QuoteEnglish only at Philly cheesesteak joint
By PATRICK WALTERS, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
PHILADELPHIA - Bistec con queso? Not at Geno's Steaks.
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An English-only ordering policy has thrust one of Philadelphia's best-known cheesesteak joints into the national immigration debate.
Situated in a South Philadelphia immigrant neighborhood, Geno's — which together with its chief rival, Pat's King of Steaks, forms the epicenter of an area described as "ground zero for cheesesteaks" — has posted small signs telling customers, "This Is AMERICA: WHEN ORDERING `SPEAK ENGLISH.'"
"They don't know how lucky they are. All we're asking them to do is learn the English language," said Geno's owner Joseph Vento, 66. "We're out to help these people, but they've got to help themselves, too."
Vento, whose grandparents struggled to learn English after immigrating from Sicily in the 1920s, said he posted the sign about six months ago amid concerns over immigration reform and the increasing number of customers who could not order in English when they wanted Philly's gooey, greasy specialty — fried steak, sliced or chopped, in a long roll, with cheese and fried onions.
Of course, it's not as if native Philadelphians speak the King's English either. A Philadelphian might order a cheesesteak by saying something like, "Yo, gimme a cheesesteak wit, will youse?" ("Wit," or "with," means with fried onions.) To which the counterman might reply: "Youse want fries widdat?"
The traditionally Italian community near Geno's has become more diverse over the decades. Immigrants from Asia and Latin America have moved in, joining longtime residents and young professionals seeking reasonably priced rowhouses. In the past 10 years, an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Mexican immigrants — many of them here illegally, community leaders say — have settled in South Philly.
Vento said his staff is glad to help non-native speakers order in English and has never turned someone away because of a language barrier.
But the policy has "really upset a lot of a people," said Brad Baldia of Day Without An Immigrant, a coalition of immigrant groups. "For some people, I think we're just going to say, `Le gusta Pat's.'"
Juntos, a Hispanic neighborhood organization, said it plans to send people to Geno's to try to order in Spanish and may pursue court action, depending on what happens.
"His grandparents encountered the same racism and the same xenophobia," said Peter Bloom, the group's director. "Why would he begin that process over again?"
Vento said he has gotten plenty of criticism and threats. One person told him they hoped one his many neon signs flames out and burns the place down, he said. But he said he plans to hold his ground.
Customers placing orders on a recent morning seemed unfazed.
Angelica Marquez, 22 and originally from Puerto Rico, ordered in well-spoken English, but said some of her relatives struggle with the language. "They always come and just say `cheesesteak,'" Marquez said, adding that the policy "bothers her some" but not enough to keep her away.
When a non-English speaking customer showed up at the window a short time later, a clerk patiently coached him through the process. Eventually, both said "cheesesteak."
Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells "freedom fries" to protest France's opposition to the
Iraq war. He rails against Mumia Abu-Jamal, the black man who was convicted of killing police Officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981 and has become a cause celebre among some death penalty opponents. Memorials to Faulkner are posted at his shop.
Those who market the city, often using images of Geno's and other famous steak shops, are watching with concern.
"I certainly wouldn't want a national audience to think it represented all of the wonderful cheesesteak makers in the whole city," said Meryl Levitz, president and chief executive of the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corp. "This isn't representative of the Philadelphia attitude."
Competitors are seizing on the controversy.
Tony Luke's issued a statement saying it welcomes all customers "whether or not they speak a `wit' of English."
And a manager at Pat's, Kathy Smith, said of Geno's English-only policy: "That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life. I'd rather listen to the Spanish than the foul language of the college students."
:-D
welcome to tuesday
I think its rude if a foreigner is here visiting for a week or two, otherwise I agree with the sign. Why are we as an English speaking country forced to learn different languages to fit in, when it should be the other way around.
i am having a hard time figuring out if this is new thread worthy, or just a random musing
random musing currently
news earlier in the week
own thread never
¿Qué?
isn't Pat's on the other side of the Mumia thing?
sto divertendosi che calcolo fuori se questo è nuovo filetto degno, o appena un musing casuale
ich habe eine harte Zeit eine gelegentliche Überlegung heraus, wenn dieses das neue angemessene Gewinde ist, oder gerade darstellend
Quote from: Wingspan on June 08, 2006, 05:04:21 PM
sto divertendosi che calcolo fuori se questo è nuovo filetto degno, o appena un musing casuale
In English?
D motherfarger Deeeeee!!!
English mother farger....do you speak it?
SAY WHAT AGAIN!
I farging hate the french.
Quote
Juntos, a Hispanic neighborhood organization, said it plans to send people to Geno's to try to order in Spanish and may pursue court action, depending on what happens.
LMAO at the protest.
I think its rude if a foreigner is here visiting for a week or two, otherwise I agree with the sign. Why are we as an English speaking country forced to learn different languages to fit in, when it should be the other way around.[/b]
I completely agree, but throwing a sign up to broadcast it puts shame to the name--brave but foolish if you ask me. Society is a little different since 1920 from when Ventos grandparents were forced to learn the language.
QuoteOf course, it's not as if native Philadelphians speak the King's English either. A Philadelphian might order a cheesesteak by saying something like, "Yo, gimme a cheesesteak wit, will youse?" ("Wit," or "with," means with fried onions.) To which the counterman might reply: "Youse want fries widdat?"
insulting....if it wasn't true.
dago...garlic breath....guinea....pizza slangin....spaghetti bendin...vic damone....perry como....luciano pavarotti....sole mio....non singin motherfarger
Quote from: SD_Eagle on June 08, 2006, 05:00:52 PM
I think its rude if a foreigner is here visiting for a week or two, otherwise I agree with the sign. Why are we as an English speaking country forced to learn different languages to fit in, when it should be the other way around.
you do realize that most organized school systems around the world teach children to speak 2 languages from their equivilant to 1st grade? making it so there is a much higher percentage around the globe that is bi-lingual as opposed to the US, who normally find it beneath them to learn a second language, and instead that everyone else learn english.
the US is the only country that thinks its too hard for the precious children.
i for one wish we taught 2 languages in our schools....
That kind of sign just tells tourists: "We're jerks. Don't eat here." Good for them. Foreigners visiting Philly who don't speak English will be just as happy going to Pat's, I'm sure.
It's like the confederate flag, in a way. Go ahead..fly it. Proudly proclaim your ignorance and intolerance. It helps the rest of us know to keep away.
Quote from: Wingspan on June 08, 2006, 05:15:36 PM
you do realize that most organized school systems around the world teach children to speak 2 languages from their equivilant to 1st grade?
That isn't done because the rest of world is any better or smarter. It's done because the rest of the world recognizes that if you want to get anywhere outside of your own backyard, you need to learn English. Those who speak English as a first language (and who have a bigger backyard) don't have that same need.
Quote from: Wingspan on June 08, 2006, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on June 08, 2006, 05:00:52 PM
I think its rude if a foreigner is here visiting for a week or two, otherwise I agree with the sign. Why are we as an English speaking country forced to learn different languages to fit in, when it should be the other way around.
you do realize that most organized school systems around the world teach children to speak 2 languages from their equivilant to 1st grade? making it so there is a much higher percentage around the globe that is bi-lingual as opposed to the US, who normally find it beneath them to learn a second language, and instead that everyone else learn english.
the US is the only country that thinks its too hard for the precious children.
i for one wish we taught 2 languages in our schools....
That's great and I'm all for learning a different language, but why is it alright that in 10-20 years I'm going to be forced to speak Spanish to fit in in my own country? If I moved to Mexico or any other foreign country I'd learn their language.
Quote from: Diomedes on June 08, 2006, 05:21:29 PM
That kind of sign just tells tourists: "We're jerks. Don't eat here." Good for them. Foreigners visiting Philly who don't speak English will be just as happy going to Pat's, I'm sure.
It's like the confederate flag, in a way. Go ahead..fly it. Proudly proclaim your ignorance and intolerance. It helps the rest of us know to keep away.
Please, move to France you treasonous bastich.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on June 08, 2006, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on June 08, 2006, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on June 08, 2006, 05:00:52 PM
I think its rude if a foreigner is here visiting for a week or two, otherwise I agree with the sign. Why are we as an English speaking country forced to learn different languages to fit in, when it should be the other way around.
you do realize that most organized school systems around the world teach children to speak 2 languages from their equivilant to 1st grade? making it so there is a much higher percentage around the globe that is bi-lingual as opposed to the US, who normally find it beneath them to learn a second language, and instead that everyone else learn english.
the US is the only country that thinks its too hard for the precious children.
i for one wish we taught 2 languages in our schools....
That's great and I'm all for learning a different language, but why is it alright that in 10-20 years I'm going to be forced to speak Spanish to fit in in my own country? If I moved to Mexico or any other foreign country I'd learn their language.
i really seriously doubt that.
Quote from: Wingspan on June 08, 2006, 06:32:47 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on June 08, 2006, 05:47:24 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on June 08, 2006, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on June 08, 2006, 05:00:52 PM
I think its rude if a foreigner is here visiting for a week or two, otherwise I agree with the sign. Why are we as an English speaking country forced to learn different languages to fit in, when it should be the other way around.
you do realize that most organized school systems around the world teach children to speak 2 languages from their equivilant to 1st grade? making it so there is a much higher percentage around the globe that is bi-lingual as opposed to the US, who normally find it beneath them to learn a second language, and instead that everyone else learn english.
the US is the only country that thinks its too hard for the precious children.
i for one wish we taught 2 languages in our schools....
That's great and I'm all for learning a different language, but why is it alright that in 10-20 years I'm going to be forced to speak Spanish to fit in in my own country? If I moved to Mexico or any other foreign country I'd learn their language.
i really seriously doubt that.
Just don't live in Miami, and you should be alright.
Quote from: The Waco Kid on June 08, 2006, 06:01:53 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on June 08, 2006, 05:21:29 PM
That kind of sign just tells tourists: "We're jerks. Don't eat here." Good for them. Foreigners visiting Philly who don't speak English will be just as happy going to Pat's, I'm sure.
It's like the confederate flag, in a way. Go ahead..fly it. Proudly proclaim your ignorance and intolerance. It helps the rest of us know to keep away.
Please, move to France you treasonous bastich.
Apparently you don't understand the meaning of treason.
Ehhhem. Excuse me.
Quote from: mussa on June 08, 2006, 04:38:38 PM
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1534379
learn it or no whiz with for you!
For the record I think English should be the offical language. If you don't learn it, then well you may miss out and no cheese steak for you. Pats is better anyway.
Quote from: The Waco Kid on June 08, 2006, 06:01:53 PMPlease, move to France you treasonous bastich.
France sucks. I prefer Spain.
Go farg your dead mother, pig.
Quote from: mussa on June 08, 2006, 07:40:12 PM
Ehhhem. Excuse me.
Quote from: mussa on June 08, 2006, 04:38:38 PM
http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1534379
learn it or no whiz with for you!
For the record I think English should be the offical language. If you don't learn it, then well you may miss out and no cheese steak for you. Pats is better anyway.
I prefer Pats myself.
(http://patskingofsteaks.com/index.jpg)
Both Geno's & Pat's cheesesteaks suck.
Jim's blows 'em both away but White House in A.C. is better than all of them.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 08, 2006, 08:45:07 PM
Both Geno's & Pat's cheesesteaks suck.
Jim's blows 'em both away but White House in A.C. is better than all of them.
And they deliver overnight. :drool (http://www.jimssteaks.com/indexb.htm)
guidos......
I speak very good English ova here... (Note - watch your speaker volume here.) (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/news;_ylt=AlGD33nv09i4eHQ8yqrCrExH2ocA?ch=68276&cl=499219&lang=en','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no'));)
:-D
Watch the video of Nick Berg's father in that link.
Quote from: Diomedes on June 08, 2006, 08:54:52 PM
Watch the video of Nick Berg's father in that link.
Here's an article about his comments. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060608/ap_on_re_us/al_zarqawi_berg_8)
From that article:
Quote"I think in this case justice has finally been served," said the Rev. Jerry Gladson, who had been Hensley's pastor at First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) of Marietta.
WWJD indeed.
Quote from: Diomedes on June 08, 2006, 08:58:59 PM
From that article:
Quote"I think in this case justice has finally been served," said the Rev. Jerry Gladson, who had been Hensley's pastor at First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) of Marietta.
WWJD indeed.
I saw that and, as a Christian, that statement bothered me. I know that he knew one of the men murdered by Zarqawi's group personally, but a man of God should not be speaking of blood revenge, in my opinion.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 08, 2006, 08:45:07 PM
Both Geno's & Pat's cheesesteaks suck.
Jim's blows 'em both away but White House in A.C. is better than all of them.
u should be shot in the head and drug into an alley in south philly for saying that. jim's is the cheap version and its conviently located on south street...so people assume its the real deal. its not. pats and genos are way better thna jim's. let me guess, you order your cheesesteak with american or provolone?
^^^^
real talk
jims sucks
and regardless of how IN it is to bash pats or genos as tourist traps they are both great...especially pats
steves is my personal favorite
Back in my eating/drinking days, the thing to do was to get a cheesesteak at Pat's to eat while you wait in line to get another one at Geno's. Problem solved.
Back Currently in my eating/drinking days, the thing to do was is to get a cheesesteak at Pat's to eat while you wait in line to get another one at Geno's. Problem solved.
word to gawd
:-D @ Jims. that place is a joke.
Quote from: Diomedes on June 08, 2006, 08:16:25 PM
Quote from: The Waco Kid on June 08, 2006, 06:01:53 PMPlease, move to France you treasonous bastich.
France sucks. I prefer Spain.
Go farg your dead mother, pig.
I lied, she's not dead. She wanted me to tell you that you forgot to clean your spooge off the sheets. And you left your tightie whities there.
And i'm not a pig anymore icehole, but you farg them.
Tony Lukes and Steve's for the win!
I agree that Jim's isn't all that great. They chop the meat there, and rarely chop it up good enough. Sometimes I'll find a long piece of steak that isn't cut up.
But I do get mine with american. Only way to go. Wiz is disgusting.
Quote from: mussa on June 09, 2006, 08:59:02 AM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 08, 2006, 08:45:07 PM
Both Geno's & Pat's cheesesteaks suck.
Jim's blows 'em both away but White House in A.C. is better than all of them.
u should be shot in the head and drug into an alley in south philly for saying that. jim's is the cheap version and its conviently located on south street...so people assume its the real deal. its not. pats and genos are way better thna jim's. let me guess, you order your cheesesteak with american or provolone?
Blah, blah, blah. Pat's & Geno's cheesesteaks taste like shtein. They're garbage as far as I'm concerned.
Jim's is better than both of those slop houses, IMO, although as I said, the White House in A.C. has better cheesesteaks than any of the craphole tourist traps in Philly do. Hell, A & LP in North Wildwood serves a better cheesesteak than Pat's & Geno's, for God's sake.
As for Tony Luke's their cheesesteak isn't bad. Their roast pork sammiches are worth more than any of your lives put together, however. They also make a steak, egg & cheese breakfast sammich on a hoagie roll that I would gladly kill any of you in exchange for one any day of the week.
Joe's Place in Wayne makes a killer scrapple sammich. :drool
Quote from: Geowhizzer on June 09, 2006, 07:40:28 PM
Joe's Place in Wayne makes a killer scrapple sammich. :drool
Real Pizza serves one of the greasiest, nastiest strombolis that I've ever had......and they are awesome. :drool
Quote from: Sgt PSN on June 09, 2006, 08:54:35 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on June 09, 2006, 07:40:28 PM
Joe's Place in Wayne makes a killer scrapple sammich. :drool
Real Pizza serves one of the greasiest, nastiest strombolis that I've ever had......and they are awesome. :drool
my wife used to live behind that place in the apartments.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on June 09, 2006, 08:54:35 PM
Quote from: Geowhizzer on June 09, 2006, 07:40:28 PM
Joe's Place in Wayne makes a killer scrapple sammich. :drool
Real Pizza serves one of the greasiest, nastiest strombolis that I've ever had......and they are awesome. :drool
Oh yeah... had lots of those in my college years. :yay
I'm pretty sure "wit" and "witout" aren't even English orders to begin with.
I love how every philadelphia sports message board has this cheesesteak debate every 6 months.
i love how murp is a member of everyone of this debates
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm getting hungry.
Hungry for some man seed.
Quote from: MDS on June 09, 2006, 11:40:16 PM
Hungry for some man seed.
Sorry, my tastes don't run like yours. Find Hbionic, I'm sure he'll help you out.
Thats not what you said last night in bed.
Quote from: MURP on June 09, 2006, 10:44:59 PM
I love how every philadelphia sports message board has this cheesesteak debate every 6 months.
I wonder if Baltimore fans have crab cake debates or Buffalo fans have chicken wing debates?
I doubt it. They're not sophisticated enough. Hell, you can't even get crab fries in Baltimore.
:-D
i wanna head butt people when i hear crab fries talked about
what a joke
French fries & Old Bay.
Not exactly a culinary mystery.
Still, I dig 'em. Old Bay gets used a lot at my place.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 10, 2006, 10:21:33 AM
French fries & Old Bay.
Not exactly a culinary mystery.
:-D
crab fries are great.
I saw them kick somebody back to the back of the line at Ginos because he was on a cell phone.
Awesome.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 10, 2006, 10:21:33 AM
French fries & Old Bay.
Not exactly a culinary mystery.
Still, I dig 'em. Old Bay gets used a lot at my place.
I have a friend that puts it on ice cream. She's fargin' weird, so I never asked her how she came up with that idea.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 10, 2006, 10:21:33 AM
French fries & Old Bay.
Not exactly a culinary mystery.
Exactly. But go to Inner Harbor, or even an Orioles game - in the heart of crab country - and see any of the geniuses have figured out that combination.
are you kidding me...you cant get fries around bmore without old bay on them...they just dont advertise it as its considered a given
Baltimore kicks ass and farg you if you disagree.
when i first heard of "crab fries" i was thinking they would be made of crab in some way.
the first time i had them? i was greatly dissapointed that they were just fries with old bay on them...as i have had them many times before my first chickies and petes experience.
I thought crab fries was something you could catch from Hbionics sister.
Quote from: Yeti on June 10, 2006, 09:10:26 PM
I thought crab fries was something you could catch from Hbionics sister.
:-D despite living in a cave for the past year, you havent lost it.
Quote from: Yeti on June 10, 2006, 09:10:26 PM
I thought crab fries was something you could catch from Hbionics sister.
:-D
I thought crab fries were a distant relative of lamb fries.
Speaking of steaks, I talk to a few people out of town who have never been to Philly and had a steak, and both say they think steaks in Philly are probably all hype and the steaks where they live are probably just as good.
They live in Madison, WI and LA respectively.
I've never tried a steak out of town, other than NJ, and I wouldn't try one either. I always laugh at my friends who travel and complain about cheesesteaks from other towns. When you travel to other towns you try what they specialize in. Why would I go to San Fran and get a steak?
stop calling them steaks
No.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on June 10, 2006, 11:30:09 PM
Speaking of steaks, I talk to a few people out of town who have never been to Philly and had a steak, and both say they think steaks in Philly are probably all hype and the steaks where they live are probably just as good.
They live in Madison, WI and LA respectively.
I've never tried a steak out of town, other than NJ, and I wouldn't try one either. I always laugh at my friends who travel and complain about cheesesteaks from other towns. When you travel to other towns you try what they specialize in. Why would I go to San Fran and get a steak?
Not a one in or around Chicago are anywhere near a true philly.
When I was back in Philly for a meeting, I took a bunch of my co-workers to Pat's so they could try a true Philly cheese. Most thought it was A) really expensive and B) disgusting. Midwesterners suck.
I think I may have told this story here a few years ago, but what the hell.....
When I was stationed in Seattle in the 1995/96 time frame, a couple of buddies and I grabbed something to eat at an "Applebee's" type place. One of the guys who was from N. Dakota or something ordered a "Philly Cheesesteak". When the waitress brought out the food this supposedly authentic sandwich was nothing more than a boneless steak with a slice of cheese slapped between 2 pieces of bread.
They charged him like $9.00 for it. :-D
As far as cheesesteak places from outside the Delaware Valley go, I've had a few that weren't bad and came pretty close to being authentic because they imported the meat, rolls & cheese from back home. There's a place in Daytona called Famous Philly's whose owner does that. He gets everything shipped once a week and has a pretty successful little bar & grille because of it.
LaSpada's over in Tampa does the same thing. Again, not authentic but not bad especially considering how truly awful most places make them.
On a side note Publix Supermarkets use grilled roast beef in their cheesesteaks. Good God... :'(
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 11, 2006, 11:18:39 AM
As far as cheesesteak places from outside the Delaware Valley go, I've had a few that weren't bad and came pretty close to being authentic because they imported the meat, rolls & cheese from back home. There's a place in Daytona called Famous Philly's whose owner does that. He gets everything shipped once a week and has a pretty successful little bar & grille because of it.
LaSpada's over in Tampa does the same thing. Again, not authentic but not bad especially considering how truly awful most places make them.
On a side note Publix Supermarkets use grilled roast beef in their cheesesteaks. Good God... :'(
We have a place in Ft. Myers called Philly Junction that does the same thing. Still not quite like home, but as close as I'm going to get. Too bad it's an hour from home.
And Publix sandwiches are tolerable at best... their bread is hard enough to break a tooth.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 11, 2006, 11:18:39 AM
LaSpada's over in Tampa
That's the name Dave Spadaro is going to use when he opens up the world's first authentic Mexican Cheesesteak shop. All of the grills are going to be fashioned after TO's abs and the steaks will come with guacamole, tobasco and will also be available quesedilla style.
Vermont has Philly Cheesesteaks.
Roast Beef, green peppers and mayo on a torpedo roll.
My lawsuit is pending.
Quote from: Yeti on June 11, 2006, 11:32:23 AM
Vermont has Philly Cheesesteaks.
Roast Beef, green peppers and mayo on a torpedo roll.
My lawsuit is pending.
Why you suing? Still haven't gotten the torpedo roll out of your ass? The roast beef goes in the torpedo roll. Not the torpedo roll going into your roast beef curtains.
Hey, Rome, they actually get Amoroso's in Fla? I wish we could get those in N Illinois. :'(
Quote from: Sgt PSN on June 11, 2006, 11:35:55 AM
Quote from: Yeti on June 11, 2006, 11:32:23 AM
Vermont has Philly Cheesesteaks.
Roast Beef, green peppers and mayo on a torpedo roll.
My lawsuit is pending.
Why you suing? Still haven't gotten the torpedo roll out of your ass? The roast beef goes in the torpedo roll. Not the torpedo roll going into your roast beef curtains.
I should sue you for using the term Roast Beef Curtain.
And I should sue you for that horrible, disgusting burnt cheese pizza I had at Suzie's but you don't see me crying about it. :P
Too bad you're up in the woods now because I'll be visiting my dad in Limerick next week and I'm sure you're wife misses me. I'll be sure to stop by and tell that 80 year old stripper we saw that you send your love.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on June 11, 2006, 01:13:01 PM
And I should sue you for that horrible, disgusting burnt cheese pizza I had at Suzie's but you don't see me crying about it. :P
Too bad you're up in the woods now because I'll be visiting my dad in Limerick next week and I'm sure you're wife misses me. I'll be sure to stop by and tell that 80 year old stripper we saw that you send your love.
Of course I love her. She's my Mom.
And by the way, that wasn't cheese.
:-D :-D
Quote
Geno's hit with bias complaints
The Commission on Human Relations said it would insist on removal of a "Speak English" sign at the cheesesteak shop.
By Mitch Lipka
Inquirer Staff Writer
One of South Philadelphia's biggest names in cheesesteaks is in a bit of a legal pickle for a lunch-line political statement against immigrants who don't speak English.
The city's Commission on Human Relations yesterday filed a discrimination complaint against Geno's Steaks over signs that read: "This is AMERICA ... WHEN ORDERING SPEAK ENGLISH."
Owner Joey Vento has become a mini-celebrity over the issue and has steadfastly refused to pull down the signs despite the growing legal brouhaha. His son, Geno, said his father would not comment on the matter to The Inquirer.
Reached at his home yesterday evening, the Rev. James S. Allen Sr., commission chairman, said it was incumbent on the commission to get the sign removed.
"We think it is discriminatory, and we are concerned about the image of Philadelphia," he said.
According to the complaint, which was served on Geno's yesterday afternoon, the restaurant is in violation of two sections of the city's antidiscrimination laws: denying service to someone because of his or her national origin, and having printed material making certain groups of people feel their patronage is unwelcome.
In two weeks in the media spotlight, Vento - who has done a whirlwind of local and national talk shows - has defended the sign and said he had no intention of removing it.
He has said it is an immigrant's duty to learn the language and has acknowledged that his strong feelings were directed at Mexican immigrants, whose ranks are growing in South Philadelphia.
Vento, 66, said that the sign had been up for six months without complaint until recently and that it simply spoke to the notion that people who choose to live in this country should endeavor to speak English. He has made a point of saying he had never denied anyone service regardless of language.
But Allen said that didn't matter.
"The issue is not whether anyone has been denied service, but that such a sign discourages people from coming asking for service," he said.
Vento's son said yesterday his father would not comment on the issue to members of the print media on the advice of legal counsel.
Allen said the complaint begins a legal process that could subject Geno's to sanctions if the sign is not removed. It was not immediately clear how severe a penalty Geno's could be subject to if the complaint is found to be valid and an order to remove the sign is ignored. Rachel Lawton, acting executive director of the commission, did not return repeated calls seeking clarification and comment.
An investigation will begin, Allen said, and Vento will be afforded an opportunity to respond to the complaint. Then the two sides are supposed to get together to resolve their differences.
If the issue is not resolved, Allen said, a public hearing will be scheduled. The process, he said, could continue beyond that and has no certain time parameters.
"It depends on what his response is," Allen said.
The American Civil Liberties Union said that Vento had a right to express his opinions, regardless of how offensive they might be, but that his particular message might cross the line because of specific laws intended to make so-called public accommodations available to everyone.
Public opinion on both the Geno's episode and the larger issue of immigrants speaking the language of the land has been split. The Pew Hispanic Center last week drew attention to a poll that showed a large majority of immigrant Hispanics want to learn English.
City Councilman Jim Kenney said it was time for Vento to back down. He asked the cheesesteak wiz to take down the sign before the matter escalated.
"I asked for consideration, and the consideration was rebuffed," Kenney said yesterday. "I just think it's mean-spirited and divisive, and it's not good for the city's image."
It'll be a sad day if the gubment makes 'em take that sign down.
I think the guy is a bonehead, myself, but he has every right to post a sign like that. He's not discriminating against anyone by posting it. He's simply requesting that people use English when ordering. Big f'ing deal.
PC fargtards in this country need to get over themselves already.
hes only hurting himself.....not just by losing his non english speaking customer base but by losing people like me who will never spend another dime at his store again...i implore him to keep it up
He's obviously not losing sleep over that, IGY. So you're both happy.
I have to think that the only non-English-speaking people he's losing are the ones who refuse to learn English.
if they don't speak english they can't read the sign anyway
He's obviously not losing sleep over that, IGY
so predictable...i was wondering how fast that cliche would pop up
doesnt matter what customers hes losing hes losing customers and as a business owner hes hurting himself and is idiotic....are enough people not gonna go there to put him under probably not...but a significant amount of people have called wip and written the cities papers since this all broke saying how much of an ass he is and that they will no longer frequent his store...so its clearly going to cost him money....
i guess he derservs some credit for sticking to his beliefs (whatever they are)...but that doesnt change the fact that hes a neanderthal who deserves whatever he gets
Quote from: ice grillin you on June 13, 2006, 03:12:06 PM
He's obviously not losing sleep over that, IGY
so predictable...i was wondering how fast that cliche would pop up
doesnt matter what customers hes losing hes losing customers and as a business owner hes hurting himself and is idiotic....are enough people not gonna go there to put him under probably not...but a significant amount of people have called wip and written the cities papers since this all broke saying how much of an ass he is and that they will no longer frequent his store...so its clearly going to cost him money....
i guess he derservs some credit for sticking to his beliefs (whatever they are)...but that doesnt change the fact that hes a neanderthal who deserves whatever he gets
yeah, but two things...
1) He's selling cheesesteaks
2) He's selling cheesesteaks in philadelphia
stalin and musolini could be chopping onions while dipping infants feet into the deep fryer and their fatass fathers will still be lining up at 2am to eat.
Quote from: ice grillin you on June 13, 2006, 03:12:06 PM
He's obviously not losing sleep over that, IGY
so predictable...i was wondering how fast that cliche would pop up
how about "there is no such thing as bad publicity."
his business has doubled since this became a news story...awesome.
Just ate a bag of Herr's "Philly Cheesesteak" flavored chips. Meh.
his business has doubled since this became a news story...awesome
if thats even true and i dont believe it is...whats he gonna say that hes lost money...then its a small short term bump due to rubber neckers...he will lose in the long run...tho as mentioned it surely wont be business threatening
their really is no denying it....as a business owner of any establishment, you dont put discrimmatory remarks on your window to showcase. Its completely assinine, and he will most likely have protestors out there left and right for as long as that sign is up.
Ha...If I was Geno, I would burn that puppy down and use those remarks and all the surroundings as an alibi when questioned
It's a cheeseteak shop in Philly. Does anyone who frequents the place really give a shtein if that sign stays up there?
I seriously doubt it.
Sure, he might get a few rainbow coalitioners down there protesting but those people bring the cameras with them and since he's already stated that he's not taking it down, I'd be willing to bet that he'd welcome them with open arms. If I were him, I'd offer them free cheesesteaks on camera.
:-D
(http://www.hollyeats.com/images/Philadelphia/Chinks-Bldg.jpg)
I wonder if Chink's owners are sweating any of this mess?
Philadelphians have no class.
It's a cheeseteak shop in Philly. Does anyone who frequents the place really give a shtein if that sign stays up there?
Im sure you could find alot offended by that Rome, especially being that Philadelphia is a major tourist attraction and that number is rising. As an owner, you just dont say to yourself, "F-it, I got enough regulars--who cares about them"...its foolish and makes bad business sense...bottom line. When something becomes national news--especially of a racist nature, your gonna have problems
Except it's not racist.
Biased? Sure. I'll give you that. He's biased towards English-speaking customers. He's stated numerous times that customers will not be turned away if they can't speak English when ordering.
Again, I think the guy is a horse's ass. I also think that he has every right to post that sign because it's not offensive to anyone in particular. Is it stupid? Hell, yeah... it's stupid. Should he take it down? I would, but then again, I wouldn't have posted it in the first place.
BTW: We've all been to cheeseteak shops all over Philly. Most of the people who work the windows are rude as hell. If you don't get the order right, they roll their farging eyes at you and make an idiotic comment in your direction. So what's the big deal about something like this? It's just more of the same as I see it.
This does not rate six pages plus. Who farging cares?
Wake me up when the DMV turns people away for not speaking English, or when you can't get a public defendant because you don't speak English.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 13, 2006, 08:04:05 PM
I also think that he has every right to post that sign because it's not offensive to anyone in particular.
Then what is all this fuss about?
Quote from: EagleFeva on June 13, 2006, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 13, 2006, 08:04:05 PM
I also think that he has every right to post that sign because it's not offensive to anyone in particular.
Then what is all this fuss about?
You got me. I think the whole "English as our national langauge" thing is idiotic.
If a guy posts a sign targeting a specific racial or ethnic group, then yeah, he's breaking the law. But if he simply asking people to f'ing speak English when ordering, who is that harming specifically?
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 13, 2006, 08:44:15 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on June 13, 2006, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 13, 2006, 08:04:05 PM
I also think that he has every right to post that sign because it's not offensive to anyone in particular.
Then what is all this fuss about?
You got me. I think the whole "English as our national langauge" thing is idiotic.
If a guy posts a sign targeting a specific racial or ethnic group, then yeah, he's breaking the law. But if he simply asking people to f'ing speak English when ordering, who is that harming specifically?
I took some coworkers there about a year ago & I warned this one girl ahead of time not to be indecisive & ask too many questions. I said know what you want ahead of time, speak it clearly & move on. Soon as she got up, she starting asking about what she can get on her cheesesteak & I thought he was going to stab her in the eye & make her leave w/o food.
Quote from: Diomedes on June 13, 2006, 08:15:03 PM
Wake me up when the DMV turns people away for not speaking English, or when you can't get a public defendant because you don't speak English.
I think having trouble with English is a requirement for
a job at the DMV.
Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 13, 2006, 07:40:27 PM
It's a cheeseteak shop in Philly. Does anyone who frequents the place really give a shtein if that sign stays up there?
The funny thing is that the sign has been there for six months, and nobody's really gotten a rise out of it.
And you can barely see the goddamn thing anyways!
Plus, how hard is it to say cheesesteak, fries ,coke? Three words. Tourists can manage to say that. None of them are going there to order anything but a famous Philadelphia cheesesteak. Not complicated.
Also,
Romey, there was a thing in the Inky several months back where some asian folk were pissed about the Chinks name. It never amounted to anything though.