link (http://www.gcobb.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=399&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)
QuoteI had told you last week how Andy Reid and Jon Gruden are coaching brothers who learned the same offensive system, the West Coast offense under the same coach, their coaching father Mike Holmgren. Well Jon Gruden tricked his brother Andy because he knows the Eagles offense as well as Andy which includes their automatics when they recognize a blitz.
When the Eagles are in a formation with both receivers flanked out to the same side, they run a double slant when they read a blitz and Donovan hits the outside receiver on the slant route. Well, Jon Gruden knew that so he told his defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin and sure as day when they saw the Eagles come out in the formation with both of the receivers flanked out to the same side, they went to a blitz and had Ronde Barber sucker the Birds.
Well, sure as day Barber was lined up on the inside receiver and he took a couple of steps like he was going to go inside with that receiver then came back outside, in the path of the ball as it was headed to the outside receiver on his slant route. The ball hit him right in the hands and he caught it in stride and away he went for an easy TD.
I don't know what happened on the other interceptions but they were remarkably similar. The two other picks were 15 to 20 yard outs, that is not a coincident. I think Gruden saw something the Eagles were doing that was giving away those deep out routes and he told Monte Kiffin and his cornerbacks and they squatted on those routes and picked those two passes off. Normally when a receiver is running up field and he gets close to a defensive back, that DB has to turn and run with the receiver. Both of Tampa's corners squatted, that's unusual because they had to have known the route the Birds were running. Were those receivers going deep they would have been wide open because the corners didn't turn and run with them. The Eagles are tipping something off and Gruden picked it up.
Yes, McNabb threw the ball but it was the Eagles offensive coaches Andy Reid and Marty Mornhinweg, who were to blame. They didn't change any of their calls and automatics yet they knew there was a guy standing on the other sideline, Jon Gruden who knows their offense as well as they do. That's a lack of attention to detail and it's the reason that the city of Philadelphia is in mourning, today.
Gruden owned Reid again. Change it up a little Big Red. damnit.
this is what i tried to tell everyone on sunday...gruden owned reid...he knew he would be able to defend him and force turnovers thus he ran his offense accordingly...smash mouth no turnovers stay in the game and try to steal it at the end...textbook
and the reason he can do this is because andy will not adjust to save his life... doesnt matter the opponent...the style of game...the weaknesses or tendencies...down and distance ect....ect...
reid runs the same plays within the same game plan every single week
Good point by GCobb. I never really thought of the Reid/Gruden connection when looking at this game. I'm glad this story came out though because I had been defending Reid's game plan/play calling and that just wasn't sitting right with me. I'm glad I can go back to bashing him a little now.
If GCOBB is correct in his analysis, then that lets McNabb off the hook a lot. Obviously the pass to LJ before the half was a bonehead move by DMAC, but the INT's were Reid coaching blunders.
you need less GCOBB in your life and more IGY
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 24, 2006, 11:48:40 AM
you need less GCOBB in your life and more IGY
then how do you explain your response in the blame thread?
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 23, 2006, 03:35:58 PM
1. donovan mcnabb
2. donovan mcnabb
3. donovan mcnabb
4. the wr's
5. andy reid
What's Reid's record vs Gruden now? 1-4? (including Gruden with Oak). That said, I hope Gruden never coaches in the NFC East again......unless it's with the Eagles.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 22, 2006, 05:43:39 PM
the thing to do now is start a real ground swell to get andy reid fired...they cant waste another year of mcnabb at this age...they need to find a coach in the mold of a gruden...it amazing what can happen when you have an actually game plan like he did today...run the ball 1000 times...short quick passes to eat up the clock and let your defense keep you in it
meanwhile andy has no game plan...he takes the game play by play...whatever is next on his card gets run regardless of down distance or time...andy can draw up individual plays but has no idea how to implement them within a game...why is he throwing a deep out after one has already been taken to the house...and its greg lewis vs ronde barber one on one....yeah mcnabb cant throw it but if you dont want a qb throwing a bad route then dont have that route in the play...i mean greg lewis against ronde barber on a 12 yard out???...are you joking
ive said before and ill say it again...i want donovan in a pro set offense with a cadillac williams type runner behind him in an eye formartion with a fullback...mcnabb cannot carry a team by himself so why put him in a west coast throw 60 times a game offense...hes not that kind of qb...
this will not happen as long as andy reid is coach of this team...its the same ole same ole and it has to stop before they are in full rebuilding mode with jimmy clausen in 2010
read the whole thread....inf act you might as well merge this thread with mine
It's easy to be right when you blame everyone.
Quote from: MURP on October 24, 2006, 11:50:10 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 24, 2006, 11:48:40 AM
you need less GCOBB in your life and more IGY
then how do you explain your response in the blame thread?
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 23, 2006, 03:35:58 PM
1. donovan mcnabb
2. donovan mcnabb
3. donovan mcnabb
4. the wr's
5. andy reid
1. Donovan McNabb
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Andy Reid
4. Andy Reid
5. the wr's
1. Donovan McNabb
2. Donovan McNabb
3. Andy Reid
4. Andy Reid
5. the wr's
thats probably better than what i wrote
the tampa game by itself was more on mcnabb.....but there is an overall fundemental problem with the team and the offense that is ALL on reid
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 24, 2006, 11:54:51 AM
the tampa game by itself was more on mcnabb.....but there is an overall fundemental problem with the team and the offense that is ALL on reid
No, it really wasn't.
Doesn't matter how well Gruden knows Reid, McNabb can't make stupid throws like that, he's not a rookie, he's a seasoned vet. And if you want to point the finger at Reid for 1 INT then fine, but when McNabb makes the same stupid throw its all on him.
McNabb is not free of blame for Sunday's mistakes. He's faced Gruden as many times as Reid has in his career so he should be well aware of their tendencies on defense just as much as Gruden is aware of the Eagles tendencies on offense. Both of Barber's interceptions looked eeriliy similar to his pick in the NFCCG. So even though it's Andy's play call, McNabb still needs to recognize where specific players are on the field (ie: Barber). He also needs to recognize that on a deep out, the corner isn't turning to run downfield with the reciever but it sitting on that route. Instead of throwing it, hold the ball and scramble or take off running. If he gets sacked, he gets sacked. And yeah, we'll bitch about him getting sacked but I'd prefer to bitch about that than interceptions.
Also, the WR's need to do a better job reading the db's as well. I think it was Brown who was running that deep out that got picked by Boldin. He needs to see the DB not turning to run with him and fly right by him. Hopefully this is something that we'll see an improvement on as the young recievers gain some experience as well as build more chemistry with McNabb.
agree with with both sarge and sd
id like to add that whats really amazing to me about mcnabb on the deep out is the fact that you have tons of time to recognize on that play whether your man got open...its a long time consuming route...its not a quick slant like the first int...theres no excuse to throw that one
Heavy is the head that wears the crown. All three losses this year are on Reid. He's an awful game day coach. Simply awful.
Assuming the team doesn't get a horseshoe up their collective ass and win the Super Bowl, it's absolutely time for a change at head coach after this season. Not even a question.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on October 24, 2006, 12:12:29 PM
McNabb is not free of blame for Sunday's mistakes. He's faced Gruden as many times as Reid has in his career so he should be well aware of their tendencies on defense just as much as Gruden is aware of the Eagles tendencies on offense.
The important thing that you're forgetting is that Donovan is dumber than a sack of bricks. Expecting him to remember an opposing defense's tendencies is laughable.
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 24, 2006, 12:31:55 PM
Assuming the team doesn't get a horseshoe up their collective ass and win the Super Bowl, it's absolutely time for a change at head coach after this season. Not even a question.
It ain't gonna happen after this season unless the team remains completely healthy and manages to lose out. And even then, it's unlikely that Lurie will pull the plug on Reid.
Besides, who would be available that could come in and immediately make the Eagles a dominant SB contender? Cowher's about the only SB winning coach who doesn't have a contract going into next year I think. Well, Gibbs and Parcells will be available too but I definately don't want either of them.
First of all, I'm shocked GCobb made a good point. Second, Reid made the call, but McNabb threw the pass. Don has to read the coverage, and especially after the first mistake, not make it again. If Andy calls a zesty play, don't force it in there. Or audible. You can't not blame Donovan simply because the coach called a bad play. The guy is the franchise QB, been the league..what 7 seasons? He has to recognize the defense and limits his mistakes. He had a bad 2.5 quarters, it happens. But he's the biggest reason why they lost the game. Not Reid. Reid didn't throw the interceptions.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on October 24, 2006, 12:36:49 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 24, 2006, 12:31:55 PM
Assuming the team doesn't get a horseshoe up their collective ass and win the Super Bowl, it's absolutely time for a change at head coach after this season. Not even a question.
It ain't gonna happen after this season unless the team remains completely healthy and manages to lose out. And even then, it's unlikely that Lurie will pull the plug on Reid.
Besides, who would be available that could come in and immediately make the Eagles a dominant SB contender? Cowher's about the only SB winning coach who doesn't have a contract going into next year I think. Well, Gibbs and Parcells will be available too but I definately don't want either of them.
Many in Pitt wanted Cowher out until he won the SB. I know no one wants to hear patience, but we have the pieces. Let's hope Hood and Stallworth come out of the bye week strong and make a run like the Steelers last year.
It worked against the defense in practice...
Besides, who would be available that could come in and immediately make the Eagles a dominant SB contender?
this argument is so stale and besides the point...no one coach would be a cure all...players win championships not coaches...and these players right now...most specifically mcnabb need a new direction a new program a new philosophy
as ive said many times before...a pro set offense would do this team wonders...go out and get a big #1 wr (if possible)...a top notch fullback and run an offense similar to marty schottenheimers in sd with westbrook playing the role of tomlinson
they dont need a coach thats already won a superbowl...they need a competant game day coach who can play call at the right times adjust to the changes in game and opponent and clock manage properly...and most of all a coach/OC who have a system that better suits the team and is more conducive to winning a championship
a more forceful player accountable guy wouldnt hurt either...the players pay no mind to reid anymore or jim johnson for that matter
do you know that even now 48 hrs after the tampa game mcnabb still has not owned up to the end of half debacle...he still continues to say that he was just trying to make a play and that ronde barber did a good job there....part of this is on mcnabb but a bigger part is that mcnabb knows he is not held accountable by the head coach as they are way to buddy buddy...that closeness need to be loosened a bit
Yep.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 24, 2006, 12:47:32 PM
as ive said many times before...a pro set offense would do this team wonders...go out and get a big #1 wr (if possible)...a top notch fullback and run an offense similar to marty schottenheimers in sd with westbrook playing the role of tomlinson
You want the Eagles to play Martyball? Go to SD and ask the fans how much they like that offense. His playoff record is horrendus. And even if they did bring a guy in who liked to pound the ball the team is not set up to play as such, and it would take a couple of years to implement something like that. Unless we hit rock bottom you should expect to see Reid here till 2010.
The Eagles do not have the type of team to play Marty-ball. Westbrook is not Tomlinson. Not even close. I don't think there's any way Westy would be able to handle the same amount of touches that LT gets.
Also, I'm with SD in regards to Marty's postseason accomplishments. So far, his most recognizable pos season accomplishment is standing on the opposite sideline while John Elway orchestrated "The Drive." That wouldn't instill too much confidence in me when January rolls around.
You want the Eagles to play Martyball? Go to SD and ask the fans how much they like that offense. His playoff record is horrendus. And even if they did bring a guy in who liked to pound the ball the team is not set up to play as such, and it would take a couple of years to implement something like that.
yeah because i said that i wanted marty as the eagles head coach???
a couple years to implement a pro set offense?....you must be used to andy reid and his three year plan for rookie wr's...the offensive line is already there...a fullback can be gotten quite easily if tapeh isnt already capable...as for the skill positions theyve been overloaded with andys 600 page west coast playbook..they would more than welcome a stripped down pro style offense...an offense that mcnabb is much better suited for
and even if it did take a couple years so what...if thats what it takes for mcnabb and this team to win the superbowl then its worth the wait...its certainly a better option than the status quo and a chance they need to take...i dont want to be sitting around five years from now when mcnabb is done and wonder what if the team had given mcnabb a chance under a difference offense...reid has had eight years and hes done some good things no doubt...i cant hate on him for that even tho imo they won in spite of him not because of...but its clearly time for regime change while they still have a good amount of years left with what is one of the better qb's in the league and one that is certainly capable of winning a superbowl
FBs are dead. With the exception of Lorenzo Neal (the best in the game), Tony Richardson and Mack Strong the traditional roles of FBs are gone.
SD's offense finally was opened up a few weeks ago after the players went to Marty and complained about his "Martyball". Then he let Rivers air it out and they won.
Who cares if McNabb owns up to the 2nd quarter gaffe publicly? Reid called him on it publicly and they have watched film. As long as he acknowledges it within the TEAM it doesn't matter what he says to the press and publicly. I know thats not what some want to hear and certainly the WIP hosts cannot grasp that, but thats how it is.
Reid is going nowhere nor should he.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 24, 2006, 01:04:32 PM
You want the Eagles to play Martyball? Go to SD and ask the fans how much they like that offense. His playoff record is horrendus. And even if they did bring a guy in who liked to pound the ball the team is not set up to play as such, and it would take a couple of years to implement something like that.
yeah because i said that i wanted marty as the eagles head coach???
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 24, 2006, 12:54:06 PM
And even if they did bring a guy in who liked to pound the ball the team is not set up to play as such, and it would take a couple of years to implement something like that. Unless we hit rock bottom you should expect to see Reid here till 2010.
I mentioned a 'guy' specifically so you wouldn't think I was saying we should pry Marty from SD, you must have missed it. I have no problem with our running plays, they just need to be called more often. Sometimes running twice in the same set of downs works regardless of what type of offense you're running, I know its hard to believe.
This place is retarded this week.
Quote from: Father Demon on October 24, 2006, 02:14:28 PM
This place is retarded this week.
It's only fitting, because the Eagles' season thus far has been all about playing a lot of retarded football.
Reid loss to a better gameday coach than he? Shocking.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 24, 2006, 12:19:42 PM
Heavy is the head that wears the crown. All three losses this year are on Reid. He's an awful game day coach. Simply awful.
Pretty much always has been. That Titans opener still burns me up. They had no reason to lose that game. A few changes and Reid could destroy teams in the NFL with the talent that he's had the last few years. I just hope he doesn't go out without having something lasting on his Eagles legacy because for all his faults he can still put a winner on the field with consistency... when he doesn't farg it up.