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Eagles => Eagles Talk => Topic started by: MURP on January 27, 2006, 04:43:21 PM

Title: Next years starting Oline
Post by: MURP on January 27, 2006, 04:43:21 PM
If Runyan does bolt to another team are we looking at  Herremans, Hicks, Jackson, Clarke, Andrews.   The average age of this line is somewhere around 25 years old.   A little inexperienced for a super bowl run?   :paranoid  Of course this assumes that Tra is done, Runyan doesnt resign and Jackson beats our Fraley.  Which I dont think is too far fetched.  Most of the FA talk has been on the Dline/LB/WR area.  hmmmmm
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: rjs246 on January 27, 2006, 04:47:46 PM
In a perfect world they resign Runyan to a reasonable contract and keep Andrews at RG. Herremans steps in and is awesome and Jackson proves to be the upgrade over Fraley that everyone seems to expect.

In this world they are probably going to have to bring someone in. Hutchinson would provide veteran stability, but he's probably a pipedream. Who else is out there?
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: General_Failure on January 27, 2006, 04:48:05 PM
I don't think Andrews is ready to move to tackle just yet. He'd be fine the two or three times a game he had to run block, but I'd hate to see him up against a quick DE.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 27, 2006, 04:49:17 PM
Last I've heard, Tra is likely a go for 2006.  So, they'd probably move Herremans to RT and allow Clarke and Jackson to duke it out with Hicks and Fraley for the LG and C gigs, respectively.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: MURP on January 27, 2006, 04:53:34 PM
whats the deal with Tra's back issues.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: ice grillin you on January 27, 2006, 04:57:56 PM
Herremans, Hicks, Jackson, Clarke, Andrews

holy trainwreck batman

can we let andrews learn how to play guard and lose a 100 pounds before we move him to tackle...he would be a human doggie door at tackle right now

hicks is a great multi dimentional back up...not sure if i want him starting

everyone else up there is a question mark
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Sgt PSN on January 27, 2006, 04:59:21 PM
An o-line that young scares me and excites me at the same time.  Yeah, they may be a little rough around the edges but given time to gel they could be a solid line for years to come ala Chiefs/Seahawks. 
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: ice grillin you on January 27, 2006, 05:01:44 PM
given time to gel they could be a solid line for years to come ala Chiefs/Seahawks.

just in time for when pat devlin will be the eagles starting quarterback


the eagles need to win the superbowl NOW!!!
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: BigEd76 on January 27, 2006, 05:02:52 PM
I know he was a RT at Arkansas, but I'd rather keep Andrews at RG where he could be a dominating guard for the next 10 years like a Larry Allen.  At LG, our problems would be solved by signing Hutchinson, but it doesn't appear that it's going to happen...
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 27, 2006, 05:03:08 PM
Quote from: MURP on January 27, 2006, 04:53:34 PM
whats the deal with Tra's back issues.

I heard he'd been putting off the surgery, but decided to go on the shelf and get it done last season... so he should theoretically be 100% for training camp.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Feva on January 27, 2006, 06:07:37 PM
Quote from: BigEd76 on January 27, 2006, 05:02:52 PM
I know he was a RT at Arkansas, but I'd rather keep Andrews at RG where he could be a dominating guard for the next 10 years like a Larry Allen.  At LG, our problems would be solved by signing Hutchinson, but it doesn't appear that it's going to happen...

Hell yeah... I love what he should be able to bring at RG.  A big, powerful guy who won't get bull rushed right back into Donovan and can clear the way every once in a blue moon when AR decides to run the ball.  When I think about him at RT... I figure he'll be OK, but inconsistent and having trouble with anyone with any kind of speed.  Let's groom Herremans there if we need to.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: General_Failure on January 27, 2006, 06:09:24 PM
Now if only he knew where he was going when he has to get out in front and block on screens.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: stillupfront on January 28, 2006, 12:55:16 AM
I don't see Andrews at T. He has short arms and that makes it impossible to pass block tall lean guys on the edge. You can't learn longer arms.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: pinoyboy2pt0 on January 28, 2006, 02:07:05 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if I saw:

Winston (Miami)-Clarke-Jackson-Andrews-Herremans

or Tra/Runyan in there.

Andrews working in space would be horrible at T.  He's a G for the rest of his life.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on January 28, 2006, 08:25:55 AM
I am not high on Eric Winston at all. I would prefer that they not take him.

The big question is the bookends here. The interior 3 will be solid. I am rooting for Jamaal Jackson big time because I have been high on him for two years now. Plus I like seeing someone who can handle the A-gaps. Fraley is a good student of the game but he is too small. If Jackson can pick up the blitzes and continue to get stronger (and stay healthy!) I think they have a good player there.

I also do not want Andrews at RT. He is best suited to be an interior OL. He has great feet and pretty good speed for a 380 dude. But he does need to get into that 340 area. His broken leg hurt him last year because he couldn't work out as much as he did his rookie year. All the time was spent rehabbing the leg. I still have high hopes for him too.

Artis, who I like, seems to be best suited for the 6th man role. They need to find a LG and that guy should be Adrien Clarke. The Clarke-Jackson-Andrews trio has serious potential.

So we're back to the OT's. I really think they should re-sign Runyan. Losing him will hurt. But I think we all should prepare for it because I'd 'cap his chances of being back here at about 30%.

I think Todd Herremans will be the opening day RT next year.

Thomas
Clarke
Jackson
Andrews
Herremans

With Hicks the 6th man and if Tra goes down again, Artis takes over his best spot...LT. He was at his best out there and when he went from 315 to 335 to withstand the beating of an interior OL i think it hurt his game. Get back to 315 and be ready in case Tra goes down again.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Larry on January 28, 2006, 09:17:49 AM
I think Andrews will get his shot at RT.

Reid wouldn't trade up for the guy and spend a relatively high first rounder on him (which also entails a big contract) just to keep him at guard.

Moving him to tackle would be more "cost efficient".  >:D

Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on January 28, 2006, 09:21:12 AM
So would starting Todd Herremans at RT.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 28, 2006, 09:21:23 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 28, 2006, 08:25:55 AM
I said exactly what FF said, but took a lot longer to get the idea out.

Yep.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Larry on January 28, 2006, 09:22:53 AM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on January 28, 2006, 09:21:12 AM
So would starting Todd Herremans at RT.

Even more so with Herremans at LT.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: ice grillin you on January 28, 2006, 11:08:56 AM
adrien clarke 7th round never started an opening day
jamaal jackson UFA never started an opening day
todd herremans 4th round saginaw valley never started an opening day
shawn andrews promising but overweight and not yet proven

if you want to win a superbowl and these guys make up 4/5 of the offensive line the eagles are in big trouble...if you wanna look towards the future and see some young guys try to be developed then you should be excited for this scenario...

but imo thats for teams that were 4-12 last year and are looking to get better...me personally i want a superbowl run this season...keep runyan get hutchinson or another veteran or two and mix a couple of these young guys in....but they cant under any circumstances go in next year with the above foursome and a shaky tra thomas

Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 28, 2006, 12:27:38 PM
If Tra is healthy, I'd like him back.

If they want to go with more experienced guys, they still have Hicks and Fraley instead of Clarke and Jackson.  Either Jackson or Hicks would be a great 6th man for the OL.

That said, Andrews needs to 'slim' down to no more than 335-340.  I would love to see a guy like Hutchinson brought in or another younger, proven lineman, even if they really like Herremans at RT.  If Andrews or Clarke or Hicks can't outplay for a starting spot, then they don't deserve one.

No way Runyan's back, unless he gets very little interest as a free agent.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Diomedes on January 28, 2006, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 28, 2006, 12:27:38 PM
No way Runyan's back, unless he gets very little interest as a free agent.

Which is pretty fargin' unlikely.

None of you idiots have mentioned Calvin farging Armstrong.  I think he'll be the starting RT.  He's big and white, so they can just put Runyan's old jerseys on him, and no one would know the difference.



Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: MadMarchHare on January 28, 2006, 12:46:52 PM
Perhaps.....but could he be the star and only member of the "don't do this" OL video for the NFL? Hmm, hmm?!
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Diomedes on January 28, 2006, 12:56:36 PM
You're saying "but is Calvin mean enough?"  The answer is yes.  I once saw him tear off the head of a gingerbread man and eat it!!
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: MadMarchHare on January 28, 2006, 12:59:55 PM
But was it stale?
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Larry on January 28, 2006, 04:26:58 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on January 28, 2006, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on January 28, 2006, 12:27:38 PM
No way Runyan's back, unless he gets very little interest as a free agent.

Which is pretty fargin' unlikely.

None of you idiots have mentioned Calvin farging Armstrong.  I think he'll be the starting RT.  He's big and white, so they can just put Runyan's old jerseys on him, and no one would know the difference.

Especially if you glued some hair on his shoulders and neck.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: pinoyboy2pt0 on January 28, 2006, 05:13:54 PM
Only reason I said Winston was mostly bc of his ACL and we could get him at some value.  Plus, he's not sucking as much as Trueblood.  If we can turn the Todd into a starting LT, why not Winston?  I'm just thinking his stock went down because of his knee, and Reid can't resist another OL for 'competition'.  I think Runyan has a 35% chance on staying.  Only way I see him staying is if the FO places a little more importance on leadership/veterans...maybe the loss of Troy/Ike...yada yada yada finally caught up with them, or the addition of crackhead TO.  I don't know, I'm just looking for a way to keep Runyan. 

Watch us pick up Jean-Giles.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: BigEd76 on January 30, 2006, 10:03:28 AM
Eckel was on WIP this morning saying that it'll be "either or" with Tra and Runyan.  He believes Runyan will be back and Thomas won't last the whole season if he's still around.

Side note:  did anyone catch Marcus McNeill's catch off a deflection in the Senior Bowl?  Great stuff watching defenders try to tackle a 6'9" 340 RT....  :-D
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: MadMarchHare on January 30, 2006, 10:15:51 AM
Didn't Runyan have one of those this year (can't remember if it was a catch or fumble...)
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 30, 2006, 10:25:02 AM
Quote from: MadMarchHare on January 30, 2006, 10:15:51 AM
Didn't Runyan have one of those this year (can't remember if it was a catch or fumble...)

I think it was a fumble.  Pretty amusing stuff.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Feva on January 30, 2006, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: MadMarchHare on January 30, 2006, 10:15:51 AM
Didn't Runyan have one of those this year (can't remember if it was a catch or fumble...)
Yeah, he scooped up a McMahon fumble (surprise, surprise), and leveled a defender at the end of his run.  Funny as hell.  :-D
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PhillyPhanInDC on January 30, 2006, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: EagleFeva on January 30, 2006, 11:20:57 AM
Quote from: MadMarchHare on January 30, 2006, 10:15:51 AM
Didn't Runyan have one of those this year (can't remember if it was a catch or fumble...)
Yeah, he scooped up a McMahon fumble (surprise, surprise), and leveled a defender at the end of his run.  Funny as hell.  :-D

[Madden] A big ole' lineman just loves a shot to run with the ball....[/Madden]
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: BigEd76 on January 30, 2006, 12:14:49 PM
(http://www.draftshowcase.com/MarcusMcNeill2.jpg)
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Diomedes on January 30, 2006, 12:37:41 PM
That's a great pic.  Looks like he's going to eat that little LSU player.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PhillyPhanInDC on January 30, 2006, 05:05:29 PM
What you don't see is the shtein and piss running down number eight's pant leg. That's gonna hurt.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Eaglez on January 30, 2006, 10:17:16 PM
Is everyone sold on Jamaal Jackson at C? I'm not completely.

I'd rather have a quick, agile center who can get to the 2nd level for speedier guys like Westbrook and Moats. Someone who can pull and get out to the edge. I'm tired of these 300 pound pieces of lard floating around and clogging up space.

I like the kid from OSU. I can't remember his name but I think he would be a nice fit for this offense. Seems like a smart kid, can make good coverage calls, and is lean enough to move around in tight quarters.

Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Eaglez on January 30, 2006, 10:19:16 PM
Here he is:

Nick Mangold

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/c/nickmangold.html
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Rome on January 30, 2006, 10:27:43 PM
Holy crap, Z.  That site nearly gave me a seizure...

:o


Anyway, here's the dope on Mangold so you guys don't have to visit the site and be temporarily blinded...


QuoteStrengths:
Has good size and the frame to add more weight...Technically sound and plays with good leverage...Solid athlete with good quickness who moves well...Smart and a hard worker...Makes all the calls and is a leader along the offensive line...Competitive and plays with a nasty demeanor...Durable player who has started since 2003...Still has some upside with further physical development.

Weaknesses:
Does not have a wide base...Needs to hit the weight room and get stronger...Will struggle head-to-head against massive nose tackles...Is not very explosive or dominant...Doesn't always hold his blocks as long as he needs to...Does not get a great push in the run game...May not be a great fit in just any scheme.

Notes:
Probable starter in the middle...Might fit best in a zone blocking scheme...Has all the tools you look for and his experience and intangibles push him over the top.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on January 30, 2006, 11:27:44 PM
Mangold is good, but he'll go way before I'd prefer to see them spend a 2nd or 3rd round pick on a C who is smaller than Hank Fraley.

Plus Fraley is still under contract as is Jackson. It'll be one of those two guys starting.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: pinoyboy2pt0 on January 31, 2006, 02:13:13 AM
I love Jamaal Jackson.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Feva on January 31, 2006, 04:41:31 PM
QuoteWeaknesses:
Does not have a wide base...Needs to hit the weight room and get stronger...Will struggle head-to-head against massive nose tackles...Is not very explosive or dominant...Doesn't always hold his blocks as long as he needs to...Does not get a great push in the run game...May not be a great fit in just any scheme.

Is this the scouting report for Mangold or Fraley?
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: proveagle on February 01, 2006, 01:56:09 AM
I would be less concerned about the Eagles fielding a young Oline if they would actually run the ball alot more.  Run blocking is more instinctive/physical and less technical/scheme knowledge.

I like Reid but my concern with him always comes down to him trying to force his players to play to his scheme and not adjusting his scheme to better suit the teams strengths.  If they go into the season with that young, big, physical lineup I hope Reid is smart enough to pound the ball and not try to make them play pass protection 70% of the time and constantly picking up blitzes.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Eaglez on February 01, 2006, 08:31:53 PM
I just always found it funny that, on average, we usually have the largest offensive line (both in height and weight) year in and year out, but 70% of the time they are dropping back in pass protection.

I think Reid 'wussified' them somewhat. When your line has that much mass and you don't trust them to pick up a 3rd and 1 or 2, then I think there are some problems.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: pinoyboy2pt0 on February 01, 2006, 08:42:50 PM
Always kinda baffled me too.  He gets road graders who excel in the run game and then it's like, forget that, you're going to be walking backwards 70% of the time for the next 6 months.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: Feva on February 02, 2006, 07:07:11 AM
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on February 01, 2006, 08:42:50 PM
Always kinda baffled me too.  He gets road graders who excel in the run game and then it's like, forget that, you're going to be walking backwards 70% of the time for the next 6 months.

Did someone say Shawn Andrews?
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: pinoyboy2pt0 on February 02, 2006, 07:33:16 PM
or basically the whole o-line...but Andrews is a perfect example.  That's why I was joking we'll draft Jean-Gilles.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: MURP on February 03, 2006, 08:54:43 AM
Quote from: pinoyboy2pt0 on February 02, 2006, 07:33:16 PM
or basically the whole o-line...but Andrews is a perfect example.  That's why I was joking we'll draft Jean-Gilles.

Id be happy if they took Jean-Giles.  (after the first round)
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: PhillyPhreak54 on February 03, 2006, 09:24:40 AM
Hyphenated last names might be worse than a guy with two first names.

We'll have to check with GF for a ruling on that.
Title: Re: Next years starting Oline
Post by: General_Failure on February 03, 2006, 01:59:28 PM
He's got a frogname. Unless he's the team pastry chef or the kicker, I don't want him.