where would you rate andy reid amongst the head coaches in the nfl
a. first (the best)
b. second
c. third
d. not in the top 5
:-o
Hm...
I think that something has to be said for AR putting a team together that has been able to consistantly produce for six consecutive years. He took an under-talented team and made them into winners, and has kept a very talented team at a high level for several years. He's been to 4 conference title games and a super bowl. From 30,000 feet those are the accomplishments of a premier HC.
The problems arise when you put a microscope on his in-game coaching, which can be farging terrible. He regularly mismanages the clock. He hates running the ball. He doesn't make adjustments like other premier coaches (if at all) and he frequently gets outcoached on the little things that can make a difference. This should not be surprising since this is the first head coaching job he's ever had, but that doesn't excuse him from making these mistakes that, frankly, I wouldn't make if I were coaching a pop warner team.
So I guess my assessment is that he isn't a very good in-game coach, but in every other way he is one of, if not THE best in the league.
Bellichek is 1st, obviously. Then I think I would go Gibbs (we are talking about overall body of work). Then I would go Parcells. Then I would go Shanahan. Then I would go Holmgren. And I think I would put Cowher slightly ahead of Reid.
So, I would have him 7th.
Just heard that.
Obviuosly with all the crap that's gone on the past two games it was easy to say not even the top 5. More I thought about it, who is better? Dungy? Gruden? Gibbs? Coughlin? Parcell's - until Sundays meltdown. Mora - please!
This is a tough one.
forgot about Gruden, he's ahead of AR, not sure where though....
::)
since you wont choose yourself...do you dare to predict which choice will win...theres an interesting dichotomy amongst the eagles fans towards reid...and with this poll you have a show whos host is a reid lapdog but you have andy getting quite a bit of criticism lately with the play calling/clock managment issues...im interested to see how the voting goes...altho the choices themselves are slanted in reids favor...but thats to be expected since the god eskin came up with the question
Obviuosly with all the crap that's gone on the past two games it was easy to say not even the top 5
yes...this is exactly what makes the question particularly intriguing
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 25, 2005, 04:02:43 PM
Bellichek is 1st, obviously. Then I think I would go Gibbs (we are talking about overall body of work). Then I would go Parcells. Then I would go Shanahan. Then I would go Holmgren. And I think I would put Cowher slightly ahead of Reid.
So, I would have him 7th.
I thought about Shanahan. The guy doesn't get a whole lot of credit. It seems that other than the later Elway years and Rod Smith(could throw in Mike Anderson), he seems to have an entirely new team every two years. Total change in personnel. Somehow he makes the playoffs almost every year.
i think it's easy to say he's not in the top 5 because there are more than 5 coaches better than him.
I don't think there are more than five coaches in the league who could have taken the team that Andy Reid inherited and made them into winners in such short order. So based on that alone he is top five. Easily.
Top 5.
belichek
parcells
gibbs
vermeil
gruden
shanahan
cowher
holmgren
are all definitely better
id put andy in the mix with tony dungy jeff fisher john fox and tom coughlin
hes borderline top 10
Quote from: rjs246 on October 25, 2005, 04:10:14 PM
I don't think there are more than five coaches in the league who could have taken the team that Andy Reid inherited and made them into winners in such short order. So based on that alone he is top five. Easily.
that's a very specific criteria...
it's head coaches. so you have to take personel decisions out of the mix. so head coaching is teaching, player management, and all the in-game stuff that leads to winning games. i don't think he's top five.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2005, 04:24:49 PM
belichek
parcells
gibbs
vermeil
gruden
shanahan
cowher
holmgren
are all definitely better
id put andy in the mix with tony dungy jeff fisher john fox and tom coughlin
hes borderline top 10
i don't agree with vermeil, but otherwise, your on
I don't agree with Vermeil or Holmgren.
I don't agree with Gruden or Shanahanananana.
I strongly disagree with Gruden, Cowher, Vermeil and Shanahan
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 25, 2005, 04:28:19 PM
I strongly disagree with Gruden, Cowher, Vermeil and Shanahan
I gave it to him on Cowher because of his longevity of success.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 25, 2005, 04:28:19 PM
I strongly disagree with Gruden, Cowher, Vermeil and Shanahan
Gruden and Cowher are borderline, i put them above Reid for different reasons, but I can see why people would disagree.
but Shanahan? why do you disagree? he's won 2 Super Bowls and is perennially in the playoffs, in a tough division. one tougher than the Eagles have had to deal with in the past 4 years.
the thing i laugh at when people put down shanahan or holmgren is that well they only won superbowls with favre and elway...well andy has had donovan and has trouble even getting to superbowls much less winning them...and as sun said andy has had the advantage of much weaker competition
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2005, 04:24:49 PM
belichek
parcells
gibbs
vermeil
gruden
shanahan
cowher
holmgren
are all definitely better
id put andy in the mix with tony dungy jeff fisher john fox and tom coughlin
hes borderline top 10
please...
how many of those coaches have been in the playoffs the last 5 years?
how many of those coaches have not had a losing record for at least 1 season in the last 5 years?
which one of those coaches have won at least 11 games in each of the last 5 seasons?
how many of those coaches have been in the superbowl in the last 5 seasons?
i didnt say those coaches teams were better than than andys...i said they were better head coaches than andy is...if any of thsoe guys had the eagles team the last five years the eagles probably win a superbowl and most definitely make more than one
who cares if someone thinks Reid is #2 or #11 or #20. Doesnt make a difference in anything. Reid built the Eagles into what they are today. Reid coached em, hired the other coaches, called the games etc. You cant know what any other coach would have done with this team.
Quote from: Sun_Mo on October 25, 2005, 04:30:57 PM
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 25, 2005, 04:28:19 PM
I strongly disagree with Gruden, Cowher, Vermeil and Shanahan
Gruden and Cowher are borderline, i put them above Reid for different reasons, but I can see why people would disagree.
but Shanahan? why do you disagree? he's won 2 Super Bowls and is perennially in the playoffs, in a tough division. one tougher than the Eagles have had to deal with in the past 4 years.
I think Jon Gruden is a flat out fraud. He won with Dungy's players. Look what happened when he got his way. He forced out Rich McKay and his boy Bruce Allen is there. Yeah they're doing good this year but Gruden has already driven Cadillac into the ground. The defense? Yeah, they're all mostly still Dungy's guys.
Bill Cowher is approaching, or has reached in some Stillers fans eyes, a side-show type status. He's nothing more than a figure head who has a big jaw and spits on players. He's got longevity on his side, but when you work for the Rooney's you don't get fired for a long time.
And I'm one who, like IGY said he doesn't understand, who says Mike Shanahan is nothing without John Elway. Yes he won 2 SB's. But what has he done without #7? He has violated salary cap rules, he has had poor drafts, he has a ton of questionable free agent signings and the AFC West hasn't exactly been a powerhouse. The Raiders suck and have sucked for awhile now. The Chiefs had a good offense over the years but that defense has been a sieve. And when Shanny does make it to the playoffs he's out in round 1 because of coaching or team structure.
Yes Reid has McNabb. But McNabb now is in no way comparable to Elway at the end of his career. McNabb now is Elway when Elway was young...still lookin for that trophy.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2005, 04:35:05 PM
i didnt say those coaches teams were better than than andys...i said they were better head coaches than andy is...if any of thsoe guys had the eagles team the last five years the eagles probably win a superbowl and most definitely make more than one
Interesting...but I disagree. Not to mention it's real tough to argue either side of that.
The only coach I'd rather have right now over Big Red is Belichick.
shanahan still won TWO superbowls...and a lot of people say it was because of terrell davis not elway...mcnabb now is better than elway when he won
but he still won two while again reid has trouble even making one
You're right...TD had a lot to do with that.
But my point is that sometimes teams win despite who the HC is. I think that's how Denver was.
If JoJo the juggling clown was running the Broncs back then I think they would've won it with that defense, TD and Elway.
But my point is that sometimes teams win despite who the HC is. I think that's how Denver was.
i agree with this and put the eagles in that category...except the eagles win divisions with reid where as the broncos won two superbowls in spite of shanahan
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 25, 2005, 04:55:47 PM
You're right...TD had a lot to do with that.
But my point is that sometimes teams win despite who the HC is. I think that's how Denver was.
If JoJo the juggling clown was running the Broncs back then I think they would've won it with that defense, TD and Elway.
i think you undervalue Shanahan too much. you're right that his personel decisions have been terrible, but that's not part of a head coach, that's when he was GM/Head coach.
Shanahan's a great offensive coach, he's very good a designing an offfense and he's a very good play caller.
Quote from: ice grillin you on October 25, 2005, 04:49:17 PM
shanahan still won TWO superbowls...and a lot of people say it was because of terrell davis not elway...mcnabb now is better than elway when he won
but he still won two while again reid has trouble even making one
What you
don't say is that Shanahan won tose Super Bowls while violating the salary cap.
He gave Elway deferred payments, along with a few others and didn't decalre it as part of their salary for those years.
Since Elway's left and the NFL penalized them for violating the rules, they've done nothing in the playoffs. They start out every year 5-1 and then slide to 10-6 and out of the playoffs in the first round.
Reid's teams have never lost in the first round of the playoffs. What I find amazing about Reid's success in Philly is that, unlike some of the other coaches mentioned, he was NEVER a coordinator or a head coach in any previous stop he's been. This was his first head coaching job.
Gruden, Shanahan, Vermeil, Belicheck all had two cracks at the whip.
Cowher has had the same limited success as Reid--he went to one Super Bowl and lost--despite having HFA in what, 5 AFCCG's? They're 1-4 at home in AFCCGs, while Reid is 1-2, 1-3 overall.
Parcells was a coordinator before he became the Giants head coach, then went to the Pats, Jets, and Cowboys. Incidnetally, how would you feel if Reid takes the Eagles too the Super Bowl and on the eve of the game, is talking to another organization about their head coaching job?