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Eagles => Eagles Talk => Topic started by: PoopyfaceMcGee on September 05, 2006, 09:04:57 AM

Title: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on September 05, 2006, 09:04:57 AM
Yuck.

GREEN - decent player/pick
STRIKETHROUGH - off the team and never really contributed
ITALICS - jury still out, but not looking good

Quote2003
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   15   Jerome McDougle   DE   Miami
2   61   L.J. Smith   TE   Rutgers
3   95   Billy McMullen   WR   Virginia
4   131   Jamaal Green   DE   Miami
6   185   Jeremy Bridges   T   Southern Mississippi
7   244   Norman LeJeune   DB   Louisiana State

Quote2004
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   16   Shawn Andrews   G   Arkansas
3   89   Matt Ware   CB   UCLA
4   129   J.R. Reed   FS   South Florida
4   131   Trey Darilek   C   Texas-El Paso

5   162   Thomas Tapeh   FB   Minnesota
6   185   Andy Hall   QB   Delaware
6   192   Dexter Wynn   CB   Colorado State
7   227   Adrien Clarke   G   Ohio State

7   242   Bruce Perry   RB   Maryland
7   243   Dominic Furio   C   Nevada-Las Vegas
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 09:08:16 AM
I just threw up a little.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: SunMo on September 05, 2006, 09:10:00 AM
that's a bad two years
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on September 05, 2006, 09:10:19 AM
It's not all bad news.  The 2005 draft is still alive and well:

Quote2005
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   31   Mike Patterson   DT   Southern California
2   35   Reggie Brown   WR   Georgia
2   63   Matt McCoy   OLB   San Diego State
3   77   Ryan Moats   RB   Louisiana Tech
4   102   Sean Considine   SS   Iowa

4   126   Todd Herremans   T   Saginaw Valley State
5   146   Trent Cole   DE   Cincinnati
5   172   Scott Young   G   Brigham Young
6   211   Calvin Armstrong   T   Washington State
7   247   Keyonta Marshall   DT   Grand Valley State
7   252   David Bergeron   LB   Stanford
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: SunMo on September 05, 2006, 09:11:09 AM
who's trent cole?
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on September 05, 2006, 09:12:26 AM
Sometimes it's a fine line between the GREEN and the ITALICS, especially when you're talking about 2nd year players.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Seabiscuit36 on September 05, 2006, 09:16:30 AM
Quote from: SunMo on September 05, 2006, 09:11:09 AM
who's trent cole?
He's the QB for the rams who tore his acl, then Kurt Warner ran onto the field after his shift at the quickymart and threw the football over the stadium...
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: stalker on September 05, 2006, 09:22:35 AM
Another way to look at is that being one of the top teams means that you draft later. Also, when you have a real top team, and sign a top FA annually or so, you don\'t have many holes to fill.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: stalker on September 05, 2006, 09:22:35 AM
Another way to look at is that being one of the top teams means that you draft later. Also, when you have a real top team, and sign a top FA annually or so, you don\'t have many holes to fill.

How on earth can onyone try to spin those awful drafts into something positive? Just stop.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: DH on September 05, 2006, 09:24:44 AM
I wouldnt say Reed never contributed. The guy just caught a real bad break.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Seabiscuit36 on September 05, 2006, 09:25:49 AM
Quote from: Die-Hard on September 05, 2006, 09:24:44 AM
I wouldnt say Reed never contributed. The guy just caught a real bad break.
or Tear...  It sucks for Reed because he had the talent.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: stalker on September 05, 2006, 09:32:28 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: stalker on September 05, 2006, 09:22:35 AM
Another way to look at is that being one of the top teams means that you draft later. Also, when you have a real top team, and sign a top FA annually or so, you don\\\'t have many holes to fill.

How on earth can onyone try to spin those awful drafts into something positive? Just stop.

Dude, you missed me! I noticed you havent been nearly as refreshing since I havent been around. But really this isnt spin. Certain teams consistently draft in the top five and you would have to consider their drafts as a tragedy. Middle teams have are a little better. The top teams sometimes find a starter but the occurence is rare. I have no evidence to back this up with the exception of my observation that teams tend to be in close to the same draft order year after year. And the FACT that the only real measure of success is how late you draft the next year!
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Philly_Crew on September 05, 2006, 10:38:54 AM
I was really disappointed in Matt Ware and Billy McMullen since I was hoping for big things from them. 
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on September 05, 2006, 10:42:01 AM
Yep.

But the '02 and '05 drafts that bracket them are good. Well, the '02 is. The '05 simply looks good so far.

And they did have good UDFA's in '03 too.

Sometimes you have a couple of stinkers. You'd be surprised to see how poor other teams do in comparison to the Birds - even with these two zesty drafts.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Susquehanna Birder on September 05, 2006, 10:50:37 AM
It would be interesting to do the same thing with the other NFCE teams. Well, maybe not interesting enough for me to do it, but somewhat interesting.

Hindsight is a powerful demotivator. Focus on now, and look forward.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Dillen on September 05, 2006, 12:39:48 PM
Good pick/player
Average pick/player or did not live up to hype but still good
Off the team
Jury still out

taterskins
Quote2003
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
2   44   Taylor Jacobs   WR   Florida
3   81   Derrick Dockery   G   Texas
7   232   Gibran Hamdan   QB   Indiana

Quote2004
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   5   Sean Taylor   FS   Miami
3   81   Chris Cooley   FB   Utah State

5   151   Mark Wilson   T   California
6   180   Jim Molinaro   T   Notre Dame

Cowboys
Quote2003
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   5   Terence Newman   CB   Kansas State
2   38   Al Johnson   C   Wisconsin
3   69   Jason Witten   TE   Tennessee
4   103   Bradie James   ILB   Louisiana State

6   178   B.J. Tucker   CB   Wisconsin
6   186   Zuriel Smith   WR   Hampton
7   219   Justin Bates   G   Colorado

Quote2004
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
2   43   Julius Jones   RB   Notre Dame
2   52   Jacob Rogers   T   Southern California
3   83   Stephen Peterman   G   Louisiana State

4   121   Bruce Thornton   CB   Georgia
5   144   Sean Ryan   TE   Boston College
7   205   Nathan Jones   CB   Rutgers

7   216   Patrick Crayton   WR   N.W. Oklahoma
7   223   Jacques Reeves   CB   Purdue
*Rogers and Peterman have played a total of 5 games.

Giants

Quote2003
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   25   William Joseph   DT   Miami
2   56   Osi Umenyiora   DE   Troy
3   91   Visanthe Shiancoe   TE   Morgan State
4   123   Roderick Babers   DB   Texas
5   160   David Diehl   G   Illinois
6   199   Willie Ponder   WR   S.E. Missouri
6   207   Frank Walker   CB   Tuskegee

6   211   David Tyree   WR   Syracuse
7   240   Charles Drake   DB   Michigan
7   249   Wayne Lucier   C   Colorado
7   255   Kevin Walter   WR   Eastern Michigan

Quote2004
Rd   Sel#   Player   Pos.   School
1   4   Philip Rivers   QB   North Carolina State..turned into Eli
2   34   Chris Snee   G   Boston College

4   97   Reggie Torbor   OLB   Auburn
5   136   Gibril Wilson   SS   Tennessee
6   168   Jamaar Taylor   WR   Texas A&M
7   203   Drew Strojny   T   Duke
7   253   Isaac Hilton   DE   Hampton
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: The BIGSTUD on September 05, 2006, 02:22:57 PM
In order to judge the Eagles draft, you need to compare it with how the entire NFL did. Obviously you won't because it takes too long, but I have a feeling a lot of teams are in the same boat as the Eagles.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on September 05, 2006, 02:25:44 PM
How shockingly homertastic of you to say!

Compare all you want.  The 2003 & 2004 drafts were abysmal.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Dillen on September 05, 2006, 02:36:15 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on September 05, 2006, 02:25:44 PM
Compare all you want.  The 2003 & 2004 drafts were abysmal.
He has a point though, I went through the 03 draft awhile ago (didnt do 04, although obviously it was way better) and overall the 03 draft was garbage.

#2 WR Charles Rogers, bust
#4 DT Dewayne Robertson, bust
#5 CB Terrance Newman, good but hasnt lived up to top 5 potential
#6 DT Jonathon Sullivan, bust
#12 DT Jimmy Kennedy, bust
#13 DE Ty Warren, good but not top 15
#14 DE Michael Haynes, bust
#15 DE Jerome McDougle, jury still out but leaning towards bust
#17 WR Bryant Johnson, average
#18 DE Calvin Pace, bust
#19 QB Kyle Boller, bust
#21 C Jeff Faine, average
#22 QB Rex Grossman, injury problems
#25 DT William Joseph, bust
#26 OT Kwame Harris, average at best
#28 CB Andre Woolfolk, average
#30 CB Sammy Davis, bust

That's just the first round. There are hardly any good players in the entire draft compared to past drafts. Not defending the Eagles because their draft was horrible...but so were the others. Just saying.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: methdeez on September 05, 2006, 03:08:17 PM
I would love to look at the Lions for the past 5 years. And I can't believe that the owners don't do it and then fire millen.
I know the Fords are rich, but don't you think you should monitor a $350 milion investment a little?
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Phanatic on September 05, 2006, 03:20:42 PM
So in the NFC East the Eagles did about as good as the Skins.... That is BAD!!

Only a little bit behind the Pokes.

Gints take the prize for best NFC East drafts those years...
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: bobbyinlondon on September 05, 2006, 03:21:53 PM
Dillen, you might want to edit the Cowboys a little--Jacob Rogers was cut back in May, and Peterman was cut last week when they had to go to 75 players.

Ponder was cut by the Giants as well.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: The BIGSTUD on September 05, 2006, 03:28:36 PM
Well, say for a second that most of the league had as many busted picks as the Eagles did in those 2 drafts. Then wouldn't that have made the Eagles' drafts average instead of bad? Because even if the Eagles picked other players instead of the ones they drafted, then they would still end up with another team's busts, right? That's one way of looking at it. Or you could just say that the Eagles had a bad draft because the draft class was bad.

That is assuming other teams did bad 1-7, because I have no idea if they did or didn't. I didn't go through all 32 team drafts.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Drunkmasterflex on September 05, 2006, 07:28:56 PM
I have thought the Eagles have done really well in the draft under Reid and company, really that isn't the case.  Other than the 2002 draft when they got 4 players that could all be Pro Bowlers they haven't done that well.  That being said it seems like the players they do hit on are usually extremely good.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: QB Eagles on September 05, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Personally, I'm shocked that we are 25 posts into this thread and no one has yet posted a spirited defense of Jerome McDougle. In seasons past there were always people leaping to his defense on here whenever so much as a peep was said about his bust-itude. Has that contingent officially surrendered, or what?
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Drunkmasterflex on September 05, 2006, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: QB Eagles on September 05, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Personally, I'm shocked that we are 25 posts into this thread and no one has yet posted a spirited defense of Jerome McDougle. In seasons past there were always people leaping to his defense on here whenever so much as a peep was said about his bust-itude. Has that contingent officially surrendered, or what?

I am one that leans towards him being a bust, but in fairness to him he has never been remotely healthy.  Knowing Philly luck he will probably be the next Derrick Burgess.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on September 05, 2006, 07:57:35 PM
Quote from: QB Eagles on September 05, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Personally, I'm shocked that we are 25 posts into this thread and no one has yet posted a spirited defense of Jerome McDougle. In seasons past there were always people leaping to his defense on here whenever so much as a peep was said about his bust-itude. Has that contingent officially surrendered, or what?

Nope. He looked great in camp.

I'll wait until he blows up and the beat all of you busters over the head with how great he is. :)
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Wingspan on September 05, 2006, 08:14:49 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 05, 2006, 07:57:35 PM
Quote from: QB Eagles on September 05, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Personally, I'm shocked that we are 25 posts into this thread and no one has yet posted a spirited defense of Jerome McDougle. In seasons past there were always people leaping to his defense on here whenever so much as a peep was said about his bust-itude. Has that contingent officially surrendered, or what?

Nope. He looked great in camp.

I'll wait until he blows up and the beat all of you busters over the head with how great he is. :)

or just literally blows up
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: methdeez on September 05, 2006, 08:34:11 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 05, 2006, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: QB Eagles on September 05, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Personally, I'm shocked that we are 25 posts into this thread and no one has yet posted a spirited defense of Jerome McDougle. In seasons past there were always people leaping to his defense on here whenever so much as a peep was said about his bust-itude. Has that contingent officially surrendered, or what?

I am one that leans towards him being a bust, but in fairness to him he has never been remotely healthy.  Knowing Philly luck he will probably be the next Derrick Burgess.
Part of being a bust is never being healthy.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Beermonkey on September 05, 2006, 09:10:29 PM
Quote from: methdeez on September 05, 2006, 08:34:11 PM
Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 05, 2006, 07:45:34 PM
Quote from: QB Eagles on September 05, 2006, 07:41:45 PM
Personally, I'm shocked that we are 25 posts into this thread and no one has yet posted a spirited defense of Jerome McDougle. In seasons past there were always people leaping to his defense on here whenever so much as a peep was said about his bust-itude. Has that contingent officially surrendered, or what?

I am one that leans towards him being a bust, but in fairness to him he has never been remotely healthy.  Knowing Philly luck he will probably be the next Derrick Burgess.
Part of being a bust is never being healthy.

Most busts aren't shot in the stomach right before training camp though. Either way, I think we'll know for sure what he really is by the end of this season.

What type of performance this season would show he's not a bust? I'm leaning towards him not working out this season, but would love to be wrong.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Diomedes on September 05, 2006, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: Beermonkey on September 05, 2006, 09:10:29 PMWhat type of performance this season would show he's not a bust?

How about 45 tackles and 6-8 sacks?  Is that too farging much to ask from a first round DE?
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on September 05, 2006, 09:32:41 PM
I'd take 30 tackles and 4 sacks, because I hope he barely sees the field.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Diomedes on September 05, 2006, 09:34:43 PM
Fair enough.  We're both farging dreaming.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Beermonkey on September 05, 2006, 09:49:59 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on September 05, 2006, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: Beermonkey on September 05, 2006, 09:10:29 PMWhat type of performance this season would show he's not a bust?

How about 45 tackles and 6-8 sacks?  Is that too farging much to ask from a first round DE?

It probably is too much given that he's not going to be on the field much with Kearse & Howard ahead of him now. FF's numbers look realistic & would make me feel better about him. Not much better, but better.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: General_Failure on September 05, 2006, 09:51:57 PM
Wait, he wasn't cut?
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Drunkmasterflex on September 05, 2006, 09:53:43 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on September 05, 2006, 09:28:38 PM
Quote from: Beermonkey on September 05, 2006, 09:10:29 PMWhat type of performance this season would show he's not a bust?

How about 45 tackles and 6-8 sacks?  Is that too farging much to ask from a first round DE?

That may just elevate him barely above bust status, considering they gave up a second rounder to move up and get him.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Diomedes on September 05, 2006, 11:06:55 PM
That's what I'm saying.  It would take that much to stave off the "bust" tag--which is very different from justifying what was spent to acquire him--and there's no farging way he's gonna produce those kind of stats.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 11:31:52 PM
If McDougle gets 4 sacks this year I'll swallow my tongue from shock.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Feva on September 05, 2006, 11:38:24 PM
^^ Even more reason to hope McDougle can get it going.^^
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on September 05, 2006, 11:40:13 PM
(http://www.dailyrecord.com/_photos/sports/111804c1_Eli.jpg)

Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: General_Failure on September 06, 2006, 12:35:09 AM
Great, he's got his Freddie Mitchell moment of fame. Can he play DE, too?
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Sgt PSN on September 06, 2006, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 11:31:52 PM
If McDougle gets 4 sacks this year I'll swallow my tongue from shock.

Quote from: EagleFeva on September 05, 2006, 11:38:24 PM
^^ Even more reason to hope McDougle can get it going.^^

Why?  It's not like he needs his tongue to post here. 
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Feva on September 06, 2006, 01:01:31 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 06, 2006, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 11:31:52 PM
If McDougle gets 4 sacks this year I'll swallow my tongue from shock.

Quote from: EagleFeva on September 05, 2006, 11:38:24 PM
^^ Even more reason to hope McDougle can get it going.^^

Why?  It's not like he needs his tongue to post here. 

I was kinda holding out hope that he'd choke on it.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: QB Eagles on September 06, 2006, 06:17:09 AM
He's fifth on the depth chart. Now that's first round production. And he wasn't shot, or stabbed, or even barbed by a stingray this preseason.
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Sgt PSN on September 06, 2006, 08:18:09 AM
Quote from: EagleFeva on September 06, 2006, 01:01:31 AM
Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 06, 2006, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on September 05, 2006, 11:31:52 PM
If McDougle gets 4 sacks this year I'll swallow my tongue from shock.

Quote from: EagleFeva on September 05, 2006, 11:38:24 PM
^^ Even more reason to hope McDougle can get it going.^^

Why?  It's not like he needs his tongue to post here. 

I was kinda holding out hope that he'd choke on it.


Good point. 
Title: Re: 2003 & 2004 draft classes
Post by: Dillen on September 06, 2006, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 05, 2006, 11:40:13 PM
(http://www.dailyrecord.com/_photos/sports/111804c1_Eli.jpg)
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2905/motivator389a73fa5600447fa18da.jpg)
Compliments of Wingspan.