Well, somehow my three year old convinced my wife to say yes about getting a puppy. She had a couple of conditions, but the deposit is in, and in a couple of weeks, we'll have the pup. Normally, I'd get a dog from the pound (like I did when I was a kid), but there were some allergy issues so I'm going to pony up for an American Hairless Terrier, which is weird enough to be sort of cool.
At any rate, the pup will be 9 weeks old when I pick her up. I've never raised a pup before, but I think I've been talked into crate training. Any key tips from CF-ers with dogs about training a young pup, in general?
Teach the dog to eat its own eye boogers.
Quote from: FastFreddie on May 15, 2007, 02:42:10 PM
Teach the dog to eat its own eye boogers.
And in return, have the dog teach you how to lick your own balls. Then get rid of the wife.
Well, thankfully, the AHTs aren't prone to eye boogers. That said, I'm sure they are a tasty treat...and I plan on saving any available for myself.
I have a 1 year old mutt (irish wolfhound, golden retreiver mix we beleive...along with something else that has kept her size down).
Crate training is the way we went. Went pretty well, we adopted her at about 3 months old.
Just don't use the crate as a punishment spot. You want the dog to know that the crate is a place of comfort to them.
i thought this was gonna be a little red rocket thread
The one time I tried to use a crate to train a dog was an absolute disaster. An ex girlfriend from maybe 5 or 6 years ago got a puppy and a crate for it. Maybe it's just because I had no clue how to properly crate train a dog since every dog I ever had, we house broke the old fashioned way. Anywho, one thing I learned from trying to crate train this mutt is that who ever said that dogs won't piss or crap where they sleep is full of shtein. It seemed like any time we went out for more than a couple of hours that the dog would mess all inside her kennel. That dog was an icehole.
I'll probably stick to the old fashioned way which is taking them outside every few hours so they can do their business and give them a treat. And when they go in the house, just rub their nose in it, give 'em a little kick in the ass and then take it outside.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 15, 2007, 02:57:12 PM
The one time I tried to use a crate to train a dog was an absolute disaster. An ex girlfriend from maybe 5 or 6 years ago got a puppy and a crate for it. Maybe it's just because I had no clue how to properly crate train a dog since every dog I ever had, we house broke the old fashioned way. Anywho, one thing I learned from trying to crate train this mutt is that who ever said that dogs won't piss or crap where they sleep is full of shtein. It seemed like any time we went out for more than a couple of hours that the dog would mess all inside her kennel. That dog was an icehole.
I'll probably stick to the old fashioned way which is taking them outside every few hours so they can do their business and give them a treat. And when they go in the house, just rub their nose in it, give 'em a little kick in the ass and then take it outside.
Ditto. Coincidently, that's how I housebroke all my kids.
I'd pick up Puppies for Dummies There's actually a lot of good tips in there. The crate works great, use bitter apple and you may have to get different brands. Some actually taste good to dogs. We taught my pup that vegetables were good, and he eats them for snacks along with icecubes. When dealing with pups, its not how loud you yell, but just how it comes out. Dogs know when your angry just by your eyes.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 15, 2007, 02:57:12 PM
The one time I tried to use a crate to train a dog was an absolute disaster. An ex girlfriend from maybe 5 or 6 years ago got a puppy and a crate for it. Maybe it's just because I had no clue how to properly crate train a dog since every dog I ever had, we house broke the old fashioned way. Anywho, one thing I learned from trying to crate train this mutt is that who ever said that dogs won't piss or crap where they sleep is full of shtein. It seemed like any time we went out for more than a couple of hours that the dog would mess all inside her kennel. That dog was an icehole.
the crate was probably too big.
we had very few accidents with crate training. People mistake crate trainig for less work than traditional house breaking.
With tradional housebreaking, you do nothing but teach the dog where not to go. But you never really teach it where to go.
With Crate training, you're teaching the dog the opposite, where it's okay for them to go. We have it to the point now that we can take the dog pretty much anywhere, all day, and she wont go on someone else's property, she'll wait until she gets home, and goes in the back yard.
I have a Great Dane/Black Lab/Shetland Pony mix.
The only tip I can give you is make sure that it knows who's boss. Establishing dominance with your dog should be priority number one, especially since you have children. You are the boss, your wife is the boss and your child is the boss. The dog needs to understand that all of you are higher up the food chain. This means that it shouldn't jump up on you and stare you in the eyes, it should give you 'right of way' when you are walking by, it should move easy when you attempt to move it off the couch/bed/whatever and not bark or snap at you.
You can do this in a number of ways. The easiest is to make sure that everyone in the family feeds the dog, which helps establish that you are all responsible for providing it food. Reward it for good behavior and show displeasure for bad behavior, but only if you catch the dog in the act. If you yell at it an hour later, it won't know what the farg you're yelling at it about. Dog's crave your attention so if your dog is being a real pain in the ass, just ignore it. Don't put it in its crate to punish it (a big mistake that I made).
Kick your dog. A lot.
I'm done being helpful.
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2007, 03:13:36 PM
With tradional housebreaking, you do nothing but teach the dog where not to go. But you never really teach it where to go.
With Crate training, you're teaching the dog the opposite, where it's okay for them to go. We have it to the point now that we can take the dog pretty much anywhere, all day, and she wont go on someone else's property, she'll wait until she gets home, and goes in the back yard.
I don't know about all that as far as traditional housebreaking is teaching a dog where not to go. Like I said, when my dog was a pup I would take him outside every few hours. I did that to try and make sure he didn't "have" to go when in the house. At the time I was living in a small apt complex so I didn't really have much choice but to take him to the same spot every time. And when he was a pup and messed in the house, a lot of times I blamed myself for it because it usually meant that I had kept him inside too long. But I still beat him anyway because it's fun.
Regularity is the importance with house training a dog the traditional way imo. Take the little bastich outside every few hours during the day and maybe an hour or so after it eats or drinks. When he does his business, give him a treat or atleast give him some verbal reassurance that he did the right thing.
And rjs is right on about establishing dominance, especially if the dog is a male. You are the alpha male and he/she must understand that. When my dog was a pup I would actually growl and bark at him if he'd approach me while I was eating. It seems to have worked because now I can leave a big, juicy steak sitting on my coffee table comepletely unattended and he won't go near it. When food touches the floor, it's free game for him. Other then that, he won't touch it.
Sounds like you're getting a small dog, but even still, exercise is an important part of the process. A dog all amped up with energy won't respond nearly as well as one who has had it's ass run off. I have a bigger breed, and she would be totally unattentive, like a kid with ADHD, if I hadn't exercised her. I used to run her in the back yard, playing catch, or go for a run with her. Similar to what RJS said, dominance is key. Just like kids, if the dog thinks it can pull your punk card, it will - often. The walking/riding/running thing can also reinforce this as well. Make sure when you take the dog for a walk or run, you lead always.
And if all else fails.....rolled up newspaper. Like farging cryptonite.
We used crate training and never had a problem with that. Once the Dog gets older there wasn't any need for the crate at all.
Biggest reason for the Crate that I remember is even after they're trained to do their business outside the chewing lasts till the dog is just about two. We could keep an eye on this when we're home and Crate them while we were out and not worry about half the house being chewed up. Learned this the hard way and lost some couch cushions in the mean time. Now the dogs have outgrown that and it's not a problem.
a lot of times I blamed myself for it because it usually meant that I had kept him inside too long. But I still beat him anyway because it's fun.
lol
Crate training is a VERY good idea, but read up on how to do it effectively before hand. I didn't really know what I was doing and although the end results have been okay, there were some problems that I encountered because I didn't know what the hell I was doing.
PPinDC's growling and barking while eating idea is a good one. Dominance. Key.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2007, 03:59:56 PM
PPinDC's growling and barking while eating idea is a good one. Dominance. Key.
All of Sarge's posts are belong to me!
Good tip on the eye boogers. That one has worked well for me (for my dog, that is).
The crate worked well for us, too. But then one cold winter night we got the bright idea to let the dog sleep on our bed. Needless to say, he's never spent the night in that crate again.
Quote from: PPinDC on May 15, 2007, 04:02:19 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2007, 03:59:56 PM
PPinDC's growling and barking while eating idea is a good one. Dominance. Key.
All of Sarge's posts are belong to me!
I'm gay.
I haven't read everything people wrote because I've stopped reading most of you idiots. Here goes.
On Crates
Crate training is the best way. The crate needs to be the right size..this is important. If the dog can curl up in a corner or a side of the crate, it will crap in one corner and sleep in the other. Not what you want. Go for one you think is just a bit small if you're worried. Put the crate near the door to the outside. I presume you have a yard? Put the crate near the door to the yard. This way when you get home, you open the door to the yard, then you open the crate and usher her outside. Once she's out there doing her thing, praise her. If you can do it, put the crate under a table so it's like a cave under a roof..the dog will feel safe there. It is just that really, a cave. Not a place for when they are being punished. Leave it open when the pup isn't in it so it can go in if it wants.
On the Pack.
You are the Alpha. Your wife is Beta. The child is Gamma. The dog is Omega. This needs to be established and reinforced throughout life, as it's only the dogs nature to continually check who's who. Some ways that I use to establish who's the boss: When the dog misbehaves badly AND I catch him IN THE ACT, I more or less grab the farger, roll him on his back and pin him down by the scruff of his neck, growling at him and saying No. Never hit a dog..doesn't work at all...confused them and makes them fear you. Fear is not what you want, what you want is respect. Don't leave food down for the dog. Not least because it's unsanitary and encourages poor eating habits, but moreso because the daily feeding of the dog by your own hand is a constant reminder that food comes from you, rather than from "it's always there."
On grooming.
Start on the nails young and do it regularly. Be extremely careful not to clip to close. In fact, just clip the very very tip once a week to get the thing accustomed to the routine. You don't want to have a dog that's freaked out by toenail clippers. Brush often. It really, really helps.
On messes
Messing in the house is your fault, not the puppie's fault. If you catch it in the act, then scold but not too angrily. You need to be perceptive to the puppy's needs. everytime it comes out of the crate, take it out. Every time it wakes up from a nap, outside. And I mean right away. Take it out right after a romping play session. Same again: right away. When it has an accident, think about when the last time it was out, about what it was doing RIGHT before the accident, etc. They signal even before they know they are signaling, and if you pay attention to them you can speed the communication training.
On walks
Use a choke. Put it all the way up under the dogs chin, not at the base of the neck on the shoulders. Dogs have muscles down there and it's nothing for them to lean into the chain if it's down there. If it's up under the chin however, they can't argue. You've got their head and they won't struggle. If you're walking the dog on your left side, as I do, you want to make the choke collar in the shape of a P, and if on the right side, in the shape of a backwards P. This allows the chain to slide easily/with gravity. If you don't know what I mean, try it both ways and you'll see. When it's done right, the chain will automatically slack when you back off a bit. Always walk the dog on the same side (the left), using the dog side hand to hold the lease and regulate how much lead you give, while the off dog hand is holding the other end of the leash. yes, it's a two handed job. The left hand keeps the chain in the right position and manages lead distance while the right hand has the anchor. Keep the dog at your side...NOT ahead of you. The Alpha wolf walks in front, so do you.
On jumping up.
Knock 'em down when he does it (without hitting) and turn away from him. Give as little attentoin to the dog as possible when you first come in to discourage jumping and peeing. Literally, pretend it's not there. Once he's chilled out, give him some love.
On naming
Two syllables. Make it something you can call outloud easily.
On food.
Like I said, put it down for a time and let the dog eat. If it leaves the food after an hour or so, pick it up and no more until next feeding. Feed morning and dinner time. Never ever give treats from the dinner table, or wherever you eat. Never. Seriously, take this seriously. It's farging Pandora's box. My dog stays away from me when I eat....because she's never gotten anything and I get gruff when she comes near. After dinner, she might get scraps...in her bowl, or possibly a plate to lick on the floor next to her bowl. Treats are great for training and also to give once in a while for no particular reason, but don't go overboard.
On chewing.
there is very little you can do here. Have toys, stuffed animals they can have, etc. Make sure they get plenty of outdoor time to tire them out.
On socializaiton.
If you have a cat, that really helps. Get the dog out as much as possible with other dogs and people. It's as much for you as for her because the last thing you need is a dog that can't be around other dogs because it's super aggressive, or super passive, etc.
that's enough from me. I'm dying to get a second dog now that I've moved, but I figure the landlord should get rent checks on time for six months or so before I spring the idea on her. That means probably not until late fall. :(
If he shteins on the floor....show him who's boss by shteinting in his crate.
We just got done crate training our puppy, and it went ok. One thing is that you pretty much have to keep and eye on the dog all the time when it is outside of the crate. At first, it seamed like our dog would mess in the house whenever we turned our back on her. We could never catch her in the act. She is completely house trained now. It took about 2-3 months. She is an American Eskimo and I read that they act like puppies longer than most other dogs.
Tips on crate size, like some already said, if the crate is too big, they will sleep in one corner, and mess in the other. To keep from buyin more than one crate, get one big enough to hold the dog when it is full grown. Use a box or something else to divide it up so that the dog only has enough room to lay down comfortably in. Do a google search on crate training, and you should find some good tips.
Quote from: Diomedes on May 15, 2007, 06:21:52 PM
On naming
Two syllables. Make it something you can call outloud easily.
That explains alot. I named my dog Humpernickle Shickadance and he never responded to me when he was younger. I always thought the little farger was just ignoring me so I kept beating his ass. Oops.
Crating is the best method for dogs, I've raised 5 in my lifetime and its never failed me.
Terriers are known for having seperation anxiety. When you or any member of your family leaves the house, don't pay the dog any attention. When you enter the house, ignore the dog for 5-10 minutes. Do this early and it will help relieve some of this.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2007, 06:41:44 PM
Crating is the best method for dogs, I've raised 5 in my lifetime and its never failed me.
Terriers are known for having seperation anxiety. When you or any member of your family leaves the house, don't pay the dog any attention. When you enter the house, ignore the dog for 5-10 minutes. Do this early and it will help relieve some of this.
Another thing that works well for Separation Anxiety is D.A.P. (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=13043&N=2001+113757)
and if your dog is a pain going to the bathroom use Pee Post (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=11109&N=2001+113510)
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 15, 2007, 06:36:50 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on May 15, 2007, 06:21:52 PM
On naming
Two syllables. Make it something you can call outloud easily.
That explains alot. I named my dog Humpernickle Shickadance and he never responded to me when he was younger. I always thought the little farger was just ignoring me so I kept beating his ass. Oops.
I'm glad I didn't go with my first choice: Infantfarger.
Good points, Dio. I don't completely do the food thing, but it hasn't been a problem.
Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on May 15, 2007, 08:19:20 PMI don't completely do the food thing, but it hasn't been a problem.
You mean you just leave food down, or you feed the pooch from table? Or both?
I should also say that I continue to learn as this goes along. I sound like a helicopoter parent, I know...but living with a dog teaches you shtein. It's one reason life is worth living.
There aren't that many reasons, incidentally.
I leave the food down. He sometimes eats it all, especially if there are scraps involved. Sometimes he saves some for later in the evening. Either way, though, I make it a habit to feed him after I (and the family) eat. Gotta establish the pattern of dominance.
Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on May 15, 2007, 09:37:12 PM...I make it a habit to feed him after I (and the family) eat.
I do that too but on principle only, because I've noticed that with this dog it doesn't matter; even if I do put it down before I eat, she won't even look at it until after I've finished eating.
She's holding out for the possiblity of the plate.
You get to know them after a while. This one is 8 1/2 years, and I've raised her from a pup.
Good tips. Thanks. The size thing came up a few times-- this dog will be between 16-20 pounds or so, and bald.
farging rat dog.
Quote from: Zanshin on May 16, 2007, 09:07:22 AM
between 16-20 pounds or so, and bald.
Zanshin likes em' the same as Michael Jackson
lol...so true. Weird enough to be okay for me. I'd usually be a bigger dog guy, but there are some allergy issues at home that make it this or nothing. They're not bad looking though. Mine will be a grey/black, but here's one:
(http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images17/AmericanHairlessTerrierHorizonAHTs.JPG)
That's a farging weird looking dog. I almost like it.
Quote from: Zanshin on May 16, 2007, 09:30:14 AM
lol...so true. Weird enough to be okay for me. I'd usually be a bigger dog guy, but there are some allergy issues at home that make it this or nothing. They're not bad looking though. Mine will be a grey/black, but here's one:
Actually, a lot of mutts are hypo alergenic to begin with. My wife sneezes when she thinks about dogs. But with ours now...not even a sniffle. And our dog has about 15 pounds of fur.
These dogs are great, though...no dander, no allergies, no shedding, smart, friendly...weird as they are, there's a tremendous amount to like.
So how much does a little rodent like that set ya back, Z? .....if you don't mind my asking.
Quote from: Diomedes on May 15, 2007, 06:21:52 PM
When the dog misbehaves badly AND I catch him IN THE ACT, I more or less grab the farger, roll him on his back and pin him down by the scruff of his neck, growling at him and saying No. Never hit a dog..doesn't work at all...confused them and makes them fear you. Fear is not what you want, what you want is respect.
I did that the other day. If any of you remember my posts about this puppy, he's been a lot better. The other day I came home and he was tearing up the garbage (much better tearing up garbage then the farging leather couch) but then I jumped at him and flipped him over and got him in a headlock. Looking back it's absolutely hilarious, but it worked.
I wish i had growled at my dog when eating. He plays a game almost every night with me. Its just the old lady and myself so we eat watching Tivo'ed shows. Our table is semi low, and having a good sized retreiver i dont blame him for wanting people food. He plays the game of trying to sniff the food, and when i yell at him to get away he sniff's my breath and licks his lips. Everytime i grab the apple spray and he runs away. Its annoying as hell because its the same thing every night but i have noone to blame except my self but moreso my wife :)
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 16, 2007, 12:34:38 PM
So how much does a little rodent like that set ya back, Z? .....if you don't mind my asking.
More than I'd want. $650....which isn't bad by breeder standards.
Quote from: Zanshin on May 16, 2007, 02:00:50 PMMore than I'd want. $650....which isn't bad by breeder standards.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper if you would have just stolen the dog?
I suppose.
Quote from: Zanshin on May 16, 2007, 02:00:50 PM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 16, 2007, 12:34:38 PM
So how much does a little rodent like that set ya back, Z? .....if you don't mind my asking.
More than I'd want. $650....which isn't bad by breeder standards.
Right on. I was guessing somewhere in the ballpark of 500-750. The fact that it won't shed almost makes it worth it. ;)
Quote from: hbionic on May 16, 2007, 02:08:15 PM
Quote from: Zanshin on May 16, 2007, 02:00:50 PMMore than I'd want. $650....which isn't bad by breeder standards.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper if you would have just stolen the dog?
Chuggie, how many times do I have to tell you that's not the way we do things in America. This country was founded by hard work and determination, not by taking something that doesn't belong to you.
Quote from: Dillen on May 16, 2007, 12:44:15 PM
If any of you remember my posts about this puppy, blah blah blah...
He brought in a dead mouse like an hour ago. Dogs ridiculous.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 16, 2007, 07:58:52 PM
Quote from: hbionic on May 16, 2007, 02:08:15 PM
Quote from: Zanshin on May 16, 2007, 02:00:50 PMMore than I'd want. $650....which isn't bad by breeder standards.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper if you would have just stolen the dog?
Chuggie, how many times do I have to tell you that's not the way we do things in America. This country was founded by hard work and determination, not by taking something that doesn't belong to you.
With that kind of backward thinking, there would have never been an Oklahoma Land Rush.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Oklahoma_Land_Rush.jpg)
stupid Okies
You guys have opinions about dog insurance? I've heard things both ways from people I know.
You mean like pet health insurance?
If you get pet insurance I will lose all respect for you and everyone you know.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 08:20:02 AM
If you get pet insurance I will lose all respect for you and everyone you know.
He "knows" you.
Okay, here's a better question. How much do you spend a year on vet visits, etc? Is it cringeworthy?
But I already don't respect myself so I'm in the clear. SUCKER.
Vet bills can be intimidating if you have a sickly zesty dog. Which is why you should get a mutt. They're healthier.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 08:35:25 AM
Vet bills can be intimidating if you have a sickly zesty dog. Which is why you should get a mutt. They're healthier.
RJS is on point about mutts. I have a pure bred golden retriever. His bills ran about 600 bucks last year. He got sick from swimming in a pond that had goose crap and that rans us 145 bucks for medicine
The biggest expense we had to bear (so far) was neutering. Other than that, the annual vet check-up is maybe $100 (I think...the wife pays that one).
If he were to develop something that requires surgery or something very expensive, it would definitely be a tough decision. He's part of the family and all, but sensibility must prevail.
Get a rescue dog and they pay for all of the dog's first few rounds of shots and the neutering. Pure breeds can suck it.
Like I said, we have a mutt which we rescued. The vet bills since we brought her home have been about $100 in 10 months, and that was all routine stuff. And that included the heartgard medicine.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 08:34:28 AM
But I already don't respect myself so I'm in the clear. SUCKER.
True talk. I don't know if it's actual fact or not, but pure breeds always seem to have more medical issues than mixed breeds/mutts and thus, shorter life spans as well. My dog's predominately golden retriever but is definitely mixed with something (don't know what) because he doesn't have the long, wavey hair. He's 11 yrs old and is just now really (within the last year) starting to show effects of aging, mostly with arthritis in his hind legs. And I think I've only taken him to the vet twice to be seen for something other than normal checkups and shots. I'd say I've probably spent no more than an average of $100 a year on him in vet bills.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 17, 2007, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 08:34:28 AM
But I already don't respect myself so I'm in the clear. SUCKER.
True talk. I don't know if it's actual fact or not, but pure breeds always seem to have more medical issues than mixed breeds/mutts and thus, shorter life spans as well. My dog's predominately golden retriever but is definitely mixed with something (don't know what) because he doesn't have the long, wavey hair. He's 11 yrs old and is just now really (within the last year) starting to show effects of aging, mostly with arthritis in his hind legs. And I think I've only taken him to the vet twice to be seen for something other than normal checkups and shots. I'd say I've probably spent no more than an average of $100 a year on him in vet bills.
Sarge, is he on Glucosomine? My parents Retriever is 8, when he turned 6 he was walking like an old man. They started him on Glucomax or somthing they got from the Vet. Within 2 weeks he was running and standing up from laying on the floor like a 1 year old pup. Its kind of costly, but it really helps the dog and you from worrying about it.
Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on May 17, 2007, 11:50:52 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 17, 2007, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 08:34:28 AM
But I already don't respect myself so I'm in the clear. SUCKER.
True talk. I don't know if it's actual fact or not, but pure breeds always seem to have more medical issues than mixed breeds/mutts and thus, shorter life spans as well. My dog's predominately golden retriever but is definitely mixed with something (don't know what) because he doesn't have the long, wavey hair. He's 11 yrs old and is just now really (within the last year) starting to show effects of aging, mostly with arthritis in his hind legs. And I think I've only taken him to the vet twice to be seen for something other than normal checkups and shots. I'd say I've probably spent no more than an average of $100 a year on him in vet bills.
Sarge, is he on Glucosomine? My parents Retriever is 8, when he turned 6 he was walking like an old man. They started him on Glucomax or somthing they got from the Vet. Within 2 weeks he was running and standing up from laying on the floor like a 1 year old pup. Its kind of costly, but it really helps the dog and you from worrying about it.
I don't have him on any actual meds yet. But the vet did prescribe him some medicated dog food and I do believe that Glucosomine is the active med in it. Before I got him on that food he was still walking and running around just fine. It was getting up off the floor, climbing stairs and jumping that was really having problems with. The food he's on is working wonderfully though and I've been feeding it to him for probably about 6 months now. It's expensive as anything though.......like $60 for a 40lb bag but I've been able to stretch my dollar with it by giving him half a bowl of the medicated food and half a bowl of his regular dog chow. The vet said that was fine and that I just need to pay attention and make sure that he's still moving ok and if he starts slowing down to just increase the amount of the medicated food I'm giving him.
I've looked into pet medical insurance and found that I'll do a lot better for myself if I just put the same amound of money into a jar/bank each month.
I thought the same thing until my dog had to have back surgery last month.
Quote from: Diomedes on May 17, 2007, 05:06:45 PM
I've looked into pet medical insurance and found that I'll do a lot better for myself if I just put the same amound of money into a jar/bank each month.
That's pretty much what I do. I have $20/month budgeted to stay in my savings account for the mutt.
Quote from: FastFreddie on May 17, 2007, 05:51:27 PM
I thought the same thing until my dog had to have back surgery last month.
Um, that's when the dog goes bye bye. Back surgery? Not a farging chance.
I felt the same way, but I was overruled. Whatever. Moral of the story: Don't buy a dachshund.
I hope she paid for it. In anal.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 07:36:13 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on May 17, 2007, 05:51:27 PM
I thought the same thing until my dog had to have back surgery last month.
Um, that's when the dog goes bye bye. Back surgery? Not a farging chance.
For me, it would depend on what the surgery is actually for and how well it would fix the problem. If it would significantly imporve my dog's health, mobility and lifespan then I'd probably pay the money for it. But if it's something that wouldn't do much for him in the long run then probably not.
Quote from: FastFreddie on May 17, 2007, 07:46:59 PM
I felt the same way, but I was overruled. Whatever. Moral of the story: Don't buy a dachshund.
dachshunds are one of the only types of small breeds that I actually like. Cocker Spaniels and Yorkies are pretty cool too.
The one cool thing about small dogs is that they do tend to live longer and healthier lives than the big breeds.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 17, 2007, 07:56:30 PM
For me, it would depend on what the surgery is actually for and how well it would fix the problem. If it would significantly imporve my dog's health, mobility and lifespan then I'd probably pay the money for it. But if it's something that wouldn't do much for him in the long run then probably not.
I had to put one of my dogs down in November. One of the options was to amputate the leg that had been totally ruined by cancer (which isnt really all that bad, considering he practically lived on 3 legs for the year or two before that) but then go through chemo and all that shtein too. All that for a half year more? farg that. He wouldnt even have a good quality of life at that point with all the chemo, it would be absolutely pointless.
FWIW WPVI in philly(i dont think anyone in this thread lives in philly) is having a special about dogs and the high rate of cancer they are experiencing. My first Golden had to be put down because of Lymphoma, so i have my parents recording it for us.
It might be my upbringing in the rural farmlands of northern Chester County, but there is no way I'd put that kind of money on an animal.
Heck, my grandfather didn't even pay to have the vet put down his dog when I was a kid. He took care of it himself.
(http://www.wargameclub.com/gun-folder/images/m37shotgun.jpg)
When I was a kid we let my sister's cat die of natural causes. Of course the natural cause was a big purple tumor on its side that was literally 1/4 of the size of the cat. farging thing never seemed to mind until it had a seizure and died.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on May 17, 2007, 08:18:00 PM
It might be my upbringing in the rural farmlands of northern Chester County, but there is no way I'd put that kind of money on an animal.
Heck, my grandfather didn't even pay to have the vet put down his dog when I was a kid. He took care of it himself.
(http://www.wargameclub.com/gun-folder/images/m37shotgun.jpg)
The problem then is cleaning up.
Crows.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 17, 2007, 07:58:11 PM
Quote from: FastFreddie on May 17, 2007, 07:46:59 PM
I felt the same way, but I was overruled. Whatever. Moral of the story: Don't buy a dachshund.
dachshunds are one of the only types of small breeds that I actually like. Cocker Spaniels and Yorkies are pretty cool too.
The one cool thing about small dogs is that they do tend to live longer and healthier lives than the big breeds.
Well, my dachshund is about as big as they come (26+ lbs and not overweight). His line tends to live very long, and he's been healthy until the ruptured disk. He's also only 5 years old. If he were 10+, I might have felt more strongly about not allowing the surgery.
BTW, he went from being 100% to completely not using his back legs within a week, so I'd say the surgery (which is allowing him to begin to walk again) fixed the problem and was generally worth it.
You would shoot a dog with a shotgun inside?
Doesn't everyone?
Only if it pissed on the couch.
Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on May 17, 2007, 08:44:13 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on May 17, 2007, 08:18:00 PM
It might be my upbringing in the rural farmlands of northern Chester County, but there is no way I'd put that kind of money on an animal.
Heck, my grandfather didn't even pay to have the vet put down his dog when I was a kid. He took care of it himself.
(http://www.wargameclub.com/gun-folder/images/m37shotgun.jpg)
The problem then is cleaning up.
Not out in the woods.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 17, 2007, 08:44:56 PM
Crows.
Pretty much.
Quote
MSNBC.com
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WP: What is your dog thinking?
Research provides more evidence of surprisingly complex abilities
By Rob Stein
The Washington Post
Updated: 11:24 p.m. ET June 3, 2007
Dog owners have long maintained that their pooches have a lot more going on between their furry ears than scientists acknowledge. Now, new research is adding to the growing evidence that man's best friend thinks a lot more than many humans have believed.
The provocative new experiment indicated that dogs can do something that previously only humans, including infants, have been shown capable of doing: decide how to imitate a behavior based on the specific circumstances in which the action takes place.
"The fact that the dogs imitate selectively, depending on the situation -- that has not been shown before," said Friederike Range of the University of Vienna, who led the study. "That's something completely new."
The findings come amid a flurry of research that is revealing surprisingly complex abilities among dogs, chimps, birds and many other animals long dismissed as having little intellectual or emotional life.
"Every day, we're discovering surprises about animals and finding out animals are far more intelligent and far more emotional than we previously thought," said Marc Bekoff, an animal behaviorist who recently retired from the University of Colorado. "We're really breaking down the lines between the species."
The study was inspired by research with human infants. Fourteen-month-olds will imitate an adult turning on a light with her forehead only if they see her doing it with her hands free. If the adult is clutching a blanket, infants will use their hands, presumably because they can reason that the adult resorted to using her forehead because she had no choice.
To determine whether an animal could respond similarly, Range and her colleagues trained Guinness, a female border collie, to push a wooden rod with her paw to get a treat. A dog generally does not use its paws to do tasks, preferring to use its mouth whenever possible. So the key question was whether dogs that watched Guinness would decide how to get the treat depending on the circumstances.
After making sure the owners could not influence their pets' behavior, researchers tested three groups of dogs. The first 14, representing a variety of breeds, did not watch Guinness. When taught how to use the rod, about 85 percent pushed it with their mouth, confirming that is how dogs naturally like to do things.
The second group of 21 dogs watched Guinness repeatedly push the rod with her paw while holding a ball in her mouth. In that group, most of the dogs -- about 80 percent -- used their mouth, imitating the action but not the exact method Guinness had used. That suggested the dogs -- like the children -- decided Guinness was only using her paw because she had no choice.
'More sophisticated'
The third group of 19 dogs watched Guinness repeatedly use a paw on the rod with her mouth free. Most of those dogs -- 83 percent -- imitated her behavior exactly, using their paws and not their mouth. That suggested they concluded there must be some good reason to act against their instincts and do it like Guinness.
"The behavior was very similar to the children who were tested in the original experiment," said Zsofia Viranyi of Eotvos University in Budapest, who helped conduct the experiment, published in the May 15 issue of the journal Current Biology. "Whether they imitate or not depends on the context. It's not automatic, insightless copying. It's more sophisticated. There's a kind of inferential process going on. "
Viranyi and her colleagues said more research is needed to confirm the results and to explore what the findings say about the canine brain.
"Do they use the same cognitive process as the infant? Or is it something different?" Range said. "We have no way of knowing that right now."
The findings stunned many researchers.
"What's surprising and shocking about this is that we thought this sort of imitation was very sophisticated, something seen only in humans," said Brian Hare, who studies dogs at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany. "Once again, it ends up dogs are smarter than scientists thought."
Making inferences
The experiment suggests that dogs can put themselves inside the head of another dog -- and perhaps people -- to make relatively complex decisions.
"This suggests they can actually think about your intention -- they can look for explanations of your behavior and make inferences about what you are thinking," Hare said.
Others go even further, suggesting the findings indicate that dogs have a sense of awareness.
"It really shows a higher level of consciousness," said Stanley Coren at the University of British Columbia, who studies how dogs think. "This takes a real degree of consciousness."
Others were more skeptical, saying it's too far a leap to conclude from the study that dogs possess conscious awareness.
"It's so easy for the human mind to look at a dog doing something like this and force our human way of thinking about it on the dog," said Daniel J. Povinelli, a cognitive scientist at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette. "This ability might happen automatically without any conscious reflection on the dog's part."
The findings could simply be yet another example of the well-documented ability of dogs to interpret subtle physical cues that stem from their long, close relationship with humans, several researchers said.
"Dogs are really keen observers of the world around them," said Bruce Blumberg, who teaches classes on dog behavior at Harvard University. "They use simple but reliable rules that capture just enough of a problem to be able to just do better than guessing. This may just be another example of that."
Regardless of the interpretation, the research reflects a renewed interest in dogs.
"There's been an extraordinary explosion in research on dogs," said Stephen Zawistowski, an animal behaviorist at the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. "What we're seeing really for the first time is incredibly serious and important work on dog behavior and dog genetics. The really important work will be when the canine cognitive work meets the canine genome work. It's going to give us information about where these capabilities come from."
© 2007 The Washington Post Company
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19018411/
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