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Eagles => Eagles Talk => Topic started by: MURP on January 27, 2006, 10:25:30 AM

Title: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: MURP on January 27, 2006, 10:25:30 AM
saw this on drafthistory.com for whatever its worth.  There is also a chart on that site, i'll copy/paste even though it gets all out of whack on an MB.

QuoteTuesday, January 24, 2006
Passes Defensed Statistics May Help Identify Premier Defensive Backs

It is nary impossibly to identify the best pass defenders by their statistics. Some of the great defenders are ballhawks and have gaudy interception totals. But it is also frequently the case that defensive backs with a high number of interceptions are either players who often gamble and either come up big or lose big or are player who are picked upon. And some shutdown corners don't have high interception totals because offenses try to avoid throwing into their areas like the plague or because they are good at swatting balls away but have hands of stone. The statistics just don't tell the full story.

Nevertheless, the numbers do provide some insights as well as fodder for interesting conversations. New statistics being tracked are also adding to the usefullness of the data, although the numbers still a far from being good indicators of a player's true worth. NFL.com includes figures on Passes Defensed in its player statistics. The relatively new statistic may provide information that will cause teams and fans alike to reevaluate the worth of many pass defenders. Lets take a quick look at the data from 2005.

The league leaders at intercepting passes in 2005 were: the aging Ty Law who snared 10 errant throws and provided one of the few bright spots in the New York Jets solemn season; Deltha O'Neal who led the take-a-way hungry Cincinnati Bengals by making 10 thefts, the Vikings Darren Sharper who had nine picks; and the Bears' Nathan Vasher and the Broncos' Champ Bailey who each intercepted eight passes. Chris Gamble of the Vikings stole seven passes. For those with an eye to the draft, note how many of those players were playing with a team other than the one that drafted them. Defensive backs are paid big money, sometimes so much that teams feel they can get by with less expensive talent.

The league leaders in passes defensed were: the Steelers' Ike Taylor who was credited with defending 23 passes; the Eagles' Sheldon Brown who thwarted 21 throws and Brian Dawkins who stopped 19; the Chargers' Quentin Jammer who denied 17 passes; and a group of players who defended 15 pass including the Broncos' Champ Bailey, the Buccaneers Ronde Barber, the 49ers Shawntae Spencer and the Cardinals' David Macklin.

Only one defender appeared near the top of both lists: Champ Bailey of Denver, who is considered by many to be the top shut down cornerback in the game. But the league leader in passes defended, Pittsburgh's Ike Taylor, and the fourth best player in that same category, San Diego's Quentin Jammer, only had one interception each. And the league leaders in interceptions, New York's Ty Law and Cincinnati's Deltha O'Neal only defended eight passes apiece.

If the best pass defenders happened to be the players with the highest combined totals of interceptions and passes defensed: Sheldon Brown (Philadelphia), Ike Taylor (Pittsburgh), Champ Bailey (Denver), Brian Dawkins (Philadelphia) and Ronde Barber (Tampa Bay) would get the nod.

One unknown player who made a good showing in the passes defensed column was the Cleveland Browns' Leigh Bodden who defended 14 passes. Bodden entered his third season just hoping to stick with the team. Injuries to others provided him significant playing time. He more than held his own. Bodden started on opening day, but did not play in three of the next four games and did not get another start until game seven. He was a starter for the rest of the season. He is credited with defending at least three passes in a game on three separate occasions against a group of very worthy receivers including the Texans' Andre Johnson, the Bengals Chad Johnson and the Raiders' Randy Moss and company. In those games the Browns beat the Raiders, lost to a significantly superior Bengals team on a field goal as time expired and incurred a three point loss to the Texans. Bodden had only three interceptions but he remains a bright spot on the Browns' roster and it will be interesting to see if the number of passes he defensed in 2005 is any indication of how good of a player he truly is.

I am not advocating that the passes defensed statistics is a good indicator of a solid defensive back, just as I am not convinced that players with the most interceptions are necessarily the best defenders. Frankly, I wonder sometimes who it is that determines which player, if any, deserves to be credited with a pass defended. Nonetheless, it is an additional tool in our kit for evaluating players. So let's take a look at this new statistic over the next few years to see if it bears the test of time.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: MURP on January 27, 2006, 10:26:11 AM
League Leaders in Total Interceptions Plus Passes Defended in 2005
Name   Team   Tot   Pass.
Def.   Int   Yds   Avg   TD   Draft   Team   Rnd   Pos   College
Sheldon Brown   Eagles   25   21   4   67   16.8   1   2002   Eagles   2   DB   South Carolina
Ike Taylor   Steelers   24   23   1   0   0.0   0               DB   Louisiana-Lafayette
Champ Bailey   Broncos   23   15   8   139   17.4   2   1999   taterskins   1   DB   Georgia
Brian Dawkins   Eagles   22   19   3   24   8.0   0   1996   Eagles   2   DB   Clemson
Ronde Barber   Buccaneers   20   15   5   105   21.0   0   1997   Buccaneers   3   DB   Virginia
Shawntae Spencer   49ers   19   15   4   85   21.2   1   2004   49ers   2   DB   Pittsburgh
Ty Law   Jets   18   8   10   195   19.5   1   1995   Patriots   1   DB   Michigan
Deltha O'Neal   Bengals   18   8   10   103   10.3   0   2000   Broncos   1   DB   California
Quentin Jammer   Chargers   18   17   1   14   14.0   0   2002   Chargers   1   DB   Texas
David Macklin   Cardinals   17   15   2   79   39.5   1   2000   Colts   3   DB   Penn State
Brian Kelly   Buccaneers   17   13   4   19   4.8   0   1998   Buccaneers   2   DB   USC
Terence Newman   Cowboys   17   14   3   16   5.3   0   2003   Cowboys   1   DB   Kansas State
Leigh Bodden   Browns   17   14   3   6   2.0   0               DB   Duquesne
Darren Sharper   Vikings   16   7   9   276   30.7   2   1997   Packers   2   DB   William & Mary
Charles Tillman   Bears   16   11   5   172   34.4   1   2003   Bears   2   DB   Louisiana-Lafayette
Nathan Vasher   Bears   16   8   8   145   18.1   1   2004   Bears   4   DB   Texas
Rashean Mathis   Jaguars   16   11   5   79   15.8   1   2003   Jaguars   2   DB   Bethune-Cookman
Domonique Foxworth   Broncos   16   14   2   23   11.5   0   2005   Broncos   3   DB   Maryland
Asante Samuel   Patriots   16   13   3   15   5.0   0   2003   Patriots   4   DB   Central Florida
Terrence McGee   Bills   15   11   4   97   24.2   1   2003   Bills   4   DB   Northwestern State
Dre' Bly   Lions   15   9   6   54   9.0   0   1999   Rams   2   DB   North Carolina
Deshea Townsend   Steelers   15   13   2   26   13.0   0   1998   Steelers   4   DB   Alabama
Roderick Hood   Eagles   15   12   3   17   5.7   0               DB   Auburn
Anthony Henry   Cowboys   14   11   3   102   34.0   1   2001   Browns   4   DB   South Florida
Will Witherspoon   Panthers   14   12   2   35   17.5   1   2002   Panthers   3   LB   Georgia
Marcus Trufant   Seahawks   14   13   1   7   7.0   0   2003   Seahawks   1   DB   Washington State
Travis Daniels   Dolphins   14   13   1   4   4.0   0   2005   Dolphins   4   DB   Louisiana State
Ken Lucas   Panthers   13   7   6   70   11.7   0   2001   Seahawks   2   DB   Mississippi
Patrick Surtain   Chiefs   13   9   4   57   14.2   0   1998   Dolphins   2   DB   Southern Mississippi
Nick Harper   Colts   13   10   3   41   13.7   0               DB   Fort Valley State
Al Harris   Packers   13   10   3   30   10.0   1   1997   Buccaneers   6   DB   Texas A&M-Kingsville
Sammy Knight   Chiefs   13   11   2   12   6.0   0               DB   USC
Aaron Glenn   Cowboys   13   9   4   10   2.5   0   1994   Jets   1   DB   Texas A&M
Tory James   Bengals   13   8   5   5   1.0   0   1996   Broncos   2   DB   Louisiana State
Nate Clements   Bills   13   11   2   0   0.0   0   2001   Bills   1   DB   Ohio State
Chris McAlister   Ravens   13   12   1   0   0.0   0   1999   Ravens   1   DB   Arizona
Chris Gamble   Panthers   12   5   7   157   22.4   1   2004   Panthers   1   DB   Ohio State
Brent Alexander   Giants   12   8   4   45   11.2   0               DB   Tennessee State
Sean Taylor   taterskins   12   10   2   34   17.0   0   2004   taterskins   1   DB   Miami (FL)
David Barrett   Jets   12   7   5   28   5.6   0   2000   Cardinals   4   DB   Arkansas
Curtis Deloatch   Giants   12   11   1   20   20.0   0               DB   North Carolina A&T
Ellis Hobbs   Patriots   12   9   3   8   2.7   0   2005   Patriots   3   DB   Iowa State
Lance Briggs   Bears   11   9   2   30   15.0   1   2003   Bears   3   LB   Arizona
R.W. McQuarters   Lions   11   9   2   25   12.5   0   1998   49ers   1   DB   Oklahoma State
Andre' Goodman   Lions   11   8   3   17   5.7   0   2002   Lions   6   DB   South Carolina
Donnie Edwards   Chargers   11   9   2   15   7.5   0   1996   Chiefs   4   LB   UCLA
Sam Madison   Dolphins   11   9   2   11   5.5   0   1997   Dolphins   2   DB   Louisville
Samari Rolle   Ravens   11   10   1   11   11.0   0   1998   Oilers   2   DB   Florida State
Drayton Florence   Chargers   11   10   1   9   9.0   0   2003   Chargers   2   DB   Tuskegee
Fred Thomas   Orleans Saints   11   9   2   4   2.0   0   1996   Seahawks   2   DB   Mississippi
Derrick Brooks   Buccaneers   11   10   1   0   0.0   0   1995   Buccaneers   1   LB   Florida State
DeJuan Groce   Rams   11   9   2   0   0.0   0   2003   Rams   4   DB   Nebraska
DeAngelo Hall   Falcons   10   4   6   177   29.5   0   2004   Falcons   1   DB   Virginia Tech
Darrent Williams   Broncos   10   8   2   108   54.0   1   2005   Broncos   2   DB   Oklahoma State
Marlon McCree   Panthers   10   7   3   73   24.3   0   2001   Jaguars   7   DB   Kentucky
Andre Dyson   Seahawks   10   9   1   72   72.0   1   2001   Titans   2   DB   Utah
Roy Williams   Cowboys   10   7   3   52   17.3   1   2002   Cowboys   1   DB   Oklahoma
Keith Brooking   Falcons   10   6   4   50   12.5   0   1998   Falcons   1   LB   Georgia Tech
Antonio Pierce   Giants   10   8   2   41   20.5   0               LB   Arizona
Ahmad Carroll   Packers   10   8   2   38   19.0   0   2004   Packers   1   DB   Arkansas
Deon Grant   Jaguars   10   7   3   29   9.7   0   2000   Panthers   2   DB   Tennessee
Jason David   Colts   10   8   2   13   6.5   0   2004   Colts   4   DB   Washington State
Dunta Robinson   Texans   10   9   1   1   1.0   0   2004   Texans   1   DB   South Carolina
Walt Harris   taterskins   10   9   1   0   0.0   0   1996   Bears   1   DB   Mississippi State
Kawika Mitchell   Chiefs   10   9   1   0   0.0   0   2003   Chiefs   2   LB   South Florida
Michael Boulware   Seahawks   9   5   4   107   26.8   0   2004   Seahawks   2   LB   Florida State
Reynaldo Hill   Titans   9   6   3   88   29.3   1   2005   Titans   7   DB   Florida
Lito Sheppard   Eagles   9   6   3   72   24.0   0   2002   Eagles   1   DB   Florida
Odell Thurman   Bengals   9   4   5   59   11.8   1   2005   Bengals   2   LB   Georgia
Brian Williams   Vikings   9   5   4   59   14.8   0   2002   Vikings   4   DB   North Carolina State
Eric Warfield   Chiefs   9   8   1   57   57.0   1   1998   Chiefs   7   DB   Nebraska
Lemar Marshall   taterskins   9   5   4   55   13.8   1               LB   Michigan State
Lofa Tatupu   Seahawks   9   6   3   55   18.3   1   2005   Seahawks   2   LB   USC
Mike Minter   Panthers   9   8   1   47   47.0   0   1997   Panthers   2   DB   Nebraska
Mike Adams   49ers   9   5   4   36   9.0   1   1987   Saints   3   DB   Arkansas State
Adrian Wilson   Cardinals   9   8   1   36   36.0   0   2001   Cardinals   3   DB   North Carolina
Stuart Schweigert   Raiders   9   7   2   35   17.5   0   2004   Raiders   3   DB   Purdue
Pisa Tinoisamoa   Rams   9   7   2   35   17.5   0   2003   Rams   2   LB   Hawaii
Ed Reed   Ravens   9   8   1   23   23.0   0   2002   Ravens   1   DB   Miami FL
Keith Bulluck   Titans   9   7   2   16   8.0   0   2000   Titans   1   LB   Syracuse
Daylon McCutcheon   Browns   9   7   2   14   7.0   0   1999   Browns   3   DB   USC
Andre Woolfolk   Titans   9   8   1   3   3.0   0   2003   Titans   1   DB   Oklahoma
Shawn Springs   taterskins   9   8   1   2   2.0   0   1997   Seahawks   1   DB   Ohio State
Jeremiah Trotter   Eagles   9   8   1   2   2.0   0   1998   Eagles   3   LB   Stephen F. Austin
Fred Smoot   Vikings   9   7   2   0   0.0   0   2001   taterskins   2   DB   Mississippi State
Mike Furrey   Rams   8   4   4   143   35.8   1               DB   Northern Iowa
Greg Wesley   Chiefs   8   2   6   106   17.7   0               DB   Arkansas-Pine Bluff
Troy Vincent   Bills   8   4   4   78   19.5   0   1992   Dolphins   1   DB   Wisconsin
Nick Ferguson   Broncos   8   3   5   59   11.8   0               DB   Georgia Tech
Jordan Babineaux   Seahawks   8   5   3   56   18.7   0               DB   Southern Arkansas
Chris Harris   Bears   8   5   3   44   14.7   0   2005   Bears   6   DB   Louisiana-Monroe
Troy Polamalu   Steelers   8   6   2   42   21.0   0   2003   Steelers   1   DB   USC
Terry Cousin   Jaguars   8   4   4   18   4.5   0               DB   South Carolina
Mark Roman   Packers   8   6   2   18   9.0   0   2000   Bengals   2   DB   Louisiana State
Michael Lewis   Eagles   8   6   2   13   6.5   0   2002   Eagles   2   DB   Colorado
Kelly Herndon   Seahawks   8   6   2   12   6.0   0               DB   Toledo
Antoine Winfield   Vikings   8   4   4   5   1.2   0   1999   Bills   1   DB   Ohio State
Kenny Wright   Jaguars   8   6   2   4   2.0   0   1999   Vikings   4   DB   Northwest Louisiana
John Lynch   Broncos   8   6   2   2   1.0   0   1993   Buccaneers   3   DB   Stanford
Nick Collins   Packers   8   7   1   0   0.0   0   2005   Packers   2   DB   Bethune-Cookman
Bruce Thornton   49ers   8   6   2   0   0.0   0   2004   Cowboys   4   DB   Georgia
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: rjs246 on January 27, 2006, 10:37:31 AM
Burn Lito.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: BigEd76 on January 27, 2006, 10:42:40 AM
Trotter is a better DB than Lewis?  :sly
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: rjs246 on January 27, 2006, 10:46:41 AM
Quote
Sheldon Brown   Eagles   25 
Brian Dawkins   Eagles   22   
Roderick Hood   Eagles   15   
Lito Sheppard   Eagles   9   
Jeremiah Trotter   Eagles   9
Michael Lewis   Eagles   8   

Just so your eyes don't start bleeding trying to find the Eagles on the list.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: Rome on January 27, 2006, 10:48:28 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on January 27, 2006, 10:37:31 AM
Burn Lito.

Redundant.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: ice grillin you on January 27, 2006, 11:00:45 AM
burn kearse replace kalu
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 27, 2006, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: ice grillin you on January 27, 2006, 11:00:45 AM
burn kearse replace kalu

Kearse has one more year before his contract (and career with the Eagles) blows up.

I honestly hope they have Cole and someone else starting at end and allow Kearse to line up as a "joker" or blitzing linebacker occasionally.  Although, he's oddly been playing the run OK but not getting penetration.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: Feva on January 27, 2006, 01:02:46 PM
QuoteIf the best pass defenders happened to be the players with the highest combined totals of interceptions and passes defensed: Sheldon Brown (Philadelphia), Ike Taylor (Pittsburgh), Champ Bailey (Denver), Brian Dawkins (Philadelphia) and Ronde Barber (Tampa Bay) would get the nod.

But... but... I thought Dawk lost a few steps!  ???
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: phattymatty on January 27, 2006, 02:13:22 PM
Quote from: MURP on January 27, 2006, 10:25:30 AM
and the Cardinals' David Macklin.

i've smoked blunts with dude in college.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: hbionic on January 27, 2006, 02:27:20 PM
Quote from: rjs246 on January 27, 2006, 10:46:41 AM
Quote
Sheldon Brown   Eagles   25 
Brian Dawkins   Eagles   22   
Roderick Hood   Eagles   15   
Lito Sheppard   Eagles   9   
Jeremiah Trotter   Eagles   9
Michael Lewis   Eagles   8   

Just so your eyes don't start bleeding trying to find the Eagles on the list.

Thank you. Now...is there a stat that shows how many times they were thrown to. Lito farging tito. This article makes me have confidence in brown again....at least.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: QB Eagles on January 27, 2006, 06:33:31 PM
The Eagles have a very good secondary. The two reasons they seemed kinda sucky last year are lack of a respectable rush and post-Pro Bowl complacency on the parts of Lito and Lewis. Maybe enhanced by a greater emphasis on forcing turnovers at the expense of simply defending the passes and making tackles.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: PhillyGirl on January 27, 2006, 06:39:43 PM
Sheldon Brown being stiffed for the Pro-Bowl again this year is a farging sham of the gayest proportions.

Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: Wingspan on January 27, 2006, 08:22:31 PM
this doesnt take into account how many pass plays came in their direction.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: PoopyfaceMcGee on January 28, 2006, 08:00:41 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on January 27, 2006, 06:39:43 PM
Sheldon Brown being stiffed for the Pro-Bowl again this year is a farging sham of the gayest proportions.

He had a couple of high-profile screwups, like going for the pump fake and letting Burress school him in the first game against the Giants.  We all know he had to bite, because he had to assume the pass rush was going to get there, but it looks bad for the "casual" voter.  Plus, it's hard to get a lot of fan votes for the first time when your whole team is assumed to be down the crapper.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: hunt on January 29, 2006, 08:53:33 AM
no made up stat is going to make me feel any better about how the secondary played this season.
that being said, they are the least of the eagles' problems on D.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: hbionic on January 29, 2006, 12:09:50 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on January 27, 2006, 06:39:43 PM
Sheldon Brown being stiffed for the Pro-Bowl again this year is a farging sham of the gayest proportions.



That just may be one of your best posts ever! And not just because it says gay either.
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: henchmanUK on February 07, 2006, 08:29:35 AM
Quote from: hbionic on January 29, 2006, 12:09:50 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on January 27, 2006, 06:39:43 PM
Sheldon Brown being stiffed for the Pro-Bowl again this year is a farging sham of the gayest proportions.



That just may be one of your best posts ever! And not just because it says gay either.

:-D
Title: Re: Different take on DB rankings
Post by: mussa on February 07, 2006, 10:05:42 AM
nice post murp.  :yay