maybe some positive news from McDougle, finally.
article (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/14581764.htm)
QuoteTrue story: McDougle looking good
By LES BOWEN
bowenl@phillynews.com
The scar runs vertically down Jerome McDougle's stomach, his navel turning it into a sort of jagged exclamation point. The whole thing is framed by a tattoo, one word on each side of the incision: TRUE STORY. :-D
"You go through something like that, life-changing, it's something besides the scar to remind me of what I went through,'' McDougle said over the weekend, as he participated in the Eagles' first minicamp of 2006. "Everybody loves a story, everybody has a story... You tell people what you've been through, and they're like, 'For real?' 'Yeah, true story. For real.' ''
The true story is the one of how McDougle, a defensive end the Eagles traded up to draft 15th overall in 2003, was poised to start heading into the 2005 training camp, after two disappointing, injury-marred seasons. The night before he was scheduled to travel from his Florida home to Lehigh, McDougle was shot in the stomach in an apparent robbery attempt in Miami. He recovered, but on Oct. 17 - the day he was supposed to return to practice - McDougle instead underwent emergency surgery for a hernia caused by scar tissue and adhesions. His season was over. A lot of people wondered if his career was, too.
The Eagles certainly didn't go into their offseason counting on McDougle. Their top free-agent signing was defensive end Darren Howard, from New Orleans. Howard has a 6-year, $30.5 million contract. Jevon Kearse, on the other side, is entering the third year of his 8-year deal, worth more than $60 million. They are the starters this year, no matter what McDougle does. Trent Cole, last year's fifth-round rookie surprise, also figures to get some playing time.
But McDougle, 27, listed at 6-2, 264, seems to be in the best shape of his career. He says he has regained all the weight he lost after being shot; when he was trying to return last season, he often looked more like a safety or a linebacker who somehow had wandered into the row of defensive-line locker stalls.
Saturday, when McDougle practiced for the first time since last year's minicamps, Eagles coach Andy Reid felt he stood out.
"I thought Jerome looked good today,'' Reid said. "It looks like he was getting off the ball really quickly. He looked very explosive out there. It was good to see.''
Yesterday, defensive coordinator Jim Johnson endorsed that view.
"So far, right now, he's one of the bright spots in minicamp,'' Johnson said. "He looks like the McDougle we talked about [when trading up to draft him]. He looks quick, he's a very smart football player... He just looks like a different person. If we get him on the field, that's a big improvement for us, no question... He's playing like we thought he would play.''
For McDougle, the focus isn't yet on what might happen in September or October, what kind of role will be available. For now, practicing is an accomplishment.
"It feels good to be back in the swing of things. It feels real good, after everything I've been through, to get back out there and get that behind me,'' McDougle said.
Johnson reiterated yesterday that the key to his defensive schemes is the line, which last year wasn't quick enough, tough enough or deep enough. The Eagles' total of 29 sacks was their lowest since 1978. They've added Howard and first-round rookie defensive tackle Brodrick Bunkley. There is a new D-line coach, Pete Jenkins, who is said to be a teacher in the mold of offensive line coach Juan Castillo.
Johnson said he believes the Birds need to move Kearse around more, to make it harder to devise blocking schemes that will neutralize him. He said he was reluctant to do that much last season, since flipping Kearse often would have meant moving Cole, a rookie who was just learning the complex defense.
"It's my job and Pete Jenkins' job to get [Kearse] moving around a bit more and give him more opportunities... He's too good of a football player not to take advantage of his ability,'' Johnson said.
Johnson clearly expects his line to lead his defense back to respectability. "It all comes down to our front,'' he said.
Johnson said he definitely expects a better pass rush.
"We've seen Howard play and we know he's a good pass rusher,'' Johnson said. "That's an upgrade right there. We think that Jevon is a guy who will still get double-digit sacks. He should, and he knows that... We have McDoug-le coming back and we have Juqua Thomas and Trent Cole... I see a lot of good quickness. We're just talking, they have to prove that on the field. But right now, we have enough good bodies out there... there is no reason we should expect that we won't get back to pressuring the quarterback.''
If McDougle can manage to stay healthy and have an impact than I don't see a deeper DE rotation in the league with maybe the Giants being an exception.
So if I understand this correctly we are rooting for a dude who can't feel his foot and only played one season, a dude who dislocated his hip like a nursing home resident and only played in a couple of games and a dude recovering from a gunshot wound who has been the biggest first round dissapointment for this team over the past 7 years?
If any of these players are going to be counted on to contribute this team is in for a long farging season.
well...when you say it, it seems so negative.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 10:42:49 AM
So if I understand this correctly we are rooting for a dude who can't feel his foot and only played one season, a dude who dislocated his hip like a nursing home resident and only played in a couple of games and a dude recovering from a gunshot wound who has been the biggest first round dissapointment for this team over the past 7 years?
If any of these players are going to be counted on to contribute this team is in for a long farging season.
If he's healthy and looks good then where's the problem?
QuoteBut McDougle, 27, listed at 6-2, 264, seems to be in the best shape of his career. He says he has regained all the weight he lost after being shot; when he was trying to return last season, he often looked more like a safety or a linebacker who somehow had wandered into the row of defensive-line locker stalls.
Saturday, when McDougle practiced for the first time since last year's minicamps, Eagles coach Andy Reid felt he stood out.
the good thing is they dont need mcdougle...in fact i wouldnt be surprised to see him cut...anything they get from him is gravy
i cant believe hell be 28 before the end of the season
He'll make the team. If anyone gets cut it's Juqua.
The problem, SD, is that this team has these guys competing for spots in the first place. JR Reed can't feel his goddamned foot! But our beloved Eagles said, "Hey, maybe we should invite this guy to try out for our team. We'll give everyone the warm and fuzzies and take practice reps away from someone who might actually have a chance to play in the league." It's ridiculous. McDougle has run into some bad luck, no question. But christ, the dude is turning 28 and has never done shtein in the NFL. Time to cut bait.
you'd be foolish to cut depth...especially with the Eagles injury history on the DL year in and year out...knock on wood
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 10:55:50 AM
The problem, SD, is that this team has these guys competing for spots in the first place.
I fail to see a problem with anyone competing at camp. If they are still injured or suck they wont make the team. If they are past the injuries and are better than the players they are competing against then they make the team and hopefully contribute. It's a win/win either way.
JR Reed can't feel his goddamned foot!
This comment seriously made me fall off my chair
You left our favorite Brokeknee Runningback off your list of fuzzy wuzzies, Jerk.
I'm not feeling great about McDougle. He is depth, though. So what the hell. We'll see.
Quote from: Diomedes on May 15, 2006, 11:03:42 AM
You left our favorite Brokeknee Runningback off your list of fuzzy wuzzies, Jerk.
Jesus, you're right. How could I forget the people's running back champ? Mister "I can't block or catch, but I had a good first half against the Rams 4 years ago before destroying both of my knees so I should definitely be invited to a professional football team's camp" himself. Ugh. Sometimes I think this team is trying to farging drive me to drink. More.
Quote from: MURP on May 15, 2006, 11:01:27 AMI fail to see a problem with anyone competing at camp. If they are still injured or suck they wont make the team. If they are past the injuries and are better than the players they are competing against then they make the team and hopefully contribute. It's a win/win either way.
Spots at camp may seem unlimited, but time is not. You could have three healthy guys at camp instead of three charity cases. It's nice that the Eagles will string along the miracle comebacks, but I'd rather they were spending their scarce attention looking at healthy athletes.
edit: to be fair, only Buck and Reed are charity cases. McDougle might actually be able to play...no one knows yet.
westbrook isnt making the cover of means health anytime soon either...and pinky is one cut away from blowin up his achilles
i love means health...great articles in there
Not nearly as good as it's rival publication, "Maneans Health".
:-D
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 10:42:49 AM
So if I understand this correctly we are rooting for a dude who can't feel his foot and only played one season, a dude who dislocated his hip like a nursing home resident and only played in a couple of games and a dude recovering from a gunshot wound who has been the biggest first round dissapointment for this team over the past 7 years?
If any of these players are going to be counted on to contribute this team is in for a long farging season.
That's just the thing. None of these guys... including Buck, who you didn't mention... is going to be relied on for jack. Each of them will be given the chance to compete for a spot... and in each casae, we've got adequate options. In Reed's case... we've still got Perry and Bloom to handle kickoffs. We all know Tapeh won't be in at FB unless he looks a lot better than Parry (which ain't that hard) and he stands out above Davis who they seem to love. McDougle is right where he maybe should have been all along in a position of depth on the D-line. If he doesn't cut it... then Thomas will occupy the 4th DE spot.
Like so many others have said... anything we get from any of these guys is a bonus... we don't NEED any of them to do anything special. If they beat out their teammates, cool... if not, no biggie.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 11:08:21 AM
Quote from: Diomedes on May 15, 2006, 11:03:42 AM
You left our favorite Brokeknee Runningback off your list of fuzzy wuzzies, Jerk.
Jesus, you're right. How could I forget the people's running back champ? Mister "I can't block or catch, but I had a good first half against the Rams 4 years ago before destroying both of my knees so I should definitely be invited to a professional football team's camp" himself. Ugh. Sometimes I think this team is trying to farging drive me to drink. More.
Apparently, you forgot about this year:
2003 Philadelphia Eagles 15 5 126 542 4.3 64 8 4 28
That's games played (15); started (5); carries (126); yards (542); avg per carry (4.3); longest run (64); runs of 20 + yards (4); and first downs made (28).
He also caught 10 passes for 133 yards, 1 TD, had 4 catches for more than 20 yards and made 6 first downs.
He had a pretty good rookie year when he played behind Staley. Some players just have the misfortune of being injured a lot. Sadly, he seems one of those players. But if he can't shake it this year, the Eagles should cut bait. But they've always been a team to try and give a player every chance to come back--Hollis Thomas is a good example; Derrick Burgess is another one.
I love all of this rationalization.
Taking away practice reps from healthy players isn't important.
If these gimps contribute anything it's a bonus.
Buckhalter was good, once.
28 year old, injury-prone, unproductive DEs definitely need to be in camp.
Wow.
I remain skeptical. We'll see.
heh, the same people who bitch constantly about not giving Burgess a contract are whining now about past injured players.
Classic.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on May 15, 2006, 11:45:23 AM
heh, the same people who bitch constantly about not giving Burgess a contract are whining now about past injured players.
Classic.
Touche
Quote from: PhillyGirl on May 15, 2006, 11:45:23 AM
heh, the same people who bitch constantly about not giving Burgess a contract are whining now about past injured players.
Classic.
I really hope you aren't lumping me into that group since I never said one word about Burgess.
I dropped a deuce this morning that smelled exactly like curry chicken.
True story.
Quote from: phattymatty on May 15, 2006, 11:51:37 AM
I dropped a deuce this morning that smelled exactly like curry chicken.
True story.
is this really necessary? >:(
Sure it is. If he didn't, his colon would be all backed up, and he'd have to start taking Metamucil by the quart.
Haha.
But seriously, you can't blame people for being disinterested/skeptical. McDougle, for some reasons both in and beyond his control, has been a MAJOR disappointment thus far. MAJOR.
I think I'm going to play it safe and only root for the guys who are sure-fire locks to make the team.
Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on May 15, 2006, 12:00:25 PM
I think I'm going to play it safe and only root for the guys who are sure-fire locks to make the team.
Here's a safe list for you, then:
1. Reno
2. MURParry
3. Pinkston
4. Dhani
5. Koy
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 11:28:13 AM
I love all of this rationalization.
Taking away practice reps from healthy players isn't important.
If these gimps contribute anything it's a bonus.
Buckhalter was good, once.
28 year old, injury-prone, unproductive DEs definitely need to be in camp.
Wow.
Taking reps away from who? Gimme 1 worthwhile guy on the team who won't get reps because of these guys competing. Should I be pissed that because McDougle competes that Juqua Thomas might not make the team? Should I curse Reid because letting JR Reed get a shot is gonna force Mahe to work Chickie & Pete's full time? Should I worry about Josh Parry's chances because Tapeh is getting a look at FB?
C'mon man... these guys like Reed, McDougle, etc... are getting a shot to see if they can come back to where they were. If they weren't here, sure there'd be a "healthy" guy in their place... but you're kidding yourself if you think it'd be something other than just some fringe player with no shot of making the team. These "gimps" are getting shots because they still have the potential to be better than the guys that are currently occupying their respective positions.
reading some of those names above really frightens me.
Well, the fact that we're only talking about the 4th DE, the 2nd or 3rd kick returner and a FB who we'll use about 3 snaps a game should make you feel a little better. ;)
Healthy players are one practice rep from becoming injured..
*sigh*
Buckhalter
Tapeh
Reed
McDougle
Four dudes the coaches will spend time with, meaning four other dudes WON'T get that time. Four dudes whose camp will be taped and reviewed, meaning four other dudes won't. Maybe the guys who don't get a look as a result are lousy, what do I know. Maybe there's a gem in the rough amonst them. Only way to know is to look at them, and that's not going to happen because the team is busy looking at these four names.
I'd like the team to be as strong as possible, so I hope the coaches know what they're doing, and I hope all four of these guys does great. But it is a fact that every minute you spend with Buckhalter is a minute you're not spending with someone else, and at some point, that fact has got to garner your attention.
Quote from: Diomedes on May 15, 2006, 01:10:32 PM
*sigh*
Buckhalter
Tapeh
Reed
McDougle
Four dudes the coaches will spend time with, meaning four other dudes WON'T get that time. Four dudes whose camp will be taped and reviewed, meaning four other dudes won't. Maybe the guys who don't get a look as a result are lousy, what do I know. Maybe there's a gem in the rough amonst them. Only way to know is to look at them, and that's not going to happen because the team is busy looking at these four names.
I'd like the team to be as strong as possible, so I hope the coaches know what they're doing, and I hope all four of these guys does great. But it is a fact that every minute you spend with Buckhalter is a minute you're not spending with someone else, and at some point, that fact has got to garner your attention.
Aside from KR (Reed), there's already depth at RB and DE and no question who the starters are going to be, so who are they really taking coaching time away from? Juqua Thomas? Josh Parry? Bruce Perry? Its not like there's some young guy there who's going to suffer over this. If any of them make the team they'll be 3rd on the depth chart.
We know who the RBs will be. Westbrook, Moats, Perry. Having Buckhalter in camp doesn't change that even if he manages to stay healthy.
You guys just keep telling yourselves that Mahe won't be on this team. Perry is in very real danger of being the more talented and potentially productive player and still getting the axe.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 01:55:31 PM
Aside from KR (Reed), there's already depth at RB and DE and no question who the starters are going to be, so who are they really taking coaching time away from? Juqua Thomas? Josh Parry? Bruce Perry? Its not like there's some young guy there who's going to suffer over this. If any of them make the team they'll be 3rd on the depth chart.
Dio is spot on. You don't think that UDFA FB could use some extra looks/coaching in camp? You don't think Perry could use the extra between the tackles reps that Buckhalter will be eating up? You guys are something else.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:11:17 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 01:55:31 PM
Aside from KR (Reed), there's already depth at RB and DE and no question who the starters are going to be, so who are they really taking coaching time away from? Juqua Thomas? Josh Parry? Bruce Perry? Its not like there's some young guy there who's going to suffer over this. If any of them make the team they'll be 3rd on the depth chart.
Dio is spot on. You don't think that UDFA FB could use some extra looks/coaching in camp? You don't think Perry could use the extra between the tackles reps that Buckhalter will be eating up? You guys are something else.
during shorts and helmets non contract drills...how will that really determine anything?
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:11:17 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 01:55:31 PM
Aside from KR (Reed), there's already depth at RB and DE and no question who the starters are going to be, so who are they really taking coaching time away from? Juqua Thomas? Josh Parry? Bruce Perry? Its not like there's some young guy there who's going to suffer over this. If any of them make the team they'll be 3rd on the depth chart.
Dio is spot on. You don't think that UDFA FB could use some extra looks/coaching in camp? You don't think Perry could use the extra between the tackles reps that Buckhalter will be eating up? You guys are something else.
No, if it weren't Buck it'd be someone else. Every player in camp is under a microscope, they'll all get a long look and plenty of reps before the coaching staff can make their decision. Competition is a good thing.
As GF already pointed out, Buckhalter isn't in competition for anything. So why even have him here? Charity case. Period.
I just cant understand why a former first round pick who the coaches feel is looking good is getting time at mini camp when Darrell Lee could be getting the reps he needs to make the Arena league. gosh darn it.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:16:46 PM
As GF already pointed out, Buckhalter isn't in competition for anything. So why even have him here? Charity case. Period.
So we're just going to hand over the 3rd RB spot to Perry?
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:16:46 PM
As GF already pointed out, Buckhalter isn't in competition for anything. So why even have him here? Charity case. Period.
So we're just going to hand over the 3rd RB spot to Perry?
No, as I said, that already belongs to Mahe. But if Perry could get a few more reps it would help his campaign to force the coaches to finally kick that bum to the curb.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:07:57 PM
You guys just keep telling yourselves that Mahe won't be on this team. Perry is in very real danger of being the more talented and potentially productive player and still getting the axe.
If Mahe makes the final 53, I'll, I'lll... well, do nothing.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:23:14 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 02:16:46 PM
As GF already pointed out, Buckhalter isn't in competition for anything. So why even have him here? Charity case. Period.
So we're just going to hand over the 3rd RB spot to Perry?
No, as I said, that already belongs to Mahe. But if Perry could get a few more reps it would help his campaign to force the coaches to finally kick that bum to the curb.
You're assuming too much, the 3rd RB spot does not belong to Mahe, he's going to have to earn it. Perry's a better RB and if he can field punts even half way decent then Mahe is jobless. Still, I like having competition there at this point, if Buck looks like shtein in these mini camps then you know his ass will be cut.
Quote from: MURP on May 15, 2006, 02:19:02 PM
I just cant understand why a former first round pick who the coaches feel is looking good is getting time at mini camp when Darrell Lee could be getting the reps he needs to make the Arena league. gosh darn it.
Exactly, MURP.
I'm wondering while reading this how a former first round draft pick which the coaching staff felt last Summer was going to step up and be a productive starter last year
but was then shot is now lumped in as a charity case with Buckhalter and JR Reed. The man was shot, he didn't blow his knee out or sever the main nerve in his leg...how does he have less potential than he did last Summer? Say what you will about charity cases, but I don't believe McDougle belongs in that grouping just yet.
Jimmy Smith was a bit star-crossed early in his career and people gave up on him...he seemed to pick up a little later on, from what I recall.
Sadly, I would give better than even odds that--barring injury--Reno is on the roster for opening day.
agree....he has a legit shot. Immediate gratification is the gold standard here in Philly....you didnt know that?
Immediate gratification is the gold standard here in Philly
yeah right because the championship standard is so high here....i dont think expecting immediate or close to it production from a first round pick that you traded up for is to much to ask
the problem is not having him in camp fighting for a job...the problem is blind faith and posting quotes from the coaches saying how good he is...like reid and johnson are to be believed about anything much less mcdougle
Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 03:40:38 PM
the problem is not having him in camp fighting for a job...the problem is blind faith and posting quotes from the coaches saying how good he is...like reid and johnson are to be believed about anything much less mcdougle
Did I miss the part where they lied about something? What did they do to not take them at their word?
their lies and exagerations about the talent of the players they have are legendary...for years take a look at andys quotes on the wr's
check the talk on simoneau after they traded for him...you woulda thought they were getting jack lambert
call it coaches speak if you want...and it may be that...but it doesnt make thier comments on players any more real...they can big up mcdougle from now till traning camp...and there still will be just as much chance as him getting cut than him making the team
Well we know they'll never bash a player publicly, but you know when Andy isn't high on a player, like when asked about D'hani he replied "we need to improve in that area", thats being truthful. Maybe they overhyped Simoneau but for the first month of his first season here he was the NFC defensive player of the month and as good as advertised. No idea as to why he sucked after that.
who did you want...Tyler Brayton, Michael Haynes or Calvin Pace for DE in 2003?
a first rounder means squat now-a-days aside from the paycheck. way too many first round busts but also ones that come out of their shell after 2 years. Hey Im not saying McDougle is god--far from it, but I do believe in potential.
Buckhalter will make the team if he's healthy, which is a big if, but that's obvious.
McDougle has been a huge bust so far, but if you look at who was taken behind him at positions the Eagles usually take, I'd say it wasn't that awful of a pick.
15 Philadelphia Jerome McDougle DE Miami
16 Pittsburgh Troy Polamalu SS Southern California - don't need safety
17 Arizona Bryant Johnson WR Penn State - hasn't done much
18 Arizona Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest - has done nothing
19 Baltimore Kyle Boller QB California - next
20 Denver George Foster T Georgia - eh
21 Cleveland Jeff Faine C Notre Dame - average
22 Chicago Rex Grossman QB Florida - next
23 Buffalo Willis McGahee RB Miami - eagles won't take a RB, he was hurt anyway.
24 Indianapolis Dallas Clark TE Iowa - better than LJ, but can't blame them.
25 N.Y. Giants William Joseph DT Miami - hasn't done much.
26 San Francisco Kwame Harris T Stanford - eh
27 Kansas City Larry Johnson RB Penn State - great, but eagles don't take RBs.
28 Tennessee Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma - don't need CBs
29 Green Bay Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State - sucks 4th and 26
30 San Diego Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M - eh
31 Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha CB California - next
32 Oakland Tyler Brayton OLB Colorado - next
McDougle wasn't a bad pick in the first round compared to everyone else. That draft pretty much sucked hard.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:53:35 PM
Buckhalter will make the team if he's healthy, which is a big if, but that's obvious.
McDougle has been a huge bust so far, but if you look at who was taken behind him at positions the Eagles usually take, I'd say it wasn't that awful of a pick.
15 Philadelphia Jerome McDougle DE Miami
16 Pittsburgh Troy Polamalu SS Southern California - don't need safety
17 Arizona Bryant Johnson WR Penn State - hasn't done much
18 Arizona Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest - has done nothing
19 Baltimore Kyle Boller QB California - next
20 Denver George Foster T Georgia - eh
21 Cleveland Jeff Faine C Notre Dame - average
22 Chicago Rex Grossman QB Florida - next
23 Buffalo Willis McGahee RB Miami - eagles won't take a RB, he was hurt anyway.
24 Indianapolis Dallas Clark TE Iowa - better than LJ, but can't blame them.
25 N.Y. Giants William Joseph DT Miami - hasn't done much.
26 San Francisco Kwame Harris T Stanford - eh
27 Kansas City Larry Johnson RB Penn State - great, but eagles don't take RBs.
28 Tennessee Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma - don't need CBs
29 Green Bay Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State - sucks 4th and 26
30 San Diego Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M - eh
31 Oakland Nnamdi Asomugha CB California - next
32 Oakland Tyler Brayton OLB Colorado - next
McDougle wasn't a bad pick in the first round. That draft pretty much sucked hard.
they traded up 12 spots or so to get him.
yes, it was a bad pick. you can homertastically quantify it any way you want. it was a bad pick.
the same way that sheldon brown was a great 2nd round pick, mcdougle was a zesty first rounder.
What sucks is that we traded away another second to get him. I don't get to down on McDougle because I think he's been dealt a bad hand with injuries, but any time a guy is taken in the middle of round 1 you expect more than what he's produced. Healthy or not.
execept for 9 out of the 14 players above this pick and the few below McDougle....yes the first round was medicore, but so were alot of other 1st round drafts. Not everyone can be gold in the 1st and its proven
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 04:58:20 PM
they traded up 12 spots or so to get him.
yes, it was a bad pick. you can homertastically quantify it any way you want. it was a bad pick.
the same way that sheldon brown was a great 2nd round pick, mcdougle was a zesty first rounder.
If that's the case, then what pick in the first round wouldn't have been a bad pick? And be realistic, you know the Eagles wouldn't have taken Larry Johnson.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 04:58:20 PM
they traded up 12 spots or so to get him.
yes, it was a bad pick. you can homertastically quantify it any way you want. it was a bad pick.
the same way that sheldon brown was a great 2nd round pick, mcdougle was a zesty first rounder.
If that's the case, then what pick in the first round wouldn't have been a bad pick?
any one of them that have been able to play even marginally effectively for say...15 games...over the past 3 years. is that not a reasonable expectation of a 1st round pick you trade up over 10 spots to get?
Andy said if he didn't trade up for McDougle he would have selected L.J. Smith at their original spot. Was he worth that high of a pick? Probably not, but we still would have had 2 2nds to address other needs.
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 05:03:30 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 04:58:20 PM
they traded up 12 spots or so to get him.
yes, it was a bad pick. you can homertastically quantify it any way you want. it was a bad pick.
the same way that sheldon brown was a great 2nd round pick, mcdougle was a zesty first rounder.
If that's the case, then what pick in the first round wouldn't have been a bad pick?
any one of them that have been able to play even marginally effectively for say...15 games...over the past 3 years. is that not a reasonable expectation of a 1st round pick you trade up over 10 spots to get?
I didn't mean it wasn't a bad pick. I meant compared to the other picks it doesn't look as bad. If everyone below McDougle turned out to be studs, then yes it would have been a horrendous pick, but that isn't the case. It was a bad pick based on McDougle's performance alone, but it wasn't a dreadful pick for the simple fact that there wasn't much else available that would have done more. So you can't totally fault the Eagles for that pick IMO. They saw a player they wanted, they went up and got him. He hasn't done anything yet, but either has most players taken behind him.
Totally different from the Freddie Mitchell selection IMO.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 05:07:49 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 05:03:30 PM
Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 05:00:50 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 04:58:20 PM
they traded up 12 spots or so to get him.
yes, it was a bad pick. you can homertastically quantify it any way you want. it was a bad pick.
the same way that sheldon brown was a great 2nd round pick, mcdougle was a zesty first rounder.
If that's the case, then what pick in the first round wouldn't have been a bad pick?
any one of them that have been able to play even marginally effectively for say...15 games...over the past 3 years. is that not a reasonable expectation of a 1st round pick you trade up over 10 spots to get?
I didn't mean it wasn't a bad pick. I meant compared to the other picks it doesn't look as bad. If everyone below McDougle turned out to be studs, then yes it would have been a horrendous pick, but that isn't the case. It was a bad pick based on McDougle's performance alone, but it wasn't a dreadful pick for the simple fact that there wasn't much else available that would have done more. So you can't totally fault the Eagles for that pick IMO. They saw a player they wanted, they went up and got him. He hasn't done anything yet, but either has most players taken behind him.
Totally different from the Freddie Mitchell selection IMO.
Quoteit wasn't a bad pick.
Quotecompared to the other picks it doesn't look as bad.
QuoteIt was a bad pick based on McDougle's performance
Quotebut it wasn't a dreadful pick
:-D
do you ever listen to youself..
Yeah, because taking clips out of posts means a whole lot. ::)
I'll summarize it for you so you can understand.
Bad pick? Yes
Terrible pick? No
Could they have done better? No.
i understand you point. it's just wrong.
Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 05:14:42 PM
Could they have done better? No.
Yes, they could have. They could have stayed put at #30 and drafted Anquan Boldin or Osi Umeniyora.
If you want to get that technical, then sure every team could've done better in every single draft they've ever done. I'm talking about the realistic options of what was available compared to what we got in McDougle.
It was either going to be offensive or defensive line in that draft. Plenty of teams passed on Umeniyora.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 03:56:07 PM
Well we know they'll never bash a player publicly, but you know when Andy isn't high on a player, like when asked about D'hani he replied "we need to improve in that area", thats being truthful. Maybe they overhyped Simoneau but for the first month of his first season here he was the NFC defensive player of the month and as good as advertised. No idea as to why he sucked after that.
exactly. But some people hate this FO so much, they don't look at it objectively.
@PF/"The Thing"/Bunkley78:
Maybe your overly homertastic opinions should occasionally be tempered with some reality, though.
Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:31:03 PM
Maybe your overly homertastic opinions should occasionally be tempered with some reality, though.
What was homertastic about what I said? The Eagles never pubicly bash a player. At the same time they were saying, "We're fine with the WRs we have" they went out and got TO. They don't EVER say something negative (shtein, they couldn't even say negative about FREDDIE) about a player. So just because they say they are happy to see so and so doing well, doesn't mean that guy has a spot on the team or they are trying to hype them up.
Um, he wasn't talking to you. chill out freak show.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 05:40:01 PM
Um, he wasn't talking to you. chill out freak show.
yeah, he edited his post before I finished posting mine.
That's why we should always quote the post we're responding to, either with the actual quote function or ghetto bold.
(http://www.spatch.net/tmyk.jpg)
Or maybe you should all just cram it with walnuts.
another bad attempt at humor Dangerfield :boo
Quote from: reese125 on May 15, 2006, 06:14:58 PM
another bad attempt at humor Dangerfield :boo
Funny or not, you do a marvelous job of trying to cram yourself into RJS's cornhole.
stop yourself, you might want to reverse that statement
how about all you STFU
....RLY
Quote from: mussa on May 15, 2006, 06:24:33 PM
....RLY
I think you mean
....that is incredibly accurate.
You're welcome.
Only in Philly could innocuous May mini-camp statements be blown into a four-page pissing match.
Well done!
Philly > all
Quote from: reese125 on May 15, 2006, 06:14:58 PM
another bad attempt at humor Dangerfield
This is why bickering should not be deleted by the Anals That Be. I served this assclown his lunch earlier, but now he can pretend that he has any place to judge humor because there's no evidence of the serving he got.
Either way, Reese, along with PF/Bunkleywhatever should be summarily hurled into the sun.
Actually, this reminds me why I left in the first place. Enjoy your vermin, suckers.
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 05:40:01 PM
Um, he wasn't talking to you. chill out freak show.
i can't stop laughing at this post. who uses "freak show" anymore anyway.
i mean really, who throws a shoe?
Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 09:25:40 PM
Actually, this reminds me why I left in the first place. Enjoy your vermin, suckers.
Shut up. You love us.
Back to the subject at hand. Anyone care to comment on the fact that I think the coaches could spend their time better than looking at Correll Buckhalter and JR Reed?
Buckhalter and Reed have enormous upsides with high ceilings.
Quote from: PhillyPhaninDC on May 15, 2006, 09:58:47 PM
Buckhalter and Reed have enormous upsides with high ceilings.
Reed, maybe. Buckhalter? He's just high.
I think Terrance Carroll and Darrell Crutchfield deserve a look.
Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:31:03 PM
@PF/"The Thing"/Bunkley78:
Maybe your overly homertastic opinions should occasionally be tempered with some reality, though.
What's this reality that we are talking about? A bad draft pick is based on the following:
1. How the player turns out.
2. How the players taken after the pick turned out in relation to how your's did.
In McDougle's case, he turned out bad, but no one in the first round that we would've taken instead has done anything anyway. The Freddie Mitchell pick didn't only suck because he sucked. It sucked even worse because Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Chris Chambers were all taken after him. That is the reason people to this day dread the Freddie Mitchell selection. Not because how he turned out, but because of who was taken after him.
I understand McDougle was a bad pick because he hasn't done anything. At the same time I don't see any other first rounders there who would've done any better.
We gave up a 2nd rounder to get him. How does that not classify as "bad"?
And how about the guys who were taken after the #46 pick we could have had if he didnt trade up? I think that makes this a "bad" pick.
46 San Diego Drayton Florence CB Tuskegee
47 Kansas City Kawika Mitchell MLB South Florida
48 Buffalo Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska
49 Miami Eddie Moore OLB Tennessee
50 Carolina Bruce Nelson C Iowa
51 Denver Terry Pierce OLB Kansas State
52 Cleveland Chaun Thompson OLB West Texas A&M
53 N.Y. Jets Victor Hobson OLB Michigan
54 Arizona Anquan Boldin WR Florida State
55 Atlanta Bryan Scott FS Penn State
56 N.Y. Giants Osi Umenyiora DE Troy
57 San Francisco Anthony Adams NT Penn State
58 Indianapolis Mike Doss SS Ohio State
Yeah, but if we didn't take McDougle in the first we probably would've just stood pat and taken LJ Smith like I think it was SD who already mentioned it.
But I see your point. If we didn't give up the 2nd rounder for McDougle, maybe we could've landed a nice player in the 2nd round. But your guess is as good as mine on who we would've selected.
We can specuate all we want who we could have taken at 46, but the fact of the matter is that we would have selected someone. Maybe one of those guys who I didnt bold would have been a good player in our system. We'll never know.
Bruce Perry will not have reps taken away from him because Reno Mahe or Correll Buckhalter are in camp.
They all get a ton of reps in training camp. People who have been there can verify that they rotate players in a lot. And don't forget about the pre-season games too. The backups/scrubs/guys fighting for a look get more time than anyone.
If the Eagles didn't pay attention to what players did and didn't give them enough reps to satisfty some of you guys, how are they one of the best teams at finding and keeping UDFA players?
Who held Roderick Hood down in 2003 that kept him from making the team?
Yeah, that's right. He was a UDFA who made it because he showed he could play. If you can play, the coaches will find you and find a spot for you.
5 pages on a 3rd RB, 4th DE, and a 6th WR, and you still managed to fit in plenty of retarded comments, reese being completely oblivious to the world around him, and Russ getting his panties in a twist. Well done, everyone.
Quote from: Die-Hard on May 16, 2006, 12:04:47 AM
We can specuate all we want who we could have taken at 46, but the fact of the matter is that we would have selected someone. Maybe one of those guys who I didnt bold would have been a good player in our system. We'll never know.
The Eagles didn't give up pick 46, BTW. That was San Diego's original pick. They traded #30 and #62 to move up to #15. Even if you assume they would have taken L.J. Smith at #30 instead had they not made the trade for McDougle, they could have taken Nate Burleson and/or Kevin Curtis at #61 & #62, or they could have traded away a pick for a future pick if they thought the draft was weak... or packaged one or both picks to move up and get Umeniyora or Boldin. Whatever. All kinds of options.
They let Hugh walk, they weren't able to acquire anyone else, so they were forced to trade up for need. I don't care how weak the draft was... when you trade way up in the 1st round, you expect to get a player. McDougle's done nada so far and is an awful pick and a complete bust until proven otherwise.
Quote from: Die-Hard on May 15, 2006, 11:32:24 PM
58 Indianapolis Mike Doss SS Ohio State
Why? They had just drafted Mike Lewis the year before. Why is this even boldfaced?
That whole revisionist history thing always cracks me up anyway...as if guys drafted later would have the same impact and success on any team, running any system. It's not exactly that plug-and-play.
That whole revisionist history thing always cracks me up anyway...as if guys drafted later would have the same impact and success on any team, running any system. It's not exactly that plug-and-play.
definitely...there are so many factors that go into who they would have taken much less could have taken
lets just all agree that mcdougle was a very bad pick/move
Well, to this point I'd classify McDougle as a snakebit underachiever who still has a chance to be a solid contributor. You want more from a guy taken in that spot, certainly, but considering a good third or more of the first rounders taken every year are complete busts that stuff happens. The shooting was wrong place at the wrong time kind of stuff, so last year has to get a mulligan.
He still has a chance to be part of another third of the typical first round class that turns into solid contributors...I'd settle for that at this point.