This guy deserves some serious credit for becoming one of the better go-to guys on 3rd down. Minus the drop he had (that would have been negated by the Herremans holding penalty) he has some sticky fingers.
He makes big catch after big catch. He's not a burner, but a chain moving possession guy. I always compare him to an Antonio Freeman type guy who just gets first downs. McNabb always looks for him and he comes up with the tough catch. A helluva blocker too.
I love watching him play.
Big. White. Dude.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 05, 2009, 12:59:56 PM
Big. White. Dude.
Every time you say that, I think
white breaded bitches and have to go listen to Nonpoint.
antonio freeman avg more yds per catch than jerry rice...he was a big time big play wr for numerous years...he was not a posession guy
dude could be an All-pro if had any serious speed
I could care less...as long as he keeps finding soft spots in the zone and catches everything that comes his way...whatever
pair his ass up with some legit outside talent and the chains move all day
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 05, 2009, 01:02:53 PM
antonio freeman avg more yds per catch than jerry rice...he was a big time big play wr for numerous years...he was not a posession guy
I was talking about his time as an Eagle, when he was the 3rd guy who moved the sticks.
All he does is make 1st downs.
He's Freddie Mitchell but none of the antics
what makes avant such an effective possesion receiver (other than good hands obviously) and far different from freddie is his strength....posession wr's dont get wide open much and usually have a defender or two all over them and they need to be really strong to make those tough catches while being bodied...freddie was a possesion wr with a speed wr's frame
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 05, 2009, 02:23:01 PM
freddie was a possesion wr with a speed wr's frame
and a crazy star receiver's attitude
I just want to thank my hands for being so great.
Coincidental that the reference is also from right after a playoff win against Minnesota.
Quote from: Die-Hard on January 05, 2009, 03:17:15 PM
I just want to thank my hands for being so great.
one of the best lines ever
Quote from: FastFreddie on January 05, 2009, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 05, 2009, 02:23:01 PM
freddie was a possesion wr with a speed wr's frame
and a crazy star receiver's attitude
And one hell of a farged up mohawk.
Avant is a lot like another former Big 10 WR Bobby Engram, only a little bigger. He certainly seems to make catches when it counts.
I've been calling him "Mr. 3rd down" since about midway last year... and yes, I am ashamed of that.
ill take a solid possession receiver who is not afraid of contact any day. oh and a legit stud/threat/number one receiver would be nice also.
I want a legit stud too...watching Larry Fitz play makes me jealous.
However, with this group here....they are pretty good. And if they stayed together with McNabb they could win a SB win them.
Add a dangerous TE into the mix and its even better.
A stud receiver would be nice, yes, but this team has enough talent at the WR position to get by. Curtis and Jackson are definitely their best tandem of the Andy Reid era. Avant, Baskett and Brown are all good 3-4-5 role players. Greg Lewis is even tolerable as a 6th receiver, special teams guy. Jackson makes this group acceptable in my mind.
The team (and the fans) need to focus on the other areas that need to be addressed. TE, S, OL, FB and RB. WR has finally fallen way down the list of needs for this team, which probably means that they will go out and grab a top tier WR this offseason.
as much as I think Curtis and Jackson are a nice duo, one lacks the essential size of a WR in the X position that can get up after a ball on some bigger defenders, esp in the red zone....but whatever.
i just dont think it fair to ask Mcnabb to place a perfectly thrown 40 yd ball in stride down the sidelines on 3rd and 1 every time
I don't think its fair either. And I think that this team would be served by getting a Boldin or Fitzgerald or whatever. Every team would. I'm just saying that for the first time in years (the TO year not withstanding) WR is not at the top of the list of things the team should be looking for this offseason.
totally disagree....their number 1-2 wr is a 31 year old #3 wr...especially having two number ones i would have no problem taking a wr in the first round and overall they need an upgrade there
No doubt adding a guy like Boldin or Housh would make them better. But I think as constructed now, they could win.
IGY, I just don't see that. Curtis isn't an all-pro but he's alright. Jackson could definitely be a good receiver with some more maturity and consistency. They could use an upgrade, sure, but I would throw my remote through the TV if they used a #1 on a WR this year.
in this nfl theycould win with what they have....just like andy reid could be a sb winning coach
but upgrade the position and you go from could win closer to should win and thats what its all about
If Crabtree is there, and he likely won't be, when they pick I would not scream if they spent a pick on him. But I would prefer to upgrade the spots that rjs mentioned. Upgrading those spots, bringing back McNabb on a new deal and keeping these WRs the same is good with me.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 06, 2009, 11:24:28 AM
IGY, I just don't see that. Curtis isn't an all-pro but he's alright. Jackson could definitely be a good receiver with some more maturity and consistency. They could use an upgrade, sure, but I would throw my remote through the TV if they used a #1 on a WR this year.
of course it would have to be the correct pick at the correct spot but i would love if they got another young stud at wr and if they got that in the first round then so be it im all in
Upgrading the WR position doesn't upgrade the team or even just the offense as much as upgrading the TE and FB positions. A real fullback opens things up for Westbrook (proven) which opens things up for Reid's passing insanity and increases the production of the players they have.
And yes, if Crabtree was there I would change my tune. But he won't be.
Ultimately I want them to draft the best players available and hopefully those players will fit their needs, but the positions I listed initially are much bigger needs than WR right now.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 06, 2009, 11:28:10 AM
If Crabtree is there, and he likely won't be, when they pick I would not scream if they spent a pick on him. But I would prefer to upgrade the spots that rjs mentioned. Upgrading those spots, bringing back McNabb on a new deal and keeping these WRs the same is good with me.
to win now what spots need upgrading more than wr...te is the only one i can think of...sure they need tackles and a safety but that is for the future...to improve the team in the next nine months in order to win it all in jan '10 then wr is at or near the top of the list...when you want to win right away its not enough to have players that if everything goes right could win a championship...you want to be well on the other side of the fence and have talent that should win a title
They'll draft Jordan Shipley
Trade down and draft new OT's
Alright, alright, that was a joke. Why are we taking about the draft in here on the Jason Avant thread? Anyway, Baskett was on Monday Night Live last night and he was talking up the company line. The reason they don't have or need a superstar WR is because they like to have interchangable parts in case of injury or accidental shootings. The conversation came up when someone asked how Burress being suspended affects the Giants. Oh and I don't see the necessity of upgrading the TE position. I think Celek is really a diamond in the rough. He is developing into a real nice addition. He needs to work on the blocking some though.
And like it or not, the Eagles will draft BPA regardless of position.
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 06, 2009, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 06, 2009, 11:28:10 AM
If Crabtree is there, and he likely won't be, when they pick I would not scream if they spent a pick on him. But I would prefer to upgrade the spots that rjs mentioned. Upgrading those spots, bringing back McNabb on a new deal and keeping these WRs the same is good with me.
to win now what spots need upgrading more than wr...te is the only one i can think of...sure they need tackles and a safety but that is for the future...to improve the team in the next nine months in order to win it all in jan '10 then wr is at or near the top of the list...when you want to win right away its not enough to have players that if everything goes right could win a championship...you want to be well on the other side of the fence and have talent that should win a title
I would like another stud DE opposite Cole. Parker and Howard are good role players, but I want another guy who defenses must look after.
TE
DE
FB
RB
OT
WR
That's how I'd rank it right now. Like I said, I would welcome a new WR in, but I don't see it as a pressing need as much as before.
I can agree and disagree on both. It really depends what offense decides to show up. The pass happy offense that needs a legit #1 or the balanced offense which works great having mediocre talent at WR. The fact is this team is having a major identity crisis right now. One week they are balanced, the next they get pass happy. I understand you have to game plan against certain teams but the fact is one works better than the other with the players we have right now. I would rather have a legit #1 than anything right now for the offense. I have next to zero confidence the balanced offense will continue to be utilized on game day, week after week. I'd be much more comfortable with that #1 guy
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 06, 2009, 11:33:03 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 06, 2009, 11:28:10 AM
If Crabtree is there, and he likely won't be, when they pick I would not scream if they spent a pick on him. But I would prefer to upgrade the spots that rjs mentioned. Upgrading those spots, bringing back McNabb on a new deal and keeping these WRs the same is good with me.
to win now what spots need upgrading more than wr...te is the only one i can think of...sure they need tackles and a safety but that is for the future...to improve the team in the next nine months in order to win it all in jan '10 then wr is at or near the top of the list...when you want to win right away its not enough to have players that if everything goes right could win a championship...you want to be well on the other side of the fence and have talent that should win a title
I agree. As far as the skill positions go... if they want to win now... WR is right at the top of the list. I would put it above TE simply because with a true #1 WR, this WR corps goes from OK or pretty good... to one of the overall best in the league. I would feel damn good about trotting out #1 WR, Curtis and Jackson all game while mixing in Avant, Baskett and Brown/Lewis. Celek is more than capable of flourishing with that kind of outside support in a move the chains, red zone type of role.
I would put RB over TE if I actually believed Reid just had some sort of epiphany when it comes to running the ball. Even still, I think it's a top need because of Westbrook's up and down health and it would give an added dimension to the offense. Again... if I thought Andy would do it.
a #1 wr would transform this team to instant title favorite in the nfc
you would have the complete package
a true 1
a burner on the outside (pimp)
the perfect slot guy (curtis)
great posession guy (avant)
the whole spectrum would be covered and with that around westbrook this offense wouldnt have anymore cincy taterskin raven type duds
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 07, 2009, 08:02:00 AM
a #1 wr would transform this team to instant title favorite in the nfc
you would have the complete package
a true 1
a burner on the outside (pimp)
the perfect slot guy (curtis)
great posession guy (avant)
the whole spectrum would be covered and with that around westbrook this offense wouldnt have anymore cincy taterskin raven type duds
Stop it. You're just pissing me off because that's what we should have had THIS year. Any of the #1's they were "rumored" to be going after this past offseason would have worked... including Roy Williams considering he would've had OTA's and an entire training camp to get acclimated. Some would've worked better than others, Fitzgerald at the top of my list... but in the end, the results would be largely the same. We damn sure wouldn't have been fighting for the last wildcard spot a week or two ago.
The crazy part about the Eagles WR's is not that they're bad players at this point, they're just miscast (Curtis as #1, Baskett #2, etc). A true #1 knocks each of them down a notch and coincidentally, into the slot that they're best suited to play. While #1 is doin' his thing against the opposing D's top CB/double coverage... all of a sudden, Pimp is the deep threat and 1 on 1 against a #2 CB, Pimp/Curtis/Avant is in the slot against nickel CB's/Safeties. shtein.
How can you even think that they would avoid those dud games? Andy Reid would still be the coach. Donovan would still be the quarterback. And they still wouldn't run the ball. A WR isn't going to change any of those facts.
A top WR can be the guy to make a gamechanging play with the ball in his hands even if McNabb doesn't do all the heavy lifting ala Westbrook this past Sun.
A top WR makes it reasonable that when Andy gets pass happy, he actually has the players in place to make it effective.
No.
A stud WR would do exactly what Feva and vigy say, and the team would have been better. With that set up, Reid's "pass to set up the run" mentality would be more effective.
But I also agree with rjs. Andy would still do his thing, which I will remind you is not simply his addiction to the pass. Sure, that particular facet of his coaching would not be quite as destructive, but the rest of his schtick would still cause football disaster every third game or so. Sure, the run game would be opened up a bit if the opposition was forced to respect the WRs more, but that doesn't mean Andy would call runs more. It just means those games which the Eagles won easily, they would have won more easily.
He would still call awful games. He would still use timeouts like they came in dozens. He would still fail to adjust his scheme in the midst of a tough game.
I'd love to have had Fitz or Roy, but I'm not convinced it would have been the difference between 9-6-1 and 12-4 as you guys seem to think.
I love you guys.
There are plenty of teams that have 'true #1 receivers' and they all still need to use the run game to be competitive. This idea that adding a receiver will make the Eagles the conference favorite is laughable.
Andy Reid is still their coach for god's sake.
Israeli Army Broads = Hot.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 07, 2009, 08:53:47 AM
There are plenty of teams that have 'true #1 receivers' and they all still need to use the run game to be competitive. This idea that adding a receiver will make the Eagles the conference favorite is laughable.
Andy Reid is still their coach for god's sake.
I never said that they wouldn't still need to run. I also fully admit that Andy would be tempted to pass even more. What I said is when they do pass... it makes them a whole lot more dynamic.
you can disagree/laugh all you want...if they added a bona fide #1 receiver, not only would their red zone issues be reduced (scoring even more points than they already have this year), their running game improves because the defense has to sit back more
and yes...they would be considered the conference favorites because of their defense
No, they wouldn't.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 07, 2009, 08:38:10 AM
How can you even think that they would avoid those dud games? Andy Reid would still be the coach. Donovan would still be the quarterback. And they still wouldn't run the ball. A WR isn't going to change any of those facts.
2004 says (http://chat2.globalpinoy.com/images/emoticons/wave.gif)
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 07, 2009, 09:57:00 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on January 07, 2009, 08:38:10 AM
How can you even think that they would avoid those dud games? Andy Reid would still be the coach. Donovan would still be the quarterback. And they still wouldn't run the ball. A WR isn't going to change any of those facts.
2004 says (http://chat2.globalpinoy.com/images/emoticons/wave.gif)
I'm not ready to compare this team with a young(er) McNabb and a young Westbrook and an extremely weak NFC of 2004, but whatever, if you're trying to make a point you've made it.
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 07, 2009, 09:57:00 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on January 07, 2009, 08:38:10 AM
How can you even think that they would avoid those dud games? Andy Reid would still be the coach. Donovan would still be the quarterback. And they still wouldn't run the ball. A WR isn't going to change any of those facts.
2004 says (http://chat2.globalpinoy.com/images/emoticons/wave.gif)
You yourself have argued that the rest of the division was much weaker in '04, and it was. Reid's schtick doesn't work anymore, and though I admit a stud WR would have improved his chances, I don't admit it would have vaulted the team into front runner status.
save pittsburgh they ROLLED over everyone in the league that year...hell they should have even won the superbowl
the dominance of that offense cancels out any improvement the division might have made since then
No.
So we disagree. About hypotheticals and would haves. Yay.
nothing is definite...but with an offense like that you have a real chance at a superbowl and thats all anyone wants
You sure as hell don't get swept by the farging Skins.
It's ridiculous to claim that.
no.
Do they 'sure as hell' not tie the Bengals or not get blown out by the Ravens? We'd all like to think that one player would have changed the outcome of those games but the fact is that Reid lost a couple of those games and the players laid down and took it up the shteinter for a couple of them. A studmuffin WR doesn't call the plays or make McNabb accurate.
its not one player in the sense that a #1 wr would have caught two toucdowns in each of those games..but he would allow others to bust out as well...imagine curtis in the slot against the other teams #3 corner...imagine the room westbrook would have without the defense bringing their safties up in the box to check him
imagine adding westbrook and mcnabb to the cardinals offense
its amazing how one becomes to defend his stance on such an ongoing issue
rj, philadelphia fans have been crying for years to get a #1 receiver because its obvious what that WR can do for the passing game. and running game..especially a passing game that goes off for 70% of the time
you yourself said we had mediocre/bullshtein receivers from day 1, now if we had a stud WR the outcome of games wouldnt have a chance to change at all?
so why even cry for one?
Westrook would be helpful to the Cards. McNabb would decrease their completion % and increase their overall goofiness by 78%.
Quote from: reese125 on January 07, 2009, 10:51:34 AM
its amazing how one becomes to defend his stance on such an ongoing issue
rj, philadelphia fans have been crying for years to get a #1 receiver because its obvious what that WR can do for the passing game. and running game..especially a passing game that goes off for 70% of the time
you yourself said we had mediocre/bullshtein receivers from day 1, now if we had a stud WR the outcome of games wouldnt have a chance to change at all?
so why even cry for one?
Thank god you're chiming in now. I've said that a WR would help. Of course it would help. I'm just not ready to point at specific games and say 'we would have won that game if Anquan Boldin had been playing.' It's pointless.
The team has BIGGER needs than WR right now.
Quote from: rjs246 on January 07, 2009, 10:43:44 AM
Do they 'sure as hell' not tie the Bengals or not get blown out by the Ravens? We'd all like to think that one player would have changed the outcome of those games but the fact is that Reid lost a couple of those games and the players laid down and took it up the shteinter for a couple of them. A studmuffin WR doesn't call the plays or make McNabb accurate.
It certainly helps McNabb's accuracy. For one, there's likely less dropped balls. Second, as Plax proved for Eli... the ball doesn't always have to be between the numbers for the pass to be completed... or like Fitzgerald did for Warner last week, go up and get a ball in double coverage... instead of having a fast, small WR trying to bring it down.
Is it simply a coincidence that McNabb's most "accurate" year was 2004?
Yes.
Ha. I would slap the shtein out of you if you weren't so refreshing.
The fact that you physically can't might also factor into the equation.
Nonsense. Feva is sitting on my lap right now. No homo.
Slaps can be refreshing.
QuoteJason Avant: He's Mr. Third-and-Whatever
By Ray Parrillo
Inquirer Staff Writer
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. - Jason Avant isn't certain how he carved out his niche as the receiver quarterback Donovan McNabb seems to trust the most when it's third-down-and-whatever.
But after some thought, Avant smiled and said: "Well, I get in the game more on third down."
There's a reason for that. Avant has sure hands and he runs sharp routes in tight spaces. Also, he's willing to deal with the punishment that's often dealt to receivers who run crossing patterns in the middle of the field by guided missiles disguised as defensive backs.
"This is actually new to me," said Avant, who starred at Michigan as a receiver who ran most of his patterns on the outside.
"I've just been doing it for two years now. In college, I was always on the outside, so it's different. But it's receiver play. You just have to learn the intricacies of getting open in the middle. As far as me becoming the third-down receiver, I don't know about that. I just try to be as reliable as I can for Don [McNabb]."
Avant has made several key third-down catches, but the one he made in the Eagles' 23-11 playoff win over the Giants yesterday may have been the biggest. In fact, it can be argued that it was one of the game's three biggest plays.
Trailing, 11-10, in the third quarter, the Eagles faced third and 20 from their own 15-yard line in the third quarter. McNabb escaped a Giants rush and fired a 21-yard completion to Avant over the middle. It shifted field position for the Eagles. More important, it kept alive a drive that led to David Akers' 35-yard field goal that gave the Eagles a 13-11 lead they never relinquished.
"I had the basic cross route and I just kept running the cross and I saw Don scrambling and I just kept on running," Avant said. "After the catch, I just turned around and tried to get the first down."
Avant was limping through the locker room on a sprained knee, but he didn't seem concerned. "I'm all right," he said, which is about as detailed a report on an injury from a player at this time of the season.
A major reason why the Eagles cleared what many assume was their biggest hurdle to the Super Bowl was their third-down conversion rate. They were successful on 50 percent of their tries (7 for 14). To put that in perspective, the league average is 40 percent. During the regular season, the Eagles were a so-so 41.3 percent.
Another critical third-down conversion came after Avant's play. On third and 10, McNabb hit running back Correll Buckhalter for a 19-yard gain to the Giants 22.
But after Avant's conversion, the Eagles pretty much took control of the game on both sides of the ball. Avant said the Eagles felt as if they had the Giants where they wanted at halftime.
"We couldn't wait to play the second half because we felt we were in a really good position," he said. "I don't know - it seemed like the weather warmed up."
Mr Clutch
Avant can catch anything as long as he's falling down backwards.
no problem just be past the first down marker
^^^^
He's the black chad lewis...
Avant is black? I think not.
Big.
White.
Guy.
This year's mister clutch is next year's mister suck.
Quote from: General_Failure on January 12, 2009, 05:37:56 PM
This year's mister clutch is next year's leading WR on the Patriots.
Quote from: Wingspan on January 12, 2009, 04:39:58 PM
He's the black chad lewis...
still needs to work on the roll part. got the stop and drop down pat.
Quote from: EagleFeva on January 12, 2009, 04:39:24 PM
^^^^
Michigan homer. You'll probably be rooting for Breaston and Gabe Watson this week.
To break a leg, sure.
http://youtu.be/XagvsSXSxnY
one thing is for sure and that is he will never die in a fire
I read somewhere that only Fitzgerald catches more "catchable" balls.
Great. Now I'm not only blind but also deaf. Thanks, icehole.
Quote from: Diomedes on August 25, 2013, 06:50:21 AM
I read somewhere that only Fitzgerald catches more "catchable" balls.
good for you i guess.....i don't really know what to say to that....im sure on espn.com its a meaningful number
i personally would like to upgrade that spot
The song cracks me up.
He catches the ball ... with his hands.
abba?
dabba doo
i used to fraggle rock her
now i fraggle sonja
I watched the video but started tuning the song out as it played and wasn't really paying attention to it. But about a minute in, I could have sworn the guy said "He is a negro!", which kind of caught my attention so I rewound it a bit and realized he actually said "He is an Eagle!"
lol
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 25, 2013, 06:47:27 AM
one thing is for sure and that is he will never die in a fire
But hopefully the person singing that song will.
Cut.
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/440878602939142144
killa and herremans the only longer tenured eagles than avant i think
one more time for old time's sake
http://youtu.be/XagvsSXSxnY
(http://nbcsports700level.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/avant-catch.gif)
At least he didn't thank his hands for being great. Good guy and he was huge on 3rd downs, but it'll be nice to have an upgrade there, whether it's Maclin or whoever
The only thing he didn't catch was game winning tds.
plus the ball that was stripped from him in buffalo and the hail mary against the skins
Hate to see him go - but realize it happens
Baltimore
NY Jets
Kansas City
Washington
My predictions on the teams who'll go after him
Good player, had no problem doing the dirty work. I can't imagine he's on the street for more than a week.
i heard on the radio that avant was no 11 all time in eagle receptions and i was kinda taken aback thinking that was high
so for the hell of it i looked up the other division teams and his rank would have been extremely similar on their all time lists
dallas 11th
washington 11th
giants 9th
Cool stat there
I saw the 11th all-time too and was surprised...something like 297 catches.
He was consistent. 40-50 catches seven years going for 12 yards a catch and 1 or 2 TDs. I hope Riley Cooper has it in him to be that good for that long.
Poor man's Anquan Boldin.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2014, 12:30:44 PM
plus the ball that was stripped from him in buffalo and the hail mary against the skins
Unfortunatley my lasting impression of him. Jaqua Parker's boneheaded jump on 4th and short to seal it for Buffalo burns just as deep.
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 04, 2014, 02:50:29 PM
i heard on the radio that avant was no 11 all time in eagle receptions and i was kinda taken aback thinking that was high
so for the hell of it i looked up the other division teams and his rank would have been extremely similar on their all time lists
dallas 11th
washington 11th
giants 9th
Wow! That is impressive. I thought Dallas had a shtein load talented receivers from Hayes, Pearson, Richards, Hill, Irvin, etc. Same with the Racists.
It turns out a shtein load is around ten.
it also turns out the game has changed over the years, so 11th in passes EVER means not much
hes stunk for at least 2-3 years
fine human person it appears but will not missed or even brought up again.