tipped shoe laces?
McNabb surpasses Cunningham in every way except running ability.
it was the 80's son...you know how pimp a wave and gold tipped shoes/laces were...theres no chance mcnilla could pull that off
Well no, he would have been ten years old.
Quote from: QB Eagles on May 05, 2009, 06:34:46 AM
Quote from: Rome on May 04, 2009, 05:38:10 PMMcNabb surpasses Cunningham in every way except running ability.
And punting.
and fabricating marble and tile countertops, and McNabulous has no candy bar, no sir
(http://www.the700level.com/images/2007/06/06/randall_bar_2.jpg)
Randall was a better video game character too.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/QBEagles/qbeagles.gif)
really? i don't remember randall being in a video game. you of all people should know that.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 05, 2009, 05:44:37 PM
really? i don't remember randall being in a video game. you of all people should know that.
I was of course referring to his amazing abilities in NFL Quarterback Club on Super Nintendo.
never played that game. in fact, i dont think i ever played anything on super nintendo
That's too bad. You should buy a super nintendo only to get F-Zero
i will almost certainly never do that.