We're all hard pressed for some Eagles talk so I figured this was thread worthy:
link (http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/99-...07-1382940.html)
Quote10 questions facing defense
By: REUBEN FRANK
When the Eagles' newly constructed first-team defense takes the field at Lehigh on Wednesday morning, a huge pile of questions will begin to be answered.
When last season ended in New Orleans, the Eagles' starting defense included Dhani Jones, Rod Hood, Darwin Walker, Darren Howard, Trent Cole and Omar Gaither.
Jones was released and resurfaced with the Saints, Hood signed with the Cards as a free agent and Walker was traded to the Bills as part of the Takeo Spikes deal. Howard, Cole and Gaither are still Eagles but not guaranteed an opening-day starting spot.
Do the math and it's possible the Eagles will have more than a 50 percent turnover from their starting defense on Jan. 13, when their 2006 season ended with a playoff loss to the Saints.
In two 2007 playoff games, the Eagles allowed 740 total yards, 393 of them on the ground. So it's no surprise that head coach Andy Reid this offseason has tried to reshape the team's defense.
The Eagles last year ranked 26th in the NFL in rush defense and for the fourth straight year failed to have anybody reach double figures in sacks.
With training camp just a few days away, let's look at 10 key issues facing Reid and defensive coordinator Jim Johnson as the Eagles try to once again become one of the NFL's elite defenses.
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
Kearse had 36 sacks in his first three years with the Titans. Since his 26th birthday, he has 30 sacks in five seasons, two of which he lost to injuries. He hasn't reached double figures since 2001, he's coming off a season-ending injury and he turns 31 before opening day.
Kearse is due to earn $5.2 million this year, but can he produce $5.2 million worth of pass pressure? So far, Kearse has fewer eight-sack seasons as an Eagle than Mike Mamula. He was off to a great start before he got hurt last year, but the Eagles need more than a great start from Kearse. They need a great season.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
The sight of Brodrick Bunkley squeezed into a tiny seat in the back of a packed Embraer commuter jet on his way to Indianapolis last year symbolized his season. Bunkley had missed the team flight and was stuck on a commercial flight for a game he was suspended for.
It was a lost season for Bunkley, the first-round pick out of Florida State. He reported late, wasn't in shape, played only a few snaps per game, and never got out of Johnson's doghouse.
Now, it seems like Bunkley has flipped the switch. He's in shape, he's got a positive attitude and he's a projected starter. Is it all lip service or is he on the brink of stardom?
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
Can he still play? It's that simple. Trotter wore down as last year wore on and was a shadow of his former all-pro self by the playoffs. Omar Gaither can play in the middle and took reps there during minicamps, but he's no Trotter. If the Eagles are going to make a dramatic improvement on defense this year, Trotter has to make a dramatic improvement in his 10th NFL season.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
Considine is a Johnson favorite because of his deep understanding of the defense and knack for being in the right place at the right time. Fans are down on Considine because he got trampled a few times in rush defense, but Johnson hasn't wavered in his support, saying he'd be "shocked" if Considine doesn't become an outstanding player.
Considine looks bigger and stronger than as a rookie, when a shoulder injury left him unable to lift and maintain his strength. But if he can't parlay that strength into production, look for Quintin Mikell to get a shot at strong safety.
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
Three sacks in his first four games, then two sacks the rest of the season for Howard, who had only five solo tackles in his last six games. Howard will be 31 in November and has surpassed five sacks just once in the last four seasons. The fear is that he's just an average player at the end of the line. Don't be shocked if he's gone by opening day.
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
He's never played an NFL snap and he's never played linebacker. But Gocong finds himself the Eagles' starting strong-side linebacker, at least for now. The Eagles have some flexibility here — moving Spikes to strong and starting Gaither at weak — but they want Gocong to succeed. He has the size and speed to do it, but it's all just a projection right now.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
Dawkins keeps himself in remarkable shape, but the way he plays the game takes a toll. At some point — not that far off — Dawkins will walk away from football. While he's still playing, the Eagles need him to continue making big plays at a brisk pace. They have so few playmakers on defense, they can't afford a dropoff in Dawkins' production.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
Spikes comes from Buffalo as something of a mystery. He hasn't been the same since he tore his Achilles in September of 2005. He's now 30 years old and three years removed from his last big-time season. He has to be better than Dhani Jones. But can Spikes be the playmaker at outside linebacker the Eagles haven't had since William Thomas?
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
Hood was one of the top nickel corners in the game when he was at his best and there was no dropoff from Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard. But Hood had an off year and is now in Arizona. The oft-injured James gets the first shot at nickel this summer. If he can play as well as he brags, the Eagles will be fine.
But James isn't Hood. Look for teams to go three wide against the Eagles often to test James.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Six sacks the first five games, then just two the rest of the year. Cole was unstoppable early but wore down under the strain of starting in place of Kearse. The Eagles will get the most out of him as a third-down specialist, but they may not have that luxury.
For those with ADD I went back and bolded the questions
1. Define 'Play.' Will he be a wrecking ball like he was with the Titans? No. Can he play up to the level he did in 2004? Yes.
2. I hope so. There are decent veterans behind him but he's got buckets of skill. Let's hope last year was a blip.
3. Trotter's got enough left to be a 2-down linebacker. They have Gaither for the other down, so yeah, he's fine.
4. No farging way.
5. I asked this same question and got lambasted here a few months ago. You go, Reuben.
6. Who knows? I hope so. I also doubt it.
7. Dawkins >>>>>>>> God. He's a rare breed who could play another 5 years. The last six weeks of the regular season last year proved that.
8. Yes. Takeo's going to be a force.
9. I don't think he's great but he's probably as good as Rod Hood and that's good enough for a nickel corner.
10. Killa's legit. He better be if Kearse or Howard shtein the bed again, that's for sure.
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
I think he can. Regardless of what people say the fact remains that teams are still scared of him because of his speed. So even if he's not getting 10+ sacks he's still facing constant double teams and sometimes doubles with a back chipping him. So we can ponder this all we want but the proof is in how teams scheme against him. If he was done they would not pay any attention to him. He's still a freak and he makes everyone on that DL better by being on the field. He was off to a great start last year. I think we see a good year from him.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
We better hope so. I like what we've heard from him and the Eagles are banking on him being a stud. I think last year was an eye-opener. I've said before that I thought he came into last year thinking that since he KILLED everyone at the college level with his strength he thought he could do that in the NFL; he was wrong. Now he focused on technique and getting into better shape and we'll see what happens. But if he does live up to the potential I really like the starting duo of Patterson and Bunkley.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
Yes. I'm a Trotter homer but like Romey said; he has enough to be a 2-down MIKE and then give way to Gaither in the nickel and dime packages. He's slimmed down and will be effective. Of course he needs protection in front of him and I think Bunkley and Ian Scott will help him there.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
I'm not really on the Considine hate-train like most. I would have loved to have seen Merriweather or Nelson at SS, but they could do much worse at SS. Like Damon Moore or Blaine Bishop. Mike Lewis lost his game the past two years and while Considine didn't impress in run-support he was decent in coverage. And the strength issue was a big one. Last year was essentially his rookie year and he was not horrible. There seems to be a theme with SS's; either you are a great run stopper and an in-the-box guy (Mike Lewis) or you're a guy who might not be able to thump guys in the box but can cover deep and stick a TE here and there.
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
I hope so. Howard was injured last year and that affected his play. I watched him in camp, when he was healthy, and we saw what he did early on. He can play. He is versatile because he slides down in passing situations. Losing Kearse last year hurt Howard and Cole. Howard had to play through the injury and lost his game. Cole wore down. They could not sustain the loss of Jevon because they had no depth at DE.
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
That might be the biggest question on this defense. He gets killed by people because he's being switched and was a small-school player but he's got potential. He is a "football player". He is the kind of guy who shows up on film. That is the type of players the Pats draft. You might not have heard of them but they find guys who show up around the ball and end up playing well because they are just football players; not workout warriors who someone falls in love with because they run a great 40 in Indy. Is he that guy? Let's see. Because if it does not work out they have options there. Bradley is a true-SAM; Spikes can slide over with OG going to WIL. And my sleeper, a guy who I really watched at Lehigh last year is TANK DANIELS. He has SAM-size and is fast. He will make the team this year.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
Everything. Next question.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
Yes. And even if he's not, he isn't Dhani goddamn Jones.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
One of the things I will be watching when I go up this year. Is his play backing up his mouth? Look, Rod Hood sucked last year. He was a good nickel guy early here but he was getting smoked last year. And his run support was shtein too. He Deion'd more tackles than Primetime himself. Good riddance to Rod. Will James is a starter in this league and will play well.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Like I said about Howard; losing Kearse hurt everyone. Cole wore down, Howard wore down. He needs to be a force but at the same time needs to get his rest. He also needs to develop another move because his speed isn't Freak-like where he cam blow by everyone at any moment. The Eagles desperately need a deep DE rotation because it helps everyone when that happens (duh). If JJ has the luxury of 4 healthy and productive DEs this defense is awesome.
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
He'll still be effective, though not like he was before and he's also about as fragile as Westbrook.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
Probably not.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
Didn't have anything last year, so why would that change now?
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
Well yea, but a pretty mediocraly
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
Yes, but he won't play too much.
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
No.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
The last remnants of some steroids and a Big Mac
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
No, he is not.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
No.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Yea, kid's pretty damn good.
SUPER BOWL !!11!!
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
He'll do alright, but this his last year as an Eagle. 6.66 sacks.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
No.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
Dumb as a rock but his motor still runs strong so yeah, he's got this year left and that's it.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
No
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
Yes. He had an off year. He'll be fine.
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
Nope
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
One more year of good to great football. Another year of decent football and great locker room prescence. Then audi like a saudi on 9/11.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
No. But he's still better than any other LB the Eagles have...so he'll do.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
Goddamn, it would be nice if he was. But I think not.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Without a doubt, yes.
so many of these questions depend on the gameplan. im a strong believer in taking advantage of the players you have and putting them in position to use them at their best potential. so many questions are asked of the players, but in reality are the coaches actually doing their jobs? its like chess...stick with the same moves and expecting results is murder. the trend ive seen is when the game plan changes or adaptes the results are good, but when they make the same moves, it doesn't work.
Lots of old beat up question marks to go with lots of young unproven question marks on this defense...
Quote from: rjs246 on July 26, 2007, 12:24:25 AM
Lots of old beat up question marks to go with lots of young unproven question marks on this defense...
Welcome to the Philadelphia Eagles Defense.
Pretty standard fare as far as the questions go. Injury related questions are pointless as there's no telling how the person's body will recover.
Bunkley's the biggest question for me. Will he show something or be another McDougal? Considine's a close second but I'm still giving last year a bit of a flier since I view it as his rookie season. This year is make or break. I think the Gocong thing is ridiculous. I don't think he'll ever amount to a good LB, but who knows. I find myself having a hard time caring either way. I just can't help but think he's wasting a roster spot on someone that might be good.
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
For up to two games at a time. A full season? No.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
No.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
No.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
No.
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
To even assume they'd cut him would mean they have four guys as good or better than him. They are..?
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
No.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
Enough for this season, at least.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
No.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
No, but who is?
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Yes.
i stole gf's password
The 11th question is whether or not Jim Johnson has suddenly realized that his scheme needed a complete overhaul.
If not, the defense will be more of the same.
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
I still think he can... though he clearly isn't the force he was early in his career. He's still the primary pass rusher, and he helps out everyone else on this D-line so he needs to stay healthy and be a viable threat at LDE.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
If not... the D is in trouble. He's really a big piece of what the Eagles figure to want to do. In addition to the obvious run stopping... he needs to be able to do his part in getting to the QB so the D doesn't have to blitz to get sacks. I'm not expecting Tommie Harris this season, but I do think he'll be way ahead of what he was last year.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
For 2 downs, yeah. He can still tackle, he can still chase RB's... and he'll still shoot the wrong gap from time to time. As long as they can avoid getting Trotter isolated in pass coverage on a regular basis... he should be fine. Gaither's waiting there regardless.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
I've never really been that confident in Considine as far as run support and I'm not convinced his "adding weight" is going to make that much of a difference. To me, run support's not so much about weight as it is about technique and attitute. I think he'll continue to be adequate in pass coverage.
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
Of course he will. We're not so stacked at DE that we can afford to let him go. I think that if both he and Kearse stay healthy... he can have a damn good season because he'll benefit from a whole lot of one on one matchups at RDE. Matter of fact, I'm hoping he retains the starting spot at this point because as much as I love Killa, I love him even more as a pass rushing "specialist".
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
As much as I want this kid to succeed at SAM, I just see Witten, Shockey and Cooley eating his ass up more times than not. I hope he can prove me wrong.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
Maybe we should start looking at his replacement in 2017.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
Probably not... but he doesn't really have to be. Let's be real here. Takeo Spikes at 80% of what he was is still better than any LB the Eagles have had here not named Trotter or Emmons since Willie T. I do think he's going to be a difference maker for the D, making some big plays... and (more important) bringing some sound TACKLING to the defense. That's always been a strongpoint for Spikes.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
Nah, probably not. He thinks he's Champ Bailey or somebody though. I don't think there's much of a chance he takes Sheldon's starting job... but I think (health provided) that he's as good a nickel corner as there is. Again, when healthy... he was a starting CB in this league... and a pretty good one. We get the most out of him this year and then he'll bolt after that to go after a staring job somewhere else.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Like I said earlier... I like him as an every down player, but I love him as a pass rush specialist.
Quote from: Wingspan on July 26, 2007, 08:06:11 AM
The 11th question is whether or not Jim Johnson has suddenly realized that his scheme needed a complete overhaul.
If not, the defense will be more of the same.
holla!
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
Can he play? Yeah. Will he play like the old Freak? No, no way in hell. He's gotta stay healthy, and for awhile offenses will still respect him, but after awhile he'll begin to get treated like an average end. I don't even think he'll make it eight games, and this will be his last season with the Birds.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
I don't believe the hype. Dude showed absolutely nothing last year. Zip. Now we're supposed to believe he is going to make a complete 180, and go from completely invisible, to a dominant force? I've heard that before. I'm not so worried. I think Reagor and Scott were upgrades by themselves, so if Bunkley is a dud, it's not like there is an abyss behind him.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
For two downs......maybe. I think by the end of the season Gaither will be taking most of the snaps. Trotter looked like complete ass as the season wore down. An old man.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
I think Considine will do a decent job. I remember a story my old man told me about going to boot camp. He said if when you are done, if your drill instructors can barely remember your name, you did alright. I think this will be Considine. Not going to be making jaw dropping plays, highlight reels, but you won't see him making many boneheaded stupid mistakes. He'll be invisible, both in a good way and a bad one.
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
No doubt. Who would replace him?
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
I think they are just trying to boost the kid's confidence at this point. I don't think he'll be the opening day SAM. I believe he won't be a total waste however. He can play as a situational DE, or the joker. Here's hoping Tank or Bradley show us something in camp, I do not want Spikes moved from the WIL.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
Highly enriched plutonium apparently.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
No way is he like he was in Cincy or Buffalo a few years back. He's gotten older. If he he 85-90% percent of what he was before the Achilles, he's still a beast. Go back and look at the tape of when he was fresh against New England last year. He disrupted a lot of what the Pats were trying to do on offense. He's only more confident and stronger in the achilles.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
I don't think he is, according to him, Lito should be worried. I think there is a chance he could outplay Sheldon at CB though.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
Nope. The dude is so out of his mind high motor, he burns himself out it seems. Do like Mike Vick, and chain his ass to a car axle until a passing situation.
1. Can Jevon Kearse play anymore?
He can play, but his knee may think otherwise. If the defensive tackle position doesn't improve drastically from last year it won't matter.
2. Has Brodrick Bunkley really figured it out?
I doubt he's figured it out, but he wouldn't be the projected starter if he had no idea what he's doing. Fortunately, they'll be able to rotate DTs a lot.
3. Does Jeremiah Trotter have anything left?
No. Trotter sucks.
4. Can Sean Considine survive at strong safety?
No one really knows. I have no doubt he could be a fantastic backup, but he's got to be better than the other SS on the team
5. Will Darren Howard even make the team?
Yes.
6. Is Chris Gocong really an NFL linebacker?
Yes. Unfortunately, he's an outside linebacker in a 3-4 system.
7. What's left in Brian Dawkins' tank?
Running on fumes. I see a year or two left.
8. Is he the Takeo Spikes of old?
Better than the other LBs, but not the Spikes of old.
9. Is Will James as good as he says?
Lets hope so. Worst case scenario, he's an upgrade at nickel back.
10. Is Trent Cole an every-down player?
No.
An FYI on Considine;
I saw a pic of him in the Inky and on CSN and he definitely looks like he bulked up.
Well that's nice. Really, it can't hurt. But I'm not exactly hopeful.
Bulking up fom 195 isn't hard to do - especially when your playing weight is usually closer to 210
QuoteConsidine is a Johnson favorite because of his deep understanding of the defense and knack for being in the right place at the right time. Fans are down on Considine because he got trampled a few times in rush defense, but Johnson hasn't wavered in his support, saying he'd be "shocked" if Considine doesn't become an outstanding player.
(http://www.slabiak.dk/forum_pictures/understand-huh-hunh.jpg)
I don't believe the hype. Dude showed absolutely nothing last year. Zip. Now we're supposed to believe he is going to make a complete 180, and go from completely invisible, to a dominant force? I've heard that before. I'm not so worried. I think Reagor and Scott were upgrades by themselves, so if Bunkley is a dud, it's not like there is an abyss behind him.
best answer in the thread...should bunkley be improved sure...but this notion that hes gonna flip a switch and become some force is pretty far fetched...imo there a bigger chance he does what he did last year than there is he becomes a stud...
however i totally agree that they have some nice options to fall back on...DT is much like LB...i dont think bunkley or spikes have to be the savoir that people think hope or say they will be...they just have to be better than their respective positions were last year...and that isnt hard to do...
kearse has been just ok for about five years now...long before he wrecked his knee...you gotta say its up in the air as to how well he can play this year
i dont get the howard being cut talk...kearse gets cut before howard...tho obviously there is a miniscule chance of either
im tired of the trent cole needs to be in a rotation crap...based on talent hes either good enough to be a full time starter or hes a back up...what does derrick burgess have that cole doesnt?...or any other full time defensive end that doesnt play in a rotation....btw hes good enough to be a full time starter
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 26, 2007, 12:06:06 PM
..what does derrick burgess have that cole doesnt?
Being able to play in the dumbest farging defensive "scheme" in the entire NFL. Oakland lets him go after the QB
every single play, regardless of the situation.
Cole made more than a few stops against the run last year...he's fine as a full time starter.
I like Scott. I think he's going to stand out in this group.
Good comparison on Burgess and Cole in the sense that all Burgess needed was a shot to play and he blossomed. Oh, and he had to keep all ligaments and tendons intact too.
But Killa, as much as I like him, needs to prove he can withstand a full season. I give him a pass on 2005 because he showed a lot as a 5th round pick from Brent Celek U. on a zesty team...and rookies always hit the wall. But last year he faded too. He also needs more than a speed rush and a bull rush...he has to learn to set guys up better to get more pressure.
But a lot of the DE issues go back to Kearse not being there. He's the guy who makes the pass rush go because of the attention he gets. If he's out there, regardless of what he's doing, he's being paid attention to.
If, if, if Bunkley can add what he is supposed to add, that is one helluva DL simply because Bunkley would draw attention too.
But Killa, as much as I like him, needs to prove he can withstand a full season
see this is what i dont get...define withstand?...what is so special about trent cole vs other players...hes bigger than some (burgess for example) is in as good a shape as any and stronger than most...so what do you mean by withstand
if you mean he has to prove he can play at a high level for the whole season then fine...which as i said means you wanna know if hes good enough to be an nfl starter...but this withstand stuff as if hes out of shape or the size of a safety doesnt fly imo
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 26, 2007, 12:29:38 PM
But Killa, as much as I like him, needs to prove he can withstand a full season
see this is what i dont get...define withstand?...what is so special about trent cole vs other players...hes bigger than some (burgess for example) is in as good a shape as any and stronger than most...so what do you mean by withstand
if you mean he has to prove he can play at a high level for the whole season then fine...which as i said means you wanna know if hes good enough to be an nfl starter...but this withstand stuff as if hes out of shape or the size of a safety doesnt fly imo
Take out withstand and replace it with consistent. That's what I'm taking about. He has to be able to get to the QB late in the season, something he hasn't shown he can do yet. I think he can do it, but he's got to show it.
There's no better way to see if he can do it than to play him full time.
IGY its not a question of whether he's good enough to be a starter or not. The point is that he is MUCH more dangerous coming in on fresh legs on 3rd down. If they can keep him in that sort of rotation all year, he'll notch double digit sacks.
Being fresh goes a long way in the NFL.
Quote from: Munson on July 26, 2007, 01:02:41 PM
IGY its not a question of whether he's good enough to be a starter or not. The point is that he is MUCH more dangerous coming in on fresh legs on 3rd down. If they can keep him in that sort of rotation all year, he'll notch double digit sacks.
Being fresh goes a long way in the NFL.
Clown.
Clown speaks the truth, douche.
Battle to Internet Death: Clown vs. Douche
my money is on douche every time
IGY its not a question of whether he's good enough to be a starter or not. The point is that he is MUCH more dangerous coming in on fresh legs on 3rd down. If they can keep him in that sort of rotation all year, he'll notch double digit sacks.
Being fresh goes a long way in the NFL.
so why doesnt derrick burgess richard seymour jevon kearse julius peppers brian dawkins or any other player in the league come off the bench...fresh legs is so important in the nfl
gotta agree with question #11.
JJ really seems to be stuck on his old ways to the point its no longer working. every yr whoever is doing the eagles game mentions "OMG EAGLES BLITZ EVERYPLAY!" and really we havent had a dominating blitzing defense for about 3-4 yrs now. not that the type that intimidates ppl or forces mistakes. i would love to see it again but each yr we get picked apart with the running game, our D line is hit with injuries and we do not get enough sacks, and in the off season we add some fastballs who dont do squat.
as worried as i am about mcnabb coming back healthy the Defense really scares me and not in a good way.
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 26, 2007, 01:21:37 PM
so why doesnt derrick burgess richard seymour jevon kearse julius peppers brian dawkins or any other player in the league come off the bench...fresh legs is so important in the nfl
I'm always hearing top-flight running backs talk about how fresh they need their legs to be. How they're much stronger in the first quarter than they are in the last. Always.
i kinda agree that that cole is probably better suited as part of a rotation. he lost a lot of explosiveness once Kearse got hurt and he was forced to start play starter's reps.
Judas.
Quote from: rjs246 on July 26, 2007, 01:56:10 PM
Judas.
stare at your computer screen and say that 10 times and Dio will appear
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 26, 2007, 01:21:37 PM
IGY its not a question of whether he's good enough to be a starter or not. The point is that he is MUCH more dangerous coming in on fresh legs on 3rd down. If they can keep him in that sort of rotation all year, he'll notch double digit sacks.
Being fresh goes a long way in the NFL.
so why doesnt derrick burgess richard seymour jevon kearse julius peppers brian dawkins or any other player in the league come off the bench...fresh legs is so important in the nfl
Way to go hyperbole!
Didn't say every player in the NFL should rotate in. But even Ray Charles could see that Cole has been much more effective rotating in on 3rd down. If he were to be kept fresh like that for an entire 16 games, he'd have 12+ sacks.
ray charles couldn't he's dead
and on top of that, even when alive, he was blind
I'll edit it to past tense, just for you.
and what makes you think cole has to come off the bench and all these other guys dont...cause hes out of shape...too small...whats your reason?
Quote from: Munson on July 26, 2007, 01:10:24 PM
Clown speaks the truth, douche.
that made me laugh
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 26, 2007, 02:30:20 PM
and what makes you think cole has to come off the bench and all these other guys dont...cause hes out of shape...too small...whats your reason?
If I knew the reason why, I'd be on some NFL conditioning staff.
You've seen it, I've seen it, everyone has seen it...He is much more effective coming in on 3rd down, and when he has been asked to take over the starter role he's worn down as the season has progressed and hasn't produced as much. However, the drop in numbers might also be due to teams realizing that HE was the guy that needed to get the double teams without Kearse in the line up.
maybe the eagles should not play with a line then for the first half and then bring them in to start the 3rd quarter cause cole was their best lineman last year
If I knew the reason why, I'd be on some NFL conditioning staff.
aka you have no idea what the hell you are talking about and at some point in your young life you heard a soundbite saying some team somewhere had a player who was successful coming off the bench and was "fresh"...so now youre just running wild with it...to insinuate cole has a conditioning problem is one of the dumbest things youve ever said...the guy is a specimen
cole should start for a whole season but aside from your whole "conditioning" probe....it is pretty obvious that cole has been a lot more effective as a sack specialist on passing downs than as a every down player. that doesnt mean i think he needs to come in on 3rd downs only or not start but the #s dont lie about his production thus far.
i dont know if its conditioning or not but thats what his work so far shows.
Quote from: Munson on July 26, 2007, 11:28:22 PM
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 26, 2007, 02:30:20 PM
and what makes you think cole has to come off the bench and all these other guys dont...cause hes out of shape...too small...whats your reason?
You've seen it, I've seen it, everyone has seen it...He is much more effective coming in on 3rd down, and when he has been asked to take over the starter role he's worn down as the season has progressed and hasn't produced as much. However, the drop in numbers might also be due to teams realizing that HE was the guy that needed to get the double teams without Kearse in the line up.
Him coming in on 3rd down is more about how tire the OL is when he comes in fresh. Cole just needs to even out his motor as Dawk would say. Dawk said a while back that the good players are the ones who can stay in high gear and not burn out too early. I think Killa understands this, plus last year he was being double teamed on every play thanks the zesty play of the rest of the DL
it is pretty obvious that cole has been a lot more effective as a sack specialist on passing downs than as a every down player. that doesnt mean i think he needs to come in on 3rd downs only or not start but the #s dont lie about his production thus far.
i will fully admit that its possible trent cole just isnt that good and hes a back up nfl lineman...i happen to think he has all the tools to be a nfl starter but maybe im wrong
i just take umbrage with people that say hes to small or has a conditioning problem...thats just retarded
Killa is a big dood, he just needs to work on Cardio. Honestly i cant imagine conditioning not being the focus this year for him.
his cardio is fine....he was running all over the field during the late season winning streak last year...he just wasnt finishing...gettin a lot of mamulas...
it wasnt like he wasnt getting off the line...i notcied what was happening A LOT was him getting to far outside...he needs to come up with a second or third move cause the tackles were anticipating him coming outside everytime and basically theyd give him a shove which would put him too wide and hed end up getting to the feet of the qb a second to late
i think the key for him now is technique and just maturing and realizing this is the nfl and you cant use your athleticism to get you by in using the same type rush every down...linemen adjust to you and now you must adjust to them...WOW im just full of cliches this morning
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 27, 2007, 07:56:33 AM
his cardio is fine....he was running all over the field during the late season winning streak last year...he just wasnt finishing...gettin a lot of mamulas...
it wasnt like he wasnt getting off the line...i notcied what was happening A LOT was him getting to far outside...he needs to come up with a second or third move cause the tackles were anticipating him coming outside everytime and basically theyd give him a shove which would put him too wide and hed end up getting to the feet of the qb a second to late
i think the key for him now is technique and just maturing and realizing this is the nfl and you cant use your athleticism to get you by in using the same type rush every down...linemen adjust to you and now you must adjust to them...WOW im just full of cliches this morning
IGY full of Cliche's and Hyperbole? You kid!
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 27, 2007, 07:56:33 AM
his cardio is fine....he was running all over the field during the late season winning streak last year...he just wasnt finishing...gettin a lot of mamulas...
it wasnt like he wasnt getting off the line...i notcied what was happening A LOT was him getting to far outside...he needs to come up with a second or third move cause the tackles were anticipating him coming outside everytime and basically theyd give him a shove which would put him too wide and hed end up getting to the feet of the qb a second to late
i think the key for him now is technique and just maturing and realizing this is the nfl and you cant use your athleticism to get you by in using the same type rush every down...linemen adjust to you and now you must adjust to them...WOW im just full of cliches this morning
Couldn't agree more. I think he's more than capable of being an every down player in the NFL. Is work ethic and conditioning are more than fine. I'm just not sure he's
there yet... and while he is developing those other moves (I think he actually has a pretty decent bull rush as well)... I like him most as a sack specialist.
It's not so cut and dry as he either is a full-time starter or a career 3rd down guy.
Exactly. I'm not saying he's 100% not a starter, or whatever...but anyone can see he's been more effective coming in off the bench on 3rd downs as a sack specialist.
Christ IGY I know you're on his nuts but you're acting like we're attacking him or something. Calm down and slowly remove his jewels from your mouth. He's a great player and fine as a starter...just easy to see how much more effective he's been rotating in.
And stop with this "you must have heard so and so and ran with it blah blah blah..." I know a hell of a lot more about playing the game of football then you ever will. And at no point did I say Trent Cole has a conditioning problem. Ever. Stop speaking in hyperbole, you won't seem like such an idiot who can't read posts.
Christ IGY I know you're on his nuts but you're acting like we're attacking him or something. Calm down and slowly remove his jewels from your mouth.
me: "i will fully admit that its possible trent cole just isnt that good and hes a back up nfl lineman"
mmm yeah his penis tastes so good...who exactly cant read?
And at no point did I say Trent Cole has a conditioning problem. Ever.
you: "If I knew the reason why, I'd be on some NFL conditioning staff."
And stop with this "you must have heard so and so and ran with it blah blah blah..." I know a hell of a lot more about playing the game of football then you ever will.
ahaha....you cant even piss straight...everyone of your posts screams acne laced prepubescent nerd yell out loud so the world will take me seriously douchbag...go fake drunk on the internet some more you little twat
I think too much blame is solely being placed upon Cole and not enough along the whole D-Line. The DTs last year got hardly any pressure up the middle or absorbed double teams consistently. I haven't seen film but because of the poor push up the middle Cole may have been double-teamed more knowing that he is more of a threat coming off the edge.
If Kearse can stay healthy and Bunkley can step up, I think Cole's production can go up as well. I don't think it is a matter of his conditioning, strength, tangibles, intangibles, etc. I think Phreak is correct that (1) he needs better line play by his teammates and (2) he needs to develop better technique on the outside and can't just rely on his speed.
Plus, I think Ian Scott rotating in will help a lot among the DTs. He has been somewhat of an underachiever until now but hopefully he can find his niche in this defense. I remember Darwin Walker was an underachiever in Arizona before he came to the Eagles and blossomed as a very good passing rushing DT during his time year absent some forgettable line play. Hopefully Scott can blossom into the run stuffing DT/balanced DT that he was labeled as in Chicago.
Juqua Thomas is a 3rd down "passing rushing specialist/joker", Cole is as close to an every-down DE as you can get -- he just needs some help.
Quote from: ice grillin you on July 27, 2007, 04:02:34 PM
Christ IGY I know you're on his nuts but you're acting like we're attacking him or something. Calm down and slowly remove his jewels from your mouth.
me: "i will fully admit that its possible trent cole just isnt that good and hes a back up nfl lineman"
mmm yeah his penis tastes so good...who exactly cant read?
And at no point did I say Trent Cole has a conditioning problem. Ever.
you: "If I knew the reason why, I'd be on some NFL conditioning staff."
And stop with this "you must have heard so and so and ran with it blah blah blah..." I know a hell of a lot more about playing the game of football then you ever will.
ahaha....you cant even piss straight...everyone of your posts screams acne laced prepubescent nerd yell out loud so the world will take me seriously douchbag...go fake drunk on the internet some more you little twat
Goddamn you're retarded. Not just some Forrest Gump shtein either, you're farging down syndrome, mother did coke when pregnant, dropped on the head as a baby retarded. Or you just can't read.
Just because he's good enough to be a starting NFL DE, which he is, doesn't mean he can't be more effective coming off the bench on 3rd downs as a pass rushing specialist. Like Feva said, it's not 100% one way or the other. Yes, he's played well as a starting DE. Yes, despite that fact, he's done much better in a 3rd down pass rushing role. Why? Probably because he was just resting for two downs while the opposing OLineman he's about to bitch slap just spent the last two downs on the field getting beat up.
As for the "conditioning" comment, If I knew someway to make a player, any player, not get worn down as the season goes on, I'd be a very very rich man. Stop being so farging stupid and speaking in hyperbole. Not in one post did I say Cole is too small or too out of shape. He's just proven so far to put up much better numbers as a #3 rotational pass rushing DE then he has as an everydown starter.
And yes, I always have and always will know more about playing the game of football then you, fargtard. Either that or you just choose to act more stupid then you really are.
What IGY is saying, I think, is that any DE can be more effective coming in on 3rd downs because he is then well-rested. And coming in only on third down implies that he either (1) lacks conditioning and/or (2) doesn't have strength to play on every snap. Otherwise, you'd think he would be on the field for every snap absent some circumstance where JJ may want to put in a particular package that someone else may be better suited to handle.
And I don't think this discussion involves any hyperbole. Hyperbole is an overstatement or exaggeration. I don't think anyone is exaggerating by saying that any DE will be more rested by virtue of not playing much and therefore can be more effective since he would have more energy. I think that's factually true. Essentially, saying that he's better on 3rd downs because he's well-rested can be attributed to any DE in the league. So it's not something unique to Cole's situation.
I think Cole can play on every snap, he just needs more help from the players to his left and needs to develop better pass rushing techniques and learn to setup blockers like Phreak said.
it goes without saying that munson has no idea what hyperbole means but still you explained what is going on here very well...you left out the part about him being a clueless bitchmade pissant tho
less words you pricks
Cole is Gawd. End story.
Owning up to D blame (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles/20070802_Owning_up_to_D_blame.html)
QuoteOwning up to 'D' blame
Dawkins says defense is reason Eagles lost in playoffs
By LES BOWEN
bowenl@phillynews.com
YONG KIM/Daily News
Eagles' Brian Dawkins spoke to defense about upcoming season.
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BETHLEHEM, Pa. - Eagles defensive players weren't surprised, cornerback Sheldon Brown said yesterday, when All-Pro safety Brian Dawkins stood up at their first gathering of training camp to remind his mates of a bitter truth: It was the defense's fault the 2006 season ended in a second-round playoff loss in New Orleans. They were the ones who couldn't get off the field as the final minutes ticked away. They were the ones who let the Saints bulldoze them to the tune of 208 rushing yards.
Brown said no one was surprised because Dawkins said much the same thing in the locker room at the Superdome, just after the Birds' playoff quest fizzled. Tuesday night, Dawkins was just reminding them, nearly 7 months later, of their need to redeem themselves.
"After the game he was disturbed and disappointed we couldn't get off the field," Brown said after the Eagles' revamped D dominated the first day of full-squad training camp practice with pads, swarming to the ball with gusto. "We already knew what to expect when he arrived. He would have given the speech earlier, if he had been here during [minicamps].
Dawkins missed the minicamps, attending to his wife and their premature twins. But he is back now, and so it seems, is the defense, with a little more depth and swagger than when we last saw it.
"It was a strong message. It was an amazing situation, because he stood up and had the respect of everyone. Everyone's eyes were turned on him. It's just a great feeling knowing you're on the field with a guy like that. I'm looking forward to the season," said slimmed-down second-year defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley.
Last season, Bunkley was the first-round rookie who showed up late and out of shape, the guy the coaching staff thought would help plug the middle but didn't. Bunkley said yesterday he is down to 290, about 30 pounds lighter than a year ago. He begins this camp as a starter, lining up alongside Mike Patterson.
"He's ready - I believe he's ready. You have to wait and see," Dawkins said yesterday, when asked about Bunkley. "I'm not going to lift him up [as] 'Pro Bowl Man,' but I think he understands what we expect of him, what is expected of him in that position he's in, how much we need him to be what we thought he would be."
Dawkins acknowledged he had talked to Bunkley individually.
"I talked to him. I didn't get on him, but talked to him. He was going through a tough rookie year, and I know he's happy to have that behind him. You can just look at his face and see how much more confident he is, in the scheme, reading his blocks, and what he has to do up front. I think he's a lot more confident and comfortable in doing that this year."
As for his address to the entire unit, Dawkins didn't want to share specifics. Asked why the defense needed to be challenged, he said: "I don't know if we needed it, but I felt like it was something I wanted to say."
After finishing 26th against the run last season, the Eagles' defense knows it will face about as many questions about that this training camp as Donovan McNabb will face about his knee. (In fact, those are the two biggest variables right now - if you could guarantee that McNabb will be healthy and that the defense will be significantly better, you could pretty much guarantee a decent playoff run, if not a Super Bowl appearance.)
It's early yet, but nobody on the defense seems to resent the questions.
"If people rush for 200 yards, that's going to be a question we're going to have to answer," Brown said.
Brown isn't claiming great improvement for the unit yet, by the way. As excited as he is to see new linebacker Takeo Spikes and new defensive tackles Montae Reagor and Ian Scott, along with might-as-well-be-new linebacker Chris Gocong, who missed his rookie season with a neck injury, Brown noted that "it's a hard defensive scheme to learn. If you're out there thinking, you can't let your physical ability take over. Hopefully, you can catch it all here mentally, and when you get in a game, you can just fly around."
Spikes didn't seem to be too confused yesterday; he looked fast and aggressive.
"I haven't felt this good in 2 years," said Spikes, who suffered an Achilles' tear in September 2005. "It just takes time. Now, I'm officially back. I felt good - my steps feel solid, explosive. I felt strong, didn't get fatigued at all."
Spikes said Johnson's defense is similar to the one he played in Buffalo before the 2006 season, when the Bills went to Cover 2. "I love [the Eagles' scheme]. This is a good fit; you're being proactive, instead of reactive," Spikes said.
Equally positive was defensive end Jevon Kearse, whose 2006 season ended in September because of a knee injury. Kearse said Spikes approached him and Patterson on the sideline, just to tell them how much he appreciated the chance to play with them. Kearse said he understood how Spikes felt.
"Playing with a lot of 'dawgs' out there on the field, you don't feel like you've got to put everything on your shoulders," Kearse said. "You're able to play free and to have fun out there, instead of thinking, 'If I mess up, no one else is going to stop 'em.' That's not the situation on our team."
Kearse is often perceived as a disappointment because his 18 1/2 sacks in 31 Eagles games over three seasons, since signing an 8-year, $66 million contract, are not superstar-level. And he certainly isn't a run-stuffer. But Dawkins said Kearse's presence is important, just the same.
"There are certain blocking schemes you can't use against the Eagles when Jevon is in the game," Dawkins said. "That's just being honest. You can't slide away from him. You have to have someone to make sure they know where he is at all times."
Dawkins was asked why he thought this team, which was pretty talented even after Kearse went down in Week 2, couldn't stop the run last season.
"I don't know," he said. "I know we had a lot of guys hurt last year . . . That still doesn't take away the fact that we gave up too many yards in certain games, and not being able to get off the field. We can't do that as a defense. You can't be a top-ranked defense and not be able to get off the field sometimes.
"I think with healthy guys, the new additions we have on the defensive side of the ball, and the maturity of 'Bunk,' that it's going to be a better year. I'm not going to make any predictions or stuff, but it's going to be a better year." *
I'd fully support and donate money towards a Dawkins statue outside the linc.
QuoteLast season, Bunkley was the first-round rookie who showed up late and out of shape, the guy the coaching staff thought would help plug the middle but didn't. Bunkley said yesterday he is down to 290, about 30 pounds lighter than a year ago. He begins this camp as a starter, lining up alongside Mike Patterson.
Wow.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 02, 2007, 07:51:26 AM
QuoteLast season, Bunkley was the first-round rookie who showed up late and out of shape, the guy the coaching staff thought would help plug the middle but didn't. Bunkley said yesterday he is down to 290, about 30 pounds lighter than a year ago. He begins this camp as a starter, lining up alongside Mike Patterson.
Wow.
fixed
there is no chance bunkley was ever close to 320 last year
I second SD, Dawkins gets better every year.
can we clone dawkins?
Question 11. How fast does brain freeze set in after a 7-on-7 drill
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1/rescuedlife/19123.jpg)