so i was thinking of joining the airforce. i know some of you on here have previous military experience or are currently in the military so i figured i might pick your brains. i wanted to fly fighter jets before and was getting prepped to apply at the air force academy. unfortunately my vision wasn't up to par and the plans were scrapped to make a long story short. a while ago i heard the vision requirements might have been dropped down so i checked the airforce sight. it says 20/70 correctable to 20/20 but lasik disqualifies you. mines like 20/60.. but how does that make sense? you can't have fixed vision, but you can wear a pair of glasses pulling like 8 G's. are the requirements more leanient in other branches? is it worth joining up and getting free school and on job training and seeing what happens later on? are you able to do school while your in? what happens when 4 yrs is up? are you kicked out on your ass? any suggestions, information, or experiences would be appreciated.
It won't help you get chicks so just cut it out.
quickest response in history. almost as quick as the last time you were with a chick. :o
chicks love airforce kung-fu anyway, im sure.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on January 31, 2006, 04:58:07 PM
lasik disqualifies you.
There go my dreams. Thanks a lot, icehole.
I was USAF for 10 years, but I didn't fly planes. I was a plain old enlisted guy. So, I'll answer these questions:
Quote
is it worth joining up and getting free school and on job training and seeing what happens later on? are you able to do school while your in? what happens when 4 yrs is up? are you kicked out on your ass?
If you get a good career (something very technical, like electronics, networking, satellites, etc), the education and OJT is top-notch. You will learn more in one year than you would in five by going the enter a career at the bottom rung and work your way up method. After the initial year of formal classroom training and OJT training, you will then be able to go to school in the evenings and weekends, usually on base. The USAF pays 80% of tuition, and 50% of books -- at least when I was in. I finished my last three years of college while in the USAF, earning two associates and one bachelor's degree. Then, I started my MBA and got it half finished before getting out (where I finished it completely). After four years, it's up to you what happens. You can elect to stay in, you can elect to get out. If you get out, you can elect to stay in the general area where you are if you have a job lined up (for me that was St. Louis area), or you can go back to your home of record when you joined. The USAF willpay for shipping all your crap back to there if that's what you want.
Joining the USAF was the best choice I ever made. Getting out -- after using them for what I needed -- was the second best choice I ever made.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on January 31, 2006, 05:05:35 PM
IJoining the USAF was the best choice I ever made. Getting out -- after using them for what I needed -- was the second best choice I ever made.
Subtract USAF and insert USN and you have my response.
Ditto
There are waivers for everything in the Air Force. My father was in for 30 years, and saw plenty of pilots who didn't meet the vision requirements. I even knew a C-141 pilot awhile back that had to wear glasses pretty much everywhere. You may not get to fly fighters because of the competition, but the larger jets may be a possibility. Try to talk to your congressperson to see if they can help (yes, I am serious).
Do you already have a college degree of some type from a real school? If not, forget the whole flying the planes deal. Unless, you want to go in enlisted, bang out your degree then do the swap over to officer. Even if you have the degree, becoming a pilot is a long shot in any service, especially if your vision was so-so before you got it corrected.
If you are just going in for school and/or OJT, I would recommend the Air Force, Coast Guard, and Navy, in that order. If you have other reasons for going in, like wanting to get some discipline, patriotic, etc., I would recommend the Army or Marines. I was in the Marines, and am biased, but currently work daily with Army personnel. They are the more "serious" branches, no offense to any other service, but your chances of getting shot at and having to shoot back ramp up. That may be something you want nothing to do with, and if so, I would recommend steering clear of them both, especially the Marines (just about everyone in the Marines can and a lot of times wind up being infantry in a pinch).
Whatever decision you make, remember that if you join any of the branches, none of them are going to say, "Hey, now that you are here, go to college! We'll pay!" or "Hey, you should go to this duty station because it'll be cool." Once you're in, there are so many things available for you to take advantage of, but no one is going to make sure that you use them, other than you.
One final passing thought, whatever you do, before you sign the dotted line, look at it from every possible angle. While there are advantages, there are also a lot of disadvantages. They vary from service to service, and MOS to MOS (MOS= Job). Make sure you are aware of all the aspects, and weigh them carefully. I would also recommend seeking out people who are in the service and talk with them. Try to find people that are still in, my feelings about the entire process were very different when I was in as compared to a few years after I got out. Overall, I enjoyed the hell out of it, and would do it again if I had to make choice to make again.
LBI, I'm not totally up to speed on the vision requirements for pilots however not all pilots fly fighters that travel at excessive speeds. Cargo planes and helos don't reach anywhere near the same speed as fighters so wearing glasses or contact lenses wouldn't be an issue for them. Maybe that's what they're talking about.
Also, in order to be a pilot in any branch of service you need to already have a 4yr degree. Do you currently have one? Doesn't matter what it's in, you just need to have one. If you do then you can go directly into the <insert branch here> as an Officer and try out for flight school.
If you don't currently have a 4yr degree then you've got 2 options.
1. Get your degree, then go in as an officer.
2. Enlist and attempt to get your degree while serving.
There are several enlisted to officer commissioning programs available in the service, depending on how much college you've already completed (if any). I'm pretty sure all branches of the service have the same programs but they may call them by different names. I'll give you the Marine version.
Enlisted Commissioning Program (ECP): This is a program for enlisted Marines who already have a 4yr degree and wish to become a Commissioned Officer. I believe the only prerequisite is that you have at least 2 years in service with no adverse punishments.
Broadened Opportunity for Officer Selection Training (BOOST) and Marine Enlisted Commissioning Program (MCEP) are 2 other programs available that will allow you to go to college full time and still recieve your active duty pay and allowances. Click here for more info. (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinetrng/a/enlcommission.htm)
All branches of the military have Tuition Assistance available for Active Duty members. Tuition Assistance pays 100% of your college tuition while you attend school on a part time basis (nights and weekends). All military bases have an education office to sign up for this program and they usually have a selection of several different schools you can attend. You may choose a local community college or a larger college or university that has a "satellite campus" located on or near your base.
Obviously, other branches of service may have different requirements but the basic foundation of their commissioning programs will be fundamentally the same.
As a recruiter (and a relatively good one at that) I can give you a lot of "inside scoop" on what to expect from any recruiter you talk to. Some recruiters lie. It's a sad but true fact. Some recruiters will stretch the truth a little or focus solely on one specific aspect that really suits your individual needs. My advice to you before talking with any recruiters is to make a list of your long term and short term goals. Make a list of what you're hoping to get out of the service. Is it college money, a specific skill, travel, etc? Prioritize them according to what's most important. These are the things that you want to focus on talking with the recruiter about.
If you start talking to a recruiter about one thing and he tries to send the conversation in another direction, don't be afraid to tell him that's not what you're interesting in hearing about. If you don't feel you are making any progress with him/her then simply end the conversation and think him for his time. Also, don't go into the recruiting office to talk. Call them up and schedule an appointment at your house. Make them come to you. If you go in their office then you are on their turf. They are comfortable, confident and relaxed. Bring them to your place though and they are out of their element and will be a little more "well behaved' so to speak. Also, don't have the appointment with the recruiter by yourself. Include your parents, siblings, girlfriend/wife (or both :D ), grandparents and anyone else you can find. I don't care if you're 28 years old, have your parents there. Recruiters hate parents because parents always as questions that make recruiters extremely uncomfortable. And that's a good thing.
If you need any more info about the service in general (the benefits are the same regardless of which branch) or about how to deal with a recruiter, send me a pm. Also, if you have any doubts about the validity of what the recruiter told you, let me know and I'll tell you if he's bs'ing you or not.
Quote from: Sgt PSN on January 31, 2006, 06:42:51 PM
LBI, I'm not totally up to speed on the vision requirements for pilots however not all pilots fly fighters that travel at excessive speeds. Cargo planes and helos don't reach anywhere near the same speed as fighters so wearing glasses or contact lenses wouldn't be an issue for them. Maybe that's what they're talking about.
Also, in order to be a pilot in any branch of service you need to already have a 4yr degree. Do you currently have one? Doesn't matter what it's in, you just need to have one. If you do then you can go directly into the <insert branch here> as an Officer and try out for flight school.
If you don't currently have a 4yr degree then you've got 2 options.
1. Get your degree, then go in as an officer.
2. Enlist and attempt to get your degree while serving.
There are several enlisted to officer commissioning programs available in the service, depending on how much college you've already completed (if any). I'm pretty sure all branches of the service have the same programs but they may call them by different names. I'll give you the Marine version.
Enlisted Commissioning Program (ECP): This is a program for enlisted Marines who already have a 4yr degree and wish to become a Commissioned Officer. I believe the only prerequisite is that you have at least 2 years in service with no adverse punishments.
Broadened Opportunity for Officer Selection Training (BOOST) and Marine Enlisted Commissioning Program (MCEP) are 2 other programs available that will allow you to go to college full time and still recieve your active duty pay and allowances. Click here for more info. (http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marinetrng/a/enlcommission.htm)
Obviously, other branches of service may have different requirements but the basic foundation of their commissioning programs will be fundamentally the same.
As a recruiter (and a relatively good one at that) I can give you a lot of "inside scoop" on what to expect from any recruiter you talk to. Some recruiters lie. It's a sad but true fact. Some recruiters will stretch the truth a little or focus solely on one specific aspect that really suits your individual needs. My advice to you before talking with any recruiters is to make a list of your long term and short term goals. Make a list of what you're hoping to get out of the service. Is it college money, a specific skill, travel, etc? Prioritize them according to what's most important. These are the things that you want to focus on talking with the recruiter about.
If you start talking to a recruiter about one thing and he tries to send the conversation in another direction, don't be afraid to tell him that's not what you're interesting in hearing about. If you don't feel you are making any progress with him/her then simply get up and walk out. Also, don't go into the recruiting office to talk. Call them up and schedule an appointment at your house. Make them come to you. If you go in their office then you are on their turf. They are comfortable, confident and relaxed. Bring them to your place though and they are out of their element and will be a little more "well behaved' so to speak. Also, don't have the appointment with the recruiter by yourself. Include your parents, siblings, girlfriend/wife (or both :D ), grandparents and anyone else you can find. I don't care if you're 28 years old, have your parents there. Recruiters hate parents because parents always as questions that make recruiters extremely uncomfortable. And that's a good thing.
If you need any more info about the service in general (the benefits are the same regardless of which branch) or about how to deal with a recruiter, send me a pm. Also, if you have any doubts about the validity of what the recruiter told you, let me know and I'll tell you if he's bs'ing you or not.
Get your hands out of my pot you bitch.....go find your own "
poolies". :-D
HA!
Excellent post by Sgt PSN. All I have to add is if you are going in for just the training, service and college, consider the Air Force Reserves or Air National Guard. This is not the way to go if you are looking for a career or to fly. Flyers almost always come from Active Duty to the Guard or Reserves.
As for the LASIK, they still accept PRK (an old method) but I know they were working to get Lasik accepted. I really haven't kept up if it has been accepted by the USAF and I doubt the recruiters do either (sorry Sassy). If you are really serious, I can make some calls to USAF optometrists to find out. The concern about Lasik was it was relatively new and they weren't sure of the long-term effects of flying after having had the surgery.
If you don't have your bachelors degree, you wont' be commissioned. If you have your bachelors, they are very selective about the pilots. You have to know that you may not be selected for a pilot slot or may wash out of school. I would make sure I had it in writing that you were going to pilot school.
Also, the military can be difficult on your family, if you have one or plan to have one while serving. There are some AF bases in the U.S that are in remote locations, so you have to evaluate if that is important to you. In the Air Force, the saying is you go for the job, not the location. Some people accept this more easily than others. There's a million more things to talk about but this is probably a good start.
Good point about washing out of pilot's school.
A good buddy of mine was in pilot's school, and doing one of his fly-with-the-instructor lessons. They had been warned about hot-dogging and the like, but this guy was a real rebel. He decided to go vertical unexpectedly (this is in the training jet), and pulled a shteinload of G's. The instructor blacked out.
He was a scope-dope (navigator) for the rest of his USAF career....
Sound like your buddy watched Top Gun a few times too many.
Try the Army...unless you are not wanting to go to Iraq.
thanks alot for the input guys.
sarge, i will definitely be in touch with you about what i'm told, i didn't know you were an active recruiter. i am aware of recruiters telling you what you want to hear so any advice is appreciated. that program allowing you to obtain a degree full time while still obtaining full time commission is quite interesting.
i don't have a degree, and i am aware of the bachelor degree requirement to fly being as you have to be an officer. joining up just to be patriotic isn't my reasoning behind it.. school, experience, and no money to do what i want to do is my main motivation. looking at other branches is obviously an option, but i would think flying in other branches would be more difficult to accomplish due to less opportunity. i'm not looking for an easy way out, but my vision is the concern. fighters are what i want to fly, cargo planes and the like aren't particularly appealing.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on February 01, 2006, 11:14:14 PM
i don't have a degree, and i am aware of the bachelor degree requirement to fly being as you have to be an officer. joining up just to be patriotic isn't my reasoning behind it.. school, experience, and no money to do what i want to do is my main motivation. looking at other branches is obviously an option, but i would think flying in other branches would be more difficult to accomplish due to less opportunity. i'm not looking for an easy way out, but my vision is the concern. fighters are what i want to fly, cargo planes and the like aren't particularly appealing.
Jesus Christ, the guys who are dying over there every day are just like you. WTF are you thinking? Go back to school. Live poor and get through school. Build a life for yourself. Don't just get in line.
/just sayin'
I've been waiting for you to chime in bro. I thought you were getting soft on us..........or enlisting. ;D
I had a long commentary written out but I simply can't post it here.
I'll just say that I agree 100% with Dio on this.
:-X
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on February 01, 2006, 11:14:14 PM
thanks alot for the input guys.
sarge, i will definitely be in touch with you about what i'm told, i didn't know you were an active recruiter. i am aware of recruiters telling you what you want to hear so any advice is appreciated. that program allowing you to obtain a degree full time while still obtaining full time commission is quite interesting.
i don't have a degree, and i am aware of the bachelor degree requirement to fly being as you have to be an officer. joining up just to be patriotic isn't my reasoning behind it.. school, experience, and no money to do what i want to do is my main motivation. looking at other branches is obviously an option, but i would think flying in other branches would be more difficult to accomplish due to less opportunity. i'm not looking for an easy way out, but my vision is the concern. fighters are what i want to fly, cargo planes and the like aren't particularly appealing.
It is harder than you think. When you enter flight school, if you make it they put you where they want you. It could be a cargo or bomber. The better you do, the more choice they give you. The Academy guys do really well and have the connections.
Good point about the Academy guys PC. They're already in the "network". They've got hookups they don't even know about simply because they are Academy graduates.
Quote from: L-ong-B-each-I-ggle on February 01, 2006, 11:14:14 PM
thanks a lot for the input guys.
sarge, i will definitely be in touch with you about what I'm told, i didn't know you were an active recruiter. i am aware of recruiters telling you what you want to hear so any advice is appreciated. that program allowing you to obtain a degree full time while still obtaining full time commission is quite interesting.
i don't have a degree, and i am aware of the bachelor degree requirement to fly being as you have to be an officer. joining up just to be patriotic isn't my reasoning behind it.. school, experience, and no money to do what i want to do is my main motivation. looking at other branches is obviously an option, but i would think flying in other branches would be more difficult to accomplish due to less opportunity. I'm not looking for an easy way out, but my vision is the concern. fighters are what i want to fly, cargo planes and the like aren't particularly appealing.
Dude, I have to be honest and blunt with you. What you just said there are honestly some of the worst reasons to go in the military. You have to remember first and foremost that the military is just that.....a military. While they will give you some benefits and some opportunities, you become part of organization that is built solely to make war, and currently is doing so. You have to understand (I'm not saying you haven't thought about it already), that after you sign the dotted line, they are going to get their time/money's worth out of you. They aren't offering to send you to college and give you top notch training so you can be a better person, it's so in the end, you become a better war fighter. In the Marine Corps I used to think, "Higher up is going to get their one-pound of flesh, so I gotta get mine." Meaning that they are taking all the time while you are in, you're going to work- a lot, and most likely will at times be asked to do things you really don't want to do, so you had better get the most of the benefits you are interested in. Forget all the shtein you have seen in movies, or the pictures in the pamphlets you've been given. I am not trying to talk you out of this whole thing, but you really should sit and think awhile about all of the other factors that go along with it. Say you do become a fighter pilot (BTW, there aren't many pilots in other countries anymore that will go toe to toe with an American fighter jet), your bread and butter will be supporting the infantry on the ground, dropping bombs on the bad guys. Is College, Experience and not having money enough motivation to end peoples lives...putting your own life at risk to do so?
I tell most people who ask me what I thought about being in the service, that I loved it, I would do it all over again, and it is true. However, I knew exactly what I was getting into when I went in the Marines. My brothers (2) were in, my father and his brother were in during Vietnam, and my grandfather fought on Iwo Jima. Never for one second did I think it was going to "ball". I got to see parts of the world I would have never seen otherwise, do things and learn things I never thought possible, and experience some of the greatest joys I have had in my rather young life, including meeting my wife. Given that, it was never out of my head that if it came down to brass tacks, I would have to be in a position to shoot and kill people if I was told to so, and also be put in
extremely dangerous situations based on a decision by someone I never met.