I am constantly berating teams like the taterskins for their lack of depth, but after watching and readin about the preseason games so far I wonder what the Eagles have to offer in terms of depth.
This is how I see it on offense and defense.
Offense
QB
- Pro-bowl level starter, former pro-bowler as a backup
- GOOD DEPTH
RB
- Unknown, but with health problems at the 1, 2, 3 and 5 spots this could be a lot of trouble. Assuming a healthy lineup, good depth. But who among us can assume that?
- POOR DEPTH
WR
- An unproven #1, an undrafted rookie #2. Hot garbage backing up.
- TERRIBLE DEPTH
TE
- Quality starter. Quality Backup
- GOOD DEPTH
OL
- Pro-bowl level starters. Youth size and talent at backup.
- GOOD DEPTH
Defense
DL
- Former pro-bowl level starters, youth and ability across the line.
- GOOD DEPTH
DB
- Pro-bowl level starters, capable nickle and dime backs.
- GOOD DEPTH
LB
- One Pro-bowl lever starter who can't play the pass. Two unproven possibly awful starters. The bakcups can't beat out the terrible starters.
- TERRIBLE DEPTH
I would say that the majority of the team has good depth. The problem is that the positions that don't have depth, have ABSOLUTEY nothing to fall back on. What happens if Westbrook, Trotter or Brown get injured?
so let me get this straight, you're nervous about the RB situation? since when?
PS - Don't ever call Hank hot garbage again. He's the savior.
If McNabb goes down, the season is over.
The team can sustain a hit here or there at every other position (except maybe to Akers) and still be a good team. Obviously it can't take a whole lot because it's thin at a lot of spots, but if McNabb goes down, it's over.
Reggie Brown is a Pro Bowler, and since I am projectioning him to be bionic, he his made of titanium and unable to sustain injury. Oh, he regenerates people around him too.
I don't think Eagles have any less depth than anyone else. There are plenty of teams that don't have good depth. Just look in the division.
taterskins are screwed if at the certain positions if Portis, Moss, Samuels, Jansen, Washington go down.
The Cowboys are screwed if TO, Witten, Fabini, Adams, Ware, Spears go down.
The Giants are screwed if Burress, Eli, Pierce, Shockey, Tiki, Umenyiora go down.
Pretty much most NFL teams are screwed if their best players get hurt at any position. Not many teams have all this superstar depth. Some teams have better depth than others, but I don't think it's significant. Although I haven't looked at all 32 team's depth charts to find out 100%.
welcome to the majority of teams in the NFL RJ. if every team had a significant backup at the core skill positions when someone got hurt, there wouldnt be a worry in the world
but as we all know...the nfl is not a perfect world--but one plagued by injuries. Its a roll of the dice each year of which team gets pummeled with injuries and which one can survive it and push forward
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 18, 2006, 04:48:31 PM
I don't think Eagles have any less depth than anyone else. There are plenty of teams that don't have good depth. Just look in the division.
Oh so you think the Eagles are in good shape going into the season? Weird.
The Patriots over the last 5 years are about the only team I can think of that was able to suffer injuries to key players and not notice a significant drop off in production from that position.
Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps the point rjs is getting at is that the depth on this team for each position is all or nothing. It's either really good depth or poopy depth rather than being a little more even across the board.
I'm sure that most other teams are like that as well but his post does illustrate a dramatic difference in depth for all the positions on this team.
Regardless, you all suck.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on August 18, 2006, 04:54:57 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps the point rjs is getting at is that the depth on this team for each position is all or nothing. It's either really good depth or poopy depth rather than being a little more even across the board.
I'm sure that most other teams are like that as well but his post does illustrate a dramatic difference in depth for all the positions on this team.
Yay, someone got it. Idiots.
I think you hit the nail on the head where they have depth it is good if not great for this day and age.....but where it is thin it is perilously thin, could you imagine on defense if Trot goes down. He is our only bonafide playmaker at that position, if he went down it would be disastrous.
I dont understand whats the point of pointing this out. is this news to you guys. this is like saying dont eat yellow snow. if the majority of teams dont have significant depth, why should we concern ourselves then....to bring out more negativity? the chances are so slim to have that kind of player to replace the other
theres a reason why there is a change in the spread for each game when a major player goes down. its part of the game-- and as noted earlier....its a roll of the dice each year.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 18, 2006, 04:13:51 PM
LB
- One Pro-bowl lever starter who can't play the pass. Two unproven possibly awful starters. The bakcups can't beat out the terrible starters.
- TERRIBLE DEPTH
I dont think its terrible death, there are alot of talented guys but they're extremely unproven and the other guys have proven they will be average at best. Dhani has looked a bit better in the preseason, but it is only preseason and you shouldnt get your hopes up. McCoy could turn out to be good. Barber is decent when healthy, Simoneau isnt very good and wont make any big plays but he's a decent 5th LB. Gaither looks to turn out well. Gocong has a lot of talent but there's no way he makes a decent impact this year other than STs.
depth is incredibly overrated...every team is deep at one or maybe two spots and real thin at others
for the most part any team that loses some important players is going to be hurt
which is why id rather be the taterskins who pour dump trucks of money into their starters than i would the eagles who have 'depth' but also have two entire parts of their team (lb and wr) that are awful
The real point here is that other teams 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stringers are absolutely destroying ours. I'm not sure if its coaching, drafting, or lack of reps in camp, but they're downright pathetic.
a lot of it is the eagles drafts have been weak...they seem to be able to score a good pick here or there who starts or plays a lot for the team....but the rest of the picks are garbage...theres no in between...and its those in between players that make up your 2nd and third stringers
much of it is the eagles insistence on getting 'good guys' instead of athletes
musa smith vs reno mahe
devard darling vs matt ware
walter vs garcia
ect...
Koy is a great guy. He has no business playing in the NFL.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 18, 2006, 09:17:36 PM
a lot of it is the eagles drafts have been weak...they seem to be able to score a good pick here or there who starts or plays a lot for the team....but the rest of the picks are garbage...theres no in between...and its those in between players that make up your 2nd and third stringers
much of it is the eagles insistence on getting 'good guys' instead of athletes
musa smith vs reno mahe
devard darling vs matt ware
walter vs garcia
ect...
That trend seems to have changed the last two seasons they seem to be getting some good depth from those drafts.
altho they have not been very good im not killing their drafts....and in not even complaining about a lack of depth they because as i said depth is overrated...i was more talking to the people who are unhappy with the 2nd and 3rd teamers
A lot of these issues could just be smoke and others could be bonafide fire. It's really hard to judge based on the pre-season for many, many reasons... especially the defense.
I seriously think RB is the position with the worst depth, and it's not even close. The tailback AND fullback positions are horrendous as a whole. Anyone owning Moats stock is hoping it rebounds after a huge crash. Perry could be toast. Buckhalter, who should have been a no-brainer cut, looks like the 2nd best RB on the team.
Yuck.
A lot of these issues could just be smoke and others could be bonafide fire. It's really hard to judge based on the pre-season for many, many reasons... especially the defense.
this is true and i dont know about you but nothing ive seen in the preseason has positively or negatively changed my outlook on the team...so far its been as expected imo
I seriously think RB is the position with the worst depth, and it's not even close. The tailback AND fullback positions are horrendous as a whole. Anyone owning Moats stock is hoping it rebounds after a huge crash. Perry could be toast. Buckhalter, who should have been a no-brainer cut, looks like the 2nd best RB on the team.
the depth at rb is worse because westbrook is so much better than everyone else....but the wr position is far worse off...at least at the rb position a player can be elevated by the offensive line....put an average rb behind a good line and he automatically be comes better...at wr its you vs the secondary and if you cant get open you cant get open...and thats what was most scary about the raven game...mcnabb had ample time and still no one could create space
I think the real correlation here is draft ability.
They've done pretty well drafting lineman, DBs.
They've done poorly with WRs and LBs, which explains the depth.
The only place this correlation fails is at RB. But that's an aberration, because they clearly don't give a shtein.
Quote from: MadMarchHare on August 21, 2006, 09:47:49 AM
I think the real correlation here is draft ability.
They've done pretty well drafting lineman, DBs.
They've done poorly with WRs and LBs, which explains the depth.
The only place this correlation fails is at RB. But that's an aberration, because they clearly don't give a shtein.
I agree on all points. What I don't understand is how they can be so spot on at scouting certina positions and so godawful at others. I also don't understand how they can repeatedly miss the mark on the same positions and not try to make up for it through free agency. But whatever, that isn't anything new.
The trend is strong enough, it can't be by chance. They just are incapable of drafting anyone worth a shtein at LB or WR. Hopefully Brown breaks the trend. Avant too. And McCoy.
Quote from: MadMarchHare on August 21, 2006, 01:41:54 PM
The trend is strong enough, it can't be by chance. They just are incapable of drafting anyone worth a shtein at LB or WR. Hopefully Brown breaks the trend. Avant too. And McCoy.
No Gocong?
I wonder what position we draft next year in the top 2 rounds. I guess a lot of that depends on the salary structure M. Lew wants (for some reason I think he's going to test UFA) and how well the backup S's play. Considine has shown me jack in pre-season games. Ware is here and there and Mikell ain't bad, but not great.
We won't draft a qb, rb, ol (?) in the top 2. TE/WR maybe on O and then do we really have any needs for D for top two rounds besides possibly S? Our depth seems pretty good there.
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on August 21, 2006, 02:43:30 PM
I wonder what position we draft next year in the top 2 rounds. I guess a lot of that depends on the salary structure M. Lew wants (for some reason I think he's going to test UFA) and how well the backup S's play. Considine has shown me jack in pre-season games. Ware is here and there and Mikell ain't bad, but not great.
We won't draft a qb, rb, ol (?) in the top 2. TE/WR maybe on O and then do we really have any needs for D for top two rounds besides possibly S? Our depth seems pretty good there.
I would put a chunk of money down to say the Birds would take a offensive lineman with their first or second pick.
Yeah, probably...wouldn't surprise me if our first two rounds go RT, LG.
It'll be the top pick coming out of BYU - whomever that might be.
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on August 21, 2006, 02:52:37 PM
Yeah, probably...wouldn't surprise me if our first two rounds go RT, LG.
That wouldnt make any sense at all to me. What's Herremans doing then?
Playing LG. :) Well, the LG was kinda a joke. Just saying it wouldn't surprise me if we did. If there's a "Shawn Andrews" type available for our LG spot, I wouldn't be shocked. I really wonder how Hank will fit in there...does he really have a chance working the season with the 1's or is that spot locked up to the todd?
Hank has no shot, and even if he did, he wouldnt be an Eagle next year. Next year Herremans starts at RT most likely, with MJG at LG.
MJG needs to drop some poundage. He has a little trouble like Andrews did last year with the shiftier DT's in regards to their lateral movement. Hopefully Andrews can get in his ear and we can have two great G's for years to come. What ever happened to Armstrong being our RT? Not mean enough, fell of the charts?
Armstrong would have never even been considered a starting RT of the future until Herremans changed positions.
The only future in a description about Armstrong would be "hopefully he'll be a good backup in the future."
He's horrible.
Quote
Falcons still in talks to deal Duckett
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
ATLANTA -- Despite losing one suitor when the New York Jets acquired Kevan Barlow from San Francisco on Sunday afternoon, the Atlanta Falcons on Monday evening continued trade discussions involving tailback T.J. Duckett, the subject of trade rumors for much of the offseason.
Several league sources said Monday that Falcons officials were discussing with several clubs a possible trade of the fifth-year veteran, and making progress on some fronts.
There were reports last week that the Falcons had fielded inquiries about Duckett from at least four teams. One of those clubs was definitely the Jets, but New York instead dealt for Barlow on Sunday, sending a fourth-round pick in the 2007 draft to the 49ers for the five-year veteran back.
Apparently, though, there is no shortage of interest in Duckett, who is having an excellent training camp and preseason. And while Falcons brass suggested Monday the team might retain Duckett for 2006, Atlanta is engaged in substantive trade talks on multiple fronts. One possible scenario, albeit a long shot, was said to be a three-team deal.
It is not known what kind of price tag Atlanta has set for Duckett, the Falcons' first-round choice in the 2002 draft, and a player clearly coveted by some tailback-needy franchises. The Falcons rejected a proposal by the Pittsburgh Steelers on draft weekend in April, and there were reports at the time that Atlanta wanted a third-round choice for him.
The Falcons are seeking a veteran wide receiver to fill the No. 3 spot, a vacancy that was created when Brian Finneran suffered a season-ending knee injury early in training camp. Atlanta likes its two young starters at the position, former first-round picks Michael Jenkins and Roddy White, but no one has stepped up to fill the void at the critical No. 3 spot. Coach Jim Mora acknowledged after Saturday's preseason loss at Green Bay that the Falcons "don't have" a proven third wide receiver right now.
In their trade discussions with the Jets, it was reported that Falcons officials were trying to acquire Justin McCareins, a five-year veteran who has lost his starting job in New York and who has clearly fallen out of favor with the new coaching staff there. The Falcons are also seeking a backup safety to bolster the position behind starters Lawyer Milloy and Chris Crocker.
Mora was particularly critical on Saturday of the performance of his backup safeties.
Duckett, 25, is not a good fit for the one-cut running game the Falcons emphasize and is viewed around the league more as a "downhill" runner. He is entering the final season of his original rookie contract, and will be eligible for unrestricted free agency next spring, and the Falcons stand the prospect of losing him and not receiving any compensation unless they trade him.
But dealing Duckett would leave Atlanta with no proven backup to starter Warrick Dunn. The team chose Jerious Norwood of Mississippi State in the third round of this year's draft. The rookie has been impressive at times, but it is difficult to ascertain at this point if he is ready to step into the primary backup role.
In two preseason outings, Duckett has rushed for 96 yards on 15 carries. The 96 yards are the sixth most in the NFL in the preseason and Duckett's healthy 6.4-yard average is second best among players with at least 15 rushing attempts.
The former Michigan State standout, chosen 18th overall in the 2002 draft, has carried 552 times for 2,175 yards and 31 touchdowns in 54 career appearances, including 14 starts. His best season was in 2002, when he ran for 779 yards and 11 touchdowns. As a backup, Duckett rushed for 500-plus yards in each of his first three seasons in the league, but dropped off to just 380 yards in 2005.
He has averaged nine rushing touchdowns over the last three seasons.
Would you send Considine for him? Not so sure about that one...the Eagles obviously don't have a WR reciever they'd want. Maybe GLew and Ware?
I would send them Considine in a goddamned heartbeat.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 22, 2006, 06:17:31 PM
I would send them Considine in a goddamned heartbeat.
I was thinking that, but JJ apparently is planning to have Considine playing a role in nickel situations. The guy is decent as a backup/nickel guy in my opinion. If they send Considine, that would leave us with Ware back there, and I'm not so sure I'd be okay with that....
Duckett is EXACTLY what this team needs. I mean, if they got him for anything less than a second rounder I would be doing cartwheels.
Let's send them Greg Lewis, Matt Ware, and a 6th! That would totally do it! Totally.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 22, 2006, 06:22:34 PM
Duckett is EXACTLY what this team needs. I mean, if they got him for anything less than a second rounder I would be doing cartwheels.
So, in summary, it's not likely RJS will be doing anyway cartwheels.
Well.....at least no non-booze induced carwheels.
3 reasons why we wouldnt ever get Duckett:
1) there are other teams starved for a RB with most likely better trade options than the Eagles would ever ever give up-that we apparently know
2) How many times do we have to realize that Andy doesnt use the big back theory--see steven davis?
3) Atlantas zone blocking scheme on offense is the reason for Ducketts success. On this offense, you need a quick gap runner that blows thru the whole..aka Westbrook. Duckett, if you notice on many of his runs, has big enough holes to run through based on that scheme, and picks up big chunks of yards. His success is not predicated on speed. How many big holes do you ever see with this line, as you do with KC, PITT, INDY, or Denver? we dont have the lineman speed
the dream for a rb continues....
4) the eagles' front office has no balls.
the minute theres even a mention of another team involved the eagles have virtually no chance of going after a player...they are the gold standard after all and are above competing with other teams for talent
so f-in painful to listen and watch this organization run things in the off-season
They have a ton of cap space though.
IGY's rockin' the Eastern Motors ad. :-D
Another step towards the end of the neckbeard era.
QuoteEagles | Harbaugh discusses holder situation
Wed, 23 Aug 2006 18:43:34 -0700
During his press conference, Philadelphia Eagles special teams coordinator John Harbaugh discussed the situation of whether QB Koy Detmer or P Dirk Johnson will be the holder for PK David Akers. "[QB] Koy [Detmer] is the better holder by the virtue of the experience. [P] Dirk [Johnson] is doing real well. Dirk took the majority of the reps this week. Dirk's going to get the majority of the reps during this game. We're trying to get them both ready. We're trying to make sure we have two guys that are ready to go and I think coach Reid will make that decision based on the holding part of it but also based on the offensive part as well," said Harbaugh. He added that Johnson has done just as well as Detmer in training camp.
:'(
Good. Koy's a good mascot but an awful football player. Time to cut him loose.
QuoteEagles | Harbaugh discusses Bunkley's role on special teams
Wed, 23 Aug 2006 18:28:23 -0700
During his press conference, Philadelphia Eagles special teams coordinator John Harbaugh discussed DL Brodrick Bunkley's role on special teams. "Bunkley is working on the wedge in kickoff returns. He is on the field goal block team and is a heck of an athlete, big guy, tough guy and likes to play, so those two phases for us. He looks good. The wedge is new for him; he's never played it before so he's learning. The toughest thing for the wedge players is vision. You get back there and all of a sudden there's a bunch of guys flying at you and you've got to find your guy. Pick your guy out of the crowd and go block him, and it happens. But, field goal block he has done that his whole life so he is good at that right now," said Harbaugh.
Great. It shouldn't take long for Reno to get rolled up behing him and blow out Bunkley's knee.
That means that Reno will actually have to return the ball far enough to catch up with the wedge. He's not quite there yet. Only about 15 more yards to go!
If Detmer gets cut, GF should use a neckbeard avatar to commemorate his greatness.
Anyone think Bunkley on special teams is a good thing or a non-issue?
I was assuming Reno would block while someone else returned it.
Whew! Then we're safe and so is Bunk's knee! Reno stinks as a lead blocker on KOR's. :yay
If Detmer is cut, then does Chang make the team, do they pick up someone else or do they just carry 2 QBs?
They trade a 3rd round pick for Favre.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 02:12:36 AM
If Detmer is cut, then does Chang make the team, do they pick up someone else or do they just carry 2 QBs?
I think they'd probably go with 2 QB's on the active roster. Chang would be relegated to the Practice Squad.
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 24, 2006, 02:33:31 AM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 02:12:36 AM
If Detmer is cut, then does Chang make the team, do they pick up someone else or do they just carry 2 QBs?
I think they'd probably go with 2 QB's on the active roster. Chang would be relegated to the Practice Squad.
I agree. Also, Bunkley on special teams makes no sense if he is the starting DT with Patterson in the rotation.
i have no problem with bunkley on special teams as im all for the best players being on the field...no matter where it is....to make the team better....
and if thats the case with bunkley then westbrook or lito should damn well be returning punts
Can't agree there. "Depth" at RB is way too scary to have Westbrook back there. Depth at DT is solid.
four or five extra plays a game doing something that isnt any more risky than running the ball wont make a difference and if it does then westbrook shouldnt be their starting running back in the first place
That's a totally different argument.
the argument is that the best players should be on the field at all times
Well, that is false in some cases. If Westbrook's your best running back by far (which he is), you would rather have him in on 1st down at 100% stamina instead of sitting out or at less than 100% after a punt return.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 24, 2006, 08:05:59 AM
four or five extra plays a game doing something that isnt any more risky than running the ball wont make a difference and if it does then westbrook shouldnt be their starting running back in the first place
Jason Sehorn says hi.
Jason Sehorn says hi.
so does deion sanders and every other player in nfl history who done double duty on punt returns
I think its obvious to say that there is more risk involved on punt returns and kickoffs--unless you had the fastest, manuvering speed in the NFL like #21.
You 11 guys taking a 10 yard head start, full head of steam, dodging blockers, and looking to take the returners knees out. Its a bit different than lining up on the ball
as much as westbrook would be a treat, his injury history is a concern enough to put back there
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 24, 2006, 02:12:36 AM
If Detmer is cut, then does Chang make the team, do they pick up someone else or do they just carry 2 QBs?
drew henson :yay
I think its obvious to say that there is more risk involved on punt returns and kickoffs
i think its obvious that it isnt.....for starters if a punt returner feels like he cant make the play he can simply waive his hand and no one is allowed to tackle him...of course rb's get hurt more because they touch the ball more but i bet per touch theres more injuries to rb's than pr's...in fact you hardly ever hear of pr's being hurt
the notion that two or three punt returns a game is going to get someone hurt is idiotic and id love to smack the person who started it all
if you go by that then rb's across the league should not be allowed to touch the ball more than 10 times a game because theres more chance a rb gets hurt running and catching rhe ball 13 times a game vs 10
Quote from: EagleFeva on August 24, 2006, 11:37:46 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 24, 2006, 08:05:59 AM
four or five extra plays a game doing something that isnt any more risky than running the ball wont make a difference and if it does then westbrook shouldnt be their starting running back in the first place
Jason Sehorn says hi.
i think it's a little different with a DB...unless he fumbles, he's not right back on the field after a return.
wait!?!
yous are arguing westbrook should not return punts because if he were to rip off a 50 yard return he would be to tired to run on the next play??
how many teams starting RB is also their teams punt retuner?
i'm not arguing anything.
i'm a little in shock right now that you actually know punctuation.
hwo many teams have a rb that would be their best returner...and one of if not the best pr in the nfl....if put there
answer = none
not anyone can be a pr....hence the eagles trying to find one for the past five eyars
regardless of their toughness, how many times one touches the ball or whatever....its a different type of play and there is more concern for injury
sure if he waives off the play, hes fine. but if he doesnt and the defenders sees that, your looking at about 5 guys right in your mug ( as your looking up in the air for the ball) ready to cripple you.
more dangerous, no question
i can't believe there are 2 more pre-season games...this sucks.
its a different type of play and there is more concern for injury
he shouldnt run screens end arounds or rb options either then...all different plays and more concern for injury
Quote from: Lil' Miss SunMo on August 24, 2006, 12:51:36 PM
i can't believe there are 2 more pre-season games...this sucks.
The regular season never gets here fast enough.
Quote from: General_Failure on August 24, 2006, 12:57:04 PM
The regular season never gets here fast enough.
normally, yeah, but i think 5 pre-season games, and an earlier starting camp has made it worse
The last one doesn't matter for shtein. Starters won't see more than a series or two, tops. 2nd team won't see more than a quarter. It'll be a game strictly to work out the 3s and 4s.
thanks andy
Quote from: reese125 on August 24, 2006, 12:50:03 PM
regardless of their toughness, how many times one touches the ball or whatever....its a different type of play and there is more concern for injury
sure if he waives off the play, hes fine. but if he doesnt and the defenders sees that, your looking at about 5 guys right in your mug ( as your looking up in the air for the ball) ready to cripple you.
more dangerous, no question
Forget the risk of injury - I just want Westbrook at 100% for 1st down.
if your talking 100% just for stamina purposes, then it shouldnt be in issue. thats what training camp is for. Its not like westbrook is going to return a punt or kickoff for 50+ yards everytime he touches it.
if you cant catch the ball, run it for 20 yards, wait for a commercial break and get back on track by 1st down, you have other issues
They don't always go to commerical.
I agree that injury is the primary concern, but I just wanted to present a valid secondary argument.
hank baskett would run it 80 yards, and need a chute to pop out of his back to stop himself before knocking a wall down.
and then he'd do it again, while eating a stick of butter
Westbrook should only be a part time running back in this league. And he should be returning punts for the Eagles.
Anything else is misusing him.
He is a part-time RB. He's a full-time receiver though.
GREAT article on the d-line (http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/15347127.htm)
QuoteJasper gives nod to young rivalsBy LES BOWEN
bowenl@phillynews.com
THE INTERVIEW began with reporters asking Ed Jasper about his success at blocking kicks over the years. Somehow, it morphed into him basically cutting himself from the team.
Sometimes, a day in the locker room is like a box of chocolates...
The whole thing started when Eagles special-teams coordinator John Harbaugh noted that Jasper has blocked five kicks in his nine NFL seasons with the Eagles, Falcons and Raiders, two short of the NFL record, Harbaugh said. (By the way, that apparently isn't true; Hall of Famer Ted Hendricks is credited with blocking 25 field goals or extra points. Seven is Hendricks' one-season record.)
At any rate, Jasper, 33, then said he didn't think being able to block kicks would be of much help in making the team, and he talked about what an excellent group of young defensive tackles the Birds have now. Jasper signed with the Eagles as a free agent before the team drafted first-round rookie Brodrick Bunkley and sixth-rounder LaJuan Ramsey.
"How do I fit in? The truth is, now, I'm going to tell you what - if I was a d-line coach or a head coach, I would always go with the young guys," Jasper said. "It's so hard to find defensive linemen, you can never let a young defensive lineman go. Is it hard for me to say? No. I've had my moment in the sun. Not at all. There's some young guys here - Bunk and Ramsey - who have a bright, long future if they keep their head right."
Jasper has done a respectable job in the preseason, but probably does face an uphill fight, even if defensive coordinator Jim Johnson gets his wish and is allowed to keep 10 defensive linemen, something Johnson spoke of recently. It's pretty easy to count to 10 without Jasper: ends Jevon Kearse, Darren Howard, Trent Cole, Juqua Thomas and Jerome McDougle, then tackles Darwin Walker, Mike Patterson, Bunkley, Ramsey and Sam Rayburn.
Jasper apparently has done the same math.
"Don't get me wrong. I ain't saying it because I can't play or anything like that," Jasper said. "I'm just telling you what I would do. Those young guys, I'd keep a couple of vets around to help [new defensive line coach Pete] Jenkins out but... Just think about how long and how far between it's been since I've been here [1997 and '98] that you've found defensive linemen. They're few and far between. It's not just like that here, it's like that everywhere. When you get some good, young defensive linemen that you've got a chance to groom, you've got to let them do their thing."
Young talent is one reason Jasper thinks the Eagles' d-line will be really good this season. Another reason is Jenkins, whose philosophies Jasper knows well from having played for Jenkins disciple Bill Johnson at Texas A & M and then for the Falcons, where Johnson remains the defensive-line coach.
"What it is, is a gap-control type of line play. It's not two-gap and hitting guys in the middle... It's kind of like a gap-edge defense. And there's no sitting back watching; it's an attack defense. You'd be surprised how much it helps," Jasper said.
Jasper said the Jenkins-John-son methods helped make Pat-rick Kerney a Pro Bowler in Atlanta.
"This is just one of those defenses that takes advantage of football being a game of angles - and of fewer steps," he said. Then he gave an involved demonstration of one-gap play, focusing on one shoulder of the blocker, instead of trying to overpower him straight-up. Jasper noted that defensive linemen often are quite a bit smaller than offensive linemen these days, and trying to overpower them often doesn't work. (Until we add video to the stories, that's the best explanation you'll get.)
Jasper said he sometimes translates Jenkins for the younger players, who don't always relate to the 64-year-old coach's manner.
"They tend to have a harder time with Pete, because Pete is real old school," Jasper said. "There's, like, a generation gap. They don't know it, but for a long time, Pete Jenkins was known as the best defensive-line coach in college football... If they listen to it and buy in, the defensive line around in the next few years - you all are going to really have something to write about."
Jasper said Jenkins "expects things to be a certain way."
"The communication on the pro level and the communication on the college level are different," he said. "There's nothing wrong with anybody, everybody is getting along. I'm not saying that; it's just that there's a generation gap."
Asked about Bunkley, who notched 1 ½ sacks last week in Baltimore in only his second preseason game, after getting a late start because of a contract dispute, Jasper said: "I think he's got a chance to be really good. And I'll tell you who else - Ramsey has a chance to be just as good. Ramsey is kind of a natural pass rusher. He's kind of a natural edge guy, so he really falls right into everything that Pete is teaching right now."
Jasper said he wasn't giving up; he just has never seen this much youth and depth around him.
"Until that day comes, I'm going to work as hard as I can," he said. "But these guys are young, man. When I was down in Atlanta, I was there about 5 years before they brought in another good defensive lineman."
Move over, L.J.
Watching rookie free-agent center Nick Cole line up as a goal-line package fullback in practice inspired right guard Shawn Andrews to speak of his own aspirations to branch out.
"Coach [Andy] Reid was saying something in a joking way [about Andrews playing fullback] before we did that drill, and I said, 'Nah, tight end.' He said, 'I didn't say that, I said fullback.' But he doesn't know my tight end history, obviously; I'm very capable of catching a pass," Andrews said.
"My sophomore and junior years in high school [in Camden, Ark.] I was one of the top two or three tight ends in the nation, actually," said Andrews, who has slimmed down from about 400 pounds to around 340 this year, and is the Birds' fastest o-lineman. "I don't like to toot my own horn, but 'Beep-beep'. I was awesome. I think if I could get down to 260 or 270, even, I could run a 4.6 and probably be the best wide receiver in the league.":-D
This defense should be a lot of fun to watch. A good thing, I guess since we're probably gonna see an awful lot of it this season.
Shawn Andrews might be clinically insane. I like that.
It's not hard to write a good article when a guy gives you such great quotes.
thats what i was talking about when i gave my training camp 'report' a few weeks abck....the guy is one of the most down to earth good natured nice athletes ive ever seen
I'd keep him over Jaqua. You know, if I was in charge. Ha.
I see a soon-to-be ex-athlete auditioning for the coaching squad. good way to start is give every player and coaches props.
not a knock on him....but a great pitch
If he's not auditioning for a job in Philly, then he's certainly laying some good groundwork for somewhere else. He's def. got the teacher/coach mentality...can't make that up. The quotes are textbook without being cliched.
Maybe I'm wrong, but perhaps the point rjs is getting at is that the depth on this team for each position is all or nothing. It's either really good depth or poopy depth rather than being a little more even across the board.
I'm sure that most other teams are like that as well but his post does illustrate a dramatic difference in depth for all the positions on this team.
Just wanted to revisit the original theme of this thread.
QuoteWR
- An unproven #1, an undrafted rookie #2. Hot garbage backing up.
- TERRIBLE DEPTH
Hopefully the initial "Stallworth is a lock to get 1100 yards!!!1!!1!1" crowd has released the penises from their collective mouth and we can re-evaluate the WR position.
- The starters are young and talented. One is a speedster that has also shown that he can play physically, the other is a second year player with promise who should have good opportunities to show what he can do playing across from a proven burner. He's still a question mark, but the team no longer has to rely on him as their true number one and that is a very good thing.
- The backups don't have a lot of natural talent. What they have is a good variety of skillsets. Gaffney has good hands and doesn't shy away from the middle. Avant is also a possession guy. Grew Lewis has some speed for a 4th/5th WR. McCants has size and has been doing well on STs. Baskett has been playing above his head, so who knows what the team has there.
- This trade improves the depth tremendously, but I'm not ready to annoint Stallworth (who is always injured) and Brown (who is a total question mark) to be the next Rice and Taylor. I would say that this group has been improved to the level of the average WR corps in the league. And frankly, that is one hell of an improvement.
Average WRs are a huge improvement, yes. Throw in Westbrook and an LJ that appears to know how to hold on to the ball now and you've actually got a well rounded offense. On top of that, McNabb has looked both accurate and ready to run when nobody is open. The only thing that seems to be missing is a decent fullback, but I'm ready to blindly hope Tapeh can do something there.
This actually could be the deepest the Eagles WRs have been since AR has been here, eventhough that doesn't really say much. They at least have more poetential than any group that has been here in a long time.
Again, with Stallworth's addition... I really like this WR corps. I saw the problem before Stallworth not so much a lack of talent as it was that every seemed to be miscast. We had a #2 (at this point in his career) in Reggie cast as the top dog of the group, Baskett as the second starter who probably shouldn't be doing anything other than learning the slot position this year. Gaffney who was supposed to be a candidate for the slot, was slow to learn his head from his ass in the offense. Lewis and McCants were slated to play a notch higher on the depth chart than they should be.
Donte's prescence... knocks all the other WR's down a slot and into positions where they can actually flourish instead of playing a role on the team that they're not capable of playing. Reggie doesn't have to be THE guy, instead he can play and produce alongside another quality WR while he progresses. It puts guys like Baskett, Avant, Lewis and McCants down into the positions of depth where the offense doesn't need to rely on them, but can put them in good situations/matchups to step in and contribute when needed.
stallworth does not provide the wr with any depth...what he does is prevent a #4 type wr like hank baskett from starting
hank baskett and greg lewis as your #3 and 4's does not = depth
they did go from having one of the worst wr'ing corps in the nfl to the middle of the pack....and thats a very good thing
Basically, all the WR position had was "depth" before. Now, there is adequate starters in front of it.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 31, 2006, 08:00:38 AM
stallworth does not provide the wr with any depth...what he does is prevent a #4 type wr like hank baskett from starting
hank baskett and greg lewis as your #3 and 4's does not = depth
they did go from having one of the worst wr'ing corps in the nfl to the middle of the pack....and thats a very good thing
Ok
Back to Running Backs
Quote
Rush to judgment: Green, Suggs hoping to stay with Browns
By TOM WITHERS
Associated Press Sports
Updated: 2:53 p.m. ET Aug 30, 2006
CLEVELAND (AP) -Lee Suggs shrugs his shoulders, offers a nervous smile and twirls the orange helmet by its facemask.
Once Cleveland's leading rusher and the club's best breakaway threat, his days with the Browns seem to have dwindled to a precious few. His future uncertain, Suggs still dreams of touchdowns and 1,000-year seasons.
But right now his goals are much simpler.
"I just want to be on a team somewhere,'' he said.
When the Browns (2-1), who conclude their exhibition schedule Thursday night against the Chicago Bears (1-2), reduce their roster from 75 to 53 this weekend, Suggs knows he could be left behind.
The oft-injured 26-year-old speedster, traded on Aug. 14 to New York only to be returned as damaged goods when the Jets claimed he failed their physical, may soon be without an NFL home.
"I don't know what's going to happen,'' Suggs said following practice on Tuesday. "I may be here. I may not. I have no control over that.''
William Green, too, is facing the prospect of getting waived by the Browns.
Cleveland's leading rusher in 2002 and 2003, the former first-round pick who has overcome personal problems, has run for just 18 yards on 11 carries in the preseason.
"I'm not in the coaches' minds,'' Green said when asked of his chances of making the cut. "I don't know what they think. The only thing we can do is go out there and work hard. I'm sure that's what all the running backs do.''
The club currently has five backs: Reuben Droughns, Suggs, Green, rookie Jerome Harrison and Jason Wright. Droughns, who ran for more than 1,200 yards and the shifty Harrison, who has had a spectacular preseason, are locks. That leaves Wright, a second-year back, fighting it out with Suggs and Green.
Somebody's not making it.
Suggs and Green are expected to get plenty of chances to shine in Cleveland's final tuneup for the Sept. 10 opener against New Orleans. The Browns' starters will get limited playing time, giving backups and players on the bubble one last chance to impress coaches.
"I just know when I go in there and get the ball, I have to make something happen,'' Suggs said. "It could be make or break, I don't know. I just look at it as playing ball.''
The Bears' plan is to get out of their fourth preseason game healthy. Last week, defensive end Alex Brown dislocated his right shoulder on the second play of a 23-16 loss to the Phoenix Cardinals.
Brown will sit out, along with running back Cedric Benson, also nursing a shoulder injury.
Chicago's starting offense has had its own aches and pains, failing to score a touchdown so far. Quarterback Rex Grossman isn't too worried about the drought.
"Everyone's confidence is still pretty high, even though offensively we haven't scored a touchdown,'' he said. "It's coming. I know it's coming and everyone in this locker room knows it's coming. It's just a matter of going out and doing it and proving it, and time will tell.''
Despite the lack of scoring, Bears coach Lovie Smith, who still has roster decisions to make at wide receiver, defensive line and safety, has been pleased with Grossman and the first-team offense.
"We set a bar the first game and what I wanted to see from all our players - just not Rex - is improvement and I think that's what we've gotten, especially from Rex,'' he said. "He's improved from week to week. We hope to see some improvement this week and, of course, we want to be ready for Green Bay.''
Suggs says he's as ready as he can be for the next career roadblock.
After missing 23 of 48 games with a variety of injuries, he has overcome adversity before. The shock of being traded and then sent back still lingers. It's only when he's on the field that Suggs is able to clear his mind.
"It's hard not knowing what's going on, where I'm going to be next week,'' he said. "It's hard, but it's just part of the business.''
Suggs I am not crazy about, but I think the thing with the Jets was B.S. They sent him packing for a surgery he had in college when they knew they could get Barlow, but I still think the dude is an injury waiting to happen. Green, at 6' and 220lbs, has some talent, and has showed toughness in the past. He would be much better in a limited role than Stephen Davis in my opinion. I would hope that if either or both get cut, the Eagles would give them a much harder look than Stephen Davis.
Anyone else know of any RBs that may shake loose in the cuts that look like decent guys to bring in?
Buckhalter doing well in the last couple of games means they won't pick up a running back until/unless someone gets injured for an extended period of time.
Quote from: FFatPatt on August 31, 2006, 09:54:13 AM
Buckhalter doing well in the last couple of games means they won't pick up a running back and Buckhalter will get injured in the first game of the season and they'll be screwed at running back for an extended period of time.
Fixed.
You may be right, but oh well.
Quote
Giants | Emmons on the bubble to make the team
Wed, 30 Aug 2006 18:58:35 -0700
Arthur Staple, of Newsday, reports New York Giants LB Carlos Emmons is on the bubble to make the team's final roster.
Oh please oh please oh please oh please.
I wonder if they'd bring him back. I hope so. I worry about him being an injury risk.
I'd bring him back and demote Dhani. If Carlos gets hurt then we go back to the loser.
Emmons has had a tough time staying healthy, and backup LB's must play ST's.
I just don't see the Eagles making this move at the expense of a healthy Dhani (even though he isn't any good, yes) or a guy like a Dedrick Roper or Jason Short that will bust it on teams.
If Emmons in on the bubble to make the Giants roster, he must be in bad shape.
whats the prognosis of duce getting cut? i wouldnt mind getting duce, suggs, or lee.
but more than anything i just wish that buck and westbrook can remain healthy all season so we dont need to worry about a 3rd RB, who should be moats i believe. buck has looked damn good in the pre season. i pray he holds up. if westbrook and buck stay healthy and u add a lil moats we have very talented grp suddenly.
Quote from: Magical_Retard on August 31, 2006, 03:23:23 PM
whats the prognosis of duce getting cut? i wouldnt mind getting duce, suggs, or lee.
Duce is done. I'd rather have Mahe. Not kidding.
And aren't "suggs" and "lee" the same person?
yeah, watching Staley run the ball the last preseason game was very sad.
I would say he is one more carry away from putting tennis balls on the legs of a walker.
Some players just fit in a system. Just like Trotter, maybe Emmons comes back and returns to form.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on August 31, 2006, 03:48:29 PM
Some players just fit in a system. Just like Trotter, maybe Emmons comes back and returns to form.
Carlos turns 33 on Monday and has been OK when healthy for the Giants. They simply wouldn't cut him if he had anything left in the tank.
Trotter turns 30 on January 20, btw.
why dont we bring back all the former eagles. we love em so.
Quote from: MURP on August 31, 2006, 11:12:16 AM
If Emmons in on the bubble to make the Giants roster, he must be in bad shape.
Maybe he is going to get cut since he probably won't start, he would be an expensive backup. Plus they already have a lot of money tied up in that position with Pierce and Arrington.
any ideas on quality RBs or OLBs that might be getting cut?
is it just me or are people getting way to excited about buck last game..and not because he didnt get hurt but because many people actually thinks he looked great...he had one impressive run and the rest of the time he looked good for a guy with two steve austin knees
people act like all he has to do is not get hurt and everything if fine...im sorry but i want more than that...i want him to acutally be able to still play the game at a high level
It's not what we think that matters. It's what the coaching staff can point to in order to justify going pass-wacky.