Steve (Whada_F) brought this up while we were still high-fiving and hugging everyone after the HUGE play.
But he made a great point.
This is parallel to Westbrook making that season saving play.
McNabb and the offense were struggling in 2003
McNabb and the offense are struggling now
A huge STs play turned it around and gave the team confidence and they ripped off a string of victories.
Totally amazing and totally unbelievable. I have zero voice and a pounding headache but it was well worth it.
Quintin Mikell & Matt Ware = 2005 Season Savers
I thought the same thing.
Only diff this year is that our franchise qb looks to be hurt.
Quote from: shorebird on October 23, 2005, 08:13:35 PM
Only diff this year is that our franchise qb looks to be hurt.
He's being KILLED with the playcalling. Even HE is calling to run the ball more.
Somebody sign Ware to a huge contract, quick!
Remember, his thumb on his throwing hand was all farged up in 2003. :paranoid
Yeah, forgot that.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 23, 2005, 08:14:36 PM
Quote from: shorebird on October 23, 2005, 08:13:35 PM
Only diff this year is that our franchise qb looks to be hurt.
He's being KILLED with the playcalling. Even HE is calling to run the ball more.
I agree, I was commenting that Dmac should be calling his own plays if Ried keeps it up.
I still think we need a RB to run the ball efficiently though. Bwest is not the guy to get the ball twenty times a game in a WCO. He's the guy to catch the ball in the flat and out of the backfield. Why don't they run the inside game with Gordon? At least try it. Every time they tried running inside with Bwest, it doesn't,work!!
I thought the same thing as well but there's a few differences. The rest of the NFC is better now than it was then, and in 2003 we could and did actually run the ball. It may not be as easy to spark this team this time, but we definitely have the talent to win.
You all gotta admit one thing though. If it weren't for that amazing play, everyone here would be shredding this team to pieces aside from the defense.
Special teams, outside of Moats and one Diggler punt, were pretty good. Diggler had some nice drops inside the ten.
Yea it was pretty good, but nothing to go crazy about. It only looked good because it's been playing like shtein all year. Today was how it normally is under Harbaugh. If it hadn't been for the rough start this wouldn't look like anything spectacular.
The big difference is that in 2003, McNabb's thumb got better after the first 5-6 weeks. This hernia is not going to get any better whatsoever, only possibly his learned internal adjustments to play with it.
He is good enough to lead us to wins as he is now, if the defense and special teams can play at a high level. But if this team doesn't start running the ball often and effectively, he won't make it to the playoffs. He'll be killed.
How much do you guys think the injury is affecting him? Significantly? A little bit? Beyond significantly?
It's hard to tell at this point because he moved around today pretty damn well. Not as well as the 100% McNabb but better than the Chiefs, Raiders and Cowboys games. He also completed 35/54 with a handful of those being on spikes to stop the clock.
Quote from: TO is GOD on October 23, 2005, 09:21:26 PM
How much do you guys think the injury is affecting him? Significantly? A little bit? Beyond significantly?
It's hard to tell at this point because he moved around today pretty damn well. Not as well as the 100% McNabb but better than the Chiefs, Raiders and Cowboys games. He also completed 35/54 with a handful of those being on spikes to stop the clock.
Its effecting him early in games when his body is still cold, once he heats up its clear that he's throwing just fine. He's just struggling, I'm not at the games but I often wonder if its the receivers not getting open. The drops and his selection aren't helping his cause. Like I said in another thread, he's at his best when he's hitting 7, 8, 9, different receivers per game.
Video of 'The Play' (http://www.startrekfans.net/video/WareTD.wvx) compliments of VaBeach_Eagle on the EMB :yay
Not as good as live, but I could watch that on a loop until the day I die.
Quote from: TO is GOD on October 23, 2005, 09:21:26 PM
How much do you guys think the injury is affecting him? Significantly? A little bit? Beyond significantly?
It's hard to tell at this point because he moved around today pretty damn well. Not as well as the 100% McNabb but better than the Chiefs, Raiders and Cowboys games. He also completed 35/54 with a handful of those being on spikes to stop the clock.
I disagree. He's not nearly as mobile/elusive, and his throwing motion and deep ball accuracy is hampered plenty.
It is a very signifiacant injury, and he's about 80-85%. 80-85% of Donovan is a still a good QB, don't get me wrong... but other players on offense and the line are going to have to up their play to make up the difference if this team has any hope of actually contending for another Super Bowl.
Today's win was a big step for confidence and for the playoff hunt, no doubt... but this team is not a Super Bowl team in my eyes. Not until they can be more balanced on offense and prove other players can make big plays.
Donovan needs to NOT BE THROWING THE BALL 50 plus TIMES A GAME. Perhaps if he was throwing less, he'd be more effective.
I agree, but he still won't be 100%. It seemed in this game, he got warmed up, then ran out of gas. What Andy needs to do is call just enough passes so that he doesn't get to the "running out of gas" point. The supposed pass-to-set-up-the-run method would be perfect for this, if they ever actually ran.
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 23, 2005, 09:58:13 PM
I agree, but he still won't be 100%. It seemed in this game, he got warmed up, then ran out of gas. What Andy needs to do is call just enough passes so that he doesn't get to the "running out of gas" point. The supposed pass-to-set-up-the-run method would be perfect for this, if they ever actually ran.
I know that he won't be 100%, but throwing the ball more than 50 times a game will NOT help him.
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 23, 2005, 09:28:32 PM
Video of 'The Play' (http://www.startrekfans.net/video/WareTD.wvx) compliments of VaBeach_Eagle on the EMB :yay
Fargin' Enberg and Dierdorff are completely cluless. :boo
Dierdorf, "Michael Quentin gets the block..."
Enberg, "The rookie Matt Ware..." TWICE!
And here I always thought this would be my favorite Michael Quentin highlight:
(http://www.philly.com/images/philly/philly/10291/105911142748.jpg)
:P
Quote from: EagleFeva on October 23, 2005, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 23, 2005, 09:28:32 PM
Video of 'The Play' (http://www.startrekfans.net/video/WareTD.wvx) compliments of VaBeach_Eagle on the EMB :yay
Fargin' Enberg and Dierdorff are completely cluless. :boo
Dierdorf, "Michael Quentin gets the block..."
Enberg, "The rookie Matt Ware..." TWICE!
I don't blame them for not knowing Ware or Mikell. It's not that big of a deal. It annoys me when people still say Bryant Westbrook though considering he's a known player and has been in the league for a little while now.
I actually thought about that a few minutes after the play. The bar I was at had 100s of eagles fans and I haven't jumped around that much after a single play since that Westbrook PR.
Quote from: TO is GOD on October 23, 2005, 11:09:23 PM
Quote from: EagleFeva on October 23, 2005, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 23, 2005, 09:28:32 PM
Video of 'The Play' (http://www.startrekfans.net/video/WareTD.wvx) compliments of VaBeach_Eagle on the EMB :yay
Fargin' Enberg and Dierdorff are completely cluless. :boo
Dierdorf, "Michael Quentin gets the block..."
Enberg, "The rookie Matt Ware..." TWICE!
I don't blame them for not knowing Ware or Mikell. It's not that big of a deal. It annoys me when people still say Bryant Westbrook though considering he's a known player and has been in the league for a little while now.
It's their JOB to know the names of the players. ::) Ever read what guys like Merrill Reese, Harry Kalas, Dan Baker, etc....do before games to learn the players' names? Its called STUDY.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 23, 2005, 10:00:01 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 23, 2005, 09:58:13 PM
I agree, but he still won't be 100%. It seemed in this game, he got warmed up, then ran out of gas. What Andy needs to do is call just enough passes so that he doesn't get to the "running out of gas" point. The supposed pass-to-set-up-the-run method would be perfect for this, if they ever actually ran.
I know that he won't be 100%, but throwing the ball more than 50 times a game will NOT help him.
No one's disagreeing with you. In fact, every single person on this board agrees with you, and many of us have said things to that effect over and over again. Please, let the horse's corpse rot in peace.
Didn't say no one agreed with me but the "what is wrong with McNabb?" and "how much do you think his injury is bothering him?" questions are just as retarded and redundant. Those questions keep being asked, I'll keep answering with the same answer.
Well, like I said, it's pretty clear the injury also causes him to have trouble getting warmed up. A streak of 25 pass attempts in the game with only 1 or 2 incompletions should put a game out of reach, but because they kept feeling compelled to throw and completely abandoned the run...
Yeah, we agree. Now I'm getting my licks in on the horse too.
mcnabb to me seemed to move much much better yesterday but he simply cant/wont run...the injury obviously affects his ability to run...but im sure his fear factor of taking a big hit is also causing him not to run
Quote from: SD_Eagle on October 23, 2005, 10:56:48 PM
And here I always thought this would be my favorite Michael Quentin highlight:
(http://www.philly.com/images/philly/philly/10291/105911142748.jpg)
:P
Who's Michael Quentin?
On another note, it was nice to see refs protecting the QB yesterday. I know Dawkins tried to let up on Brees, but he got helmet-to-helmet, so it was definitely the right call. Same on the roughing against McNabb. They might have been a little flag-wacky, but when it comes to protecting the QB (especially one like McNabb that never seems to draw a roughing call), it was nice to see this change of pace.
Quote from: MadMarchHare on October 24, 2005, 08:41:38 AM
Who's Michael Quentin?
The CBS crew called him Michael Quintin after the block.
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 24, 2005, 08:41:43 AM
On another note, it was nice to see refs protecting the QB yesterday. I know Dawkins tried to let up on Brees, but he got helmet-to-helmet, so it was definitely the right call. Same on the roughing against McNabb. They might have been a little flag-wacky, but when it comes to protecting the QB (especially one like McNabb that never seems to draw a roughing call), it was nice to see this change of pace.
I DID, however, take offense to the terrible block from the back on Lewis earlier in the game that was called and then the facemask on McNabb that went uncalled.
Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on October 23, 2005, 08:11:23 PM
Steve (Whada_F) brought this up while we were still high-fiving and hugging everyone after the HUGE play.
But he made a great point.
This is parallel to Westbrook making that season saving play.
McNabb and the offense were struggling in 2003
McNabb and the offense are struggling now
A huge STs play turned it around and gave the team confidence and they ripped off a string of victories.
Totally amazing and totally unbelievable. I have zero voice and a pounding headache but it was well worth it.
Quintin Mikell & Matt Ware = 2005 Season Savers
i said the same thing in the game thread.
i said the same thing in the game thread
as did everyone in the stadium
definitely similarities with the two but in general the overall feeling was different to me...it was much much more dire in 2003...for one had the eagles lost to the giants they would have been under .500...with dallas at 4-1...and as much as the offense is struggling this year its doesnt come close to how pathetic it was at the start of the 03 season...the overall meltdown factor back then was much higher with a loss than it was yesterday
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 23, 2005, 10:00:01 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 23, 2005, 09:58:13 PM
I agree, but he still won't be 100%. It seemed in this game, he got warmed up, then ran out of gas. What Andy needs to do is call just enough passes so that he doesn't get to the "running out of gas" point. The supposed pass-to-set-up-the-run method would be perfect for this, if they ever actually ran.
I know that he won't be 100%, but throwing the ball more than 50 times a game will NOT help him.
actually, i am going to disagree with that.
Quote1st Half 62 104 731 59.6 7.03 68 6 2 6.0 92.3 4 6 1.5 3 0
2nd Half 61 96 733 63.5 7.64 62 5 1 4.0 99.9 6 3 0.5 5 0
he's taking so long to "warm up" that he almost needs all those pass plays. he his hurting the offense right now, and he does make some stupid decisions.
example...the play before the half. watch the play again, there were 4 recievers in on the play. 3 of them went to the endzone or the sideline. one went in the middle. a 7th year qb, no time outs, 15 seconds left. which do you think he should have thrown it to?
Mikell for prez.
The Westrbook return was much more important than this one. Not least because I was at the Meadowlands for that one. So there.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 24, 2005, 10:29:27 AM
The Westrbook return was much more important than this one. Not least because I was at the Meadowlands for that one. So there.
:-D :-D I seem to remember you bragging about that back then too. ;)
Wouldn't you brag about it if you had been there?
Quote from: Wingspan on October 24, 2005, 10:02:48 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on October 23, 2005, 10:00:01 PM
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 23, 2005, 09:58:13 PM
I agree, but he still won't be 100%. It seemed in this game, he got warmed up, then ran out of gas. What Andy needs to do is call just enough passes so that he doesn't get to the "running out of gas" point. The supposed pass-to-set-up-the-run method would be perfect for this, if they ever actually ran.
I know that he won't be 100%, but throwing the ball more than 50 times a game will NOT help him.
actually, i am going to disagree with that.
Quote1st Half 62 104 731 59.6 7.03 68 6 2 6.0 92.3 4 6 1.5 3 0
2nd Half 61 96 733 63.5 7.64 62 5 1 4.0 99.9 6 3 0.5 5 0
he's taking so long to "warm up" that he almost needs all those pass plays. he his hurting the offense right now, and he does make some stupid decisions.
example...the play before the half. watch the play again, there were 4 recievers in on the play. 3 of them went to the endzone or the sideline. one went in the middle. a 7th year qb, no time outs, 15 seconds left. which do you think he should have thrown it to?
Your numbers mean very little. You don't need to look at the numbers to see that McNabb started out the game poorly AND finished it up quite poorly, with a very good in-between period.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 24, 2005, 10:59:24 AM
Wouldn't you brag about it if you had been there?
hehe, yes. that's why I winked, you dork.
Quote from: Diomedes on October 24, 2005, 10:59:24 AM
Wouldn't you brag about it if you had been there?
64 and I were there too! ;D ;D
I wasn't there but I was really drunk and jumping up and down like a monkey.
i shattered my beer mug on the wall of the bar...and got kicked out about a minute later
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 24, 2005, 11:03:10 AM
Your numbers mean very little. You don't need to look at the numbers to see that McNabb started out the game poorly AND finished it up quite poorly, with a very good in-between period.
you also dont need the number to see that because of this injury, he needs almost 2 or 3 drives to get going.
Quote from: Wingspan on October 24, 2005, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 24, 2005, 11:03:10 AM
Your numbers mean very little. You don't need to look at the numbers to see that McNabb started out the game poorly AND finished it up quite poorly, with a very good in-between period.
you also dont need the number to see that because of this injury, he needs almost 2 or 3 drives to get going.
Wow, that sounds like a recipe for success.
I was so pissed after they gave the chargers the ball on 4th down, i got my check from the bar we were at, i was about ready to leave and im like, wait theres 3:30 left in the game, something could happen. And something did happen, i havn't felt that kind of emotion since last year torwards the eagles. comparing it to the westbrook play is funny, i was watching that game(NY) with murp and PG and i left their place, thinking the game was over. driving back i had the game on the radio and fargin westy returns the kick, i pulled the car over, jumped out and screamed. so i'm learned my lesson, never leave the game either on TV or at the gme itself when its that close. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! I guess the karma gods were with us Sunday. :yay
Quote from: rjs246 on October 24, 2005, 11:54:28 AM
Quote from: Wingspan on October 24, 2005, 11:39:42 AM
Quote from: FFatPatt on October 24, 2005, 11:03:10 AM
Your numbers mean very little. You don't need to look at the numbers to see that McNabb started out the game poorly AND finished it up quite poorly, with a very good in-between period.
you also dont need the number to see that because of this injury, he needs almost 2 or 3 drives to get going.
Wow, that sounds like a recipe for success.
When the first three drives are all three and outs it's not that bad.
The difference between 2003 and 2005?
2003:
Duce Staley 96/463 4.8 5tds
Correll Buckhalter 126/542 4.3 8tds
Brian Westbrook 117/613 5.2 7tds
---------------------------------------------------------
339/1618 4.8 20tds
2005:
Brian Westbrook 65/256 3.9 1td
Lamar Gordon 19/62 3.3 1td
Ryan Moats 0/0 0.0 0td
---------------------------------------------------------
84/318 3.8 2td
This one play will not and cannot have the same impact that the Westbrook return had. That 2003 team had the personel and the mindset to work through McNabb's injury by turning to the running game. No such luck with this year's team.
It's very difficult to consistently run in single-back sets. The MLB is free every play: Westbrook has to make that guy miss (which is a difficult thing to do in the NFL regardless of how shifty you are) before he can think of obtaining any significant yardage.