Every year, every team says it's their goal to win the Super Bowl, obviously that is a more realistic goal for some teams over others. Ever since the Eagles lost the NFCCG to St. Louis, their realistic goal each season was to get to and win the Super Bowl. What if that isn't the true goal this year?
Donovan still has at least 5 good years in him, the RB, WR, TE, secondary (except dawk) are all young. What if the goal this year, instead of patching holes to make another run at the Super Bowl, is to go with the youth movement, especially along the OL and DL and rebuild towards a Super Bowl run next season, or the one after that. Not necessarily sacrificing this season, but using it mainly to get these young guys (Herremans, Jackson, Clarke, Young, McCoy, Brown) ready to make a run?
It sounds somewhat stupid, but there is some evidence to suggest this may be the plan:
- Shawn Barber - a cheap, one-year WIL who knows the system, he may be ok, but they won't have a problem mixing in McCoy at his spot because he isn't making a lot of money
- They targeted LeCharles Bently, a young stud C that they could build their revamped line around, but when they didn't get him, didn't go after Mawae
- They didn't sign or trade for a #1 reciever, someone that could stunt Reggie's development
- They still haven't signed Runyan, or any other OL help, making it more likely that they will go with all youth on the line and probably draft a LT to replace Tra next year
So, it's possible that they are willing to take their hits with the growing pains this year in hopes that they are able to build to a run in the next couple years. It would certainly explain why they have made some of the questionable moves that they have made this offseason.
clearly the goal isnt to win the superbowl this year....but that doesnt make it right
you dont waste years in the 'not for long' league
I think the current Eagles FO and decision-makers is always looking toward having the best chance to win over the next 5+ years instead of going all-out to win in the present year. I think the goal's always been to have long-term success at the possible cost of shorter-term veteran depth and success.
I love the philosophy, and I also hate it.
Andy Reid hit the reset button on his 4 year plan once McNabb got hurt last year.
Good article by Rich Hofmann on this very philosophy:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/football/14156861.htm
QuotePosted on Wed, Mar. 22, 2006
Putting it to the test
Birds sticking to cap philosophy even after 6-10
THIS IS THE perception, widespread and unchanging. It is of a bizarre marriage ceremony being played out in a continuous loop, throughout the Delaware Valley, in a recurring regional nightmare.
Minister: Who gives this woman in holy matrimony?
Joe Banner: I do.
Minister: Do you, Andy Reid, take this woman, Sally Recap-Room, to be your lawfully wedded wife? To have and to hold, for better or worse, in sports hernias and in health, till death do you part?
Reid: I do.
Minister: You may kiss the bridesmaid.
Every night, right about then, you wake up screaming. You sit up in bed and you look across the room, to see if the window is closed. It isn't. Comforted, at least a little, you try to go back to sleep, counting the days to minicamp. You are more successful some nights than others.
And so it goes, as the Cowboys land Terrell Owens, and the Giants try to remake their secondary, and the taterskins do their annual shuffling, and the Eagles sign Jabar Howard Garcia-Schobel and tell you everything is going to be all right.
You have no choice but to believe them. This is the year when the Eagles' core philosophy undergoes its most stern test, and there is nothing any of us can do other than watch it play out. A 6-10 season clearly has changed nothing about how they do things.
People who have called them arrogant in the past have been wrong - the Eagles have just been consistent in their beliefs. But if this thing blows up as they stick to their knitting, after a year like last year, the word will fit and they really will have to live with the fallout.
That they now have two ways to lose the argument - if the team falters again, or if the team is solid but the Cowboys (with T.O.) sprint past them - is obvious. Can you imagine what those Eagles-Cowboys games are going to be like? The guy has been like a jobs program for columnists since he arrived in Philadelphia, and now Owens is going to give us all another year of easy duty. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
But none of this clearly matters to the Eagles. That is the lesson of the offseason so far.
For them, this is all about talent evaluation and not overspending, about list-making and a methodical, plodding, check, check, check, check, check.
The point all along has been that the Eagles did not need an infusion of superstar talent on this roster. The rest of the division got better, yes, but anyone who watched the Cowboys, taterskins and Giants last year saw three highly flawed teams.
What the Eagles needed was an infusion of bigger, professional players - guys with some size (because they really have become too small in too many spots), and guys with some experience who can step in and play the game immediately.
So far, you see the Eagles embracing some of that thinking, but only some. It has been kind of hit-and-miss. Darren Howard, coming off a down year in New Orleans, is a 275-pound defensive end. You wish he was bigger, but they are desperate for pass-rushing help there. And if they were going to spend money at one position, that was it - and that's what they did.
Matt Schobel, the new backup tight end, is a receiving type. You would rather have a backup tight end with great blocking skills - especially when the starter, L.J. Smith, doesn't have them - instead of a guy who is proud of how much his blocking has improved. But another passing-game weapon is worthwhile.
Jabar Gaffney has some size (6-1, 205) and is advertised as a slot receiver. That is what this team needed, more than anything. No one knows if Gaffney is the guy, but he fits the type. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with the wideoutamania that has gripped this city for years now, but the truth is that they can make this work by spreading the ball around - provided Todd Pinkston is healthy and productive, and provided they come up with a real, legitimate, bigger option at running back to complement Brian Westbrook and Ryan Moats.
If they don't get him, they're cooked. But there's still time, you would think.
The backup-quarterback situation, with the addition of Jeff Garcia, is improved. Shawn Barber's return at linebacker is OK - but even with either him or Matt McCoy starting, there are still size issues there.
Elsewhere, they are still short a defensive tackle, and they need another veteran offensive lineman, be it Jon Runyan or somebody else. And that's at the minimum.
It is going to be August before we know if they've checked off everything they need. Even then, we haven't really talked about the two most important things - a healthy Donovan McNabb at quarterback and a willingness by the coach to call running plays, at least a little. Everything else falls in line behind them.
so are we drafting Dawks replacement this year? I'm a firm believer in Dawk be very productive for next couple years. I don't think Considine is it, are we getting another S this year in draft?
I've been thinking the very same thing, Sun. That the Eagles don't think they're in the Super Bowl hunt this year signing one big name in FA- so they're concentrating on the draft, laying a foundation to make a run over the next several years.
Of course, what do I know... I'm just a middle school teacher.
Quote from: Geowhizzer on March 22, 2006, 12:42:24 PM
I've been thinking the very same thing, Sun. That the Eagles don't think they're in the Super Bowl hunt this year signing one big name in FA- so they're concentrating on the draft, laying a foundation to make a run over the next several years.
isnt that what they always do?
i dont see how their goal is that different than any other year.
other than 1 year, it's worked.
Quote from: Wingspan on March 22, 2006, 12:44:52 PM
other than 1 year, it's worked.
Has it? I don't see a Lombardi Trophy at the NovaCare complex.
Has it? I don't see a Lombardi Trophy at the NovaCare complex.
"gold standard" = "mission accomplished"
even so i cant hate on them at all for the superbowl year...they made a huge effort in the offseason to take the team from nfc championship contender to superbowl contender...its the years prior to 04 that digust me...the years when they clearly needed something extra to get over the hump and did nothing..all those years are gone now and as you said nothing to show for it...while the minesota atlanta nfc championship game remains one of the two best sporting events ive ever been to in general all those good years including 04 are now a 'what if' curse as opposed to something i look back on with good feelings...and i hate them for that
you mean atlanta, right?
Quote from: ice grillin you on March 22, 2006, 01:01:17 PM
while the minesota nfc championship game remains one of the two best sporting events ive ever been to
Which game was that, exactly?
i got it handled, but thanks though
the goal hasn't changed one bit...they're still trying to make money.
Quote from: hunt on March 22, 2006, 01:06:40 PM
the goal hasn't changed one bit...they're still trying to make money.
Ask Bob Kraft... the two goals need not be mutually exclusive.
That article is dead on. This year is a true test to see if Andy/Heckert/Banner's way of doing things is the right way or not. Since the middle of last year, everyone and their momma has been shteinting on the Eagles every chance they've gotten and we've had to grin and bear that shtein with the thought of "The team will return in 2006 healthy, we've got the #14 pick, and a shteinload of cap room to adequately fix the holes that showed themselves last season." You can't ask for a better situation if you're looking to bounce back from a down year.
In the back of my mind though, I've had the fear that they would simply write off last season as being, "all about injuries..." and "all about T.O." and that no doubt was part of the equation, but there were also holes that were brought to light in a major way. While they seem to have addressed some adequately (Howard, Garcia and even Schobel) they've seemed to keep things status quo on others (Barber, Jones, DT). Not saying that things need to be blown up and start all over again, but a 6-10 season where you went 0 for the division calls for at least some change in the way things are done. This FA period to this point, saw the Eagles fill some holes no doubt, but also miss on a lot of other chances to improve IMO.
I'm not going to sit here and say the FO doesn't care about winning, because I don't think that's the case... but when you see quality players in areas of need, going elsewhere (and a number of them at pretty reasonable prices)... it's kind of tough to swallow that the Eagles won't even entertain a visit. I dunno if that should be the approach of a team coming off a 6-10 season. But we should all listen to Spads when he says that "The Eagles really didn't like any FA ___'s out there on the market, but they love 'random UDFA'."
I've loved this FO's way of doing things in seasons past... and despite how this may have sounded, I think the philosophy largely has been a sucessful one. But I hope a sometimes "unwillingness to change" doesn't get things going in the wrong direction.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on March 22, 2006, 11:41:30 AM
Every year, every team says it's their goal to win the Super Bowl, obviously that is a more realistic goal for some teams over others. Ever since the Eagles lost the NFCCG to St. Louis, their realistic goal each season was to get to and win the Super Bowl. What if that isn't the true goal this year?
Donovan still has at least 5 good years in him, the RB, WR, TE, secondary (except dawk) are all young. What if the goal this year, instead of patching holes to make another run at the Super Bowl, is to go with the youth movement, especially along the OL and DL and rebuild towards a Super Bowl run next season, or the one after that. Not necessarily sacrificing this season, but using it mainly to get these young guys (Herremans, Jackson, Clarke, Young, McCoy, Brown) ready to make a run?
It sounds somewhat stupid, but there is some evidence to suggest this may be the plan:
- Shawn Barber - a cheap, one-year WIL who knows the system, he may be ok, but they won't have a problem mixing in McCoy at his spot because he isn't making a lot of money
- They targeted LeCharles Bently, a young stud C that they could build their revamped line around, but when they didn't get him, didn't go after Mawae
- They didn't sign or trade for a #1 reciever, someone that could stunt Reggie's development
- They still haven't signed Runyan, or any other OL help, making it more likely that they will go with all youth on the line and probably draft a LT to replace Tra next year
So, it's possible that they are willing to take their hits with the growing pains this year in hopes that they are able to build to a run in the next couple years. It would certainly explain why they have made some of the questionable moves that they have made this offseason.
SunMo, you cant really believe this? You think Andy, Jeff and Tom sat down after the season and said, "Man, what a zesty season boys....well...looks like we got to rebuild now huh?" What impact players did we lose, besides T.O., that alters your decision of how well we do this season? You know what Barber is going to do? He could make the ProBowl this year for all we know? He got a 1-year because of his injury..smart by the eagles. Bentley is the 3rd best OL in the league--there is no youth movement there.You know how old the NE Patriots front line was on offense when they won 3 Superbowls? Take a peek. I think the average age was 27.
The only organizations that go in with the mindset of "we'll be ok this year" are the Niners and Texans, not playoff/superbowl caliber teams that come off one bad season in 6 years. The only question I have are the WR's, but again we all question that every year.....
I am not convinced that the Eagles are a superbowl caliber team at thsi point. McNabb and the returning injured should make them a playoff team again, but it's possible that they are onnly the second or third best team in their division.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 02:27:16 PM
I am not convinced that the Eagles are a superbowl caliber team at thsi point. McNabb and the returning injured should make them a playoff team again, but it's possible that they are onnly the second or third best team in their division.
and I agree, but had they truly wanted to be a Super Bowl caliber team, they could've accomplished that with their cap room, but they only added marginal players, feeding my theory that they are slightly rebuilding this year.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 02:27:16 PM
I am not convinced that the Eagles are a superbowl caliber team at thsi point. McNabb and the returning injured should make them a playoff team again, but it's possible that they are onnly the second or third best team in their division.
....and did anyone even remotely think the Seattle Seahawks were before the season started last year?
Yes. Lots of people did, actually.
haha
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 02:33:29 PM
Yes. Lots of people did, actually.
yeah really, try again.....every single analyst finally gave them props around the 12th game of the season. All of them on TV said the same teams as usual...Patriots, Colts, Eagles, Carolina.
Look, smart stuff, everyone recognized that Seattle was a playoff team and that they were one of only a few NFC teams that had what it took to be contenders. What do you want? A notarized spreadsheet of all of the pundits who said that Seattle would be the bestest NFC team? To use them as some sort of comparative example when talking about the Eagles is laughable.
actually lots of people have been on the seahawks since 04 as the nfc favorite...they played like dogs that year but came back and did what everyone expected last year
I agree with Eaglefeva....
I think howard is for the long term...schobel to back up LJ incase he keeps farging up and/or injured....gaffney and barber only to plug up holes......
McNabb, westbrook, Dawkins, Trotter, Lewis, Brown, Kearse are the main veterans on the team, other than runyan that we can sustain a competitive team and carry us for the next 2 years. I think we're ok....
other than not bringing in hutchinson and bentley...its been a normal non-exciting eagles offseason. (kearse and TO were the exception)....so we can pretty much expect another mundane draft and a competitive 'team' on the field as long as we're healthy.
I trust the FO but it sucks to feel like we've missed the boat. Because, again, what the farg can I do about it?
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 02:42:00 PM
Look, smart stuff, everyone recognized that Seattle was a playoff team and that they were one of only a few NFC teams that had what it took to be contenders. What do you want? A notarized spreadsheet of all of the pundits who said that Seattle would be the bestest NFC team? To use them as some sort of comparative example when talking about the Eagles is laughable.
if you could provide that for me, that would be great..thanks.
Ownt? Yes.
Look at the teams and how they played in the super bowl. Really it is anyone's ball game in the NFC. The Eagles did enough to be competative but didn't make strides to seperate themselves from the pack. I really think that there wasn't much they could do about that this year because of the condition of the FA market and every team getting room under the cap. I think they are in the mix this year and maybe make a more serious run next year. Who knows though. Once TO torches us for 500 yards in that first game we're done like dinner.... ;)
edit
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 02:42:00 PM
Look, smart stuff, everyone recognized that Seattle was a playoff team and that they were one of only a few NFC teams that had what it took to be contenders. What do you want? A notarized spreadsheet of all of the pundits who said that Seattle would be the bestest NFC team? To use them as some sort of comparative example when talking about the Eagles is laughable.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview05/news/story?id=2152292 (ftp://http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview05/news/story?id=2152292)
Man, look at all of those Seahawks fans Rjs...hahaha ;)
Stop making a fool of yourself.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 03:09:22 PM
Stop making a fool of yourself.
before you come back with a smartass remark.....back your statements up
In case you didn't notice, the Seahawks were one of the teams mentioned as a playoff team in the example that you just posted by several of the collected idiots employed by ESPN. Playoff teams have a shot and they were one of several to be picked. But you, know. You totally TOLD me. I'm so embarrassed.
By the way, I'm sure you're working on a truly biting comment in retort. Don't waste your breath. This whole back and forth is an idiotic aside to the original conversation. Several people recognized Seattle as contenders last year. You can choose to believe that or not. I don't really care.
Quote from: rjs246 on March 22, 2006, 03:20:15 PM
In case you didn't notice, the Seahawks were one of the teams mentioned as a playoff team in the example that you just posted by several of the collected idiots employed by ESPN. Playoff teams have a shot and they were one of several to be picked. But you, know. You totally TOLD me. I'm so embarrassed.
several huh....spit on those glasses, rub em..and look again guy (2 picks by how many experts). ;)
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 22, 2006, 12:47:39 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on March 22, 2006, 12:44:52 PM
other than 1 year, it's worked.
Has it? I don't see a Lombardi Trophy at the NovaCare complex.
no. but they have been serious contenders for 4.5 out of 6 years
serious contenders for the nfc
Quote from: reese125 on March 22, 2006, 03:05:25 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview05/news/story?id=2152292 (ftp://http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview05/news/story?id=2152292)
Man, look at all of those Seahawks fans Rjs...hahaha ;)
every single person picked the eagles except for hoge. he's so smart.
I don't buy that theory.
If they were rebuilding they wouldn't be signing Shawn Barber. They'd be giving the job to Matt McCoy to see what he can do.
If they were rebuilding they wouldn't go out and sign Darren Howard.
If they were rebuilding they wouldn't sign a 36 year old backup QB - they'd go with a young player there with a lot of upside who can be molded.
Sure they are going young at some positions. But you need a good mix of young and old on a team. And I think that is what they are doing.
Great thread,
Mo.
FF's first post is very good, too.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 22, 2006, 01:09:15 PMAsk Bob Kraft... the two goals need not be mutually exclusive.
Kraft is a dirty man.
And reese, you're mistaken. Seattle got plenty of respect going into last season.
I think the fact is, is that the Eagles have a plan and come hell or high water that plan is not going to change. The contract size to player ability ratio this offseason was not viewed in their favor so the chose not to act on big names. This may lead to a perception of rebuilding but the entire point of their plan is that they will never have to completly rebuild. I am not saying I agree with this but the Eagles will spend top dollar if they think the player is worth it.
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 22, 2006, 11:47:57 AM
I think the current Eagles FO and decision-makers is always looking toward having the best chance to win over the next 5+ years instead of going all-out to win in the present year. I think the goal's always been to have long-term success at the possible cost of shorter-term veteran depth and success.
I love the philosophy, and I also hate it.
The end of this quote really sums it up.
We're (Eagles) are winners but in a league of 32 teams with millions to spends it's also a business. It's hard to stay on top but the Eagles do that. Making a run to the SB every year is just well simply impossible.
Yet were here, we chat and we beleive.
Quote from: 4and26 on March 22, 2006, 10:27:49 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on March 22, 2006, 11:47:57 AM
I think the current Eagles FO and decision-makers is always looking toward having the best chance to win over the next 5+ years instead of going all-out to win in the present year. I think the goal's always been to have long-term success at the possible cost of shorter-term veteran depth and success.
I love the philosophy, and I also hate it.
The end of this quote really sums it up.
We're (Eagles) are winners but in a league of 32 teams with millions to spends it's also a business. It's hard to stay on top but the Eagles do that. Making a run to the SB every year is just well simply impossible.
Yet were here, we chat and we beleive.
Quote from: Diomedes on March 22, 2006, 10:46:25 PM
Quote from: 4and26 on March 22, 2006, 10:27:49 PM
Yet were here, we chat and we beleive.
Appalling.
and still, here we are. and here we will be.
the Eagles will spend top dollar if they think the player is worth it.
this is where i have a problem...there has to be a middle ground...somewhere btwn the archulettas and the bentlys
you have to be able to seperate the players individual worth to that of his worth to the team
using a 1-10 scale...if you have a positon on your team that you currently rate a 2 and theres a player out there that you rate a 7 you may pay him 9 or 10 money because youre upgrading the position on the field exponentially even tho the player himself may not be worth that kind of dollar
The Eagles don't have any 2's. Greg Richmond = 7.