QuoteOil Company Executives Defend Profits
By H. JOSEF HEBERT
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON - The chiefs of five major oil companies defended the industry's huge profits Wednesday at a Senate hearing where lawmakers said they should explain prices and assure people they're not being gouged.
There is a "growing suspicion that oil companies are taking unfair advantage," Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., said as the hearing opened in a packed Senate committee room.
"The oil companies owe the country an explanation," he said.
Lee Raymond, chairman of Exxon Mobil Corp., said he recognizes that high gasoline prices "have put a strain on Americans' household budgets" but he defended his companies huge profits, saying petroleum earnings "go up and down" from year to year.
ExxonMobil, the worlds' largest privately owned oil company, earned nearly $10 billion in the third quarter. Raymond was joined at the witness table by the chief executives of Chevron, ConocoPhillips, BPAmerica and Shell Oil USA.
Together the companies earned more than $25 billion in profits in the July-September quarter as the price of crude oil hit $70 a barrel and gasoline surged to record levels after the disruptions of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.
Raymond said the profits are in line with other industries when profits are compared to the industry's enormous revenues.
Are profits bad?
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:16:40 AM
Are profits bad?
These profits are. Next question, please.
Ah Dio, we agree about Fraley but disagree here. I can't see how any profits are bad. Why be in business if not to make money. A key term is "Maximize your profits". The boards of directors of these companies are beholden to the stockholders to maximize their ROI. Why is this wrong or immoral? If you were a stockholder, you would be happy when dividends are announced. I seriously can't see how the government has any business questioning these issues.
they make 10 BILLION in one quarter and we're paying, at times, $3 a gallon. you question why this is wrong?
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 09, 2005, 11:26:29 AM
they make 10 BILLION in one quarter and we're paying, at times, $3 a gallon. you question why this is wrong?
I can't believe they showed that kind of a profit after this quarter. :puke
i know, me too. I'm all for companies making money. but when their profit is so obnoxious in a time when fuel costs are farging up the economy, something has to be done.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 09, 2005, 11:30:10 AM
i know, me too. I'm all for companies making money. but when their profit is so obnoxious in a time when fuel costs are farging up the economy, something has to be done.
but no, they weren't price gouging. :boom :boom :boom While some of us were paying almost 4.00 a gallon (and in other areas, SIX dollars a gallon for regular grade), the oil companies are laughing all the way to the bank.
"farg those hurricane victims, we made us some money!"
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:25:24 AM
Ah Dio, we agree about Fraley but disagree here. I can't see how any profits are bad. Why be in business if not to make money. A key term is "Maximize your profits". The boards of directors of these companies are beholden to the stockholders to maximize their ROI. Why is this wrong or immoral? If you were a stockholder, you would be happy when dividends are announced. I seriously can't see how the government has any business questioning these issues.
You're arguing two different points. From a strictly business perspective, any and all profits are good. You are correct -- that is the fidiciary duty of teh BOD. However, from an ethical standpoint, I can't agree that raising prices to a level that impact almost every other industry, and impacting almost all peoples budget, to the point that certain segments of society must choose between buying gas and buying medications is a good thing.
The strategy of the oil business is to raise prices as high as they can, then lower them to "affordable" rates that are still double what they were 18 months ago.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 09, 2005, 11:30:10 AM
i know, me too. I'm all for companies making money. but when their profit is so obnoxious in a time when fuel costs are farging up the economy, something has to be done.
Who should make these decisions? That is ridiculous! I don't consider 10B obnoxious. I consider it the benefit of good business.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: Sun_Mo on November 09, 2005, 11:30:10 AM
i know, me too. I'm all for companies making money. but when their profit is so obnoxious in a time when fuel costs are farging up the economy, something has to be done.
Who should make these decisions? That is ridiculous! I don't consider 10B obnoxious. I consider it the benefit of good business.
ok, good for you.
I just have total disdain for the legislation of morallity. Whether it's pornography, free speech or corporate profits.
I can't defend the oil companies. Farg 'em.
Quote from: FFatPatt on November 09, 2005, 11:44:08 AM
I can't defend the oil companies. Farg 'em.
Not defend. Just leave them alone.
The entire reason the american people have been told for paying so much at the pump is that the price of crude oil has gone up with the war/weather/etc. If that were actually the case the oil companies wouldn't be showing this kind of profit. We've been lied to on a massive scale and this sort of number proves it. Arguing to the contrary is idiotic.
simply shocking that this would happen with bush in office
it was a pretty easy solution to contering the gas costs recently.
i bought some stock in the oil companies. and after it was all said an done (i held the stock for about 4 months), i made enough from the stock sale to see no effect in my wallet for the rising gas prices.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:50:53 AM
it was a pretty easy solution to contering the gas costs recently.
i bought some stock in the oil companies. and after it was all said an done (i held the stock for about 4 months), i made enough from the stock sale to see no effect in my wallet for the rising gas prices.
So you are an evil profit mongerer. A price gouger etc.
this is why everyone needs to start biking
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:50:53 AM
it was a pretty easy solution to contering the gas costs recently.
i bought some stock in the oil companies. and after it was all said an done (i held the stock for about 4 months), i made enough from the stock sale to see no effect in my wallet for the rising gas prices.
So you are an evil profit mongerer. A price gouger etc.
they were mongering profits and gauging prices long before i bought the stock, and will long after i sold it.
i was simply doing something to protect myself from it. i figured if they were going to gauge, i was not going to let them gauge me. and they didnt, because they extra money they took from me at the pump, i got right back.
i was looking out for myself, and protecting my interestes and costs. something most others should try once in a while instead of knee jerk whiney reactions.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:58:44 AM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:50:53 AM
it was a pretty easy solution to contering the gas costs recently.
i bought some stock in the oil companies. and after it was all said an done (i held the stock for about 4 months), i made enough from the stock sale to see no effect in my wallet for the rising gas prices.
So you are an evil profit mongerer. A price gouger etc.
they were mongering profits and gauging prices long before i bought the stock, and will long after i sold it.
i was simply doing something to protect myself from it. i figured if they were going to gauge, i was not going to let them gauge me. and they didnt, because they extra money they took from me at the pump, i got right back.
i was looking out for myself, and protecting my interestes and costs. something most others should try once in a while instead of knee jerk whiney reactions.
fargING RIGHT!!
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:58:44 AM
i was looking out for myself, and protecting my interestes and costs. something most others should try once in a while instead of knee jerk whiney reactions.
fargING RIGHT!!
Yeah, because we all have extra cash to risk on purchasing stock. And because we've all had enough education to understand what stock is, how to buy it (with our extra cash,) and how to sell it. And because everything would be great if we all just gave all of this extra money to the corporations, because it's best for us if they control the money than if we do...
Plus, we don't HAVE to buy gas or oil, right? And we don't HAVE to eat, right?
Hey with the money you made, you should have no problem paying for the obscene price of Gas this winter. farg the rest of us who didn't buy stock though, you know...the ones who also work hard every day to earn a paycheck.
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:58:44 AM
i was looking out for myself, and protecting my interestes and costs. something most others should try once in a while instead of knee jerk whiney reactions.
fargING RIGHT!!
Yeah, because we all have extra cash to risk on purchasing stock. And because we've all had enough education to understand what stock is, how to buy it (with our extra cash,) and how to sell it. And because everything would be great if we all just gave all of this extra money to the corporations, because it's best for us if they control the money than if we do...
Plus, we don't HAVE to buy gas or oil, right? And we don't HAVE to eat, right?
I don't understand your point.
If you invest, YOU are controlling your money. It's like the vicious fight the liberal left is putting up against self investment of our own Social Security money. Why have moronic government hacks control your money? Bunch of idiots have been wasting my tax dollars for years. Let me invest 1/3 of my social security money how I see fit and I will see a mush greater return than with the present system.
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:58:44 AM
i was looking out for myself, and protecting my interestes and costs. something most others should try once in a while instead of knee jerk whiney reactions.
fargING RIGHT!!
Yeah, because we all have extra cash to risk on purchasing stock. And because we've all had enough education to understand what stock is, how to buy it (with our extra cash,) and how to sell it. And because everything would be great if we all just gave all of this extra money to the corporations, because it's best for us if they control the money than if we do...
Plus, we don't HAVE to buy gas or oil, right? And we don't HAVE to eat, right?
Dio, when you buy stock, it doesn't go to the corporation of the stock you are investing in, other than an IPO.
This is a whole other topic, but it is in everyone's best interest to save/invest at least 10% of your pay. But, like I said, that's a whole different subject.
Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on November 09, 2005, 12:30:58 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 11:58:44 AM
i was looking out for myself, and protecting my interestes and costs. something most others should try once in a while instead of knee jerk whiney reactions.
fargING RIGHT!!
Yeah, because we all have extra cash to risk on purchasing stock. And because we've all had enough education to understand what stock is, how to buy it (with our extra cash,) and how to sell it. And because everything would be great if we all just gave all of this extra money to the corporations, because it's best for us if they control the money than if we do...
Plus, we don't HAVE to buy gas or oil, right? And we don't HAVE to eat, right?
Dio, when you buy stock, it doesn't go to the corporation of the stock you are investing in, other than an IPO.
This is a whole other topic, but it is in everyone's best interest to save/invest at least 10% of your pay. But, like I said, that's a whole different subject.
It's not that farging difficult. It takes discipline and the right set of priorities.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMI don't understand your point.
Well, no shtein!?!
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMIf you invest, YOU are controlling your money.
Not really. You're giving it to a company to use as they wish. You have no control whatsoever, short of selling the stock to get the money back. But recovery of investment is, of course, less than guaranteed. If, as I think you suggest, the people should buy stock to prevent themselves from being raped by the very companies in whom they are investing, then you propose a very strange system indeed. I suppose it works great for the folks who can afford to buy stock (and take the occasional loss), but not so great for the people who can't afford it.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMIt's like the vicious fight the liberal left is putting up against self investment of our own Social Security money. Why have moronic government hacks control your money? Bunch of idiots have been wasting my tax dollars for years. Let me invest 1/3 of my social security money how I see fit and I will see a mush greater return than with the present system.
You are changing the subject from price gouging oil companies (and your defense of them) to Social Security. The two are not alike at all. Besides, SS is not an investment plan, it's an insurance plan. Big difference.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:40:16 PMIt's not that farging difficult. It takes discipline and the right set of priorities.
It also takes a few other components: knowledge/education, and means. Both of which are in damned short supply to scores of millions of citizens.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 12:17:16 PM
Hey with the money you made, you should have no problem paying for the obscene price of Gas this winter.
i work just as hard every day to earn a paycheck too. just like everyone else here. and no, i wont have a big problem with it financially with a little luck, and a big does of financial planning. something you should think about, and i assume, since you are newly married, have done just that. you see...i did something about it. most wont do it, they would rather martyr themselves in a "woe is me" state to get someone else to do the work for them.
and what obscene gas price? is this from CNN again? remember the dreaded $5 a gallon article that you posted here? were are those prices? fact is it dropped ALOT since that scare tactic article. i am not defending the oil companies at all. but if you have the means to protect yourself from it, you should do what you can to do it.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 12:17:16 PMfarg the rest of us who didn't buy stock though, you know...the ones who also work hard every day to earn a paycheck.
the same people who have eagles season tickets? digital cable with HD? broadband internet, buy a new eagles jersey every year. or drive an SUV where it's totally unnecessaty, go out and drop $50-100 in a bar over and over again, spend $100's on video games, dvds, big screen television ... all the while ignoring simple things like the cost of living ...etc...it's called priorities.
buying stock is not all that difficult. and hell, with a site like sharebuilder.com, you dont even need to buy full shares of anything. people would rather bitch about things than to take the time to maybe do a little bit of research and realize that it is an option for just about everyone with a moderate income. it's called being smart with money. people can chose to spend thier money any way they want.
yes, there is a percentage of the people in this country that legitimately can not afford your normal every day cost of living increases. and they do deserve to be helped, and given assistance, as long as they make a moderate effort to improve upon their situation. and i do help these people where i can, i donate money and time to charity all year long. i don't turn away from those who are less fortunate. .... however i am not one of these people. i was dedicated enough to have gotten a good education that i paid for 75% myself, and have used that to gain employment, everything i have, i have earned. so tell me, why should i not do what i did? i was able to afford it. i am not hurting anyone along the way. but i will not ignore my needs.
again, should i live in a poverish state because others do? should i not take advantage of what i can provide for me and my wife? why bother going to work everyday then? i can just quit, and then qualify for welfare, and then YOU can pay for my way through life, how's that?
so please lay off this woe is me mentality. i, along with everyone single person out there, have a future to think about...and i will not stop looking out for my interests because some people on a message board like to sound like a goddamned martyr. its very very transparent.
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMI don't understand your point.
Well, no shtein!?!
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMIf you invest, YOU are controlling your money.
Not really. You're giving it to a company to use as they wish. You have no control whatsoever, short of selling the stock to get the money back. But recovery of investment is, of course, less than guaranteed. If, as I think you suggest, the people should buy stock to prevent themselves from being raped by the very companies in whom they are investing, then you propose a very strange system indeed. I suppose it works great for the folks who can afford to buy stock (and take the occasional loss), but not so great for the people who can't afford it.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMIt's like the vicious fight the liberal left is putting up against self investment of our own Social Security money. Why have moronic government hacks control your money? Bunch of idiots have been wasting my tax dollars for years. Let me invest 1/3 of my social security money how I see fit and I will see a mush greater return than with the present system.
You are changing the subject from price gouging oil companies (and your defense of them) to Social Security. The two are not alike at all. Besides, SS is not an investment plan, it's an insurance plan. Big difference.
You are not giving the money to the corporation but to the person you are buying it from. You are buying a part ownership in the company.
The SS analogy I am making is valid and yes I am kinda changing the subject but not really. If you follow my logic here, what i am suggesting is that if you had control over your SS investment account, you could have used that money to invest in oil companies and added those profits to your retirement portfolio.
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMIf you invest, YOU are controlling your money.
Not really. You're giving it to a company to use as they wish. You have no control whatsoever, short of selling the stock to get the money back.
that is simply put, not true.
as a shareholder of any company, your voice can be heard. with annual and semi-annual shareholder meetings that you can chose to attend, the shareholders vote on corporate spendings, or at least appoint the board of directors to a company that will oversee the corporate spending to protect the shareholders interest in their investment.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 12:43:03 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:18:47 PMIf you invest, YOU are controlling your money.
Not really. You're giving it to a company to use as they wish. You have no control whatsoever, short of selling the stock to get the money back.
that is simply put, not true.
as a shareholder of any company, your voice can be heard. with annual and semi-annual shareholder meetings that you can chose to attend, the shareholders vote on corporate spendings, or at least appoint the board of directors to a company that will oversee the corporate spending to protect the shareholders interest in their investment.
Dio will admit I believe to being a Socialist. I bust his balls consistently about being a "pinko commie bastich" but really we are seeing a misinfonformed mindset akin to the counter-culture revolution of the sixties. "Down with corporate america" etc. Sure corporations are out to make money. So what? It is the American way.
But the misinformation and ignorance of these hippie types paves the way for a malaise in this country concerning their fiduciary responsibility to themselves.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:57:07 PMYou are not giving the money to the corporation but to the person you are buying it from. You are buying a part ownership in the company.
After the IPO, this is true. But so what?? It's not ultimately any different whether you give the money to the company directly, or to a prior shareholder; the value of that security is controlled and used by the corporation. Your money, exchanged for the certificate, is no longer available for you to use. It is controlled by the company. As the company does, so does your money. You control nothing but whether to sell.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 12:57:07 PMThe SS analogy I am making is valid and yes I am kinda changing the subject but not really. If you follow my logic here, what i am suggesting is that if you had control over your SS investment account, you could have used that money to invest in oil companies and added those profits to your retirement portfolio.
Repeat after me: Social security is an insurance policy, not an investment portfolio. It's purpose is not profit. And it's a red herring for this argument.
We're talking about oil companies gouging people while recording unprecendented profits. If the people had a choice not to support the oil companies, I wouldn't argue so strongly against these profits. But they don't. Oil jacks the prices and you pay, even if you ride a bicycle to work. That increase devolves to the lowest level in all cases. The price of coffee goes up. The price of utilities goes up. The price of everything we normal people need goes up. All to protect the profit margins along the way. "Hey...the oil prices went up, man..what else am I supposed to do but raise my price to the consumer?" says the merchant, the lanlord, the public transit system. The people bear the load and they don't have a choice.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 12:58:15 PM
that is simply put, not true.
as a shareholder of any company, your voice can be heard. with annual and semi-annual shareholder meetings that you can chose to attend, the shareholders vote on corporate spendings, or at least appoint the board of directors to a company that will oversee the corporate spending to protect the shareholders interest in their investment.
I grant you that technically, my characterization of the case is incorrect. It is however dead on in practical application. As a shareholder in the company, unless you happen to own the majority of the shares, your vote counts for squat nothing, and your voice is mute. Sure, you can attend shareholder meetings, sit in back, and feel like you did something by paying for the hotel in Vegas, but what have you got for your efforts? Nothing. Your influence is zero. Go ahead and try to get Exxon to invest more heavily in alternate energy sources, or less in de-bunking un-biased scientific evidence that greenhouse gasses are unnatrually cooking the world. See how far you get.
And I remind you again: we're assuming already that people a.) have enough money to risk and b.) have an understanding of the system. Both assumptions are dubious as best.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 01:07:30 PMDio...
It's all about
Dio for you, isn't it? Won't speak to the subject, can only attack me. I should have known better than to get into this with you at all. My bad.
I am not attacking you, but the Socialist mindset. That is behind this whole argument.
Communism rocks.
(http://www.sixmeatbuffet.com/images/stalin.jpg)
Now farging shut up, hippies.
Quote from: Wingspan on November 09, 2005, 12:55:00 PM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 12:17:16 PM
Hey with the money you made, you should have no problem paying for the obscene price of Gas this winter.
i work just as hard every day to earn a paycheck too. just like everyone else here. and no, i wont have a big problem with it financially with a little luck, and a big does of financial planning. something you should think about, and i assume, since you are newly married, have done just that. you see...i did something about it. most wont do it, they would rather martyr themselves in a "woe is me" state to get someone else to do the work for them.
and what obscene gas price? is this from CNN again? remember the dreaded $5 a gallon article that you posted here? were are those prices? fact is it dropped ALOT since that scare tactic article. i am not defending the oil companies at all. but if you have the means to protect yourself from it, you should do what you can to do it.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on November 09, 2005, 12:17:16 PMfarg the rest of us who didn't buy stock though, you know...the ones who also work hard every day to earn a paycheck.
the same people who have eagles season tickets? digital cable with HD? broadband internet, buy a new eagles jersey every year. or drive an SUV where it's totally unnecessaty, go out and drop $50-100 in a bar over and over again, spend $100's on video games, dvds, big screen television ... all the while ignoring simple things like the cost of living ...etc...it's called priorities.
buying stock is not all that difficult. and hell, with a site like sharebuilder.com, you dont even need to buy full shares of anything. people would rather bitch about things than to take the time to maybe do a little bit of research and realize that it is an option for just about everyone with a moderate income. it's called being smart with money. people can chose to spend thier money any way they want.
yes, there is a percentage of the people in this country that legitimately can not afford your normal every day cost of living increases. and they do deserve to be helped, and given assistance, as long as they make a moderate effort to improve upon their situation. and i do help these people where i can, i donate money and time to charity all year long. i don't turn away from those who are less fortunate. .... however i am not one of these people. i was dedicated enough to have gotten a good education that i paid for 75% myself, and have used that to gain employment, everything i have, i have earned. so tell me, why should i not do what i did? i was able to afford it. i am not hurting anyone along the way. but i will not ignore my needs.
again, should i live in a poverish state because others do? should i not take advantage of what i can provide for me and my wife? why bother going to work everyday then? i can just quit, and then qualify for welfare, and then YOU can pay for my way through life, how's that?
so please lay off this woe is me mentality. i, along with everyone single person out there, have a future to think about...and i will not stop looking out for my interests because some people on a message board like to sound like a goddamned martyr. its very very transparent.
Amen brutha'
Wingspan, can I borrow to some money to buy some stock? By stock I mean beer. And hookers.
Quote from: Tomahawk on November 09, 2005, 02:57:36 PM
Wingspan, can I borrow to some money to buy some stock? By stock I mean beer. And hookers.
Is beer and hookers on NASDAQ? What's the symbol? I wanna buy a few shares of that.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:39:09 AM
I just have total disdain for the legislation of morallity. Whether it's pornography, free speech or corporate profits.
Yet you're pro-life ::)
Quote from: MadMarchHare on November 09, 2005, 03:14:21 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 11:39:09 AM
I just have total disdain for the legislation of morallity. Whether it's pornography, free speech or corporate profits.
Yet you're pro-life ::)
More like anti-murder.
So we should only legislate some morality?
Quote from: MadMarchHare on November 09, 2005, 03:21:09 PM
So we should only legislate some morality?
Only non-profitable morality. Duh.
Quote from: MadMarchHare on November 09, 2005, 03:21:09 PM
So we should only legislate some morality?
No, and you see, you are playing directly into my argument.
Follow this.
Basic laws are needed. No murder. No stealing. etc. Abortion is murder. Plain and simple. There is no right to privacy spelled out in the constitution. Roe V Wade was an extreme error by the supreme court. The judicial de-legislation of murder was a mistake.
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 03:27:45 PMNo stealing.
Now that we're back on topic...how about those thieving oil companies?
Wouldn't it just have been easier to kill all the pro-lifers?
Silly rabbit...
:-D
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 03:34:04 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 03:27:45 PMNo stealing.
Now that we're back on topic...how about those thieving oil companies?
What are they stealing? They have tghe right to set their prices. We have the right to buy it or not.
I work for in the oil fields here in Texas.....let me tell you its the only good thing about texas.....yes the work sucks having to be out there in all and every weather.....but come payday its all worth it
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 03:47:00 PMWhat are they stealing? They have tghe right to set their prices. We have the right to buy it or not.
You have to eat. Food prices are increasing on account of oil prices. It takes oil to make the food and transport it.
You have to travel to work. Transportation costs are increasing on account of oil prices, whether you drive or take mass transit.
You have to heat your home. Utilities costs are increasing because of the price of oil, not just heating oil.
So yeah. If you don't work, don't eat, and don't take shelter then you don't have to buy their product, or patronize others who do.
Quote from: Bristow on November 09, 2005, 03:48:40 PM
I work for in the oil fields here in Texas.....let me tell you its the only good thing about texas.....yes the work sucks having to be out there in all and every weather.....but come payday its all worth it
See, you don't count. Only the welfarfe state matters. The oil industry employs one hell of alot of people in this country. Refinery jobs pay well also. If these businesses weren't profitable, you would be out of work. But socialists would think that was okay because they could control your way of life by way of entitlements.
Profit margins for oil companies are well below the average for US industry. Maybe Congress should drag all the other captains of industry before a panel to explain why they need to make more on the dollar than oil companies.
Better yet, if politicians want to dramatically reduce the cost of gasoline, they could do so easily by eliminating the taxes on it. The "windfall" on oil that is taken in by the government dwarfs the profits taken in by the oil companies, and instead of going to pork highway projects built by friends of congressmen, the oil companies split profits among millions of investors and use the rest to discover more oil and increase the efficiency of getting it to us.
So who should make money on oil and energy? Private companies or the government? Those are your two choices.
As Dio pointed out , people NEED oil/gas and food. Does that mean the goverment should own it all and there should be no private ownership? I do not think that is the way to go, simply because those profits in private hands will be reinvested into research and production. Those same profits in government hands will be diverted to whatever the current administration wants to do with it (be it social programs, wars, whatever). History has proven that the US government cannot be trusted with money and we shouldn't let them socialize oil.
Quote from: Butchers Bill on November 09, 2005, 08:55:25 PMSo who should make money on oil and energy? Private companies or the government? Those are your two choices. As Dio pointed out , people NEED oil/gas and food. Does that mean the goverment should own it all and there should be no private ownership?
So that's it? It's one or the other? Only two possible options?
Quote from: Butchers Bill on November 09, 2005, 08:55:25 PMI do not think that is the way to go, simply because those profits in private hands will be reinvested into research and production. Those same profits in government hands will be diverted to whatever the current administration wants to do with it (be it social programs, wars, whatever).
You have some kind of crystal ball, to see what the government would do, in the incredibly unlikely event that the U.S. Oil industry were to be socialized?
Quote from: Butchers Bill on November 09, 2005, 08:55:25 PMHistory has proven that the US government cannot be trusted with money and we shouldn't let them socialize oil.
History has proven nothing of the kind. History doesn't prove anything. It only supports. Many could argue the opposit nicely. It would also be easy to show greivous faults in the Corporate world's record with our money.
QuoteBut socialists would think that was okay because they could control your way of life by way of entitlements.
Yeah, thats working well over in France these days.
how many different outlets do the oil company's have? meaning, by an estimate, how many gas stations, refineries, home heating oil companies? what does that profit number come to when you think of "per outlet"
does it really go against normal industry numbers?
oh...and i guess in a comparison, Comcast 1st Q 2004 profits were $65M...1st Q 2005? $313M
Quote from: Diomedes on November 09, 2005, 03:52:04 PM
Quote from: stillupfront on November 09, 2005, 03:47:00 PMWhat are they stealing? They have tghe right to set their prices. We have the right to buy it or not.
You have to eat. Food prices are increasing on account of oil prices. It takes oil to make the food and transport it.
You have to travel to work. Transportation costs are increasing on account of oil prices, whether you drive or take mass transit.
You have to heat your home. Utilities costs are increasing because of the price of oil, not just heating oil.
So yeah. If you don't work, don't eat, and don't take shelter then you don't have to buy their product, or patronize others who do.
Live in the woods, build a fire, eat what you can kill.
This is cliched and long overdue, but here you go...
(http://moltingchicken.tripod.com/funny/Retard.jpg)
sweet tripod logo
Quote from: Wingspan on November 10, 2005, 10:27:40 AM
sweet tripod logo
Well, I can see it and that's all that matters. Suckers.