ConcreteBoard

"I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to win ballgames"

What are your thoughts on this?

I loved it when I heard him say that. Everyone who has ripped Donovan has said that they just want to see him get on the field and win games and to shut up, right? Well he basically announced that is what he plans on doing. And he continued to say that he is still the same guy but that its time to get to work and put the other stuff in the past.

Well, I'm driving into work today, right? And I've got Macnow and Didinger on the radio. Three o'clock comes up and Rob "I hate everything Philadelphia" Charry and Johnny Marz are the next ones on.

Charry says "Oh, my. Donovan just said this" and then gives the quote and immediately starts bashing him for saying that. And then Ray and Glen are like "wow, thats not smart".

What the farg? I mean, isn't that what EVERYONE in the Philly media has said about him? That they want him to just win games and zip it? Well today he says essentially what the idiots have been calling for him to do and they rip him?

Donovan said that no one will ever like everyone they work with, which is true. And then said that he is still the same guy but just wants to move on and win. Yet he still gets blasted. Unreal.

I heard Charry say the same thing. I almost didn't catch it because on weekends I only listen to WIP to hear Didinger, but Charry came right on and said it immediately.

These are the comments that followed his comment:

"The only way we'll be able to win ballgames is by playing together and playing well. My whole mindset coming back is to work out, train, get stronger, get faster, push each other, motivate each other and have fun."

I think it's a good thing as well. It's not a shot at his teammates. It shows he's focused and ready to go. WIP is a joke that overhypes to get ratings. They start unnecessay hate bandwagons.

mini camp talk = less than nothing

lets see his mind state when he gets on the field and faces tough times and situations

From CBSSportsline.com;

QuotePHILADELPHIA -- There's a message that Philadelphia's Donovan McNabb is broadcasting this year, and for those who didn't hear the quarterback when he repeated it Saturday at the opening of the team's minicamp, don't sweat it.

Just open your eyes. It was written across the T-shirt McNabb wore to his post-practice news conference.

"If you can't trust FAMILY," it read, "then who can you TRUST?"

Good question.

The Eagles trust Donovan McNabb. Or at least they say they do, and that's critical if they're to flex their muscles again in the NFC East.

A year ago, the club was sabotaged by a civil war between McNabb and wide receiver Terrell Owens -- with Owens lobbing grenades that McNabb failed to return as the club disintegrated and sank to its worst finish in six years.

Now, Owens is gone, and McNabb is back to answer questions about how or if he can lead a club he allegedly failed a year ago.

The perception is that, somehow, because McNabb didn't get down and dirty with Owens that he wasn't the team leader he was supposed to be. Or maybe it was because some of his teammates voiced support of Owens that there was supposed to be a rift.

Whatever it was, McNabb is on the hot seat now. But, please, someone, tell me where he failed. As McNabb said shortly after his first practice, go into the locker room, quiz his teammates and tell him who's not behind the guy.

OK, I did. And I'm still looking.

"Obviously, we all know what type of player Donovan is," said linebacker Jeremiah Trotter. "He had some injuries last year, but everybody struggled. Nobody had a good season. If he's just the Donovan McNabb he is, that will be enough."

At his first practice, McNabb looked like the Donovan McNabb he's supposed to be -- or was -- prior to bowing out with an abdominal injury that sidelined him after nine starts and required surgery.

On one play, he dropped back to throw, then rolled right when he found no one open. Drifting toward the sideline, he spotted Brian Westbrook crossing from left to right 25 yards downfield and threw a perfect spiral that the star running back cradled on his fingertips.

"I'm excited about getting back on the field and taking another step toward our goal," said McNabb. "Obviously, there's a change."

No kidding. Number 81 is back, but this time it's worn by rookie Jason Avant, not Owens. But all the baggage that accompanied Owens and that buried the club -- and McNabb along with it -- seems to be gone.

Which is why McNabb, as the survivor, is under the magnifying glass.

Inquiring minds want to know what he has to prove and when he intends to prove it. Pardon me, but didn't the guy make it to three successive conference championship games without T.O.? Oh, and one more thing: Didn't he make it to the Super Bowl without Owens in the lineup for NFC playoff games?

"I don't plan on being any different," he said. "I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to win ballgames. And the only way to win ballgames is to play together and play well."

Well, they did neither a year ago, which is where McNabb comes in. If he is healthy and back as the Eagles' leader, the question is this: Can he restore order to a club that once owned its division? He thinks he can -- saying, "I don't think it will be hard at all" -- but let's put that one on hold.

So far the signs are encouraging, and one of them is what happened to McNabb in the offseason. He spent more time than normal in Philadelphia working out at the club's NovaCare Complex ... and not because he had to but because he believed he needed to.

"I wanted to send a message to the guys that, with everything that happened, I'm still focused and looking forward to getting back on the field," said McNabb. "I wanted them to have that same attitude as well."

Trotter got the point. So did others. As safety Brian Dawkins said, "If there was mending to be done, it's been done. We're moving on." And they believe they will do that moving with McNabb at the head of the class. "Donovan's been working hard this offseason getting healthy and training here every day," said Trotter. "And that's what leaders do."

OK, I believe. But if others don't, McNabb isn't all that interested in arguing his case. It's his team and his teammates who deserve his attention, and they have it. Again. Anyone else ... well, they don't really matter, and that includes people who cringed when McNabb earlier this year referred to Owens' criticism of him as "black-on-black crime."

"What I said is what I said. It's over now," said McNabb. "If (people) don't understand what I said, then that's tough. Move on."

McNabb seems to have done that -- losing weight, cutting his hair and, yes, making peace with his teammates. As I said, that's important to the future of this team because the Philadelphia Eagles go only as far as Donovan McNabb. If he can't or won't lead them they're in trouble.

"There was never a point where I felt I was losing the team," McNabb said of last year, "but as a quarterback, you get all the credit; you get all the criticism. It's funny, but when you have a losing season everything gets magnified.

"I'm not going to change who I am. I'm always going to smile and crack jokes, and if people don't think it's funny, I'm still going to laugh. I'm going to entertain myself, I guess. I can't worry about what everyone else is doing. ... If you can't trust family, who can you trust?"

I got the message. More important, the Philadelphia Eagles do, too

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 02:58:36 AM
mini camp talk = less than nothing

lets see his mind state when he gets on the field and faces tough times and situations

Agreed.

Yet you continue to poison your brain by listening to it.

I winced when I heard McNabb say it because I knew it would lead every news story about the Eagles for a week.

McNabb the tough guy.

:-D

Anyone who tries & spin that comment around is a whiny, little bitch who is just looking for an angle to bust McNabb's stones. The Eagles' goals aren't to sit around a campfire, make schmores, tell ghost stories and hopefully win a game or two. Their ultimate goal is to win it all, regardless of whether everyone on the team are BFF's.

Your boss at work isn't there be your friend, they are there to help guide a group of people to a mutual goal. Football is no different.

There's nothing McNabb can say that won't draw controversy including not saying anything.

good...he cut his hair.

Quote from: hyjacker on May 14, 2006, 10:13:58 AM
There's nothing McNabb can say that won't draw controversy including not saying anything.

Couldn't agree more, I'll never understand the scrutiny.

here's the whole quote for the nitpicking jackasses that just love to bash #5

Quote"I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to win ballgames," said McNabb. "The only way we'll be able to win ballgames is by playing together and playing well. My whole mindset coming back is to work out, train, get stronger, get faster, push each other, motivate each other and have fun."

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 02:58:36 AM
mini camp talk = less than nothing

lets see his mind state when he gets on the field and faces tough times and situations

Tell that to the dopes on WIP who love twisting every word the man says into a negative.

The people that scrutinize and hate on McNabb are idiots they are the same ass bags that wanted Ricky Williams and feel they need to pick apart McNabb to make up for their own stupidity.  McNabb is hands down the best QB in Eagles history.

Definitely. I'm also sick of hearing about McNabb "mental state" going into the season. It's way overblown. It's funny how people think somehow TO's antics are going to make McNabb throw interceptions in 2006. McNabb had a bad season last year because of his sports hernia. It had nothing to do with anything mentally. He made a costly mistake against the Cowboys. It happens. It had nothing to do with TO being in his head.

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on May 14, 2006, 06:20:46 PM
The people that scrutinize and hate on McNabb are idiots they are the same ass bags that wanted Ricky Williams and feel they need to pick apart McNabb to make up for their own stupidity. McNabb is hands down the best QB in Eagles history.

I couldn't agree more. I look forward to seeing him prove everyone wrong, again.

he wont prove anything unless he wins a superbowl

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 07:41:32 PM
he wont prove anything unless he wins a superbowl

Haven't you heard? We aren't even picked to win the division this year, much less make the playoffs or the Superbowl.

The only reason people don't think the Eagles will win the division is simply because the 6-10 season is fresh in their heads. People look at this team and say they didn't make enough improvements to get to an 11-5/12-4 team. Well, as far as I'm concerned, this team wasn't  6-10 team last season. It was a fluke year, and they were a 12-4 team that played like a 6-10 team. Injuries, distractions, and players not playing to their capabilities all contributed.

We are every bit as good right now as this team was in 2004. The only position I can see that we aren't as strong right now is receiver. But as a group we are better. TO was a great player, but Pinkston and Mitchell weighed them down as a group. Brown, Pinkston, Gaffney and Avant doesn't have the go to threat we had with TO, but there is more talent spread around.

im just saying...he has nothing left to do but win a superbowl...if he doesnt do that hes just another qb and will never be anything more

theres nothing he can do other than win a sb that will prove anything to anyone

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 07:52:20 PM
im just saying...he has nothing left to do but win a superbowl...if he doesnt do that hes just another qb and will never be anything more

theres nothing he can do other than win a sb that will prove anything to anyone

I agree to a point.  While a SB is the only thing that will get the folks off his back and he shakes that "choker" label for good... I think that something can be said for him returning to his pro-bowl form and taking the East back w/o TO... and proving that he's still one of the best in the league.

There sure are a whole lot more people out there that doubt him than there were before the 2005 season.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 07:52:20 PM
im just saying...he has nothing left to do but win a superbowl...if he doesnt do that hes just another qb and will never be anything more

theres nothing he can do other than win a sb that will prove anything to anyone

Just like Dan Marino or Jim Kelly.

Quote from: EagleFeva on May 14, 2006, 08:00:22 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 07:52:20 PM
im just saying...he has nothing left to do but win a superbowl...if he doesnt do that hes just another qb and will never be anything more

theres nothing he can do other than win a sb that will prove anything to anyone

I agree to a point.  While a SB is the only thing that will get the folks off his back and he shakes that "choker" label for good... I think that something can be said for him returning to his pro-bowl form and taking the East back w/o TO... and proving that he's still one of the best in the league.

There sure are a whole lot more people out there that doubt him than there were before the 2005 season.

It's unwarranted doubt. He was hampered by the sports hernia all season and made a bad play vs the Cowboys and now all of a sudden he's too fragile to win.

Last time I checked, even the almighty Tom Brady threw a crucial interception in the playoffs that cost his team the game. Brady is the better QB, but the point is it happens sometimes.

McNabb hasn't proven to be the clutch QB Brady is, but McNabb is far from a choker.

McNabb hasn't proven to be the clutch QB Brady is, but McNabb is far from a choker

just for the record.....whats your definition of choker? tell me yours and i'll tell you mine

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 07:52:20 PM
im just saying...he has nothing left to do but win a superbowl...if he doesnt do that hes just another qb and will never be anything more

theres nothing he can do other than win a sb that will prove anything to anyone

He's more than just another qb. Is Dan Marino "just another qb??" Is Payton Manning? There are a lot of Pro Bowl qb's who haven't won a Superbowl. They aren't "just another qb."

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:05:59 PM
McNabb hasn't proven to be the clutch QB Brady is, but McNabb is far from a choker

just for the record.....whats your definition of choker? tell me yours and i'll tell you mine

Peyton Manning.

Someone who plays at their worst when the game the biggest of games.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 14, 2006, 07:52:02 PM
The only reason people don't think the Eagles will win the division is simply because the 6-10 season is fresh in their heads. People look at this team and say they didn't make enough improvements to get to an 11-5/12-4 team. Well, as far as I'm concerned, this team wasn't 6-10 team last season. It was a fluke year, and they were a 12-4 team that played like a 6-10 team. Injuries, distractions, and players not playing to their capabilities all contributed.

We are every bit as good right now as this team was in 2004. The only position I can see that we aren't as strong right now is receiver. But as a group we are better. TO was a great player, but Pinkston and Mitchell weighed them down as a group. Brown, Pinkston, Gaffney and Avant doesn't have the go to threat we had with TO, but there is more talent spread around.

I disagree.  It's not the fact that the Eagles haven't made much improvements/changes to the team.  It's the fact that the rest of the division is catching up to them or maybe even caught up. 

A division title is not a gimmie in this division now.  Not with this team.  There's still a bunch of questions that need to be answered before anyone will know for sure.  This team's definately much better than 6-10 but with some of the improvements other teams in the division have made over the last few years, nothing is a given.  Except that the skins suck. 

Quote from: EagleFeva on May 14, 2006, 08:00:22 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 14, 2006, 07:52:20 PM
im just saying...he has nothing left to do but win a superbowl...if he doesnt do that hes just another qb and will never be anything more

theres nothing he can do other than win a sb that will prove anything to anyone

I agree to a point. While a SB is the only thing that will get the folks off his back and he shakes that "choker" label for good... I think that something can be said for him returning to his pro-bowl form and taking the East back w/o TO... and proving that he's still one of the best in the league.

There sure are a whole lot more people out there that doubt him than there were before the 2005 season.

I don't even think that the McNabb haters will get off his back even if the Eagles do win a SB.  If McNabb wins a SB it'll be because of the defense or special teams or *cough* running game *cough*.

Quote from: Sgt PSN on May 14, 2006, 08:07:56 PM

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 14, 2006, 07:52:02 PM
The only reason people don't think the Eagles will win the division is simply because the 6-10 season is fresh in their heads. People look at this team and say they didn't make enough improvements to get to an 11-5/12-4 team. Well, as far as I'm concerned, this team wasn't 6-10 team last season. It was a fluke year, and they were a 12-4 team that played like a 6-10 team. Injuries, distractions, and players not playing to their capabilities all contributed.

We are every bit as good right now as this team was in 2004. The only position I can see that we aren't as strong right now is receiver. But as a group we are better. TO was a great player, but Pinkston and Mitchell weighed them down as a group. Brown, Pinkston, Gaffney and Avant doesn't have the go to threat we had with TO, but there is more talent spread around.

I disagree.  It's not the fact that the Eagles haven't made much improvements/changes to the team.  It's the fact that the rest of the division is catching up to them or maybe even caught up. 

A division title is not a gimmie in this division now.  Not with this team.  There's still a bunch of questions that need to be answered before anyone will know for sure.  This team's definately much better than 6-10 but with some of the improvements other teams in the division have made over the last few years, nothing is a given.  Except that the skins suck. 

I have to give the Giants and the Skins more than one good year before I can consider this division greatly improved. If the Giants and Skins come out this year and play well again, then I'll consider it greatly improved, but not yet. Teams have had random great years after a series of bad years, then went back to being bad again. As far as I'm concerned the Giants and Skins were as much of a fluke last year as the Eagles were until proven otherwise.

Looking at the rest of the division on paper I'm far from impressed. Especially since this division has one of the worst groups of QBs excluding McNabb in the entire league.

Eli, Brunell, and Bledsoe all suck. Plus they all have sub-par offensive lines as well. I'm not saying these teams blow, but I'm saying to me it's not a given yet that this is going to be a tough division. They are better but the question is how much?

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 14, 2006, 08:07:05 PM

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:05:59 PM
McNabb hasn't proven to be the clutch QB Brady is, but McNabb is far from a choker

just for the record.....whats your definition of choker? tell me yours and i'll tell you mine

Peyton Manning.

Someone who plays at their worst when the game the biggest of games.

I can say the same for McNabb...no question....in more than one big game too.

He doesnt deserve any higher praises until he wins the SB and can take a final winning drive in the endzone without throwing up...haha

How many playoff games has Peyton won and how many has McNabb won?

Please. You are just a McNabb hater. I don't care how much he gagged, he threw a TD on that drive, which is all that matters. If he was gagging in the huddle, then it makes the TD throw all the more impressive.

Bunkley my man...far from a McNabb hater. Just a realist whos not going to compare greatness to any QB unless he wins something of significance. I want it more than the next guy, and Im going to take my blindfold off during the process.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 14, 2006, 08:17:13 PM
How many playoff games has Peyton won and how many has McNabb won?

Please. You are just a McNabb hater. I don't care how much he gagged, he threw a TD on that drive, which is all that matters. If he was gagging in the huddle, then it makes the TD throw all the more impressive.

look at the teams Donovan played against compared to Peyton's.  the talent level isn't close.

I love McNabb, but that arguement doens't work whatsoever.

Mo, I just gave you pounds

yikes.

yeah, then when you walked away...the middle finger

Quote from: Sun_Mo on May 14, 2006, 08:21:34 PM

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 14, 2006, 08:17:13 PM
How many playoff games has Peyton won and how many has McNabb won?

Please. You are just a McNabb hater. I don't care how much he gagged, he threw a TD on that drive, which is all that matters. If he was gagging in the huddle, then it makes the TD throw all the more impressive.

look at the teams Donovan played against compared to Peyton's.  the talent level isn't close.

I love McNabb, but that arguement doens't work whatsoever.

It works if you look at how Peyton beat them during the regular season and comes back to choke against them in the playoffs. He plays poorly in the playoffs. McNabb doesn't.

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:21:07 PM
Bunkley my man...far from a McNabb hater. Just a realist whos not going to compare greatness to any QB unless he wins something of significance. I want it more than the next guy, and Im going to take my blindfold off during the process.

Ok in that case, Dan Marino was a choker and isn't great.

I love how haters always loved to be called realists by the way when they are far from realistic. Just a cop out.

Quote from: Sun_Mo on May 14, 2006, 08:21:34 PM

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 14, 2006, 08:17:13 PM
How many playoff games has Peyton won and how many has McNabb won?

Please. You are just a McNabb hater. I don't care how much he gagged, he threw a TD on that drive, which is all that matters. If he was gagging in the huddle, then it makes the TD throw all the more impressive.

look at the teams Donovan played against compared to Peyton's.  the talent level isn't close.

I love McNabb, but that arguement doens't work whatsoever.

99' Titans 19-6
00' Dolphins 23-17
01' Missed the playoffs
02' Jets 41-0
03' Pats 24-14
04' Pats 20-3
05' Steelers 21-18

Mannings had far superior talent on Offense his entire career, far superior. The Steelers and Pats were better than anything the NFC had, but really did any of those teams dominate in the Superbowl? Manning with all of his weapons could only manage 3 points in 04' vs. the Pats while McNabb managed 21 points. Manning is a choke artist, simple and plain.

His QB rating in the playoff games he lost is like a 40.

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:21:07 PM
Bunkley my man...far from a McNabb hater. Just a realist whos not going to compare greatness to any QB unless he wins something of significance. I want it more than the next guy, and Im going to take my blindfold off during the process.

So what's your feeling on Marino?

Quote from: phillymic2000 on May 14, 2006, 09:06:12 PM

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:21:07 PM
Bunkley my man...far from a McNabb hater. Just a realist whos not going to compare greatness to any QB unless he wins something of significance. I want it more than the next guy, and Im going to take my blindfold off during the process.

So what's your feeling on Marino?

He sucked in Ace Ventura: Pet Detective and his restaurants are Don Shula imitations.

Other than that, I have no opinion.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on May 14, 2006, 08:14:43 AM
Yet you continue to poison your brain by listening to it.

In the last 3 months I think I have listened to WIP for about 3 hours total. All on the way to work and only when 950 is on commercial.

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:21:07 PM
Bunkley my man...far from a McNabb hater. Just a realist whos not going to compare greatness to any QB unless he wins something of significance. I want it more than the next guy, and Im going to take my blindfold off during the process.

I love how clowns hide behind the "realist" tag when bashing the team. Admit that youre a hater and get out from behind the "realist" cloak. I also like how people start off a good bash session by stating how long they have owned season tickets, been a fan or how they want to win as much as anyone.

We all have our opinions. Yours are on the hater side of things. Admit it. Embrace the darkside and live with it. And then man up when McNabb proves you wrong.

It's funny how people who claim to be realists always speak the opposite of reality. It's usually baseless bashing.

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 15, 2006, 03:17:52 AM

Quote from: reese125 on May 14, 2006, 08:21:07 PM
Bunkley my man...far from a McNabb hater. Just a realist whos not going to compare greatness to any QB unless he wins something of significance. I want it more than the next guy, and Im going to take my blindfold off during the process.

I love how clowns hide behind the "realist" tag when bashing the team. Admit that youre a hater and get out from behind the "realist" cloak. I also like how people start off a good bash session by stating how long they have owned season tickets, been a fan or how they want to win as much as anyone.

We all have our opinions. Yours are on the hater side of things. Admit it. Embrace the darkside and live with it. And then man up when McNabb proves you wrong.

#1--Phreak and Bunkley--if you sit here and think McNabb hasnt faltered in any game in the last 5 years your so in the clouds its ridiculous. Check back and look at the statements that were made before you start jumping at nonsense just to make a point.

#2--Just because I dont have my mouth buried in McNabbs nuts because he is our quarterback doesnt make me a hater. I know the guy is good, he has a great playoff record and has taken this team on his back the majority of the years. Has he won big games--no question, has he choked in some games--without doubt. If you cant admit that, than your truly not a realist--your a fool.

#3--before you go and write a paragraph about bashing a team--think back to all of your 24 pages of negative Phillies comments among the pages of Eagles comments Phreak. I can be negative just like you, or should I say truthful.

I've always thought that the whole "keepin' it real" thing was a cop-out.  It's like an insurance policy against being disappointed when your team loses or underperforms.

It's especially annoying dealing with people who are die-hards for the team when they're winning and then disappear when they start losing.

Objective criticism is fine but mindless, baseless negativism isn't in my book.

I honestly think there's a certain percentage of fans who get off on the whole mystique of Philly teams being cursed and Philly fans being obnoxious losers.  Personally, I'd prefer it if we followed teams that won everything in sight but that just hasn't been the case for the better part of our lives. 

hey, if your someone that gets disappointed by the truth just because your a diehard, than your not seeing reality for what it is. I dont go back and forth from winners and or losers--thats corny and phony. There is such a thing as looking at life/sports from face value--your either going to think objectively or subjectively. Whichever direction you choose thats fine. I know which direction Im facing

Well, I prefer to look at things optimistically, reese.   

Being cynical and negative about everything is a zesty way of looking at things, especially things in which you have absolutely no control over.

I'm a critical thinker in every other aspect of my life other than sports.  I mean, how else can you explain a 41 year-old man being fanatically devoted to a team who has never won a championship in his lifetime?  It's a sickness we all share as Eagles fans for sure, but if we're going to be sick, we might as well be optimistic about the future of the team.

who are these "mcnabb bashers"?  callers on WIP?
uhhh...who cares?


i don't think anyone on here constantly bashes mcnabb....some of us point out that he's come up small in some big games but i don't think anybody on here is saying he's a bad qb.
and stop it with the "hater" label already.  it's possible to be critical without having blind hatred for a player.

no question Rome. Be optimistic all you want--I figured thats why your in this forum. I find myself to be a very positive person as well, but I can still speak the truth without being labeled as cynic or pessimist. Everyone in here has been negative/ positive with all the Philly sports teams--its indeniable. More so on the negative because this city is in a drought. But whatever, from my standpoint--as long as you know what the hell your talking about--you can speak on both sides of the coin

QuoteJohn Smallwood: McNabb's offense is his continued insensitivity


I'M BEGINNING TO wonder if Donovan McNabb actually doesn't care.

I didn't think so, but maybe McNabb cares as little about the sensitivities of other people that his misplaced comment during Super Bowl week and his refusal to back off of it implies.

Maybe he actually believes it was appropriate to characterize his verbal catfight with departed receiver Terrell Owens as "black-on-black crime."

That his celebrity status puts him so far above common folk that he isn't required to consider how people who have suffered the tragedies of true black-on-black crime could be offended by his defiant defending of his ridiculous stance.

I thought he was better than that. Maybe I was wrong.

"Anything you'd like to clean up? Particularly the black-on-black crime comment that a lot people felt was insensitive of you and took offense to?" McNabb was asked during his news conference Saturday during Eagles minicamp.

"No," the quarterback responded. "What I said is what I said. You know, it's over now. We move on."

The follow-up question started, "You don't think that people have any right to feel that comparing something like [black-on-black crime] to you and T.O. having an argument was... "

McNabb cut the question off by responding, "I personally don't even care. If they don't understand what I said, then that's tough. I mean, move on."

That was cold.

Perhaps that's why once he saw the transcripts of his interview, McNabb later clarified his answer through a team spokesman. "It wasn't my intent to offend anyone," he said after Saturday's second practice session.

"If they don't understand what I said, I can't do anything about that now. It's time to move on."

That, however, doesn't explain why in the official transcript of McNabb's news conference, the one that is placed on the team's Web site and e-mailed to news organizations, the Eagles media relations staff deleted McNabb's "I personally don't even care," comment and replaced it with the amended response. The team did note on the transcript that it was providing the clarified response.

But why cover up what he said?

Of course, even an "on second thought" quote offering some contrition was more than what McNabb did in March when he told Comcast SportsNet that if people didn't understand what he was talking about during Super Bowl week, "It wasn't meant for you."

In the grand scheme, McNabb is just an athlete whose views on social issues probably don't mean that much.

And I know a lot of Eagles fans couldn't care less about McNabb's social awareness as long as he recovers from last season's physical and mental injuries and leads the Birds back into the hunt for the Super Bowl.

Still, it was McNabb himself who injected this issue into his dispute with Owens.

Until Saturday, I believed that McNabb had just used a poor choice of words when he told ESPN, "It was a slap in the face because, as deep as people want to go into it, it was black-on-black crime," referring to Owens saying the Eagles would have had a better record if Brett Favre were the Birds' quarterback instead of McNabb.

I believed McNabb wanted to make reference to the old saying, "crabs in a pot" or a barrel, which basically refers to the phenomena of one black person trying to pull another black down.

Few people could have blamed him for feeling like that after what Owens did to him last season.

Still, as McNabb stated, what he said was what he said.

So now, telling people to "move on" because he doesn't want to deal with the collateral controversy and criticism he created doesn't cut it.

All of which leads me to wonder if McNabb truly doesn't care.

He was aware of the stir his black-on-black crime analogy would create.

In November, McNabb's father, Sam, came under criticism when he made virtually the same comment to the Daily News in reference to Owens continually verbally slamming his son.

"That's something that I think you would have to ask my dad about, just what the message he's sending with that," McNabb said back then. "But it's unfortunate anytime, if it's black or white, that we would have this type of tragedy."

So how could McNabb have not anticipated that he would be asked, "Just what was the message he was sending with that?"

And when his answer is, "I personally don't even care," why should anyone believe otherwise?

I didn't want to think that about McNabb, but now, I'm beginning to wonder.

I love it. 

They ask questions, McNabb answers them truthfully at the time, then three months later, they drag it back up, he gives a "no comment - let's move on" response and that's not good enough for some people.

::)

Could this be any more of a non-issue?  I'm just glad he got rid of the ridiculous hair and the love handles.

for someone to even bring that back up- with the start of a new season- is just so bored and uncreative in finding a story.
Thats all this team needs is negative press--idiots

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 08:38:08 AM
Could this be any more of a non-issue?  I'm just glad he got rid of the ridiculous hair and the love handles.

i agree....that's the bigger story.

braids are wack.

He looks less like Iverson, and that's always a good thing.

i cant believe people have actually compared mcnabb to jim kelly anc dan marino much less peyton manning...and fwiw mcnabb is not a pro bowl caliber qb...hes had one true probowl year and that was 2004...the other years he made it because of injuries and because of the horrible qb situation in the nfc...the guy is a good solid qb no more no less...please dont put him in a league with dan marino and jim kelly


the eagles  have won games because of mcnabb but they were never a good team bevause of mcnabb...when he ran he was a very good weapon but hes never been great qb and never will be...that doesnt mean he cant lead the team to a sb...but there are certainly major concerns as to if he will ever do it

all im saying is that he doesnt have great numbers in his career and has laid some huge playoff eggs...he isnt going to prove anything from here on out unless he wins superbowl...whereas someone like peyton manning or marino will have monsterous numbers and will be considered with the greats of all time even if they dont win a sb...and kelly has four sb appearances plus huge numbers...mcnabb will have nothing but some nice numbers...he has to win a superbowl or else he ends up in an argument as to who is the best eagle qb ever...of course thats nothing to be ashamed of

get ready IGY...here it comes.........

i cant help it if the truth hurts

Quote from: reese125 on May 15, 2006, 08:43:14 AM
for someone to even bring that back up- with the start of a new season- is just so bored and uncreative in finding a story.
Thats all this team needs is negative press--idiots

Well get ready because Cataldi is stirring the black-on-black crab pot or some such.  He's on right now firing up the masses.

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 15, 2006, 03:17:52 AM
I love how clowns hide behind the "realist" tag when bashing the team. Admit that youre a hater and get out from behind the "realist" cloak. I also like how people start off a good bash session by stating how long they have owned season tickets, been a fan or how they want to win as much as anyone.

We all have our opinions. Yours are on the hater side of things. Admit it. Embrace the darkside and live with it. And then man up when McNabb proves you wrong.

Phreak, you HAVE to get off the homer tip. There is a farging massive amount of real estate between your opinion of McNabb and actually 'hating' him. And believe me, reality lies in between. Your homerism has rocketed off the charts recently and frankly, you're embarrassing yourself.

I love that McNabb (along with Reid) have brought respectability, stability and occasional dominance to this team. I love his ability and occasionally love his attitude. He's obviously one of the better Qbs in the NFL right now and has been an effective leader.

I hate that McNabb (along with Reid) have ruined this franchise's best opportunities to win a championship over the past 6 years. He has come up so small when the stakes were he highest that only a blinded taterskins-esque homer would not see it.

You're the one who obsessively posts Art's quotes from ES in the point and laugh thread and you're sounding more and more like him by the second...

Quote from: Beermonkey on May 15, 2006, 09:11:08 AM

Quote from: reese125 on May 15, 2006, 08:43:14 AM
for someone to even bring that back up- with the start of a new season- is just so bored and uncreative in finding a story.
Thats all this team needs is negative press--idiots

Well get ready because Cataldi is stirring the black-on-black crab pot or some such.  He's on right now firing up the masses.

Hes another idiot--who next month will be wondering why there is so much negative press surrounding McNabb this year. He needs to stick to hot sauce and wings

Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 09:13:38 AM
You're the one who obsessively posts Art's quotes from ES in the point and laugh thread and you're sounding more and more like him by the second...

If that was the case, he'd have Reno Mahe & Josh Parry listed as potential HOF inductees.  :P  I see Phreak's point though, as a lot of people who tend to dwell on the predominantly negative side, tend to overuse the term "realist" when describing themselves.

I don't think many would disagree with your assertion of McNabb, though a lot of fans don't factor in the positives you mentioned.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 08:51:22 AM
i cant believe people have actually compared mcnabb to jim kelly anc dan marino much less peyton manning...and fwiw mcnabb is not a pro bowl caliber qb...hes had one true probowl year and that was 2004...the other years he made it because of injuries and because of the horrible qb situation in the nfc...the guy is a good solid qb no more no less...please dont put him in a league with dan marino and jim kelly

Name me a QB in the NFL, nevermind that, name me a QB in the history of the NFL who's done more with less. Every time I ask this question I either get A) Some cop out answer as to why that question isn't important or B) The Brady argument from the '02 Pats, and if thats the case then my argument holds water.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 08:51:22 AMand fwiw mcnabb is not a pro bowl caliber qb...hes had one true probowl year and that was 2004...

So you're saying he's a Pro-Bowl QB then?

McNabb finished second in NFL MVP voting in 2000.  Was that an aberration as well?

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on May 15, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
McNabb finished second in NFL MVP voting in 2000.  Was that an aberration as well?

it's all an aberration...we all know that the truth is mcnabb is a 12 year old white girl who shouldnt even be in the nfl.

Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 10:22:04 AM

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on May 15, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
McNabb finished second in NFL MVP voting in 2000.  Was that an aberration as well?

it's all an aberration...we all know that the truth is mcnabb is a 12 year old white girl who shouldnt even be in the nfl.

:boo

  So you're saying he's a Pro-Bowl QB then?

Sure

but then so are scott mitchell michael vick and mark bulger

probowl is one of the least important attributes of being a great player


Name me a QB in the NFL, nevermind that, name me a QB in the history of the NFL who's done more with less. Every time I ask this question I either get A) Some cop out answer as to why that question isn't important or B) The Brady argument from the '02 Pats, and if thats the case then my argument holds water.

i would name marino and elway and others but all you will do is say how great their wr's were....when in reality thier wr's were only anything because they were such great qb's...a qb elevates the players around him...he makes bad wr's good ones and good wr's great ones...with mcnabb its the other way around...he needs a TO to make him great

this isnt a knock on mcnabb in anyway...he simply isnt a great qb...however good qb's have won the sb...hopefully mcnabb is one of them

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on May 15, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
McNabb finished second in NFL MVP voting in 2000.  Was that an aberration as well?

yes it was. because McNabb taking off and rushing for 600+ yards and getting 6 rushing TD's is false hope for the remainder of his career

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:26:29 AM


Name me a QB in the NFL, nevermind that, name me a QB in the history of the NFL who's done more with less. Every time I ask this question I either get A) Some cop out answer as to why that question isn't important or B) The Brady argument from the '02 Pats, and if thats the case then my argument holds water.

i would name marino and elway and others but all you will do is say how great their wr's were....when in reality thier wr's were only anything because they were such great qb's...a qb elevates the players around him...he makes bad wr's good ones and good wr's great ones...with mcnabb its the other way around...he needs a TO to make him great

this isnt a knock on mcnabb in anyway...he simply isnt a great qb...however good qb's have won the sb...hopefully mcnabb is one of them

Clayton and Duper are hall of famers compared to anything besides TO that McNabbs had to throw too. Rod Smith was a good WR with Elway and is a good WR without him, McCafferey and an outstanding running game were also a big help. Those comparisons are a complete joke and you know it.

Those comparisons are a complete joke and you know it.

they really arent

but if you need to say clayton and duper were great wr's in order artifically inflate mcnabb then knock yourself out

unless he wins a sb mcnabb is just another very good qb in this league...hes in with a hundred others of his kind...hes joe theisman without a superbowl...hes not even on the same planet as the the elways and marinos...

Dude, bad QBs have won a SB.  See Mark Rypien, Roethlisberger.  Winning a SB is also a bad yard stick for the "quality" of a QB.  McNabb brings a lot to the table, and has done a lot with a little.  I'm glad he's finally starting to walk away from TO questions.  That was my biggest worry, that he was going to act like a pouty 17 year old girl who got dumped right before the prom.  If that doesn't happen, it's all good.  He's got the tools to succeed this year, as he has in the past.  Barring injury, they win 10-12 games this season.

Is the 134 touchdowns against only 66 interceptions he's thrown in his career an aberration as well?  How about the 21 rushing touchdowns he's made?   Nothing but luck, right?   :-D

How about the four straight appearances in the NFCCG?  If he's such a mediocre quarterback, how did he manage to win all those preliminary games before getting to the conference championship games?  Was it his fault that the defense did nothing against Tampa Bay?  How about against Carolina?  Was it his fault that Pinkston got bitch slapped by a half-pint midget like Ricky Manning, Jr.?  Maybe his getting speared by Greg Favors in that game was his fault too?

Let's examine something else for a moment:  Who has he had to throw to in his career?  Has he had a Jerry Rice for multiple seasons?  Has he had an Andre Reed or Mark Duper or Rod Smith?  No.   He had Owens for one year and lit the league on fire.  Is it his fault that the receivers the Eagles bring in chronically suck year after year?

I'm not buying any of it.  McNabb is a great player and if Andy surrounded him with talent that was equal to his, then we'd be talking about multiple Super Bowl wins for McNabb, not a single fleeting glimpse at one.

Dude, bad QBs have won a SB


"this isnt a knock on mcnabb in anyway...he simply isnt a great qb...however good qb's have won the sb"

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:42:25 AM
Those comparisons are a complete joke and you know it.

they really arent

but if you need to say clayton and duper were great wr's in order artifically inflate mcnabb then knock yourself out

unless he wins a sb mcnabb is just another very good qb in this league...hes in with a hundred others of his kind...hes joe theisman without a superbowl...hes not even on the same planet as the the elways and marinos...

Compare McNabbs career stats to Elways, tell me where the overwhelming difference lies. And Elway only went on to win a SB because he had one of the most dominant running attacks in recent history.

Clayton/Duper were good receivers, up to this point Donovan's had crap. Lets see, Freddie left the team and went on to do what? Thrash? Johnson? Small?

I think this is funny how all of sudden anyone said Mcnabb sucked. Hes just been disappointing in alot of ways--as well as exciting...so easy fellas. hug it out...bring it in for the real thing

yep...not one person said he sucks.
i think he's very good....but not great.  to be great, you either have to win a super bowl or put up astronomical statistics...mcnabb hasn't done either yet.  i hope he does.

lolol...its so true

mcnabb has to be the best qb ever or youre a hater

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:58:25 AM
lolol...its so true

mcnabb has to be the best qb ever or youre a hater

Nope, but why is he scrutinized moreso than any other QB in the league? Thats what I want to know. Ever hear this crap about Manning? How bout any other QB?

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 11:03:34 AM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:58:25 AM
lolol...its so true

mcnabb has to be the best qb ever or youre a hater

Nope, but why is he scrutinized moreso than any other QB in the league? Thats what I want to know. Ever hear this crap about Manning? How bout any other QB?

duh.
because he's black.

Quote from: hunt on May 15, 2006, 11:08:30 AM

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 11:03:34 AM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:58:25 AM
lolol...its so true

mcnabb has to be the best qb ever or youre a hater

Nope, but why is he scrutinized moreso than any other QB in the league? Thats what I want to know. Ever hear this crap about Manning? How bout any other QB?

duh.
because he's black.

Not according to igy

i don't hear this stuff about McNabb nationally, only locally.  and if you don't think Peyton gets this shtein in Indy, you're kidding yourself.  every QB in every football city is under scrutiny.

Quote from: Sun_Mo on May 15, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
i don't hear this stuff about McNabb nationally, only locally.  and if you don't think Peyton gets this shtein in Indy, you're kidding yourself.  every QB in every football city is under scrutiny.

i was going to post something similar but i went with the because he's black joke instead.

funny, i was going to do a black joke, but went with a serious answer instead.

Quote from: Sun_Mo on May 15, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
i don't hear this stuff about McNabb nationally, only locally.  and if you don't think Peyton gets this shtein in Indy, you're kidding yourself.  every QB in every football city is under scrutiny.

Are you kidding me? McNabb's been scrutinized nationally more so than Manning, its not even close. Whether it be race, his play, TO, or something minor he's said like "I'm not here to make friends". If Manning had come out and said that you're telling me Colts fans would actually give a shtein?

where do you hear this national scrutiny?  because i sure as hell don't hear it.  and Peyton was getting killed nationally after they lost to the Steelers, especially for his comment about not throwing guys under the bus.  you think it's more on Donovan because he's your focus, but it's not. 

boo hoo

suck it up and win a superbowl

mcnabb is a good qb but hes a little bitch...my problem with him is not his play its does he have what it takes emotionally to win it all

philly probably was not the best place for him to go

Quote from: Sun_Mo on May 15, 2006, 11:15:02 AM
where do you hear this national scrutiny?  because i sure as hell don't hear it.  and Peyton was getting killed nationally after they lost to the Steelers, especially for his comment about not throwing guys under the bus.  you think it's more on Donovan because he's your focus, but it's not. 

In all honesty I didn't realize how bad the McNabb bashing was on a local level until I moved back here, I always thought it was more of a national opinion and that the city for the most part embraced him. Wasn't till I lived here for a month or so during the season that I saw how bad it was.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 11:16:39 AM
boo hoo

suck it up and win a superbowl

mcnabb is a good qb but hes a little bitch...my problem with him is not his play its does he have what it takes emotionally to win it all

philly probably was not the best place for him to go

He's handled everything from Race, to the TO fiasco, to questions about his play with class, how else would you have expected him to handle it?

I do give Mcnabb credit...he definitely handled the TO crap with professionalism and dignity on a media level, now in-house locker room style---he became the Tampax spokeman. Should of never of gotten that far

Quote from: Sun_Mo on May 15, 2006, 11:09:34 AM
i don't hear this stuff about McNabb nationally, only locally.  and if you don't think Peyton gets this shtein in Indy, you're kidding yourself.  every QB in every football city is under scrutiny.

Sorry Mo.. but this is some bull.

I don't live anywhere near Philly and I can tell you that McNabb gets TONS of national scrutiny.  There's not another QB who's had to endure shtein from Rush Limbaugh, from the NAACP, from TO... as well as from the local media... not even necessarily concerning his play, but concerning his race.  This shtein gets broadcasted and dissected NATIONALLY... not just up in a pocket of the northeast.  NO other QB has had to endure shtein like that, man.  Somebody find me an article reporting how someone questions Peyton Manning's whiteness.  Manning gets just the opposite.  I used to live pretty close to Indy and trust me... locally he's as much as a golden boy as he is nationally.  The worst he's had to deal with, even after his team suffering maybe the biggest choke in NFL history... is that he called out his offensive linemen... and even that was blown over in about a week.

Down here in Atlanta... where there are TONS of things to pick on the QB about... locally, they put Vick up on the highest pedestal in the history of Atlanta sports.  Sure... they have to bring up his shortcomings from time to time... but you better believe anytime they do that... another name is thrown in there to shoulder some blame as well.  Peerless Price?  Greg Knapp?  The entire defense?  Even the herpes thing has been swept under the rug here.  Can you imagine the Philly media on McNabb had that shtein happened to him?

Even Favre taking forever to decide he's gonna come back for another zesty season... nationally... he was protected and didn't really start getting ripped until the shtein just kept lingering and got out of hand.  Here... sure, we ripped the hell out of him, but nationally it was, "The Packers just haven't shown Brett that they're committed to winning."  Again... you can't tell me McNabb would have been treated as well.

Nationally, the whole thing on McNabb is if he can play without TO... as if he hasn't done shtein before then... and that TO "made" him.  How about the fact that TO had one of the best statistical years of his career in 2004 while catching passes from McNabb?  No one ever considers that McNabb raised TO's level of play as well.

I'm not saying that every writer across the country has to blow sunshine up the QB's ass all the time.  You rip him when he deserves it.. and you praise him when he deserves it.  In Philly... while they have no problems ripping the QB for things, they seem to come up short on the praising end too many times.  There is no QB in the league... hell, possibly in the history of the NFL that's had more shtein thrown at him for no reason than McNabb.  You can't tell me that every QB has to deal with that.

Philly is more critical of players' shortcomings than other cities in general.  That's nothing new.  Players, however, should learn to suck it up and develop some thick-ass skin to deal with it.  You have to respond (overly so, in some cases) for poor performance or stupid comments if you're a Philly sports star.

That said, none of this crap will matter if McNabb brings the Lombardi to Philly.

Funny enough... I agree.

When you hear Donovan McNabb's name being mentioned on a local political radio show in Daytona Beach, Florida, you know that he's more visible than just about any other quarterback in the NFL.

someone spotted McNabb 1 month ago in Dayton Beach lying on the beach. He was on his back with his hands and feet in the the air, and somebody asked him what he was doing. He said, "Im tanning..why?"



Thats wrong.

Booooooooooooo.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 11:16:39 AM
boo hoo

suck it up and win a superbowl

mcnabb is a good qb but hes a little bitch...my problem with him is not his play its does he have what it takes emotionally to win it all

philly probably was not the best place for him to go

I guess none of our franchise players have ever been good enough then.
Easy Dr.Phil on determining emotional strength. Emotional strength doesn't make-up for lack coaching adjustments, or running game.

If McNabb isn't great then the only QB in the NFL that is great is Brady. No one that knows football would say Manning is better than McNabb. When you draft a QB, you draft a QB who you think will give you the best chance at winning a Superbowl. Well since Manning has no shot at ever winning a Superbowl because he chokes every year and will continue to choke every year, McNabb has the edge.

He isn't as accurate as Manning, and doesn't read coverages as well, but he's got a better arm, he plays better in big games, and can do things when plays break down that Manning can't.

Also McNabb doesn't crumble into the dust when he gets sacked one time like Manning always does. Manning goes through the entire season without getting as much as touched and when he finally comes up against a good schemed defense in the playoffs that finds a way to get to Manning, and he gets sacked once, then he's done. He's lost mentally for the entire game.

So if McNabb isn't a great QB, then fine, but neither is anyone else in the league but Brady. Unless you want to be a fool and call Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, and Roethlisberger great, but everyone knows they didn't win the Superbowl, their defenses did.

Behind Brady McNabb is as good as anyone in the league. I have him as the 2nd best QB in the league. Carson Palmer could prove better, but has a lot to prove yet.

all QBs suck.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:27:54 PM
No one that knows football would say Manning is better than McNabb.

OK, sparky.

This may make no sense at all, but Manning is the better Quarterback, McNabb is the better football player.

If you want a QB who will be amazing during the regular season but guarantee you he'll never make it to a Superbowl every year then that's fine. Because that's the baggage that Manning comes with. He's going to choke in big games, it's pretty much a given. So when you have Manning on your team you also pretty much have the guarantee that your team will never win a Superbowl.

You have to factor in quality in the regular season with quality in playoffs.

Manning = great regular season QB, terrible playoff QB
McNabb = very good regular season QB, good playoff QB

McNabb gives you the better chance of winning games, which is the only thing that matters. Therefore McNabb is better. Otherwise you could foolishly argue that Manning is better than Brady which is so stupid it's not even worth arguing.

Manning is more accurate that Brady, they both read coverages exceptionally well, but where does Brady have the edge on Manning? Postseason and postseason only. As does McNabb. The regular season counts, but you have to factor in Manning's inability to win you a Superbowl. Do I know that Manning will NEVER win a Superbowl? No, but looking at what he's done in the past I'd say it's a very educated assumption.

look at your first sentence and your last and tell me if that is contradicting at all. then get up off your chair, take a walk around the room, stretch yourself out, sit back down and write something that legitmally makes football sense

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
If you want a QB who will be amazing during the regular season but guarantee you he'll never make it to a Superbowl every year then that's fine. Because that's the baggage that Manning comes with. He's going to choke in big games, it's pretty much a given. So when you have Manning on your team you also pretty much have the guarantee that your team will never win a Superbowl.

You have to factor in quality in the regular season with quality in playoffs.

Manning = great regular season QB, terrible playoff QB
McNabb = very good regular season QB, good playoff QB

McNabb gives you the better chance of winning games, which is the only thing that matters. Therefore McNabb is better. Otherwise you could foolishly argue that Manning is better than Brady which is so stupid it's not even worth arguing.

Manning is more accurate that Brady, they both read coverages exceptionally well, but where does Brady have the edge on Manning? Postseason and postseason only. As does McNabb. The regular season counts, but you have to factor in Manning's inability to win you a Superbowl. Do I know that Manning will NEVER win a Superbowl? No, but looking at what he's done in the past I'd say it's a very educated assumption.

Except there is one pretty large mistake in your post and that is you are equating McNabb to Brady in terms of postseason success. 

I love McNabb, and he has had SOME playoff success, but to make comparisons of McNabb and Brady and saying they are better than Manning because they have experienced better fortune in the playoffs is foolish.  You can make that argument for Brady--he has the rings to back it up.  But for McNabb?  He's gotten to one more SB than Manning and didn't win.  Really, then, has he had that much more success in the postseason? 

You can say that Manning's offensive skill players have been better than McNabb, which is of course true.  However, he's also had to play NE and their defense in the playoffs repeatedly, whereas the Eagles have played a weaker NFC. 

What I will say is that I think McNabb is a borderline top 5 QB, and I'm happy to have him here, but I'm not sure I'd rather have him than Manning, and their ultimate playoff success is really not so different--certainly not different enough to warrant comparison to what Brady's accomplished.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
Manning = great nearly-unstoppable regular season QB, terrible playoff QB
McNabb = very good regular season QB, good early playoff QB, marginal-at-best championship/Super Bowl QB

The whole lot of you McNabb uber-homers are nuts.  I love the guy, but he definitely has a few screws loose, and the way he's wired lends itself to some very questionable on-and-off-field decisions... and sometimes it seems like he doesn't have the strength of will to win that some of the great QB's of the present and past have had.

I love the guy, and he's the best hope for the Eagles to win a Super Bowl for the next 10 years at least, but can we please not put him on some sort of ridiculous pedestal?

He's not on a pedestal. I said Brady was the better QB, but McNabb is not a marginal postseason QB IMO.

He pretty much won every playoff game that we won SINGLEHANDEDLY in 2000 and 2001. Almost lead the Eagles to a huge upset over the Rams in 2001. Sure he hasn't played well in some games, but the fault is far from on McNabb's shoulders.

The Carolina game was not his fault at all. The receivers were 75% to blame and the coaches 25%. Dropped passes, bad play calls. McNabb was in a bad spot.

I will say the Tampa game had a lot to do with McNabb being at fault. He threw a costly interception, but they just got to McNabb all day. The defense swarmed him and overpowered the offensive line. Got away from a running game also when our only TD was off a running play.

As for the Superbowl. He played decently. Not terribly, not great. Some interceptions were his fault, others weren't. He still played well enough for this team to win, but it didn't happen.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
If you want a QB who will be amazing during the regular season but guarantee you he'll never make it to a Superbowl every year then that's fine. Because that's the baggage that Manning comes with. He's going to choke in big games, it's pretty much a given. So when you have Manning on your team you also pretty much have the guarantee that your team will never win a Superbowl.

You have to factor in quality in the regular season with quality in playoffs.

Manning = great regular season QB, terrible playoff QB
McNabb = very good regular season QB, good playoff QB

McNabb gives you the better chance of winning games, which is the only thing that matters. Therefore McNabb is better. Otherwise you could foolishly argue that Manning is better than Brady which is so stupid it's not even worth arguing.

Manning is more accurate that Brady, they both read coverages exceptionally well, but where does Brady have the edge on Manning? Postseason and postseason only. As does McNabb. The regular season counts, but you have to factor in Manning's inability to win you a Superbowl. Do I know that Manning will NEVER win a Superbowl? No, but looking at what he's done in the past I'd say it's a very educated assumption.

You know it doesn't matter how much you change your name, we all know it's you because of the ridiculous shtein that you say. 

By your retarded logic, you're saying that the Colts will never win a Superbowl because Manning has choked in big games.  But McNabb will win a SB because he comes up big in big games?  I don't recall the Eagles winning the Super Bowl either.

Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on May 15, 2006, 04:48:13 PM

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
If you want a QB who will be amazing during the regular season but guarantee you he'll never make it to a Superbowl every year then that's fine. Because that's the baggage that Manning comes with. He's going to choke in big games, it's pretty much a given. So when you have Manning on your team you also pretty much have the guarantee that your team will never win a Superbowl.

You have to factor in quality in the regular season with quality in playoffs.

Manning = great regular season QB, terrible playoff QB
McNabb = very good regular season QB, good playoff QB

McNabb gives you the better chance of winning games, which is the only thing that matters. Therefore McNabb is better. Otherwise you could foolishly argue that Manning is better than Brady which is so stupid it's not even worth arguing.

Manning is more accurate that Brady, they both read coverages exceptionally well, but where does Brady have the edge on Manning? Postseason and postseason only. As does McNabb. The regular season counts, but you have to factor in Manning's inability to win you a Superbowl. Do I know that Manning will NEVER win a Superbowl? No, but looking at what he's done in the past I'd say it's a very educated assumption.

Except there is one pretty large mistake in your post and that is you are equating McNabb to Brady in terms of postseason success. 

I love McNabb, and he has had SOME playoff success, but to make comparisons of McNabb and Brady and saying they are better than Manning because they have experienced better fortune in the playoffs is foolish.  You can make that argument for Brady--he has the rings to back it up.  But for McNabb?  He's gotten to one more SB than Manning and didn't win.  Really, then, has he had that much more success in the postseason? 

You can say that Manning's offensive skill players have been better than McNabb, which is of course true.  However, he's also had to play NE and their defense in the playoffs repeatedly, whereas the Eagles have played a weaker NFC. 

What I will say is that I think McNabb is a borderline top 5 QB, and I'm happy to have him here, but I'm not sure I'd rather have him than Manning, and their ultimate playoff success is really not so different--certainly not different enough to warrant comparison to what Brady's accomplished.

I'm not comparing McNabb and Brady per se. I already prefaced by saying Brady is better. I know Brady is better, and I know he's accomplished more. Where the comparison comes in is showing why Brady is better than Manning, and it also leads to show why McNabb also is the better player IMO.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:59:38 PM

I'm not comparing McNabb and Brady per se. I already prefaced by saying Brady is better. I know Brady is better, and I know he's accomplished more. Where the comparison comes in is showing why Brady is better than Manning, and it also leads to show why McNabb also is the better player IMO.

So let me get this straight.  There is no arguing the fact that Brady is better than Manning because he has 3 Super Bowl rings.  But there is also no arguing the fact that McNabb is better than Manning.  Just because. 

I think I see it now.

Quote from: phattymatty on May 15, 2006, 04:58:15 PM
You know it doesn't matter how much you change your name, we all know it's you because of the ridiculous shtein that you say. 

By your retarded logic, you're saying that the Colts will never win a Superbowl because Manning has choked in big games.  But McNabb will win a SB because he comes up big in big games?  I don't recall the Eagles winning the Super Bowl either.

Hey at least he got to a Superbowl, and was a TD away from winning one. Which is a LOT more than Manning can say. Talk to me when Manning grows a pair and actually gets within 10 points of getting to one.

Quote from: phattymatty on May 15, 2006, 05:02:42 PM

Quote from: Bunkley78 on May 15, 2006, 04:59:38 PM

I'm not comparing McNabb and Brady per se. I already prefaced by saying Brady is better. I know Brady is better, and I know he's accomplished more. Where the comparison comes in is showing why Brady is better than Manning, and it also leads to show why McNabb also is the better player IMO.

So let me get this straight.  There is no arguing the fact that Brady is better than Manning because he has 3 Super Bowl rings.  But there is also no arguing the fact that McNabb is better than Manning.  Just because. 

I think I see it now.

That's not what I said at all. McNabb has shown he can actually lead his team to a Superbowl. Talk to me when Manning does that.

The defense finally not choking in the NFC Championship is what led the team to the Super Bowl.

McNabb played OK.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:17:02 PM
The defense finally not choking in the NFC Championship is what led the team to the Super Bowl.

McNabb played OK.

I have to disagree with ya there, swirling winds, average receivers, no running game, a tough Atlanta defense, he played as well as any QB could be expected to play in such conditions.

I think 17-26 2 TDs 0 INTs is pretty damn good for ice cold windy conditions.

I also don't think the defense choked in any of the games but the Tampa game. 14 points to Carolina should be enough to win the game. We scored 3 points. That was on the offense.

Yeah, but the defense played stellar against Atlanta and gave McNabb a chance, whereas they got completely housed by St. Louis, Tampa, and Carolina in the title games the three successive years, meaning McNabb basically had to press hard to have any remote chance to win... whereas the defense gave him a true opportunity against Atlanta.

McNabb deserves some credit, sure, but he also ran out of gas in the Super Bowl when the team needed him to show leadership the most.  The TD pass to Lewis was great, but he panted and moved around in slow motion for 3 1/2 to 4 minutes before making that play.... so he didn't leave enough time on the clock to score again.

Again, the true McNabb is in-between the severe homers' and the irrational haters' opinions.  It's that simple.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:25:39 PM
Yeah, but the defense played stellar against Atlanta and gave McNabb a chance, whereas they got completely housed by St. Louis, Tampa, and Carolina in the title games the three successive years, meaning McNabb basically had to press hard to have any remote chance to win... whereas the defense gave him a true opportunity against Atlanta.

McNabb deserves some credit, sure, but he also ran out of gas in the Super Bowl when the team needed him to show leadership the most.  The TD pass to Lewis was great, but he panted and moved around in slow motion for 3 1/2 to 4 minutes before making that play.... so he didn't leave enough time on the clock to score again.

Again, the true McNabb is in-between the severe homers' and the irrational haters' opinions.  It's that simple.

I think the Eagles lost the Superbowl for the exact same reasons you think the Eagles lost those NFC title games. Defense. The Pats went up and down the field all day long in the second half. I don't think McNabb let the team down when it mattered most. He threw a TD at the end of the game to Greg Lewis. I assume you are talking about the gagging in the huddle which none of us knows to this day what even went down in that perspective.

McNabb said he didn't dry heave, Freddie said he did. Who the hell knows about all that crap.

I think vs Carolina the offense 100% let McNabb down, not the defense. The Eagles offense on a bad day could score at least 17 points. The receivers just dropped ball after ball after ball. That is what I call letting down your QB. Not the defense. If going into the game I told you Carolina would score just 14 points, you'd probably say the Eagles win that game.

I don't care if he was gagging or not.  I care that it was taking the team forever to get plays in and precious seconds were ticking down.  There was no sense of urgency on the sidelines and in the huddle.  It's both McNabb's fault and Reid's.

I'm just saying McNabb is not fantastically super #1 awesome in pressure situations on and off the field.

The Rams offense was unbelievable that year, the D kept us in it as long as they could. Not having Hollis killed us that game.
Bucs, yes, they were bad, no doubt.
Carolina, they weren't great but holding a team to 14 points at least gives the offense a chance.
Falcons, they were good but stats aside I've always viewed that game as McNabb putting the rest of the team on his back and saying lets go.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 05:35:15 PM
The Rams offense was unbelievable that year, the D kept us in it as long as they could. Not having Hollis killed us that game.
Bucs, yes, they were bad, no doubt.
Carolina, they weren't great but holding a team to 14 points at least gives the offense a chance.
Falcons, they were good but stats aside I've always viewed that game as McNabb putting the rest of the team on his back and saying lets go.

Rams - not having a healthy Troy Vincent killed us more than anything... that's why the team drafted 3 DB's in the 1st and 2nd rounds the next year

Bucs - bad all-around effort by the coaches and players... ran into a team on a hot streak and couldn't slow them down

Carolina - true, you can't really blame the D very much... you could blame McNabb pre-injury... but in general, the offensive skill position players sucked a huge one that day both due to injury and flat-out being out-played.  McNabb was doing absolutely nothing before the injury anyway.

it doesn't really matter, does it?  he's not going anywhere.  so, we should probably all just wait until the guy's career is over and then judge what kind of player he was based on his accomplishments and stats.

That won't require much patience with the "depth" at running back and wide receiver on the team.  McNabb's life will probably be over in 5 years, let alone his career.  Yes, that's awful to say and a nice piece of hyperbole, but I do see him being a sitting duck this year just like last year at this point.

All a team has to do is key on Westbrook, and the offense will be slowed majorly and put on McNabb's shoulders.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:40:15 PM

Rams - not having a healthy Troy Vincent killed us more than anything... that's why the team drafted 3 DB's in the 1st and 2nd rounds the next year

Oh yeah, forgot about his annual playoff groin injury.

He played in that game, but was like 75% at best.  Also, Damon Moore went out with injury.

A healthy secondary and the Eagles would have won that game, and who knows what would have come from that?  The Pats were very beatable (and big-time underdogs) that year.  Maybe McNabb and the Eagles would have 3 rings instead of the Pats by now.

Oh well.

If I remember correctly Buck was having a good game (and playoffs) but went down. We were up at the half but couldn't play clock control because of a lack of a running game.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:49:08 PM
He played in that game, but was like 75% at best.  Also, Damon Moore went out with injury.

A healthy secondary and the Eagles would have won that game, and who knows what would have come from that?  The Pats were very beatable (and big-time underdogs) that year.  Maybe McNabb and the Eagles would have 3 rings instead of the Pats by now.

Oh well.

I thought losing Buckhalter in that Rams game was what killed the Eagles. He was running all over their craptastic defense the entire first half.

Didn't Pinkston actually catch a TD in that game?

Good times...

Yes, I remember thinking his leg or arm was going to pop off after falling in the back of the endzone. Thank God he's bulked up from 150.

He's tipping the scales at 152.5 now.  In full pads.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 15, 2006, 05:57:17 PM
Yes, I remember thinking his leg or arm was going to pop off after falling in the back of the endzone. Thank God he's bulked up from 150.

I still contend that the Eagles missed him last year.

I know only like 2 people agree with me, but I don't care.

Oh, they did.  Sadly, they did.

Not that it would have mattered after the Denver game or so.

Even if he's healthy and has a career year we're still only 7-9 at best.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:25:39 PM
The TD pass to Lewis was great, but he panted and moved around in slow motion for 3 1/2 to 4 minutes before making that play.... so he didn't leave enough time on the clock to score again.

actually, this is where i fault the coaches.

there WAS enough time to get into FG range...but the biggest coaching blunder of the day was going for the onsides kick after they scored the TD. the success rate of an onsides kick is so small, that they realistically had no shot after that botched attempt (no other play in football needs everything to go so perfectly).

the onside attempt basically gave the field position back to the patriots. after the TD, there was 1:48 left. and they had 2 timeouts. if they had kicked off normally, the patriots eating the clock on the 3 and out may have gone a little differently if they were backed  up near their 30 yard line, instead of the eagles 40. getting almost 40 yards back on that last drive where they started with about 40 seconds left.

getting 20-25 yards in 40 seconds was something they could have very easily done with the dink and dunk o which was working that day.

There is no doubt that the coaching staff and players have yet to combine to hit one out of the park in the big game.

Quote from: Wingspan on May 15, 2006, 06:35:14 PM

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 15, 2006, 05:25:39 PM
The TD pass to Lewis was great, but he panted and moved around in slow motion for 3 1/2 to 4 minutes before making that play.... so he didn't leave enough time on the clock to score again.

actually, this is where i fault the coaches.

there WAS enough time to get into FG range...but the biggest coaching blunder of the day was going for the onsides kick after they scored the TD. the success rate of an onsides kick is so small, that they realistically had no shot after that botched attempt (no other play in football needs everything to go so perfectly).

the onside attempt basically gave the field position back to the patriots. after the TD, there was 1:48 left. and they had 2 timeouts. if they had kicked off normally, the patriots eating the clock on the 3 and out may have gone a little differently if they were backed  up near their 30 yard line, instead of the eagles 40. getting almost 40 yards back on that last drive where they started with about 40 seconds left.

getting 20-25 yards in 40 seconds was something they could have very easily done with the dink and dunk o which was working that day.

That's exactly correct.  I was there and the people I was at the game with were wondering why they didn't just kick off.  They had a better chance of holding the Patriots and getting the ball back at around the 35 yard line with 50 seconds left and getting into field goal range, than they did completing an onsides kick.   Oh yeah, brilliant strategy not having someone to return the punt either.  Go team.   :yay

Quote from: Eagles_Legendz on May 15, 2006, 09:56:50 PM.   Oh yeah, brilliant strategy not having someone to return the punt either.  Go team.   :yay

About as much success rate as an onside kick.  I am still fuming about those genius calls.

Quote from: rjs246 on May 15, 2006, 09:13:38 AM

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on May 15, 2006, 03:17:52 AM
I love how clowns hide behind the "realist" tag when bashing the team. Admit that youre a hater and get out from behind the "realist" cloak. I also like how people start off a good bash session by stating how long they have owned season tickets, been a fan or how they want to win as much as anyone.

We all have our opinions. Yours are on the hater side of things. Admit it. Embrace the darkside and live with it. And then man up when McNabb proves you wrong.

Phreak, you HAVE to get off the homer tip. There is a farging massive amount of real estate between your opinion of McNabb and actually 'hating' him. And believe me, reality lies in between. Your homerism has rocketed off the charts recently and frankly, you're embarrassing yourself.

I love that McNabb (along with Reid) have brought respectability, stability and occasional dominance to this team. I love his ability and occasionally love his attitude. He's obviously one of the better Qbs in the NFL right now and has been an effective leader.

I hate that McNabb (along with Reid) have ruined this franchise's best opportunities to win a championship over the past 6 years. He has come up so small when the stakes were he highest that only a blinded taterskins-esque homer would not see it.

You're the one who obsessively posts Art's quotes from ES in the point and laugh thread and you're sounding more and more like him by the second...

Not really. I just hate it when people who have a negative point of view on something use the term "realist" when stating thier opinion. I hear it all the time.

I don't care if you are a person who has a negative point of view. That's cool. Everyone has their own opinion. But don't paint a pile of shtein white and call it a snowman.

If you want to think something, go right ahead. I am generally half-full on my outlook. But I don't tell you that I'm being a realist when I say that. I say what I think and that's it. I do not try to say it like its fact and I am letting you all on a big secret like the folks who say "I'm a realist...." and then go into the negative aspect of things. What makes that person a realist? All they are doing is stating their opinon.

And thank you for comparing me to Art. I have a gun and a bullet and I'm ending it....now.

That's not what I said at all. McNabb has shown he can actually lead his team to a Superbowl. Talk to me when Manning does that.

mcnabb did it once...against a weak championship game oppoenent....whereas manning has lost to the superbowl champion the last three years

since the jets debacle in 2002 manning has actually been a better playoff qb against better competition...it was mannings first couple playoff games where he struggled...then again so did mcnabb...but in the last 3-4 years manning is better than mcnabb in numbers he has just happened to run into the qb that you say is clearly the best in the world (brady) and plays in a superior conference

manning is in another league as a qb than mcnabb




The whole lot of you McNabb uber-homers are nuts.  I love the guy, but he definitely has a few screws loose, and the way he's wired lends itself to some very questionable on-and-off-field decisions... and sometimes it seems like he doesn't have the strength of will to win that some of the great QB's of the present and past have had.


this is all that needs to be said....It burns when I pee

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 08:26:00 AM
...it was mannings first couple playoff games where he struggled...then again so did mcnabb...but in the last 3-4 years manning is better than mcnabb in numbers he has just happened to run into the qb that you say is clearly the best in the world (brady) and plays in a superior conference

manning is in another league as a qb than mcnabb

4 of 6 playoff appearances...manning lost in the 1st game.

the colts were down 21-3 in the 4th qtr before he threw his only TD

in 2004, after lighting up the broncos...he failed to score a TD vs the pats and lost 20-3

shut out in 2002 vs the jets.

manning lost his 1st three playoff games, where as mcnabb won 4 before before he lost his third

manning is a choker. he runs up the score vs pansies in the regular season, and hardly ever plays with any kind of consistancy when it matters.

manning = a-rod 
brady = jeter
mcnabb = ortiz

mcnabb = the braves without a world series

Quote"I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to win ballgames"

OMG McNabb isnt as good as Peyton Manning.  OMG McNabb sucks unless he wins the superbowl.   TO and Racism and World Wars, rape and pillage, apocolypse.  oh my.  rabble rabble rabble.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 09:18:58 AM
mcnabb = the braves without a world series

for now, i buy that

Quote from: MURP on May 16, 2006, 09:29:05 AM
rabble rabble rabble.

thats ridiculous :P

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 09:18:58 AM
mcnabb = the braves without a world series

That would be a good analogy, except for all the parts of it that suck.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 16, 2006, 09:34:38 AM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 09:18:58 AM
mcnabb = the braves without a world series

That would be a good analogy, except for all the parts of it that suck.

:-D

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 08:26:00 AM
That's not what I said at all. McNabb has shown he can actually lead his team to a Superbowl. Talk to me when Manning does that.

mcnabb did it once...against a weak championship game oppoenent....whereas manning has lost to the superbowl champion the last three years

So when McNabb lost to the eventual superbowl champs, he gets no credit. However, Manning does get credit for that. When McNabb get's his team to the superbowl, he gets no credit and you make excuses... When Manning fails to even get his team to a championship game for years, he gets credit for that.

It just sounds like you're inventing reasons. Peyton Manning is a great fantasy football player, which is how you appear to be looking at it. He's done very little in his career to prove he "in another league" than McNabb as far QBs go. That's just fantasy football talk.

So when McNabb lost to the eventual superbowl champs, he gets no credit.

sure he gets credit...even tho he singlehandedly lost the game for them....hes just not as good as manning

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 02:18:59 PM
So when McNabb lost to the eventual superbowl champs, he gets no credit.

sure he gets credit...even tho he singlehandedly lost the game for them....hes just not as good as manning

Manning and the Colts managed 3 points vs. the same Pats team that McNabb and the Eagles put 21 on.

in the snow at new england vs a neutral site with what was essentially an eagles home crowd....not exactly the same thing...in fact had the eagles been in the afc they go down just as hard in that situation

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 02:25:40 PM
in the snow at new england vs a neutral site with what was essentially an eagles home crowd....not exactly the same thing...in fact had the eagles been in the afc they go down just as hard in that situation

Way to spin it, it was cold but it was hardly snowing. The Pats didn't seem to have a problem moving the ball, here's a shot of Manning late in the 4th, where's all this snow you're talking about?

(http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/sports/football/indpls_colts/2004_season/img/090904sack.jpg)

And I find it extremely funny that McNabb played vs. the Falcons in worse conditions but is given no credit by you.

fine
you win
mcnabb is better than manning
i dont have time for this anymore

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 02:34:10 PM
fine
you win
mcnabb is better than manning
i dont have time for this anymore

Nope, never said McNabb was better. Just said he doesn't get the credit he deserves and that in the playoffs when it counts the most he's better than Manning.

McNabb gets plenty of credit and plenty of criticism.  Much of it is undeserved.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 16, 2006, 02:35:30 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 02:34:10 PM
fine
you win
mcnabb is better than manning
i dont have time for this anymore

Nope, never said McNabb was better. Just said he doesn't get the credit he deserves and that in the playoffs when it counts the most he's better than Manning.

i said mcnabb was better than manning. and i still say that.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 02:18:59 PM
So when McNabb lost to the eventual superbowl champs, he gets no credit.

sure he gets credit...even tho he singlehandedly lost the game for them....hes just not as good as manning

The defense lost that game for them. McNabb and TO were the only reasons they were even in the game. Plus the interior line on both sides of the ball got totally dominated.

For every great play McNabb made in the Super Bowl, he made a bad one.

That said, he played a lot better than the winning QB of Super Bowl XL did... not that that means anything at all.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:42:25 AM
unless he wins a sb mcnabb is just another very good qb in this league...hes in with a hundred others of his kind...hes joe theisman without a superbowl...

You should at the very least be flogged within' an inch of your life for that comment.
....and then banned...
....and then tied to a chair and made to listen to Joe Blow talk football until your ears burn off.

Give McNabb an Art Monk clone and you would see how dumb that sounds.

mcnabb 3 ints and his cluelessness in the final minutes lost the game

mcnabb 3 int
brady 0 int

thats your game right there

patriots gave up more yards and first downs and the eagles had a better 3rd down conversion rate

so if the eagles defense lost the game then how bad was the patriots defense?

it was bad enough to win the game because of the heinous red zone turnovers by mcnabb in the first half and him letting the patriots off the hook by inexplicably running the last four minutes of the game off he clock

Quote from: shorebird on May 16, 2006, 04:29:04 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 15, 2006, 10:42:25 AM
unless he wins a sb mcnabb is just another very good qb in this league...hes in with a hundred others of his kind...hes joe theisman without a superbowl...

You should at the very least be flogged within' an inch of your life for that comment.
....and then banned...
....and then tied to a chair and made to listen to Joe Blow talk football until your ears burn off.

Give McNabb an Art Monk clone and you would see how dumb that sounds.

IGY is on the record as saying he thinks Theezman is a good looking guy.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 04:30:11 PM
mcnabb 3 ints and his cluelessness in the final minutes lost the game

mcnabb 3 int
brady 0 int

thats your game right there

patriots gave up more yards and first downs and the eagles had a better 3rd down conversion rate

so if the eagles defense lost the game then how bad was the patriots defense?

it was bad enough to win the game because of the heinous red zone turnovers by mcnabb in the first half and him letting the patriots off the hook by inexplicably running the last four minutes of the game off he clock

Not all the INTs were his fault, and you can credit those INTs to some of the pressure through the interior that the Pats brought.

Also the end of the game was NOT on McNabb. That was on the coaches. It wasn't his choice to take his time at the end of the game.

Give McNabb an Art Monk clone and you would see how dumb that sounds.

so when all is said and done mcnabbs legacy will be that he was a great qb because he never had a wr like art monk...not because of anything he ever accomplished (whether it be great numbers or a ring)

man im sure he will be proud of that

Not all the INTs were his fault, and you can credit those INTs to some of the pressure through the internet that the Pats brought.

Also the end of the game was NOT on McNabb

what is on mcnabb exactly?

other than those hideous soup commercials


ps- theeseman IS HOTT

Again, McNabb was a non-factor in the Super Bowl because he cancelled himself out by making his share of plays for the Patriots as well as some plays for the Eagles.  The big underlying issue was that the Eagles were beaten on both lines.  HOWEVER, if McNabb had played like an elite QB, the Eagles would have won the game.  I don't think he had much of an opportunity to do so, but great players can beat adversity.  McNabb was not a great player in that game.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 04:36:40 PM
Give McNabb an Art Monk clone and you would see how dumb that sounds.

so when all is said and done mcnabbs legacy will be that he was a great qb because he never had a wr like art monk...not because of anything he ever accomplished (whether it be great numbers or a ring)

man im sure he will be proud of that

Might as well say he didn't have John Riggens in the backfield either.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 16, 2006, 04:39:14 PM
Again, McNabb was a non-factor in the Super Bowl because he cancelled himself out by making his share of plays for the Patriots as well as some plays for the Eagles.  The big underlying issue was that the Eagles were beaten on both lines.  HOWEVER, if McNabb had played like an elite QB, the Eagles would have won the game.  I don't think he had much of an opportunity to do so, but great players can beat adversity.  McNabb was not a great player in that game.

I'll always counter this argument with the lack of running plays Reid failed to call. Any player in this league that throws 51 passes against an excellent Pats D is going to make some mistakes, I put the onus on Reid for not even trying to establish a running game.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 02:18:59 PM
So when McNabb lost to the eventual superbowl champs, he gets no credit.

sure he gets credit...even tho he singlehandedly lost the game for them....hes just not as good as manning

Horseshtein, IGY.  McNabb definitely deserves some blame (as well as some credit for keeping them in the game), but to say he singlehandedly lost the game for them is reaching to prove your argument.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 16, 2006, 05:41:45 PM
I'll always counter this argument with the lack of running plays Reid failed to call. Any player in this league that throws 51 passes against an excellent Pats D is going to make some mistakes, I put the onus on Reid for not even trying to establish a running game.

The Eagles couldn't open a semblance of a hole in that game.  The Pats had the OL completely baffled.

but to say he singlehandedly lost the game for them is reaching to prove your argument

my only argument is that mcnabb is a good not great qb...and yes the superbowl supports such a position

They went with a 3 man line for much of the game and were dropping a lot of their defense into coverage. A running game might have worked if Andy would have adjusted to the Pats defense better.

Well, Andy's in-game tactics are often questionable.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 09:02:55 PM
but to say he singlehandedly lost the game for them is reaching to prove your argument

my only argument is that mcnabb is a good not great qb...and yes the superbowl supports such a position

Not when you say he singlehandedly lost the game.

Was he great?  No.

Was he good?  Not enough that night.  He was a might better in that game than Ben Roethlisberger was in this year's Big Game.  Ben will get suckled, though, because his team pulled him through.  McNabb gets blasted because he wasn't able to overcome the mistakes of the defense, the lines, the coaches, the receivers and, yes, himself.

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 09:02:55 PM
but to say he singlehandedly lost the game for them is reaching to prove your argument

my only argument is that mcnabb is a good not great qb...and yes the superbowl supports such a position

The entire offense went on his shoulders during the Superbowl. He had no running game...none. I can't remember a QB asked to do as much as he was in any Superbowl. If you can find one please enlighten me with their name. Because all the 'greats' you're about to mention like Elway, Montana, and Brady had a well balanced running game.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on May 16, 2006, 09:08:52 PM

Quote from: ice grillin you on May 16, 2006, 09:02:55 PM
but to say he singlehandedly lost the game for them is reaching to prove your argument

my only argument is that mcnabb is a good not great qb...and yes the superbowl supports such a position

The entire offense went on his shoulders during the Superbowl. He had no running game...none. I can't remember a QB asked to do as much as he was in any Superbowl. If you can find one please enlighten me with their name. Because all the 'greats' you're about to mention like Elway, Montana, and Brady had a well balanced running game.

Elway sucked until the last two years of his career.

This is kind of a silly argument, and I enjoy having a moderate opinion on it.

I just thought I'd share.

McNabb single-handedly kept the Eagles in that game.  If not for him they would have gotten their asses blown out that night because their running game was non-existent (helps to actually have a legitimate running back on the squad).

I know it's fashionable in certain circles to bash McNabb but all you need to do to see what the Eagles would be like without him is to watch "highlights" of the last 8 games of the 2005 season.  Mind-numbingly awful.

Quote from: FFatPatt on May 16, 2006, 09:10:36 PM
This is kind of a silly argument, and I enjoy having a moderate opinion on it.

I just thought I'd share.

I I believe that mine is fairly balanced.  McNabb could have done more to minimize his mistakes in the Super Bowl, and I haven't entered it at all regarding him compared to Brady/Manning/Montana/Jesus.

But when IGY said he lost it by himself, that's just plain nuts.  Even by IGY's standards.  :)

Donovan McNabb is the #1 reason we didn't win that game but he's not the #1 reason we lost it. If he doesn't throw those bonehead picks in NE territory, we're SB champs, but our O and D lines lost us that game.

Yeah well if the Eagles run the ball nine times and pick up zero yrds the three times they were in the redzone they win by six because the at least salvage three points each trip.

What lost us that game?  Two key things that have nothing to do with players.

1.)  Accepting the opening kickoff.  When the birds won the toss and elected to receive I remember thinking "Uh-oh, not a good move."  The Super Bowl halftime is 30 minutes long.  Giving Charlie Weiss 30 minutes to draw up a game plan after seeing what the birds were bringing was the kiss of death.  It was quite obvious the way the Pats manhandled the birds in Q3.

2.) Wasting a time out earlier in the second half.  To this day we have never heard why the birds had only two timeouts.  What happened to that third one?  All I remember is they had to burn a timeout in the third quarter I believe for some reason and FOX showed Burgess all pissed off because they wasted a timeout as they cut to a commercial.  I don't think it was because of him.  We don't need to even get into what an extra timeout would have meant on that final drive.

If he doesn't throw those bonehead picks in NE territory, we're SB champs

WINNER!

Quote from: Don Ho on May 17, 2006, 01:23:14 AM
1.)  Accepting the opening kickoff.  When the birds won the toss and elected to receive I remember thinking "Uh-oh, not a good move."  The Super Bowl halftime is 30 minutes long.  Giving Charlie Weiss 30 minutes to draw up a game plan after seeing what the birds were bringing was the kiss of death.  It was quite obvious the way the Pats manhandled the birds in Q3.

Um...you must be thinking of college rules.  In the NFL, the team that wins the coin toss gets the choice for the first half.  The other team gets the choice for the second half - it is not necessarily the opposite (the team may choose to kick if they think wind will be an issue).  The option to defer choice only exists in college ball.

Eagles | McNabb discusses his future as a quarterback
Tue, 6 Jun 2006 09:50:15 -0700

Les Bowen, of the Philadelphia Daily News, reports Philadelphia Eagles QB Donovan McNabb answered a couple questions regarding how he sees himself in the future at quarterback during a question-and-answer session Monday, June 5. When asked how much longer he sees himself playing, McNabb said, "actually see myself playing about 10 more years... I love this game. I love the competition, the team camaraderie, the potential for success. That's something I take pride in, bringing confidence to the team that every week, 'We can go out here and win this game." When asked what kind of quarterback he expects to be in the next seven or eight years, McNabb responded, "They'll probably still be talking about me not scrambling. I kind of see me being a mentally stronger and wiser quarterback, like a Jim Kelly or a Dan Marino. Not to say I'll be stuck in the pocket, but you know where guys are going to be, you can kind of anticipate a little bit more... John Elway, at 37, was still getting out of the pocket."

throw in "accurate" too donny, why not....your were on a roll

Well if he wants to play ten more years he won't be able to scramble the way he used to that is for sure.

Funny that he'd pick Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.  They have an important similarity to Donovan.

They're both victims of black on black crime?

Quote from: Diomedes on June 06, 2006, 08:00:33 PM
They're both victims of black on black crime?

They both made at least one trip to the Super Bowl, but neither could close the deal.

Oh, silly me!

i understand the natural progression and i dont want him to scramble when he doesnt need to or get hurt but sometimes it seems like he hesitates when in the past he would have turned up and ran for a 10+yd gain on his own.

it does seem that way...and the usual, predictable result is failure.

Quote from: Magical_Retard on June 06, 2006, 08:21:09 PM
i understand the natural progression and i dont want him to scramble when he doesnt need to or get hurt but sometimes it seems like he hesitates when in the past he would have turned up and ran for a 10+yd gain on his own.

I agree as well.  It seems like a manifestation of his extremely stubborn attitude of late. 

Quote from: NGM on June 06, 2006, 08:35:20 PM

Quote from: Magical_Retard on June 06, 2006, 08:21:09 PM
i understand the natural progression and i dont want him to scramble when he doesnt need to or get hurt but sometimes it seems like he hesitates when in the past he would have turned up and ran for a 10+yd gain on his own.

I agree as well.  It seems like a manifestation of his extremely stubborn attitude of late. 

I agree on both counts, he definately should take off from time to time it would help keep the defense honest.  He certainly could slide or go out of bounds. 

Quote from: FFatPatt on June 06, 2006, 07:58:59 PM
Funny that he\'d pick Jim Kelly and Dan Marino.  They have an important similarity to Donovan.

Some very, very good and great QBs never won a SB. Some decidedly mediocre ones have won. That \"you can\'t be a great QB if you haven\'t won a superbowl\" crowd makes me sick.

What's with all your posts having slashes in them?

Some very, very good and great QBs never won a SB. Some decidedly mediocre ones have won. That \"you can\'t be a great QB if you haven\'t won a superbowl\" crowd makes me sick.

Quote from: Bunkley78 on June 06, 2006, 10:54:34 PM
What\\\'s with all your posts having slashes in them?

Some very, very good and great QBs never won a SB. Some decidedly mediocre ones have won. That \\\\\\\"you can\\\\\\\'t be a great QB if you haven\\\\\\\'t won a superbowl\\\\\\\" crowd makes me sick.

I have to use a proxy server to post here. Anytime I use apostrophes or quotation marks, back slashes get added.

\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

Happy birthday \!

Thanks!!


\\\" \\\' \\\" \\\'

QuoteRich Hofmann | Give it a rest, Donovan
TRAINING IN ARIZONA NOW SEEMS ILL-ADVISED

IN YESTERDAY'S Daily News, Donovan McNabb was quoted as saying, "Barry Bonds said it best - the problem with people is that they feel they don't know much about you,

but the only thing [people need to] focus in on is my job. Am I

doing my job correctly, am I

doing the right things?''

Fair enough. McNabb's job now, a month-plus before the start of training camp, is to make sure he is as recovered

as he can be from the sports

hernia/groin injuries that would have ruined his 2005 season even if Terrell Owens had not done his thing.

Which makes you wonder:

After this endlessly voluntary minicamp ends next week, why is he going back to his home in Arizona to train some more?

You remember Arizona, the place where he first suffered

the sports hernia last summer.

Why not just rest up for camp?

"I'm a machine,'' McNabb said at a news conference yesterday, reaching for a laugh, which is what he does.

"Just like a little kid you tell he can't have any candy, he is still reaching in the candy jar,'' he said. "If you're training, you're working. You are not going to pull back because you hurt yourself before. I am going to work harder and try to avoid it and hopefully I will avoid that injury.

"When I am in the weight room I am not going to pull back on the weight, I'm not going to get out on the field and pull back on the running. I am going to

prepare myself to make sure I am in the best shape possible coming into camp. I think when you do that mentally it prepares you knowing that I'm ready to go. If anything, I am a competitor first and foremost.

"If we are walking to the bathroom, the cafeteria, I am going to try and beat you,'' McNabb said. "I am not going to slow down just because I hurt myself maybe the day before. Maybe

I'll just avoid the step where I got hurt and move forward.''

This all might just be talk.

McNabb might very well have

tailored his personal workouts so that whatever he did the last time to start the sports-hernia process, he won't do again. He

is not always the king of the straight answer. You do have

to wade through a little of his standup routine sometimes.

But this a very serious issue. Again, it is about the job. There is no psychology here, no sociology. We had Randall Cunningham on the couch here for a long time, and we don't need McNabb taking his place anymore. He is right, and this really is about the job. This is about getting healthy, and not doing anything risky now.

He stayed around Philadelphia this year to rehab following surgery, and that was good. It would be crazy for him to push it while he is off on his own, while he says he is feeling good.

Because this whole saga did

begin before training camp last summer. Right?

"It's tough to say when it comes to a sports-hernia injury,'' McNabb said. "It seems like we just heard about a sports-hernia injury once I got it. But there is really not an explanation for it. To say you get it from overwork, or overexerting yourself, or paying too much attention to core training. A lot of guys do that but they don't get hurt. Some guys do get hurt and it's not

going to stop me from doing it.

"But, again, it's the offseason. It's a perfect opportunity to work on your body a little bit. Pool parties are available so I want to be the one with my shirt off and have some ripped abs. Maybe get a cover shot for some magazine, you never know. You need to feel confident in your body. You don't want to be the guy with your shirt on by the pool, do you?''

Laugh, laugh. Again with the jokes. But you did get hurt before you came to camp last year, right?

"Well, I felt I tweaked it before camp,'' McNabb said, finally

acknowledging out loud what people have been muttering for months.

"I came into camp with a minor injury,'' he said. "We worked through it and instead of it getting better I think it got a little worse. I just continued to fight through and continued to focus on what I needed to do to help the team win and I guess the

Dallas game is when everything exploded. I tore my groin and

everything else fell right into place.

"Maybe the best thing was to have the surgery early, but I didn't think so. I wanted to play. I wanted to make sure I was on the field making plays for the team.''

This is not to second-guess the surgery decision, or the decision to play through the pain, or

anything - because that is all it would be, a second-hand second-guess. This is just a suggestion instead, strictly about the job:

Do your cardio. Do whatever maintenance work the Eagles' trainers suggest. And then do yourself a favor and put your feet up - because starting in late July, you're going to be

carrying a heavy enough weight as it is.

QuoteAshley Fox | Donovan, hold back a wee bit in training
By Ashley Fox
Inquirer Columnist

    * Safeties give Birds benefit of the doubt
    * More on the Eagles

Donovan McNabb was being facetious, but his point was valid. With summer approaching, McNabb doesn't want to be that guy at the pool wearing a T-shirt because his gut is too big.

While he's training this off-season, rebuilding the strength and flexibility in his midsection that was damaged last fall by a sports hernia, McNabb should remember this: In a couple of months, he doesn't want to be that quarterback on the sideline in a T-shirt because he worked out too much.

Sound funny? Perhaps. But McNabb acknowledged yesterday that the genesis of the injury that dogged him throughout the 2005 season occurred during the off-season. He said he probably "tweaked" his midsection while going through a grueling workout regimen in Arizona. He tried to control the injury once he reported to the Eagles for training camp, but only aggravated it. Everything finally collapsed in that Nov. 14 debacle against Dallas.

So please, Donovan, do us all a favor and hold back just a little bit. Don't tweak the midsection again doing something pedestrian like bench pressing a little more than you should. Don't subject us to another struggling backup quarterback, be it Jeff Garcia or Koy Detmer. We've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

"I'm a machine," McNabb said yesterday when asked whether he might pull back just a little bit from his training regimen this off-season. He delivered the line in a deep, hard voice and straight face, before laughing at the absurdity of the comment.

"It's just like a little kid," McNabb continued, now not joking in the least. "You tell him he can't, he can't, and he's going to try to reach his hand in the candy jar. I mean, if you're training and you're working, you're not going to pull back just because you hurt yourself before. You know, I'm going to work harder, and try to avoid it, and hopefully I will avoid that injury.

"When I'm in the weight room, I'm not going to pull back on the weight. I'm not going to get out on the field and pull back on the running, I'm going to prepare myself so that I'm in the best shape possible coming into camp. I think when you do that, mentally it prepares you, knowing that I'm ready to go."

That is all well and good, but it is nerve-racking nonetheless. Without observing every exercise McNabb does, it's impossible to know whether he is doing too much. Only he knows how his body is responding, so only he can be the real judge.

But it would be a shame for McNabb's pride and ego to interfere with his judgment. Time will tell. Injuries don't lie.

In the good-news department, McNabb has spent the better part of this off-season in town, a departure from his normal routine of sweating out the spring and summer in Arizona. In addition to retooling his midsection, focusing more on flexibility and less on adding bulk, McNabb has spent more time than ever before working with his receivers. They have thrown two to three times a week even when the Eagles haven't had voluntary minicamps such as the one that started Monday.

The time together is good, given that the Eagles don't have a star in the receiver mix. Reggie Brown, who said he tries to pattern his game off the Rams' Torry Holt, admitted that he needs the work as he grows comfortable with his new "No. 1 receiver" tag. Coming off a major Achilles injury, Todd Pinkston needs the work to regain his timing. Greg Lewis needs it, too, although he wouldn't say so because he is "boycotting" the media for some reason right now.

McNabb has heard the criticism that the receivers won't be good enough to get the Eagles back to the Super Bowl. He doesn't buy it, and, really, he can't.

"Well, just sit back, relax and enjoy," McNabb said when asked about the receivers. "I've never been in a situation where I would sit and talk bad about my receivers... . People have been talking about my receivers ever since T.O. showed up, and they'll continue to do it now that he's gone.

"We kind of use that as a little motivation going into each year, each game, each practice, to make ourselves better. We have some guys who can make some big plays for us. We have some guys who are going to make big plays this year, and we look forward to that. I just want to give them the opportunity to do that."

Of course, McNabb has to be healthy for that to happen.

When the Eagles break camp late next week for the remainder of the off-season, McNabb finally will return to Arizona, where he said he feels most comfortable. He has invited several teammates - receivers, running backs and defensive backs among them - to join him, and expects several will.

And for better or worse, McNabb won't pull back. There is the pool to consider.

"I'm a competitor first and foremost," he said. "If it's walking to the bathroom or walking to the cafeteria, I'm going to try to beat you. I'm not going to slow down just because I hurt myself maybe the day before. Maybe I'll just avoid the step where I got hurt and move forward."

Both columns posted on the same day.

Brilliant!

:-D

i understand the natural progression and i dont want him to scramble when he doesnt need to or get hurt but sometimes it seems like he hesitates when in the past he would have turned up and ran for a 10+yd gain on his own.

to his credit he did say yesterday that hes been looking at film and there were times last year that he should have run but "couldnt" because of the injury...while that may be true i would have liked him to have said "didnt".....still tho it was nice to hear him acknowledge that he needs to run

QuoteWe've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

Man, she's a total embarrassment as a sportswriter.

:-D

CSN video clip:  DMac explains what a running QB is (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/eagles/060606-mcnabb.wmv)

Thanks for the clarification.  We were all confused.

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 07, 2006, 08:11:16 AM

QuoteWe've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

Man, she's a total embarrassment as a sportswriter.

:-D

thats called a muffin top--hurry up....tell your friends

Quote from: BigEd76 on June 07, 2006, 10:31:17 AM
CSN video clip:  DMac explains what a running QB is (http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/media/video/eagles/060606-mcnabb.wmv)

Thanks for the clarification.  We were all confused.

...and what the hell is he throwing out Jake Plummers name for as being anything "successful"?

Quote from: reese125 on June 07, 2006, 10:46:41 AM

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 07, 2006, 08:11:16 AM

QuoteWe've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

Man, she's a total embarrassment as a sportswriter.

:-D

thats called a muffin top--hurry up....tell your friends

I thought that was called Dunlop disease?

Quote from: ice grillin you on June 07, 2006, 08:04:57 AM
to his credit he did say yesterday that hes been looking at film and there were times last year that he should have run but "couldnt" because of the injury...while that may be true i would have liked him to have said "didnt".....still tho it was nice to hear him acknowledge that he needs to run

Agreed.  It was good to hear him acknowledge that he needs to run more.  It'll be even better when we actually see him act upon it.

Quote from: sallad selgae on June 07, 2006, 11:58:46 AM

Quote from: reese125 on June 07, 2006, 10:46:41 AM

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 07, 2006, 08:11:16 AM

QuoteWe've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

Man, she's a total embarrassment as a sportswriter.

:-D

thats called a muffin top--hurry up....tell your friends

I thought that was called Dunlop disease?

No, it's actually called Dunlap disease.  ;)

I think the new latest term is " cupcaking".

Quote from: Sgt PSN on June 07, 2006, 07:51:08 PM

Quote from: sallad selgae on June 07, 2006, 11:58:46 AM

Quote from: reese125 on June 07, 2006, 10:46:41 AM

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 07, 2006, 08:11:16 AM

QuoteWe've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

Man, she's a total embarrassment as a sportswriter.

:-D

thats called a muffin top--hurry up....tell your friends

I thought that was called Dunlop disease?

No, it's actually called Dunlap disease. ;)

Quote from: sallad selgae on June 08, 2006, 08:50:16 AM

Quote from: Sgt PSN on June 07, 2006, 07:51:08 PM

Quote from: sallad selgae on June 07, 2006, 11:58:46 AM

Quote from: reese125 on June 07, 2006, 10:46:41 AM

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on June 07, 2006, 08:11:16 AM

QuoteWe've seen what happens with you out of the lineup, and it's uglier than a flabby belly hanging over a swimsuit.

Man, she's a total embarrassment as a sportswriter.

:-D

thats called a muffin top--hurry up....tell your friends

I thought that was called Dunlop disease?

No, it's actually called Dunlap disease. ;)

quotie quote quote

What I was trying to post, son, is that we here in Texas talk different. 
Therefore, it's Dunlop.
Dunlap is the Yankee derivation of a term originally coined in the south.

Good Q & A with McNabb. (http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16805234&BRD=1675&PAG=461&dept_id=18170&rfi=6)

QuoteMcNabb ready to wash 2005 out of his hair

06/18/2006

By BOB GROTZ bobgrotz@aol.com PHILADELPHIA -- The only book Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb plunges into these days is his War and Peace-length playbook. In high school his must-read was John Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men," and not by accident. McNabb loves suspense. Coincidentally the plot seems to illustrate how even the most meticulous and well-intentioned plans to start over, if you will, can go wrong -- and murderously wrong, at that.


While much has gone right in a seven-year NFL career, McNabb, just five months from his 30th birthday, is turning the page on it all.

The first segment of his career has been rewarding and it features a 67-33 record in 100 starts and five Pro Bowl appearances. At the same time, it's been unfulfilling, as in no Super Bowl title. Injuries have prevented McNabb from finishing two of the last three seasons.

McNabb expects to be heavily scrutinized this year in the wake of the Eagles' disastrous 6-10 campaign compounded by injuries, the personality clash with wide receiver Terrell Owens, and ironically, the lack of quality depth at quarterback.

To prove his sensational 2004 season wasn't a fluke or merely the by-product of the superstar receiver, McNabb embarked on an ambitious training program that has made him feature material for muscle magazines. He's welcomed the competition at quarterback in former Pro Bowl teammate Jeff Garcia.

McNabb has leaned on family, coaches and teammates to flush '05 from his system, and vows to do whatever is necessary to get back on top, whether that means leaner, meaner or both.

McNabb believes the Eagles will return to their Super Bowl greatness of '04.

That said, no one knows better than McNabb that even "the best-laid schemes o' mice an' men," as Scottish poet Robert Burns put it, are a slam-dunk.

McNabb, for example, feels great physically, estimating he's shed four pounds and lowered his body fat from 14 percent to 10 this offseason. Last year he felt similarly great yet arrived for training camp with a sports hernia from "overuse."

"No one has come up with a reason as to why," McNabb said. "It wasn't any one thing and I think that's kind of the whole frustrating part about it. You would like to find out exactly what you did to make that happen so you can avoid it."

Eagle teammates don't remember seeing McNabb in better shape, although that may be partly attributable to the fact that only three have been with the team longer, a list topped by safety Brian Dawkins.

Though McNabb has never been more prepared to play football, he expects skeptics to weigh in, as they did last year.

"People want to see what's going to happen with me," McNabb said. "To be honest, it's not going to be any different than the last couple of years. That's the quarterback position -- when things go right you get a lot of the credit. When things go wrong, you get a lot of the criticism."

In an exclusive interview, McNabb addressed several issues.

- Bob Grotz: You?ve taken some shots the past few years. Do you feel injury prone?

- Donovan McNabb: No, not at all. Yeah, I've taken some shots but nothing to harp on. As a quarterback you get hit. But I'm not injury prone -- at all.

- BG: What signs have you seen from teammates that you're a leader in light of the divided locker room of last year?

- DM: I don't have to have signs. I've been the leader of the team. Despite what happened last year I'm still the leader of the team. That's something that doesn't go unnoticed. It's not something where I have to walk around and let everybody know that I'm the leader of this team. I just focus in on my job and just prepare everybody for what we'll be facing.

- BG: How much of a help will Jeff Garcia be this season?

- DM: I expect Jeff to come in and be a quality guy. I mean, I've known Jeff for a while now. We were at Pro Bowls together. We've communicated at different functions on and off the field. On the field we've competed. So Jeff can come in and bring another part of leadership for the younger guys to see how hard he's working, how hard I'm working, and how hard the rest of the guys in the locker room have to be working. And also he's a guy that if something was to happen again (injury wise), he can come in and kind of keep the beat going.

- BG: Do you see him pushing you?

- DM: Definitely. And I'm not a guy that sits and says, 'The job is all mine, I don't have to worry about it.' I compete each time I'm on the field. Any time you relax and think, 'I'm good, I don't have to do anything,' that?s when you kind of take steps back and you're trying to figure out what you need to do to get back to where you need to be. I compete with Koy (Detmer). I competed with (Mike) McMahon when he was here.

- BG: Those other quarterbacks haven't won as many games as Jeff. Isn't Jeff more of a threat to your job?

- DM: This isn't anything where I'm going at Jeff or Jeff is coming at me. We're out there to make this team better. That's what a quarterback does. You're out there to make the 10 guys around you better. Whether I'm in there or Jeff is in there, it's the same process.

- BG: Any commitments from teammates for your training regimen in Arizona next month?

- DM: I haven't really presented it. It's something that when guys look at their schedules, then they'll find out if they'll be able to make it and then we'll get answers.

- BG: Is Jeff going to be there?

- DM: Jeff might be able to come out there. He lives in California so it won?t be that tough for him to get there.

- BG: We know who your No. 1 receiver was the last two years. Who is it this year?

- DM: It's hard to say. Reggie (Brown) obviously is the guy everybody looks at. Reggie is definitely progressing. We're doing some good things together. Jabar (Gaffney) and I are doing some good things together. Greg Lewis is doing a great job -- our tight ends and (Brian) Westbrook. So it's hard to pinpoint one particular guy because it's not like there's been a guy that's been in this offense for five or six years and you could say, 'This is the No. 1 guy.'

- BG: Doesn't a wide receiver have to step up and separate himself from the pack?

- DM: That should be a mentality for everybody, not just at the receiver position. That should be the same way for the defensive backs, the linebackers, the D-tackles and the quarterbacks as well. When you're out on that field you want to give a spark to your team where it can rely on you and feel comfortable and confident that you will be the one to get the job done. What happens is the trickle-down effect. It's contagious. Everybody else wants to step up and make that big play to change things around.

- BG: Do you feel you have enough weapons right now to be a big-play offense?

- DM: I definitely do. The thing about this offense and what we've kind of hung our hat on the last couple of years was that everybody has the opportunity to make something happen for this team. And I think we have the firepower on this team at each position where we can kind of get guys going and we can be a powerful offense. My mentality this year has been the same the last three or four years. I want to us be in the top five in offense -- preferably No. 1 passing and running the ball.

- BG: The offense ran the ball more and you seemed more willing to run after Owens was suspended last year. Is that the type of offense we'll see this year?

- DM: You will see a lot of things from last year that you will see this year. We're going to throw the ball but we're also going to run the ball. It's going to be an offense that you've seen a lot already.

- BG: Have you gotten over criticisms you personally don't run enough? Will you do so if that's what it takes to win?

- DM: If it's a called pass, you go through your progressions. If it's there to get the ball out, you get the ball out. If nothing is there, then you use your ability. That's just my game.

cont'd...

Quote- BG: How much do you expect to be under the microscope this year?

- DM: People are going to be watching to see how we bounce back from last year but that's the same with any team that's had success for five straight years and you have a down year. Carolina was under the microscope and they bounced back.

- BG: Terrell Owens' book comes out in July. Do you ..

- DM: I personally don't even care. I'm sure you will ask me some questions about it. You guys will be doing your job. And you might get frustrated with some of my answers but again, I will just say I personally don't care when the book comes out and what it says because it has nothing to do with what we do this year.

- BG: Have you put the issues with Owens behind you?

- DM: I've put it behind me. I've moved on for a long time. I mean, I said what I had to say. It's over. Let?s move on.

- BG: Your father Sam, felt the criticism of you last season reflected negatively on your parents, and the way they raised you. How do you feel about it?

- DM: My parents are the greatest in the world. And parents have feelings as well. I mean, I don?t know how some of the other parents feel about their kids but we took it on the chin and we moved on. We're smiling now. We're enjoying life and we're moving on in the right direction.

- BG: You said at the first minicamp you weren't there to make friends ..

n DM: I'm not here to win friends. That's kind of high schoolish or grammar schoolish. When you're in this profession, you're here to do a job. You're not here to entertain. You're not here to calm people down, to win ball games. They put you at the quarterback position because they feel confident you can do your job and make the guys around you better. It's all about winning games.

- BG: You recently said you would like to play another 10 years. That would mean playing 17 years in the NFL, the last at age 40.

- DM: I'd like to play another 12 years where they have to throw me out of the league. Maybe they will do a story about that: 'Will he ever retire? No.' But I won't hold you as long as Brett (Favre) did (in announcing his return). I'll just say,'?yeah, I'll be back.'

- BG: Why would you want to play that long if you win a Super Bowl before then?

- DM: One guy I definitely enjoy as far as his attitude and determination is Tom Brady. Tom has won three Super Bowls. You can talk about Peyton (Manning), you can talk about other guys who everybody loves and everything they do but here's a guy who's won Super Bowls. I mean, he could just ride off into the sunset now but he loves the game. And that's my attitude. If we win the Super Bowl this year, I want to win another one. If we win it the next year, hey, let's get another one. I want to be like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson and have rings on almost all your fingers. And then hopefully they'll throw me out of the league. I enjoy it. I love the game.

- BG: Your father said he expects you to be the Donovan McNabb of two years ago, and the Eagles to be back where they were two years ago -- the Super Bowl.

- DM: I feel the same way. I mean, again, that's my dad talking but I'm not the 25, 26, 27-year old kid anymore. I'm 29. I know after being in this game for a while the kind of things I need to do to be successful, and that's kind of my approach.



?DelcoTimes 2006

I stopped reading the second time the article brought up the idea that Garcia has any possible chance of jumping up the depth chart.

Then you missed the 3rd time he came up.  When referencing workouts in AZ:

Quote- BG: Is Jeff going to be there?

- DM: Jeff might be able to come out there. He lives in California so it won?t be that tough for him to get there.

:-D

QuoteTwo coins add up to make 30 cents and one of them is not a nickel.  What are they?

The two coings are a Quater and a nickel. While one of them is NOT a nickel, the other one is.

Quote from: Munson on June 18, 2006, 11:51:32 PM

QuoteTwo coins add up to make 30 cents and one of them is not a nickel.  What are they?

The two coings are a Quater and a nickel. While one of them is NOT a nickel, the other one is.

;D :yay

Quote from: Munson on June 18, 2006, 11:51:32 PM

QuoteTwo coins add up to make 30 cents and one of them is not a nickel.  What are they?

The two coings are a Quater and a nickel. While one of them is NOT a nickel, the other one is.

Munosn has the wost manneans

Hah, oops....Coins*

(http://www.susbirder.com/cf/bearguy.jpg)