ConcreteBoard

(http://image.weather.com/images/maps/tropical/map_spectrop02_ltst_6nh_enus_600x405.jpg)

Almost unimaginable destruction awaits New Orleans.  God help them.

Our Priest offered a special prayer for the region yesterday at Mass.

:'(

They're all in my prayers today too.

I can't even imagine the horror of seeing that on the news and knowing its coming straight for you.  :(

Good God.  They just upgraded the sustained winds to 175 MPH a moment ago on the Weather Channel. 

I can't even fathom how bad it's going to be.

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 28, 2005, 10:56:02 AM
Good God.  They just upgraded the sustained winds to 175 MPH a moment ago on the Weather Channel. 

I can't even fathom how bad it's going to be.

Yeah, we're watching that too. :'(

Meh, that city needs a shower anyway.

The same thing happened with Ivan.

Hopefully, the winds will diminish back down to Cat 4 status.  If that happens, the city and region will be spared total devastation.

If not...

I wonder how much the superdome can handle? With winds that strong and all those people inside wow.

They are predicting that the levy system will fail and New Orleans will be sitting under water since it sits 6' below sea level. 
God help those who can't or are too stubborn to leave town.

Wow.  Right now that storm is stronger than Ivan ever was.  Those folks in the target zone better get out of town.

God be with them.

It's clear the Saints owner built this hurricane to further faciliate their moving to a new city. 

Quote from: MURP on August 28, 2005, 01:31:33 PM
It's clear the Saints owner built this hurricane to further faciliate their moving to a new city. 

If that thing hits New Orleans directly, that move will be sooner rather than later.  I don't think that  the Superdome is built to withstand 175+ mph winds.  I'm no engineer, but I'm not sure if many buildings at all in the bullseye will be standing when it's all over.

Hopefully people aren't sticking around to find out.

If it wasn't so damned scary, it'd be cool...

(http://www.nnvl.noaa.gov/members/images/109664.jpg)

What is really striking to me is that Katrina swallows up half the Gulf of Mexico.

Quote from: Geowhizzer on August 28, 2005, 01:57:21 PM

Quote from: MURP on August 28, 2005, 01:31:33 PM
It's clear the Saints owner built this hurricane to further faciliate their moving to a new city. 

If that thing hits New Orleans directly, that move will be sooner rather than later.  I don't think that  the Superdome is built to withstand 175+ mph winds.  I'm no engineer, but I'm not sure if many buildings at all in the bullseye will be standing when it's all over.

Hopefully people aren't sticking around to find out.

They are saying that 100,000 people, at least, don't have the means to make it out of town and will have to "tough it out" at home.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 28, 2005, 02:20:28 PM

Quote from: Geowhizzer on August 28, 2005, 01:57:21 PM

Quote from: MURP on August 28, 2005, 01:31:33 PM
It's clear the Saints owner built this hurricane to further faciliate their moving to a new city. 

If that thing hits New Orleans directly, that move will be sooner rather than later.  I don't think that  the Superdome is built to withstand 175+ mph winds.  I'm no engineer, but I'm not sure if many buildings at all in the bullseye will be standing when it's all over.

Hopefully people aren't sticking around to find out.

They are saying that 100,000 people, at least, don't have the means to make it out of town and will have to "tough it out" at home.

Prayers for them, because they're in for one hell of a ride.
They are saying that 100,000 people, at least, don't have the means to make it out of town and will have to "tough it out" at home.

Now they're saying that they expect anything constructed of wood frame to be utterly destroyed, the entire region's electrical system to be obliterated, and that 30-40 foot storm surge is expected on the northeastern eyewall side of the storm.

Basically, go outside and look for a four-story building.  The flood water will be as high as the peak of the roof.

I called a guy I know who works as a damage analyst for FEMA and he told me that no one is going to venture into the area for a full week after the storm hits because the flood waters won't recede until at least then.  He also said that emergency units from all over the country are going to be called in to search for survivors and to help police the remains of the dead.

Oh, man...   :'(

Has the U.S. ever seen a storm of this magnitude?  I can't recall in my 30 years.  I've never really heard of 175 mph sustained winds before. 

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 28, 2005, 03:36:26 PM
Has the U.S. ever seen a storm of this magnitude?  I can't recall in my 30 years.  I've never really heard of 175 mph sustained winds before. 

Andrew was at about 165mph. That was the worst I can remember in recent history.

Check out this site (http://www.hurricaneville.com/historic.html)

I remember Hurricane Gloria like it was yesterday.

Quote# Cape May Hurricane of 1821--The last major hurricane to make a direct landfall in the Garden State of New Jersey. This storm, which was a Category Four Hurricane, struck Cape May, New Jersey on September 3, 1821, and had hurricane force winds go as far west as Philadelphia while folks in New Jersey experienced wind gusts of up to 200 mph. The storm cut a path of destruction that is similar to that of the Garden State Parkway. More detailed information on this hurricane is at Greg Hoffman's Real Lousy Weather Page. (http://www.lbi.net/rlw/hurrican.asp)

:o :o :o

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 28, 2005, 03:36:26 PM
Has the U.S. ever seen a storm of this magnitude?  I can't recall in my 30 years.  I've never really heard of 175 mph sustained winds before. 

The two Cat-5 hurricanes that the Weather Channel has been mentioning is Camille in 1969 and Andrew in 1992 (some sources list Andrew as just a 4, others as a 5).

Camillle (http://www.geocities.com/hurricanene/hurricanecamille.htm) is the strongest to ever hit the United States (centered at Mississippi) at sustained winds of 190mph.  It's pressure was 905Mbs at impact.

At the time of it's impact, Andrew (http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/1992andrew.html) was classified as a Cat-4 with 145mph sustained winds.  Re-evaluation since then has upped it to a Cat-5 with 165 mph winds. (http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hurdat/andrew.html)  Andrew, much like Katrina, re-emerged and re-energized over the Gulf of Mexico before hitting the upper Gulf course.  Unlike Katrina, Andrew never regained it's original intensity (whereas Katrina is much stronger in the Gulf than it ever was in the Atlantic, where it was just a Cat-1 storm).

If it keeps intensifying as it has been, Katrina is more likely to be like Camille, and much more powerful than Andew, which devastated much of south Florida (Homestead is southwest of Miami).  Naples was just clipped by Andrew, as the eye passed about 50 miles south. 

Isabelle (http://www.computervice.com/gerulaitis/Isabelle.htm) hit North Carolina at 160mph winds.  That one hasn't been mention, probably because it was an Atlantic rather than a Gulf Storm.

Here is a listing of CAT-5 hurricanes. (http://www.e11th-hour.org/resources/timelines/v.hurricanes.us.html)  Andrew is not on this list, as they're going by the original measurements.

QuoteHurricane Katrina--Started out modestly on August 23rd, 2005 in the Bahamas as a tropical wave that emerged from the remnants of a tropical depression that had been in the Caribbean. It gradually grew into the season's eleventh named storm and fourth hurricane prior to making landfall in South Florida as a minimal hurricane with maximum sustained winds of 80 mph, and gusts up to 95 mph. After quickly crossing Southern Florida, Katrina emerged again over water in the Southeastern Gulf of Mexico near the Florida Keys, and strengthened to the 2005 season's third major hurricane before reorganizing into the most powerful storm of the season to date, and third Category Five Hurricane in as many years with winds as high as 160 mph, and a minimum central pressure of 908 mb, or 26.81 inches of Hg. The storm left six people dead in Florida along with $600 million dollars in damage according to initial insurance estimates.

Pressure is now down to 902mb and predicted to drop to 900 at least.  I highlighted the $600 mil because it was just a little Cat 1 and did that much damage.  You've got to believe the damage will be in the billions in Louisiana.  The crappy thing is...there will be alligators swimming around all over the place.  They will end up in places they shouldn't be.  You won't even be able to walk outside without worrying about it.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 28, 2005, 03:41:25 PM
Check out this site (http://www.hurricaneville.com/historic.html)

I remember Hurricane Gloria like it was yesterday.

Quote# Cape May Hurricane of 1821--The last major hurricane to make a direct landfall in the Garden State of New Jersey. This storm, which was a Category Four Hurricane, struck Cape May, New Jersey on September 3, 1821, and had hurricane force winds go as far west as Philadelphia while folks in New Jersey experienced wind gusts of up to 200 mph. The storm cut a path of destruction that is similar to that of the Garden State Parkway. More detailed information on this hurricane is at Greg Hoffman's Real Lousy Weather Page. (http://www.lbi.net/rlw/hurrican.asp)

:o :o :o

I can remember Gloria, too.  I was in 7th Grade, and Gloria was one of those hurricanes that had a huge buildup, but all we got (on the border of the far western suburbs and Amish Country) was some rain and blustery wind.  Some friends and I actually went outside in the afternoon and played frisbee in the winds that were left (probably about 20-25 mph with some stronger gusts).  I had a smaller friend that we kept throwing up in the air to see how far the wind would take him.

Great fun that day.  :evil

QuoteHurricane Charley--When it was all said and done, Hurricane Charley went down as the most devastating hurricane to hit anywhere in Florida since Hurricane Andrew in August, 1992. It also ended up being the second costliest hurricane in U.S. History behind Andrew. Charley fooled forecasters by not only rapidly intensifiying, but also making a turn to the north and east much sooner than anticipated, which spared the city of Tampa, but devastated the Port Charlotte area on August 13, 2004. Winds were as high as 145 mph, and the storm left at least 35 people dead, and $14 billion dollars in damage.

This one is the one that forever changed the way I view hurricanes.  In the 10 years I had lived in Florida, we had seen a lot of hurricanes pass us by, with little or no damage, to the point that I had become nonchalant about them.

With Charley, the national guys (especially The Weather Channel) were saying that it was strengthening very slowly, and would hit somewhere in the Tampa (or further north) area as a Cat-2 storm.  Actually, the night before Charley hit, one of our local guys (who honestly do a better job of predicting the hurricane than TWC guys, IMO) said that he saw much faster strengthening than had been originally reported.  He said it wouldn't surprise him if it turned into a very powerful 3/4 storm, and it became a 4 just before it hit.

The quick, sudden turn eastward shocked everybody, though.  In all the years, and all of the watching of hurricane coverage, this is one of the first times that I've seen meteorologists absolutely nonplussed by something a hurricane did.   They were reporting that the storm was supposed to hit Tampa, Tampa, Tampa, and then they were like "Holy Crap!  It's turning towards us!"

It his dead center on Port Charlotte, about 60 miles north of us.  If there was an area that it totally not prepared for a hurricane in southern Florida, it is this area:  lots of mobile homes and pre-fab houses that just turned into piles of pseudo-wood when the storm raged through.  Even now, over a year later, there are still blue tarps all over Charlotte County, and it will take years and billions of dollars to repair all the damage.

After Charley and Frances, Ivan scared the life out of me, and I had my family evacuate (and finished off my back in the meantime  :().  That one ended up missing us entirely, but I would honestly do it again if a hurricane of that magnitude was bearing down on us.

We had already committed $$$ to our addition last year and couldn't afford to get hurricane shutters, but that is on our agenda this year:  add to the hurricane protection of our home.  If the past two years have taught me anything (other than I am freaking crazy to be living in Florida), it that we can't be too careful.  If I can get the money to do it, I'm going to have my roof reinforced in the next couple of years as well.

LOL.  Here is why New Orleans is going to survive:

I'm watching Fox News Channel and Shepard Smith is interviewing people down on Bourbon Street who're partying in advance of Katrina's landfall.

Anyway, he's being his usual pompous, arrogant self asking why in the world anyone would be down there knowing what's coming.  He walks up to a guy and asks him in a real dismissive voice "why are youuuu here" and the guy replies: "NONE OF YOUR fargIN' BUSINESS!"   :-D

He said it right there on the air, and of course, Smith laughs as the bimbette anchor is apologizing furiously, and he says, "well, the guy's right, it is none of my business" and then they cut away to someone else forecasting doom.

Quote from: phillymic2000 on August 28, 2005, 12:11:01 PM
I wonder how much the superdome can handle? With winds that strong and all those people inside wow.

We'll find out soon if it lives up to it's name as the Superdome.

If I lived anywhere in the South, I'd be heading to New Orleans right now. Seriously, how many times do you get to witness a city sink?

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on August 28, 2005, 05:22:06 PM
If I lived anywhere in the South, I'd be heading to New Orleans right now. Seriously, how many times do you get to witness a city sink?

Nice.

I'd go just for the pillaging, but I'd try to leave before the storm him.

I'd go for the boobies.

Saints evacuate (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2145179)

Basically an enormous tornado is about to consume the whole region.

(http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0828/4907551_320X240.jpg)

That's creepy.

Pressure has risen slightly to 904 millibars.  Winds are remaining steady @ 165 mph but the geeks at the Weather Channel keep insisting that further slight weakening is possible.

Honestly, I don't now how much difference 150 mph is from 165 mph in terms of destruction but it can't be that much different.

Superdome....

(http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0828/4907096_320X240.jpg)

It's their first "sell out". 

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 28, 2005, 07:21:26 PM
Pressure has risen slightly to 904 millibars.  Winds are remaining steady @ 165 mph but the geeks at the Weather Channel keep insisting that further slight weakening is possible.

Honestly, I don't now how much difference 150 mph is from 165 mph in terms of destruction but it can't be that much different.

QuoteNHC forecaster Ed Rappaport said Katrina's strength could fluctuate before it reaches shore but noted the difference between a high Category 4 and a low Category 5 was practically inconsequential.

We're feeling the outermost effects of the storm all the way in Daytona.  Not the outer bands, necessarily, but the moisture that is being drawn up from the south by this monster is laying over us like a wet blanket.  We're getting storms firing off one after another about 20 miles inland.

Just unreal.  We're like 600 miles from New Orleans.

???

I just recruited a guy getting off Active Duty to join the Active Reserves (which is still Active Duty, just working with reservists).  Anywho, I got him orders down to Belle Chase, LA and he just arrived there last week.  He's probably not too happy with me right now but hopefully he's ok. 

hah...isn't the band that sings "Walking on Sunshine" named Katrina and the Waves?

I'm wondering how the cemetaries will hold up being that the graves are all above ground and everything.

Quote from: TexasEagle on August 28, 2005, 08:38:11 PM
I'm wondering how the cemetaries will hold up being that the graves are all above ground and everything.

There's a Carlin joke in there somewhere.

I think people are more concerned about the people still alive than the people already dead. If no one evacuates and this thing gets REALLY bad then the entire town of NO could be a graveyard.

Meh.

It was a stupid place to put a city anyway.

Uh oh:

QuoteRoof of Superdome in New Orleans, where thousands evacuated ahead of Hurricane Katrina, is leaking rain. Details soon.

[/b]

Ten bucks says it was leaking last week and the week before that, too.   Good job by the media ramping up the suspense though...

MSNBC had pictures of some pretty decent holes in the roof.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 09:27:09 AM
Ten bucks says it was leaking last week and the week before that, too.   Good job by the media ramping up the suspense though...

Nope, now updated.

Massive piece of Superdome roof has peeled off. National guard moving people to another part of the stadium. Watching on CNN now.

Awesome!!  What's the body count up to?

I can't wait for dead bodies, aligators and snakes to take over the streets of New Orleans.

Maybe the Casino on the water will float out to international waters and become the propoerty of no one. If it does, I call dibs.

I think "massive piece" is a gross overstatement. Maybe 1% of the top is open as a result from the pictures I saw.

Hotel collapsed in Harvey, LA.

Quote from: rjs246 on August 29, 2005, 09:33:51 AM
I can't wait for dead bodies, aligators and snakes to take over the streets of New Orleans.

Call me crazy but I'm a bigger fan of seeing the streets being filled with drunk skanks showing off their baby feeders. 

yeah, just saw that. And it hasn't even hit the hardest yet.  :(

The hurricane is now as big as the state of Florida.

Quote from: rjs246 on August 29, 2005, 09:33:51 AMMaybe the Casino on the water will float out to international waters and become the propoerty of no one. If it does, I call dibs.

You could be the dread gambler rjs, at the healm of the great ghost casino of the gulf.  You and all the lost souls from a drowned city.  Muuahhhaaahaa!!

Quote from: Sgt PSN on August 29, 2005, 09:35:58 AM
Call me crazy but I'm a bigger fan of seeing the streets being filled with drunk skanks showing off their baby feeders. 

Meh, I've been there and done that. Thrice. I'm now far more interested in a localized apocalypse.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 09:37:31 AM
You could be the dread gambler rjs, at the healm of the great ghost casino of the gulf. You and all the lost souls from a drowned city. Muuahhhaaahaa!!

This catastrophe just got a whole lot more awesome.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 09:37:31 AM

Quote from: rjs246 on August 29, 2005, 09:33:51 AMMaybe the Casino on the water will float out to international waters and become the propoerty of no one. If it does, I call dibs.

You could be the dread gambler rjs, at the healm of the great ghost casino of the gulf. You and all the lost souls from a drowned city. Muuahhhaaahaa!!

Oh, now that sounds like fun.  Can I make a reservation now or do I have to be dead first? 

Quote from: Sgt PSN on August 29, 2005, 09:39:58 AM
Oh, now that sounds like fun.  Can I make a reservation now or do I have to be dead first? 

I'm willing to negotiate.

One of these storms , we're going to see a journalist impaled by sheet metal live on TV.

I was listening to NPR on the way in this morning.  Their "reporter" Greg Allen is on the 27th floor of the Hilton, downtown N'arlens.  All I could think was, you dumb farg, RUN!!!  Jesus, even that Weather Channel loony Jim Cantori fled the coast.

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/29/hurricane.katrina/top.superdome.night.jpg)

This footage brought to you by the Airship Snoopy, flying high above the Superdome.  MetLife, it pays.

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 29, 2005, 09:41:17 AM
One of these storms , we're going to see a journalist impaled by sheet metal live on TV.

The guy on CNN just had to duck into a safe area. These guys are farging crazy. They CAN'T get paid enough. They are at their hotel and its falling apart while they report.

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 29, 2005, 09:41:17 AM
One of these storms , we're going to see a journalist impaled by sheet metal live on TV.

Now that's reality TV. Choke on that Survivor. 

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 29, 2005, 09:41:17 AM
One of these storms , we're going to see a journalist impaled by sheet metal live on TV.

Dude, how am I suppsed to get any work done with all of the awesome notions of destruction being floated here. Free rogue Casino. Bodies from the above-ground cemetaries everywhere. Aligators eating those carcasses and squatting in people's homes. The Superdome being smashed to itty bitty bits. It's too good.

The CNN meteorologist just told the reporter AT the hotel that while he just had 94 mph gusts almost bowl him over, the band that is about to hit them there will be at 120-130 mph. The reporter looked like he shtein himself.

Quote from: rjs246 on August 29, 2005, 09:43:43 AM

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 29, 2005, 09:41:17 AM
One of these storms , we're going to see a journalist impaled by sheet metal live on TV.

Dude, how am I suppsed to get any work done with all of the awesome notions of destruction being floated here. Free rogue Casino. Bodies from the above-ground cemetaries everywhere. Aligators eating those carcasses and squatting in people's homes. The Superdome being smashed to itty bitty bits. It's too good.

Dont' forget about the toxic waste issue in New Orleans.

Link to video (http://dynamic.cnn.com/apps/tp/video/tech/2005/08/29/obrien.katrina.toxic.gumbo.cnn/video.ws.asx?NGUserID=aa54a14-24037-1125246023-2&adDEmas=deReg%3AR00%26deBand%3Ahi%26deDom%3Acomcast.net%26deSic%3D73%26deCoun%3Ausa%26deDMA%3A504%26deZip%3A08021%26deGMT%3A-4)

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 29, 2005, 09:44:33 AM
The CNN meteorologist just told the reporter AT the hotel that while he just had 94 mph gusts almost bowl him over, the band that is about to hit them there will be at 120-130 mph. The reporter looked like he shtein himself.

It would have been better television if he had actually shtein his pants. And then flung it at the camera.

Guy in New Orleans says its like raining shards of glass right now because of all of the windows blowing out.

Reporters only act a little like monkeys.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 29, 2005, 09:50:52 AM
Guy in New Orleans says its like raining shards of glass right now because of all of the windows blowing out.

That is so f'ing awesome. I wish I was independently wealthy, sitting at home in my underwear, getting dome and watching updates on this.

Tornadoes touching down now in different areas there as well.

It's been like 20 minutes since someone posted "the sky is falling in New Orleans."  I'm crestfallen.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 10:16:29 AM
It's been like 20 minutes since someone posted "the sky is falling in New Orleans."  I'm crestfallen.

Ditto. I need updates on the destruction!

- floods, hail, high winds, people hurt, people die, businesses and homes ruined, storm over, emergency declared, humans bond together to clean up mess and help each other, towns and city restored over time, just another blip on the scale of life.


there, summed up the entire next year.  guess saying it that easily would put a lot of people out of jobs though. 

Stupid job is keeping me from my hurricane updates. LOL

I do have a story for you. On one channel, they got a report from police talking about a guy who said he was going to rough it out because he didn't want to leave his home, which is close to downtown New Orleans. He called on his cell phone and said that his house was filling up with water fast and he was going to wait until the last minute to use his ax to get out via his ROOF. HE called the cops and begged them to come get him because he didn't want to die.

Guy has 2 days to evacuate and NOW he calls for help?

Hopefully the aligators will get him.

I'd be alright with some police brutality under these circumstances.  Maybe they could "accidentally" shoot him.

"An alligator with an axe in it's tail was attacking the man when Officer Jones arrived.  Jones attempted to shoot the alligator, but hit the man instead."

This is just another example of how much God hates Southerners.

Riddle me this, jokers:  How the farg is this (http://www.news4jax.com/news/4907043/detail.html) Katrina's fault? 

QuoteDAVIE, Fla. -- A couple died of apparent carbon monoxide poisoning from a generator operating inside their home, police said Saturday.
Daniel R. McMillan, 65, and Veronica A. Scott, 43, were found dead by McMillan's sister. She then called police.
Police said they died on Friday, likely poisoned by gas from the generator was operating in the living room.
Hurricane Katrina was also blamed for seven other deaths when it ripped across South Florida on its way to the Gulf.

Chalk another on up for the Intelligent Design Awards.  God sure did a great job when he fashioned these two fools out of dust.

Which makes me wonder.  When they say "X number of deaths caused by Katrina," how many of those are just people who would have diea anyway?  Old person has a heart attack or stroke and dies at the Superdome--death gets attributed to Katrina.  Two people stay in their home despite having 72 hours notice to get the farg out, and they drown to death in a tidal current.  Katrina is blamed.

Katrina for President!

Quote"So, imagine you're the poor stupid person who decides not to evacuate: Your house will disintegrate around you. The best you'll be able to do is hang on to a light pole, and while you're hanging on, the fire ants from all the mounds -- of which there is two per yard on average -- will clamber up that same pole. And, eventually, the fire ants will win."

I'm still laughing about this. :-D

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 11:00:49 AM
Riddle me this, jokers:  How the farg is this (http://www.news4jax.com/news/4907043/detail.html) Katrina's fault? 

I'm sure there's scientific evidence somewhere that says low-pressure systems make rednecks even more stupid.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 29, 2005, 09:42:19 AM

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 29, 2005, 09:41:17 AM
One of these storms , we're going to see a journalist impaled by sheet metal live on TV.

The guy on CNN just had to duck into a safe area. These guys are farging crazy. They CAN'T get paid enough. They are at their hotel and its falling apart while they report.

more like stupid.

i wanna see a reported get decapitated ala "Day after tomorrow" for doing one of these retardo reports in the middle of a hurricaine.

on a side note, how many people will be silently disappointed if new orleans isnt completely flattened?

Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on August 29, 2005, 11:52:20 AM

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 11:00:49 AM
Riddle me this, jokers:  How the farg is this (http://www.news4jax.com/news/4907043/detail.html) Katrina's fault? 

I'm sure there's scientific evidence somewhere that says low-pressure systems make rednecks even more stupid.

That's unpossible.  That's like finding a way to make bionic more gay.  Can't be done. 

Its not going to be flattened as far as I am hearing, looks like Miss is going to be the hardest hit.

As long as this storm rids us of a few thousand rednecks then I think it'll be safe to say that the storm was a success. 

Wind was never the concern in NO.  The problem might actually be worse if it does go east of the city.  Means the winds are coming from the north INTO NO via Lake Ponchartrain.

Downtown NO:

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/29/hurricane.katrina/top.1115.neworleans.ap.jpg)

That'll mean plenty of fun for the gators then!! :evil

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/29/hurricane.katrina/top.1159.norleans.ap.jpg)

Arnold Jenkins tries to join the mix for the Darwin Awards 2005.

Just saw a report on CNN where a couple visiting NO from Atlanta and upon hearing the evacuation warning they called a cab and took it back to ATL.  Total cab fare:  $900.  The real winner:  The cabbie who got paid and gets to miss the storm. 

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/29/hurricane.katrina/top.1458.redcross.ap.jpg)

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/weather/0508/gallery.katrina.mon.am/02.01.ap.jpg)

Ha ha. Stupid ambulance.

Overall I'm very disappointed in Katrina.  Underwhelming.  You'd think she had Don King pimpin' her, the way she totally failed to kill thousands.

I was watching another CNN report a little while ago and some douche bag reporter was trying to stand in the middle of the street while giving his report.  When he realized he was about to get blown away he crouched down behind a public mailbox.  Then part of the mail box started to blow away and he grabbed a metal rod probably 2 feet long and tossed it in the street where the wind blew it out of site.  I wonder if it impaled anyone? 

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 04:22:24 PM
Overall I'm very disappointed in Katrina. Underwhelming. You'd think she had Don King pimpin' her, the way she totally failed to kill thousands.

Maybe storms take on the personalities of the professional sports teams that inhibit the city(s) they strike.....in which case would perfectly explain Katrina's failure to live up to the hype. 

Quote from: Sgt PSN on August 29, 2005, 04:29:30 PM

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 04:22:24 PM
Overall I'm very disappointed in Katrina. Underwhelming. You'd think she had Don King pimpin' her, the way she totally failed to kill thousands.

Maybe storms take on the personalities of the professional sports teams that inhibit the city(s) they strike.....in which case would perfectly explain Katrina's failure to live up to the hype. 

Sure, easy to joke when your Doublewide is OK, isn't it Sarge?

Yep.  I got that sumbitch anchored to the ground real good this year. 

Quote from: Diomedes on August 29, 2005, 04:22:24 PM
Overall I'm very disappointed in Katrina.  Underwhelming.  You'd think she had Don King pimpin' her, the way she totally failed to kill thousands.

John Bolaris must have forecasted it.

So the country has like 7 days advance notice that something big may happen somewhere along a coast line.

I don't get why we don't fly in a whole bunch of really big industrial fans that can blow winds about 160MPH (don't you act like the military doesn't have them!), and line them up on the coast.  Blow all them sumbitches directly at the storm.  It's traveling at about 40 to 60 MPH, with winds blowing 150MPH.  As long as you position the fans to blow in the opposite direction of the winds, it'll disappear..

Do I have to think of everything around here??   ::)

Quote from: MadMarchHare on August 29, 2005, 12:45:24 PM
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WEATHER/08/29/hurricane.katrina/top.1159.norleans.ap.jpg)

Arnold Jenkins tries to join the mix for the Darwin Awards 2005.

Does anyone else notice this guy looks like Sloth from the Goonies?  I guess the mutation from the chemical waste is already affecting those street dwellers  :paranoid

QuoteAP News Alert
Aug 29 11:03 PM US/Eastern
GULFPORT, Miss.

An emergency official has confirmed 50 hurricane-related deaths in Mississippi's Harrison County.

Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on August 29, 2005, 08:36:03 PM
So the country has like 7 days advance notice that something big may happen somewhere along a coast line.

I don't get why we don't fly in a whole bunch of really big industrial fans that can blow winds about 160MPH (don't you act like the military doesn't have them!), and line them up on the coast. Blow all them sumbitches directly at the storm. It's traveling at about 40 to 60 MPH, with winds blowing 150MPH. As long as you position the fans to blow in the opposite direction of the winds, it'll disappear..

Do I have to think of everything around here?? ::)

Dumbass, those fans will spin the earth in the opposite direction!

From what I hear, east New Orleans and surrounding towns are flooded, with dozens of collapsed buildings and several bodies seen floating in the water.

Levee breach... downtown NOLA is filling up. Tulane University Hospital, with 1000+ patients, is filling up with water and will need to be evacuated by air.

Saw pictures on TWC this morning.  Basically, the water is up to the roofs of the single-story homes, and to the street signs.

Probably that in the end the water damage will far exceed the wind damage.

Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on August 29, 2005, 08:36:03 PMI don't get why we don't fly in a whole bunch of really big industrial fans that can blow winds..

Do you remember last year when people were talking about nuking hurricanes?  Elected officials were actually campaigning for the federal government to "do something about the hurricanes." 

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 08:22:04 AM

Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on August 29, 2005, 08:36:03 PMI don't get why we don't fly in a whole bunch of really big industrial fans that can blow winds..

Do you remember last year when people were talking about nuking hurricanes? Elected officials were actually campaigning for the federal government to "do something about the hurricanes."

Stupid people like that that think they can "beat" mother nature will be the death of this planet. How about people stop moving to areas chronically hit by hurricanes, floods, landslides and tornados. You'd think by now they'd know enough to avoid recurring disaster areas.

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 30, 2005, 06:17:00 AM
Levee breach... downtown NOLA is filling up. Tulane University Hospital, with 1000+ patients, is filling up with water and will need to be evacuated by air.

That's the scary thing. The city filling with water after the fact, when they couldn't even get in before... I have a feeling the death toll's going to be high.

Quote from: TexasEagle on August 30, 2005, 08:28:24 AM
Stupid people like that that think they can "beat" mother nature will be the death of this planet. How about people stop moving to areas chronically hit by hurricanes, floods, landslides and tornados. You'd think by now they'd know enough to avoid recurring disaster areas.

:yay :yay :yay

I love hearing Californians talk about the "big one" and how it will happen one day.

Hey asshat, then pack your shtein and MOVE away from there before you wake up one morning and you're washed up on a beach in Hawaii.

Quote from: TexasEagle on August 30, 2005, 08:28:24 AMHow about people stop moving to areas chronically hit by hurricanes, floods, landslides and tornados. You'd think by now they'd know enough to avoid recurring disaster areas.

re: New Orleans.  I was only half joking with my first post.  It's a fargin' stupid place to put a city.  I can hardly think of worse locations.  Las Vegas and Mexico City pop to mind as similarly stupid.  The fact that people have been living there for (what seems to us humans) a long time is irrelevant.  It's a dumb ass location.  I'm not crying any tears for them, especially not for those who had the means to get out.  The poor folk, I have some sympathy for them.  But whatever.  farg them too at the end of the day.

I love also the inevitable sob stories we get each hurricane about the poor, poor rich folk whose beach front homes are damaged or destroyed.  I'd like to see each one of those crying homos gang raped by a crowd of seven foot tall, sheep skin wearing mongolians.

I had a (going to hell) laugh when they kept interviewing these toothless folk who had refused to leave their homes and now are stuck in 3 feet or so of water...but they're still at home.

It occurs to me that no matter where you live, you're going to be adversely affected by mother nature in some way.

Californians deal with earthquakes, midwesterners deal with tornadoes, southerners deal with hurricanes and flooding and northeasterners deal with massive snow storms.

There is no idyllic place in the world and suggesting that people simply "move away" from disaster-prone areas is ridiculous because no matter where you live, there's always going to be some sort of ecological challenges to deal with.

Just my $.02.

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 30, 2005, 08:58:39 AM
There is no idyllic place in the world and suggesting that people simply "move away" from disaster-prone areas is ridiculous because no matter where you live, there's always going to be some sort of ecological challenges to deal with.

The ecological danger of living in a reclaimed swamp area that is sinking, trapped by water on three sides, and built in the path of frequent hurricanes is not the same as the ecological danger of living in say, suburban Philadelphia. Your post is like saying "crime happens everywhere, so it's ridiculous to consider the crime rate when moving to inner city Detroit instead of Valley Forge."

I can deal with "ecological challenges" as you put it, but when people willingly move to earthquake prone areas because it's "pretty" or hurricane ravaged cities because they're "sunny" I start to question sanity. I wouldn't willingly move to the flood plains around the Mighty Mississippi unlike a lot of folks.

It's one thing to live in a place that's hit by a freak storm or unexpected natural disaster. It's another thing to live in a place that's called "Tornado Alley." They don't come up with that nicknames like that because the like the sound of them.

Hah!  I've been to Valley Forge.

I'm lucky to have gotten out alive!

Quote from: TexasEagle on August 30, 2005, 09:14:31 AM
I can deal with "ecological challenges" as you put it, but when people willingly move to earthquake prone areas because it's "pretty" or hurricane ravaged cities but they're "sunny" I start to question sanity. I wouldn't willingly move to the flood plains around the Mighty Mississippi unlike a lot of folks.

It's one thing to live in a place that's hit by a freak storm or unexpected natural disaster. It's another thing to live in a place that's called "Tornado Alley." They don't come up with that nicknames like that because the like the sound of them.

Don't you live in tornado alley?

:-D

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 30, 2005, 09:16:05 AM
Don't you live in tornado alley?

:-D

Um... no. I live in San Antonio. The worst thing that's happened here was some minor flooding about 3 years ago when a tropical storm settled over the area and just spun in a circle dumping rain for about 4 days straight - usually it's just hot. Actually I don't think any part of Texas is in Tornado Alley. But if a Twister wanted to remove Dallas from the map I'd be glad to extend the alley to that God forsaken city. ;D

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 30, 2005, 09:10:58 AM
Your post is like saying "crime happens everywhere, so it's ridiculous to consider the crime rate when moving to inner city Detroit instead of Valley Forge."

VF Thugs are going to kill you.  K.O.P represent biatch!

So tornado alley is like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, etc., correct?

I always thought Texas was a part of it.

PS: I'd gladly welcome Dallas's utter destruction.  What a shteinhole.  :puke

When I was in KC I lived in the middle of tornado alley.  Now that I've moved to the Carolina coast, I get to deal with hurricanes.  I guess it's a sign that I'm moving up in the world. 

At least with hurricanes, you have days to see them coming and can get the hell out.  Tornadoes and earthquakes don't give you that luxury.

This "our tsunami" comment is pretty foul.  At the end of the story, there's no way Katrina kills more than 500 americans.   To compare that to the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands is stupid, pompous, offensive.  Things are bad, sure.  But there's no need to pretend it's anything like as bad as the recent tsunami. 

And people wonder why the world hates at us.  One reason is that we are the most ignorant, self-important gang of spoiled bully brats you'll ever find.  We lose a few hundred in a hurricane, and start making comparisons to the worst natural disaster in world wide living memory.  That's classy.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 09:41:43 AM
This "our tsunami" comment is pretty foul.  At the end of the story, there's no way Katrina kills more than 500 americans.   To compare that to the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands is stupid, pompous, offensive.  Things are bad, sure.  But there's no need to pretend it's anything like as bad as the recent tsunami. 
  We lose a few hundred in a hurricane, and start making comparisons to the worst natural disaster in world wide living memory.  That's classy.

Agreed. I JUST read that and JUST thought the exact same thing. Did you see who said it? One of the mayors down there.  ::)

Mayor of Biloxi.  Doing his town, state, and country proud.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 09:43:48 AM
Mayor of Biloxi.  Doing his town, state, and country proud.

And CNN proudly posting it as their headline.

That was a pretty tasteless thing to say. There's a lot of damage but nothing like the tsunami which is on a completely different level of death and destruction.

Wait a second... were any of you affected by this?  Did you lose everything in this disaster?

Personally, I don't give a shtein whether everyone else in the world hates Americans but I'd be interested in seeing how many of those countries who were affected by the tsunami will rush to aid those devastated by Katrina.

I'm betting zero.

CNN posts the headline, then goes on to say that 54 are dead....followed a few paragraphs later to the 226,000 killed by the tsunami.

Disgusting.

This is our Hiroshima. 

Quote from: MURP on August 30, 2005, 09:50:46 AM
This is our Hiroshima.

:-D :-D :-D

Quote from: MURP on August 30, 2005, 09:50:46 AM
This is our Hiroshima.

:-D

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 30, 2005, 09:48:02 AM
Wait a second... were any of you affected by this? Did you lose everything in this disaster?

Personally, I don't give a shtein whether everyone else in the world hates Americans but I'd be interested in seeing how many of those countries who were affected by the tsunami will rush to aid those devastated by Katrina.

I'm betting zero.

No, I haven't been there.  I'll bet my balls--both of 'em--that it Katrina is a spring picnic by comparison to the tsunami. 

The countries that were affected by the tsunami are a.) dirt poor and b.) still recovering, and along way from being done with that process.  Are you really suggesting that the poorest, least capable countries, who just suffered the worst natural catastrophe in living human memory should be offering aid to the richest nation in the world, on account of a storm that kills a couple hundred people? 

I didn't think so.

Whatever.  Comparing disasters and the reactions to them by those affected is pointless.

The guy obviously misspoke at a stressful moment.

Let's round him up and beat the shtein out of him for it.

::)

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 30, 2005, 10:02:20 AMLet's round him up and beat the shtein out of him for it.

I'll join the mob just as soon as I finish my latte.

Latte?

Scum Froth-sucking yuppie vermin!

:-D


Fixed. 

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 30, 2005, 10:09:38 AMScum-sucking yuppie vermin!

It's called froth, man.  And the latte has very little.  You're thinking of a cappucino.

Quote from: MURP on August 30, 2005, 09:50:46 AM
This is our Hiroshima. 

You sure it's not our Nagasaki?

yeah, im pretty damn sure. 

Is The Rapture over yet?

Weak.

This storm was a dissappiontment.  Nature's weak. 

Tornado Alley - technically...it has Wichita Falls, TX in it but not the DFW area.  But anytime you watch the National Geographic Channel and they talk about tornadoes, they include the DFW area in it. 

Seriously though, so people are just supposed to not live in areas where natural disasters hit?  are you prepared to live in a city twice the size of the one you are in now?  You'll have to relocated 39 mil + people from California, everyone in Florida and everyone along the Gulf Coast and everyone in tornado alley.  It's stupid to say that people shouldn't live there.  You are basically discarding half the U.S.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 09:43:48 AM
Mayor of Biloxi.  Doing his town, state, and country proud.

Well what would you expect from Mississippi?!

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 30, 2005, 12:48:51 PM
Tornado Alley - technically...it has Wichita Falls, TX in it but not the DFW area. But anytime you watch the National Geographic Channel and they talk about tornadoes, they include the DFW area in it.

Seriously though, so people are just supposed to not live in areas where natural disasters hit? are you prepared to live in a city twice the size of the one you are in now? You'll have to relocated 39 mil + people from California, everyone in Florida and everyone along the Gulf Coast and everyone in tornado alley. It's stupid to say that people shouldn't live there. You are basically discarding half the U.S.

This will really get that flying car project going again.

I've built two already.  I'll sell you one for $3.  Whaddya say?

speaking of idiots, this short article is filled with em. link (http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/D8CA8RA00.html)

QuoteOne man, who had about 10 pairs of jeans draped over his left arm, was asked if he was salvaging things from his store.

"No," the man shouted, "that's EVERYBODY'S store."

QuoteDenise Bollinger, a tourist from Philadelphia, stood outside and snapped pictures in amazement.

"It's downtown Baghdad," the housewife said. "It's insane. I've wanted to come here for 10 years. I thought this was a sophisticated city. I guess not."

Quote"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.

lol.  im speechless. 

QuoteA looter carries a bucket of beer out of a grocery store in New Orleans

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10908301723.hurricane_katrina_ladm109.jpg?x=218&y=345&sig=G7m12guybCetRDu2piT5NA--)

At least that guy's got his priorities straight.

Looting is in our blood. With the exception of the blackout in NYC a few years ago every major event that COULD lead to looting HAS led to looting. It's human nature to loot.

the man has his priorities straight, got to give him credit.

guess that's what i deserve for waiting so long before hitting the button.

Quote from: MURP on August 30, 2005, 01:49:34 PM

QuoteDenise Bollinger, a tourist from Philadelphia, stood outside and snapped pictures in amazement.

"It's downtown Baghdad," the housewife said. "It's insane. I've wanted to come here for 10 years. I thought this was a sophisticated city. I guess not."

What the hell is she talkin about?  She lives in Philly...what is sophisticated about that place.  Dumb woman.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 30, 2005, 12:48:51 PM
Seriously though, so people are just supposed to not live in areas where natural disasters hit? are you prepared to live in a city twice the size of the one you are in now? You'll have to relocated 39 mil + people from California, everyone in Florida and everyone along the Gulf Coast and everyone in tornado alley. It's stupid to say that people shouldn't live there. You are basically discarding half the U.S.

Hey, Darwin's Law at its finest. (I'm not even going to get into the rapid overpopulation of the planet.)

If you're stupid enough to build a house on the side of a cliff (Hello California!) don't go crying on the news when a mudslide wipes it into the ocean. You want to live in Florida? Don't bitch about a hurricane tearing apart your house. These weather patterns and recurring events happened long before man, in all it's vanity, decided we're better than the planet and, assuming the world isn't blown up before then, will happen long after our species is gone.

Let the stupid live in high danger areas, they'll cut their own stupidity out of the gene pool. Natural section rules!

Quote from: rjs246 on August 30, 2005, 01:54:01 PM
Looting is in our blood. With the exception of the blackout in NYC a few years ago every major event that COULD lead to looting HAS led to looting. It's human nature to loot.

Freebees kick ass. I wonder if anyone loots car lots? :paranoid

Well, i definitely agree with the idiots that build homes on the sides of mountains.  They have no foundation.  They deserve what eventually comes to them all.

Quote from: TexasEagle on August 30, 2005, 02:01:00 PM

Quote from: rjs246 on August 30, 2005, 01:54:01 PM
Looting is in our blood. With the exception of the blackout in NYC a few years ago every major event that COULD lead to looting HAS led to looting. It's human nature to loot.

Freebees kick ass. I wonder if anyone loots car lots? :paranoid

That's a little tough to do when all the cars are under water.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 30, 2005, 01:59:08 PM


What the hell is she talkin about?  She lives in Philly...what is sophisticated about that place.  Dumb woman.

This coming from somebody that lives in Waco Texas.

Quote from: Yeti on August 30, 2005, 02:59:40 PM

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 30, 2005, 01:59:08 PM


What the hell is she talkin about?  She lives in Philly...what is sophisticated about that place.  Dumb woman.

This coming from somebody that lives in Waco Texas.

Dude!

Ex-Branch Dividians rule.

Burn baby...burn!!!!!!   :evil  :evil

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/dawkinsdarthcore/fire.jpg)

To get serious for a moment, things in the Gulf Coast area are getting beyond nasty, especially in New Orleans as the water continues to rise. That story about the guy who lost his wife when his house split open in Mississippi is heart wrenching.

Superdome to be evacuated. (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2147141)

Man, I knew this shtein was going to get bad.

I can't see how the city will ever recover from this.  It's just horrible right now.

:'(

I'm going to see if I can volunteer to help out. Just feel helpless but I don't even know what I could do until they get some kind of a grip on the situation. It's unreal down there.

Quote from: TexasEagle on August 30, 2005, 05:32:02 PM
To get serious for a moment, things in the Gulf Coast area are getting beyond nasty, especially in New Orleans as the water continues to rise. That story about the guy who lost his wife when his house split open in Mississippi is heart wrenching.

I watched that video twice and it honestly made me feel heartache.  Even the reporter was broken up and she's a professional.  I really would like to help out and i wonder if my job would let me.  Think about it...all those people at the Superdome...where will they go?

I just can't think of that entire city getting wiped out and not want to do... something. All those people in the hospitals that have to be evacuated. Just terrible.

Quote from: MURP on August 30, 2005, 01:52:14 PM

QuoteA looter carries a bucket of beer out of a grocery store in New Orleans

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10908301723.hurricane_katrina_ladm109.jpg?x=218&y=345&sig=G7m12guybCetRDu2piT5NA--)

Gotta love that dude's hairstyle. :-D :-D

I feel bad for the people that couldn't get out.  But that iceholes that had the chance to flee (under a MANDATORY EVACUATION) and stayed, I have zero sympathy for.  Listening to these farging geniuses screaming out their attic window for help, I have children here, makes me want to puke.  You risked your kids lives in a storm that 24h before it hit had 175 mph winds, and now you want a handout?!  They fined the scarecrow from Georgia for running away from her wedding to pay for the manhours to find her.  They should do the same thing here.  These rescuers are putting their lives on the line to save the stupidest of people.   :boom

Quote from: MadMarchHare on August 30, 2005, 07:31:00 PMThey fined the scarecrow from Georgia for running away from her wedding to pay for the manhours to find her. They should do the same thing here. These rescuers are putting their lives on the line to save the stupidest of people. :boom

Agreed.

---

Now, on the looting front, what do you y'all think of this?  Two Yahoo news photos follow.  One of some white folk, one of a black kid.  One big difference in the blurb.  Now, maybe I'm reading too much into this.  On the other hand, maybe I'm not.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/photos_ts_afp/050830071810_shxwaoma_photo1)
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.cyn78.300805074130.photo01.photo.default-268x384.jpg)

QuoteTwo residents wade through chest-deep water after finding bread and soda from a local grocery store after Hurricane Katrina came through the area in New Orleans, Louisiana.(AFP/Getty Images/Chris Graythen)

link (http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050830/480/ladm10208301530)
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladm10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladm102.jpg)

QuoteA young man walks through chest deep flood water after looting a grocery store in New Orleans on Tuesday, Aug. 30, 2005. Flood waters continue to rise in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina did extensive damage when it made landfall on Monday. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

Shame on Yahoo, white,black whatever I have more sympathy for the people looking for food. THe jagbags stealing slacks (saw video of it on CNN) and other things should be shot on the spot.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 09:41:43 AM
This "our tsunami" comment is pretty foul.  At the end of the story, there's no way Katrina kills more than 500 americans.   To compare that to the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands is stupid, pompous, offensive.  Things are bad, sure.  But there's no need to pretend it's anything like as bad as the recent tsunami. 

And people wonder why the world hates at us.  One reason is that we are the most ignorant, self-important gang of spoiled bully brats you'll ever find.  We lose a few hundred in a hurricane, and start making comparisons to the worst natural disaster in world wide living memory.  That's classy.

I agree that the tsunami comment was wrong, no doubt. A couple of people have made that comment and all of a sudden you lump us all in, classy! THe USA did a lot for the victims of the tsunami, whenever there is a natural disaster in the world the USA is always there. But we are just bully brats, right? nice job taking a shot at the country when we are down. Classy move.

Yeah, we disagree a bit.  It's okay.

Speaking of the USA...they need to get the National Guard into New Orleans right away.  Not just the Coast Guard.  People are gonna start killing each other if they don't take over asap.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 10:04:09 PM
Yeah, we disagree a bit.  It's okay.

Speaking of the USA...they need to get the National Guard into New Orleans right away.  Not just the Coast Guard.  People are gonna start killing each other if they don't take over asap.

agreed, some of the video tape on Cnn and hearing some of the reporters stories, it is got to be close to getting out of hand. THey reported that one officer was shot in the head by a looter (he is going to be alright) but 20 to 30 thousand people in the Superdome, with rising flood water  :o thats not good.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 10:04:09 PM
Yeah, we disagree a bit.  It's okay.

Speaking of the USA...they need to get the National Guard into New Orleans right away.  Not just the Coast Guard.  People are gonna start killing each other if they don't take over asap.

Haven't you heard...Bush sent them all to Iraq...us gun-toting Americans are the National Guard now!!

Scrounging for food when it's your only option and the food is going to go bad sitting in an abandoned flooded store anyway = not looting.

Swimming back home with pockets full of jewelry = looting.

My guess on the pictures is that AFP is just more cautious about calling people looters than the AP is. If the pictures were from the same news agency, it would be clearcut racism.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 30, 2005, 09:41:43 AM
This "our tsunami" comment is pretty foul.  At the end of the story, there's no way Katrina kills more than 500 americans.   To compare that to the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands is stupid, pompous, offensive.  Things are bad, sure.  But there's no need to pretend it's anything like as bad as the recent tsunami. 

And people wonder why the world hates at us.  One reason is that we are the most ignorant, self-important gang of spoiled bully brats you'll ever find.  We lose a few hundred in a hurricane, and start making comparisons to the worst natural disaster in world wide living memory.  That's classy.

I've been thinking about this.  For you or I to call this "our tsunami" would definitely be crass.  Obviously, the tsunami's destruction, especially in terms of lives was far beyond that for which Katrina will ultimately be held responsible.

But I am not going to condemn the mayor of Biloxi for an emotional response in the heat of the moment.  For the people of Louisiana and Mississippi, the destruction of their homes and the loss of life is very real.  I've heard other sources say that the footage of vast parts of Louisiana and Mississippi look very much like pictures of South Asia in the wake of the tsunami.

Is it destruction on the scale of the tsunami?  Hardly.  However, for these people, it is the same:  their home, their family, their lives are being gravely affected.

Guess which of those two photos from above I found in "Metro," (one of the two large, free NY Dailies today?  Hint: there's only one person in the photo, and the caption doesn't say anything about "finding" food.

Also, another follow up: The Governor of Mississippi Haley Barbour is quoted on the front page of the NY Times today saying "It looks like Hiroshima is what it looks like."  geo, I understand your hesitance to chastise the Mayor of Biloxi for words spoken in an emotional moment.  I'm not as forgiving of elected officials as you are.  In my view, the Mayors and Governors should have more humility, more perpsective, and more professionalism than to compare this scene to the tsunami or Hiroshima.  These comments are irresponsible, innaccurate, and insulting.

Quote from: QB Eagles on August 31, 2005, 07:53:12 AMMy guess on the pictures is that AFP is just more cautious about calling people looters than the AP is. If the pictures were from the same news agency, it would be clearcut racism.

I'm not sure it would be clearcut racism even then, but I'm also not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.  It's curious.  That's all I'm saying.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 31, 2005, 08:57:39 AM
Guess which of those two photos from above I found in "Metro," (one of the two large, free NY Dailies today?  Hint: there's only one person in the photo, and the caption doesn't say anything about "finding" food.

funny you mentioned that.  I was thinking about the same thing while reading the Metro today.

Quote
The Governor of Mississippi Haley Barbour is quoted on the front page of the NY Times today saying "It looks like Hiroshima is what it looks like."

Gov of Miss reads the board!  ;D

What next, will Trent Lott liken Katrina to Hitler, and Southerners to the Jews?

I was reading a story in the Inky today about the looting at a Wal-Mart..

Wal-Mart apparently told the police that in a situation like this they can go take whetever they want and to keep track of it and pay them back later (yeah, that'll happen). And the police were taking canned goods and the stuff like that needed. But they also were taking DVDs and other crap.

But when people saw the police doing it -- the rushed the store and began looting it. They said the traffic getting to the store (in an area where the floods did not hit) was backed up like the people evacuating.

Then they told a story about a teenage girl who passed out while looting. She layed there on the floor while people stepped over her and trampled her. Two "good samaritans" tried to help her by pouring water, soda and gatorade on her face. Are you kidding me?!?

Then a firefighter walked by and they asked him to help and he said "She's breathing. Where am I going to take her?" and walked away.

It is getting crazy down there for sure.

Suicide at the Superdome? (http://www.wdsu.com/news/4916024/detail.html)

Quote from: MURP on August 31, 2005, 09:41:07 AM
Suicide at the Superdome? (http://www.wdsu.com/news/4916024/detail.html)

Yeah, read that too. Awful.

What a clusterfarg.

The photo of the black kid can also be found at CNN.com in the "Gallery" under "Special Report" on Katrina.  Link is on the front page at CNN.com.  The blurb takes the high road:

QuoteA young man drags groceries through chest-deep water in New Orleans on Tuesday.

Quote from: MURP on August 31, 2005, 09:41:07 AM
Suicide at the Superdome? (http://www.wdsu.com/news/4916024/detail.html)

How in the world can the Saints possibly follow this act and provide the same level of action and excitement? 

From one dome to another (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2147692)

watching the news i was like, its farged how they show just black people looting and not whites.  thats farged up! 

[rush]There goes the liberal media again.  They're just trying to hype up the black looters because they want them to succeed. [/rush]

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 31, 2005, 11:16:14 AM
From one dome to another (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2147692)

Never really thought i'd hear anyone actually use the term 'Refugees' and have it involve people in the U.S.  It's just weird.  You always think of third world countries and war when you hear that term...at least for me anyway.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.people/index.html

Quote from: Sgt PSN on August 31, 2005, 10:24:59 AM

Quote from: MURP on August 31, 2005, 09:41:07 AM
Suicide at the Superdome? (http://www.wdsu.com/news/4916024/detail.html)

How in the world can the Saints possibly follow this act and provide the same level of action and excitement? 

They might as well just play out their season in San Antonio.  Thats the most likely place they will end up.  I've also heard that Reliant stadium has offered their services for their first game of the year.

probably playing at LSU stadium

Which would give those college kids another excuse to drink

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on August 31, 2005, 09:34:33 AM
Then a firefighter walked by and they asked him to help and he said "She's breathing. Where am I going to take her?" and walked away.

You take her to the can after a quick stop by the condoms. Duh.

This is a HORRIBLE story (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/31/katrina.bowie.ap/index.html)

I don't know which is worse, that woman or the guy who lost his wife because he couldn't hold on to her any longer and the last thing she said was "take care of the kids and grandkids."

QuoteFederal officials declare public health emergency for entire Gulf Coast. Details soon.

Quote from: Seabiscuit36 on August 31, 2005, 02:19:27 PM

QuoteFederal officials declare public health emergency for entire Gulf Coast. Details soon.

Hm an entire city worth of human waste floating around the Gulf? I don't understand how there could be any sort of health concern.

Throw in more than a few corpses, a whole bunch of fuel, and refuse of all kinds.  Simmer under direct heat for three days and Prego!

Quote from: The Waco Kid on August 31, 2005, 02:15:17 PM
I don't know which is worse, that woman or the guy who lost his wife because he couldn't hold on to her any longer and the last thing she said was "take care of the kids and grandkids."

The guy for sure. That's the worst thing I've seen in a while. Can you imagine holding your wife or husband and them telling you that you can't hold on and to take care of your kids as they're swept away? It's like something from a movie. Just horrible.

And they're trying to get the Saints here to San Antonio since we have the empty Alamo Dome for them to play in. I can't imagine them playing at LSU all season.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 31, 2005, 02:28:32 PM
Throw in more than a few corpses, a whole bunch of fuel, and refuse of all kinds. Simmer under direct heat for three days and Prego!

Yeah, and add in dead animals, aligators and snakes, mosquitos... plus no heat, no power, no food... Oh yeah, and no buildings. Most of NO is going to need to be flattened because of all the water damage to the structures.

I may be headin down to NO eventually here with our department.  We're trying to work something out to get down there and help.

The company I work for has sent over 1 million cans of drinking water to the area. They are also matching any donations given by employees to the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund in addition to making a hefty donation. I'll probably make a donation at some point. I wonder if there will be a New Orleans when this is done.

St. Louis would become the largest Mardi Gras celebration in the country.... Sad but true...

Anyone see this? It's hilarious.

(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3404/lootfind8iw.th.png) (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lootfind8iw.png)

I just read link on another board that the French Quarter is on fire.  With no water pressure, it's gonna burn to the ground.

(no link)

So one of my clients called me this morning to let me know that he and his family were okay. They had a beautiful, HUGE home in NO.

He and his family packed up their minivan and a small trailer hitched to the back over the weekend. Packed up all of their photo albums and important stuff they didn't want to lose. Also as many suitcases with clothes as they could fit and some boxes of food and water just in case...along with an emergency kit. They drove over to Texas and just got a hotel room there so they could wait it out.

They had NO clue what their house was going to be like, and got a huge dose of reality this morning. CNN had aerial views this morning of parts of NO and lo and behold, they saw their neighborhood. Its gone. Every single house, as big as they were, gone. I felt awful for him, but thankful that he was smart enough to pack and leave.

That's been mentioned already, but it never hurts to make sure to try to incite some more racism.

It's not racism. You don't consider bread looting because it's food, but soda isn't something you need.

It's splitting hairs.  Personally, I think the captions were almost certainly written by two different people, and it's a meaningless difference anyway.  Both were finding, both were looting.

It's just one store burning right now and they have some water going (sucked from the street) but only one engine and that might not be enough since smoke's still pouring out of the building.

Hah..I was talking to someone I know who was going to be a Freshman at Tulane this fall. He said school is cancelled indefinitely. Indefinitely?...as in permanently?! Seriously, call a state school and inquire about late entry. I mean, the best case is to transfer back to Tulane...Fall '06.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-31-katrina_x.htm

I just find all of this so unreal:

"Nagin estimated 50,000 to 100,000 people remained in New Orleans, a city of nearly half a million people. He said 14,000 to 15,000 a day could be evacuated."

And sad:

"Police officers were asking residents to give up any guns they had before they boarded buses and trucks because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a motel said they were being shot at overnight.

Anarchy, plain and simple.

National guardsmen should be brought in from all over the country to contain the situation.

Unfortunately, they're busy elsewhere right now.

:boom

Another big probem right now is that some people who HAVE cars and are getting out of there are being carjacked and shot so the gunman can take the car and get out instead.

Todd Pinkston has been unable to reach his family in Mississippi.

Quinten Mikell is from New Orleans as well. I hope his family is okay.

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050901/i/r411173970.jpg?x=380&y=272&sig=b65c8HTIhuwTuJ4a4vWXPA--)

Caption: "Armed Texas game wardens surround a group of individuals who stole a mail truck to escape the flooded areas of New Orleans East August 31, 2005. The people were freed but forced to continue on foot."

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 31, 2005, 08:19:15 PM
Todd Pinkston has been unable to reach his family in Mississippi.

Quinten Mikell is from New Orleans as well. I hope his family is okay.

There's a story on PE.com that says Mikell's family evacuated and they're all ok last he talked to them. Nothing about Pinkston's family though.

Good, glad Mikell's family wasn't dumb like Favre's. Glad they're all okay.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 31, 2005, 09:10:09 PM
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050901/i/r411173970.jpg?x=380&y=272&sig=b65c8HTIhuwTuJ4a4vWXPA--)

Caption: "Armed Texas game wardens surround a group of individuals who stole a mail truck to escape the flooded areas of New Orleans East August 31, 2005. The people were freed but forced to continue on foot."

These guys must be so proud of the work they're doing.

Ryan Moats said today that he's on a mission to help the man with the yellow shirt that held his wife's hand as she drowned...  :(

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 31, 2005, 08:08:08 PM
National guardsmen should be brought in from all over the country to contain the situation.

Unfortunately, they're busy elsewhere right now.

:boom

Over-react much?   ::)

We have hundreds of thousands of troops in the National Guard available to help out, but right now there is no where for them to go.  The city is under water, and there would be nothing for all those troops to do.  They are deploying 10,000 troops to the area now, and if they need more, more will be sent.

Quote from: Butchers Bill on September 01, 2005, 12:16:27 AM

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on August 31, 2005, 08:08:08 PM
National guardsmen should be brought in from all over the country to contain the situation.

Unfortunately, they're busy elsewhere right now.

:boom

Over-react much?   ::)

We have hundreds of thousands of troops in the National Guard available to help out, but right now there is no where for them to go.  The city is under water, and there would be nothing for all those troops to do.  They are deploying 10,000 troops to the area now, and if they need more, more will be sent.

Exactly.  where are they going to go?  Unbelievable stuff.  I feel guilty sitting down to dinner tonight.

Not me.  The ones who couldn't flee were at the Superdome.  The rest of the iceholes should have known better.

Quote from: Diomedes on August 31, 2005, 10:43:31 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 31, 2005, 09:10:09 PM
(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050901/i/r411173970.jpg?x=380&y=272&sig=b65c8HTIhuwTuJ4a4vWXPA--)

Caption: "Armed Texas game wardens surround a group of individuals who stole a mail truck to escape the flooded areas of New Orleans East August 31, 2005. The people were freed but forced to continue on foot."

These guys must be so proud of the work they're doing.

I got a call yesterday since they are working on getting the Guard ready to go down if we asked to assist.  Yes, I would be proud to stop the looters.

Texas Game Warden? 

Proudly stopping people from evacuating.

Quote from: BigEd76 on September 01, 2005, 12:09:15 AM
Ryan Moats said today that he's on a mission to help the man with the yellow shirt that held his wife's hand as she drowned... :(

So Moats lost his wife in the waters?  If that's true, God Bless.  God Bless everyone that is down in that area.

Quote from: mikey418 on September 01, 2005, 09:30:49 AM

Quote from: BigEd76 on September 01, 2005, 12:09:15 AM
Ryan Moats said today that he's on a mission to help the man with the yellow shirt that held his wife's hand as she drowned... :(

So Moats lost his wife in the waters?

huh?

Moats did not lose his wife.  [Is he even married?]   What he wants is to help a guy who lost his wife. 

Wait, so Moats' wife caused the hurricane? Bitch.

This is getting even crazier:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2148638

QuoteNEW ORLEANS -- The evacuation of the Superdome was suspended Thursday after shots were reported fired at a military helicopter and arson fires broke out outside the arena. No immediate injuries were reported.

 

The scene at the Superdome became increasingly chaotic, with thousands of people rushing from nearby hotels and other buildings, hoping to climb onto the buses taking evacuees from the arena, officials said. Paramedics became increasingly alarmed by the sight of people with guns.

Richard Zeuschlag, chief of the ambulance service that was handling the evacuation of sick and injured people from the Superdome, said it was suspending operations "until they gain control of the Superdome."

He said shots were fired at a military helicopter over the Superdome before daybreak.

He said the National Guard told him that it was sending 100 military police officers to restore order.

"That's not enough," Zeuschlag said. "We need a thousand."

Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard said the military -- which was handling the evacuation of the able-bodied from the Superdome -- had suspended operations, too, because fires set outside the arena were preventing buses from getting close enough to pick up people.

He said tens thousands of people started rushing out of other buildings when they saw buses pulling up and hoped to get on. But the immediate focus was on evacuating people from the Superdome, and the other refugees were left to mill around.

Zeuschlag said paramedics were calling him and crying for help because they were so scared of people with guns at the Superdome. He also said that during the night, when a medical evacuation helicopter tried to land at a hospital in the outlying town of Kenner, the pilot reported 100 people were on the landing pad, some with guns.

they really need to go marshall law at this point.

if someone has a gun, shoot the farger. they are helping no one at this point.

some before and after pics (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/new-orleans-imagery.htm)  :o

They also said in the paper this morning that there were unconfirmed reports of people being raped at the SuperDome too.

Jeez. Looting, raping, fighting, shooting at police and military personnel? That shtein is crazy.

Would it be reactionary to napalm what's left of New Orleans? Clearly these geniuses weren't intelligent enough to get out of dodge and now are reverting to anarchy. We'd be doing the gene pool a favor, not to mention that it would farging kick ass to watch on tv.

QuotePolice: Miss. Man Kills Sister Over Bag Of Ice

HATTIESBURG, Miss. -- Police in Hattiesburg, Miss., said a man fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice.

Authorities say 35-year-old Antonio Page shot his sister with a handgun on a street corner Tuesday night.

Police Chief David Wynn said the woman's name was not available.

Wynn said tempers are short, but he can't understand why a member of someone's family could take that step.

The shooting is being treated like a homicide, Wynn said.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 01, 2005, 09:33:39 AM

Quote from: mikey418 on September 01, 2005, 09:30:49 AM

Quote from: BigEd76 on September 01, 2005, 12:09:15 AM
Ryan Moats said today that he's on a mission to help the man with the yellow shirt that held his wife's hand as she drowned... :(

So Moats lost his wife in the waters?

huh?

My bad...I mis-read it.

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 09:54:13 AM
Would it be reactionary to napalm what's left of New Orleans? Clearly these geniuses weren't intelligent enough to get out of dodge and now are reverting to anarchy. We'd be doing the gene pool a favor, not to mention that it would farging kick ass to watch on tv.

:-D :-D

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 09:54:13 AM
Would it be reactionary to napalm what's left of New Orleans? Clearly these geniuses weren't intelligent enough to get out of dodge and now are reverting to anarchy. We'd be doing the gene pool a favor, not to mention that it would farging kick ass to watch on tv.

no, it would be a great idea, and they could do it pay-per-view and use the proceeds to help the ones who left the area rebuild.

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 01, 2005, 09:52:25 AM
They also said in the paper this morning that there were unconfirmed reports of people being raped at the SuperDome too.

Jeez. Looting, raping, fighting, shooting at police and military personnel? That shtein is crazy.

Sounds like an Eagle game to me.

bring in the special forces and mow these pieces of trash down.  they are a menace to society anyway.  if your not helping people out in a time like this, then get the hell out or be headless, its that simple.  must be all the voodoo shtein.   :(

Quote from: mussa on September 01, 2005, 12:00:49 PM
must be all the voodoo shtein.

(http://summitfreepress.com/agnostic%20picures/Halloween/ROB%20WITCH%20DOCTOR.JPG)


edit- resized picture. 

You've been waiting to post that pic for a long time, haven't you?

rjs, you are a true party animal.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 12:09:37 PM
You've been waiting to post that pic for a long time, haven't you?

My whole life.

The authorities are now calling off the rescue boats because the crowds of victims are getting icreasingly hostile.

Face it - a bunch of little boats and a few buses ain't going to do it. It's about time to start treating this almost like an invasion. The 82nd (and 101st) need to drop in there with supplies, field sanitation equipment, and armed escorts to control the situation while a larger scale rescue is run.

there is always the rjs-plan

A few amphibious assault vehicles and a carpet bomb or seven should clear up that situation.

you have my vote!

i say fill in the fargin hole in the ground...residents, buildings, seals...all off it and rebuild...ABOVE fargIN SEA LEVEL

Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on September 01, 2005, 12:50:28 PM
The authorities are now calling off the rescue boats because the crowds of victims are getting icreasingly hostile.

Face it - a bunch of little boats and a few buses ain't going to do it. It's about time to start treating this almost like an invasion. The 82nd (and 101st) need to drop in there with supplies, field sanitation equipment, and armed escorts to control the situation while a larger scale rescue is run.

Now the "rescue" has turned into a nightmare. They've botched this situation from the start and now they don't know how to adequately fix it (sounds like the Iraq situation). They're transporting people in school busses for God's sake. Get something bigger and get the people out of there. This is one HUGE clusterfarg right now.

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 01, 2005, 01:08:53 PM

Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on September 01, 2005, 12:50:28 PM
The authorities are now calling off the rescue boats because the crowds of victims are getting icreasingly hostile.

Face it - a bunch of little boats and a few buses ain't going to do it. It's about time to start treating this almost like an invasion. The 82nd (and 101st) need to drop in there with supplies, field sanitation equipment, and armed escorts to control the situation while a larger scale rescue is run.

Now the "rescue" has turned into a nightmare. They've botched this situation from the start and now they don't know how to adequately fix it (sounds like the Iraq situation). They're transporting people in school busses for God's sake. Get something bigger and get the people out of there. This is one HUGE clusterfarg right now.

What the Heck are you talking about. "They" i can only imagine you mean the goverment. You are kidding right? The residents, aka looters and thugs are making this worse, they are shooting at the helicopters that are there to help, they are setting fires near the superdome, they are carjacking trucks and cars, they are turning over ambulances when they are trying to evacuate the hospital. This is the fault of the idiots taking advantage of the situation. What the heck are they going to get in there bigger then school buses, the whole area is wrecked. The goverment, the military, the local police, the red cross are doing everything they can.

If I were stuck on my roof I would hang my ass off the edge and drop turd after turd into the flood water and wait for the RPGs to put me out of my misery.

Bushy should be personally piloting  Air Force 1 over the area with ropes hanging out for people to grab to get outta there!

Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on September 01, 2005, 12:50:28 PM
Face it - a bunch of little boats and a few buses ain't going to do it. It's about time to start treating this almost like an invasion. The 82nd (and 101st) need to drop in there with supplies, field sanitation equipment, and armed escorts to control the situation while a larger scale rescue is run.

Agreed.  Force is the only law there now.  Only a massive force will save the lives of the law abiding people who remain.  They're dying by the minute.  I think it's pretty simple.  Tell the soldiers to shoot anyone with a gun.  If you want to be nice, tell the people you've ordered the soldiers to do that.  (drop flyers).  Then send in 50,000 troops. 

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 01:15:36 PM
If I were stuck on my roof I would hang my ass off the edge and drop turd after turd into the flood water and wait for the RPGs to put me out of my misery.

LMFAO :-D :puke

so we're back to the rjs-plan, behave yourself or we're going to napalm your arse.  i like it!

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 01:14:28 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 01, 2005, 01:08:53 PM

Quote from: Susquehanna Birder on September 01, 2005, 12:50:28 PM
The authorities are now calling off the rescue boats because the crowds of victims are getting icreasingly hostile.

Face it - a bunch of little boats and a few buses ain't going to do it. It's about time to start treating this almost like an invasion. The 82nd (and 101st) need to drop in there with supplies, field sanitation equipment, and armed escorts to control the situation while a larger scale rescue is run.

Now the "rescue" has turned into a nightmare. They've botched this situation from the start and now they don't know how to adequately fix it (sounds like the Iraq situation). They're transporting people in school busses for God's sake. Get something bigger and get the people out of there. This is one HUGE clusterfarg right now.

What the Heck are you talking about. "They" i can only imagine you mean the goverment. You are kidding right? The residents, aka looters and thugs are making this worse, they are shooting at the helicopters that are there to help, they are setting fires near the superdome, they are carjacking trucks and cars, they are turning over ambulances when they are trying to evacuate the hospital. This is the fault of the idiots taking advantage of the situation. What the heck are they going to get in there bigger then school buses, the whole area is wrecked. The goverment, the military, the local police, the red cross are doing everything they can.

No I'm not kidding you farging moron. There's people dying out there because the officials running this mess aren't doing the necessary things to save more lives. You act like the National Guard and the Military don't have guns of their own. There's people shooting? Shoot back, but go in there and HELP the people that are out there DYING and just trying to stay alive with no food, no water, and no farging shelter.

And no, they're not doing everything they can or they'd be increasing the efforts to fix this mess not telling them to stop helping people to keep folks from taking things out of stores. It's been three days and people are dying on the streets!

One of the reasons they have stopped is because it's not safe, not just cause of looting. A day after the storm is when this started going bad, when the levee broke and started flooding the rest of the city. NO ONE could have forseen this destruction and mobilized equipment to remove the 50 to 60 thousand people left in the city, in the few days before this storm hit. There are a lot of people in that city that had the means and opportunity to leave the city, but no they thought they could ride out the storm, i really have a hard time feeling sorry for them, it's the people who did not have the means to leave that I feel for. THey are bussing the people to houston and San Antonio now, how the heck can you get 50-60 thousand people out of there faster?

The people at the Superdome are law abiding citizens who could not get out on their own, and who followed the official directions to the shelter.  They have been abandoned for all intents and purposes.

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 01:33:31 PM
THey are bussing the people to houston and San Antonio now, how the heck can you get 50-60 thousand people out of there faster?

Napalm.

Im sure Houston is happy to have all the barbarians shipped into their city.   Couldnt they take em to Dallas instead!

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 01:33:42 PM
The people at the Superdome are law abiding citizens who could not get out on their own, and who followed the official directions to the shelter.  They have been abandoned for all intents and purposes.

They have not been abandoned, and they are not all law abiding citizens, people have been making their way to the superdome for the last few days, and when the busses ariived people started coming even faster to that location.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.impact/index.html

QuoteThere are isolated incidents where security has become an issue for our rescue efforts but only isolated incidents. FEMA is not suspending operations," said Natalie Rule of the Federal Emergency Management Agency in Washington.

QuoteEvacuation points swamped with people
A Louisiana National Guard official told CNN Thursday morning that between 50,000 and 60,000 people had converged at evacuation points near the Louisiana Superdome hoping to get on one of the buses out of town.

"It's no longer just evacuees from the Superdome, as citizens who were holed up in high-rise office buildings and hotels saw buses moving into the dome, they realized this is an evacuation point," Lt. Col. Pete Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard said.

He said there were reports that several small trash fires were burning around the building and firefighters were having a hard time reaching the area.

u think they could get more buses, drive them to the airport, load them on a military plane for christ sakes...its america right?

People have been saying a hurricane in New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen for YEARS. People have been talking about scenarios like this for decades, so no, it's not like this is some random freakish event that no one ever thought could happen. It's been talked about and ignored for nearly 50 years.

A lot of these people left are the poor and destitute of the city. It's not like they could have just hopped in their 2004 SUVs and rambled out of town but decided to ride the hurricane for fun. These people had little before the hurricane and have even less now. These people lost their houses, their food, their jobs, basically their whole lives and all they have left is a helping hand to keep them alive and they're not getting enough help right now.

They've told people go here and do this so we can help you, now they're pulling the help because what they planned is inadequate. Rather than amping up the efforts to an overkill level, they're trying to patch things with a bandaid and it's not working.

Well hopefully they are using all means neccesary, the military plain idea is a good one.

Why don't they just get a high-powered flashlight and shine it at the city until the water has evaporated and the people have been broiled into a deliciously cripsy snack.

Mmmmm... crispy human remains...  :drool

I just checked and it is over a 6 hour drive from new orleans to houston, thats a freakin long bus ride.

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 01:33:31 PMNO ONE could have forseen this destruction..

Exactly this kind of situation was decribed in haunting detail by the Times-Picayune long ago in a big 5 part series three years ago.

Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112543860068627059-6Sq1cBFORPnJqv8o85gyZbCPVdE_20060831,00.html?mod=blogs)
Times Picayune 5 Part Series (http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/)

The looting could have been predicted as well.  It's not like looting is new to the world now that New Orleans has been destroyed.  The fact is that the government has farged this up in a big way.  No time to cry over it..people are dying.  Get the farging military in there, now.

Quote from: mussa on September 01, 2005, 01:42:55 PM
ts america right?

Fvuck yeah!!

Quote from: MURP on September 01, 2005, 01:48:45 PM

Quote from: mussa on September 01, 2005, 01:42:55 PM
ts america right?

Fvuck yeah!!

Quality.

Well I do stand corrected on the forseeing part, I guess you build a big arse city below sea level you are asking for trouble, no time to cry about it, you are correct, I do disagree on the help being sent.

Fats Domino decides to stay at home and not evacuate...now he's missing (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_en_mu/katrina_fats_domino)

What do you know! Even famous people are idiots. Who woulda thunk it.

Inconceivable.

I suppose he's finally found his thrill...

:-\

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 01:33:31 PM
One of the reasons they have stopped is because it's not safe, not just cause of looting. A day after the storm is when this started going bad, when the levee broke and started flooding the rest of the city. NO ONE could have forseen this destruction and mobilized equipment to remove the 50 to 60 thousand people left in the city, in the few days before this storm hit. There are a lot of people in that city that had the means and opportunity to leave the city, but no they thought they could ride out the storm, i really have a hard time feeling sorry for them, it's the people who did not have the means to leave that I feel for. THey are bussing the people to houston and San Antonio now, how the heck can you get 50-60 thousand people out of there faster?

Acutally, I saw a special on NOVA 2 years ago that described this exact situation.  In fact, the mayor of NO said his biggest fear was that after the hurricane passed, people'd come back too soon and get nailed in the aftermath flooding.  People knew this shtein could happen, and didn't build better levies, backup systems or protocols for rapid evacuation.

CNN just read a "desparate SOS" from the Mayor of New Orleans that they're out of resources and don't have enough buses to evactuate people...

Tell me again how they're doing enough to help.  >:(

Quote from: MadMarchHare on September 01, 2005, 02:27:23 PM
People knew this shtein could happen, and didn't build better levies, backup systems or protocols for rapid evacuation.

And because of that their asses are homeless and smell like diseased feet (probably). Let's just force the whole area to secede, nape it, stage a bloody coup, invade their newfound sovereign land, claim it as our own and start over again. It'll be glorious.

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 01, 2005, 02:31:58 PM
CNN just read a "desparate SOS" from the Mayor of New Orleans that they're out of resources and don't have enough buses to evactuate people...

Tell me again how they're doing enough to help.  >:(

There is no way to get all these people out of there in an hour!!! This is not star trek where you can just beam the people up.

QuoteNEW ORLEANS — The evacuation of the New Orleans Superdome was disrupted Thursday after a gun shot reportedly was fired at a military helicopter as thousands of National Guard troops poured into the Crescent City to boost security in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

Where are these  thousands of National Guard?  I haven't seen them yet.  None of the news channels have shown them rolling into town.  Haven't read anything about command centers being established, or patrols being started.

28,000 guardsmen may be dedicated to the disaster, but not many of those are actually there doing anything.  And that's not enough troops anyway.  Double that number, and put fully half of them on "shoot anyone with a gun" duty.  If you're walking around with a gun, you lose. 

The point is THEY'RE NOT DOING ENOUGH TO HELP right now! Why you have such a hard time grasping such a simple thing is beyond me. They don't need to get them out of there in an hour. They DO need to get them food, water and shelter. They don't have enough resources to do what they need to do to save lives. They don't have enough because they've screwed this entire process from the beginning. There's no organization, no sense of law & order, no real sense of leadership or control, and tons of lip service from the officials at the top while people continue to die in the streets because they can't get basic services to keep them alive because there's no order in New Orleans.

I swear I'm talking to a wall...

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 02:54:38 PM
Where are these thousands of National Guard? I haven't seen them yet. None of the news channels have shown them rolling into town. Haven't read anything about command centers being established, or patrols being started.

You haven't seen the Guards because they're not there yet. They're saying they won't start getting more of them in until tomorrow. There's not enough people. There's only 4000 of the Guard people there now and who knows WHERE they are. They've got people coming, but they're not there now (three days later) and the dead continue to pile up.

QuoteNEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- New Orleans' Charity Hospital halted efforts to evacuate its patients after it came under sniper fire, according to Dr. Tyler Curiel, who witnessed the incidents.
The attack came as New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin issued "a desperate SOS" for the thousands of people stranded in an around the city's convention center with no food or water and fading hope.
Curiel and his National Guard escorts, were returning to the hospital after dropping off patients at nearby Tulane Medical Center, when someone started shooting at their convoy of Humvees.
"We were coming in from a parking deck at Tulane Medical Center, and a guy in a white shirt started firing at us," Curiel said. "The National Guard (troops), wearing flak jackets, tried to get a bead on this guy. "
The incident happened around 11:30 a.m. (12:30 p.m. ET). About an hour later, another gunman opened fire at the back of Charity Hospital.
"We got back to Charity Hospital with with food from Tulane and we said, 'OK the snipers are behind us, let's move on,'" Curiel said. "We started loading patients (for transport) and 20 minutes later, shots rang out."
The National Guard soldiers told staff to get away from the windows, and evacuations were halted.
Charity Hospital has no electricity, no water and the only food available is couple of cans of vegetables and graham crackers.
Evacuations by boat were halted after armed looters threatened medics, and overturned one of their boats.
The sniper attacks were the latest incidents of violence that have disrupted efforts to help people in the flooded city.

So, why didn't the Guardsmen return fire?

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 01, 2005, 02:54:50 PM
The point is THEY'RE NOT DOING ENOUGH TO HELP right now! Why you have such a hard time grasping such a simple thing is beyond me. They don't need to get them out of there in an hour. They DO need to get them food, water and shelter. They don't have enough resources to do what they need to do to save lives. They don't have enough because they've screwed this entire process from the beginning. There's no organization, no sense of law & order, no real sense of leadership or control, and tons of lip service from the officials at the top while people continue to die in the streets because they can't get basic services to keep them alive because there's no order in New Orleans.

I swear I'm talking to a wall...

You are not talking to a wall, I do realize that there is not enough troops, water or food there now. My main point is that they are working on it, you think it's not fast enough, and I think it's a huge operation to get started and they are working on it as fast as they can. What else can I say.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 03:15:05 PM

So, why didn't the Guardsmen return fire?

They were obviously busy staring at each others' cocks.

the PC people will have a field day with the first incident where our troops fire on one of these jagbags.

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 03:22:48 PM
the PC people will have a field day with the first incident where our troops fire on one of these jagbags.

Fine, shoot them too. Actually, shoot them first.

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 03:29:56 PM

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 03:22:48 PM
the PC people will have a field day with the first incident where our troops fire on one of these jagbags.

Fine, shoot them too. Actually, shoot them first.

another great idea

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 03:29:56 PM

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 03:22:48 PM
the PC people will have a field day with the first incident where our troops fire on one of these jagbags.

Fine, shoot them too. Actually, shoot them first.

:-D

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 03:29:56 PM

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 03:22:48 PM
the PC people will have a field day with the first incident where our troops fire on one of these jagbags.

Fine, shoot them too. Actually, shoot them first.

brilliant

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 03:18:47 PM
You are not talking to a wall, I do realize that there is not enough troops, water or food there now.

Thank you! That's the first time you've said that. That they're not doing it fast enough is obvious to anyone that can hold a rational thought. That they don't have enough is what I've been saying and you were, until now, saying that wasn't so. So thank you for finally admitting it.

Like I suggested before, the plan to move people out of the area is just wrong. They should bring troops in, set up temporary living conditions (like a tent city) and start saving lives right there. Once the situation is stable and people aren't dying while they wait for help, they can attack the logisitical problem of moving people out and rebuiding.

Well I suppose they figure the city is so badly damaged that it has to be abandonded altogether, so they're fixated on evacuation rather than relief.

I'm just thinking that if they can mobilize assistance to places in very remote parts of the world, they sure as hell can do it in the deep south.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 04:18:24 PM
Well I suppose they figure the city is so badly damaged that it has to be abandonded altogether, so they're fixated on evacuation rather than relief.

Which is why this is all farged up because they're not adquately prepared to evacuate the entire city and never have been. It seems like the people at the top just panicked and now don't have any idea how to get things back under control.

This is boring. Will someone other than me start making jokes about this horrible disaster?

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 01, 2005, 03:54:46 PM

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 01, 2005, 03:18:47 PM
You are not talking to a wall, I do realize that there is not enough troops, water or food there now.

Thank you! That's the first time you've said that. That they're not doing it fast enough is obvious to anyone that can hold a rational thought. That they don't have enough is what I've been saying and you were, until now, saying that wasn't so. So thank you for finally admitting it.

i think they have the resources and the troops, but getting into those areas has to be a nightmare, sorry I could not put my thoughts to words, it's been a loooong week.

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 04:30:00 PM
This is boring. Will someone other than me start making jokes about this horrible disaster?

i've been calling for napalming the area since you first mentioned it.  it also solves another problem, the heat from the napalm would dry the area out, thus allowing the rebuilding process to start sooner.

It stopped being funny a while ago.  I just can't come up with a joke.  Show me some video of an armed looter getting his face shot off and then I'll laugh.

its like vice city new orleans style

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 03:15:05 PM

QuoteNEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- New Orleans' Charity Hospital halted efforts to evacuate its patients after it came under sniper fire, according to Dr. Tyler Curiel, who witnessed the incidents.
The attack came as New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin issued "a desperate SOS" for the thousands of people stranded in an around the city's convention center with no food or water and fading hope.
Curiel and his National Guard escorts, were returning to the hospital after dropping off patients at nearby Tulane Medical Center, when someone started shooting at their convoy of Humvees.
"We were coming in from a parking deck at Tulane Medical Center, and a guy in a white shirt started firing at us," Curiel said. "The National Guard (troops), wearing flak jackets, tried to get a bead on this guy. "
The incident happened around 11:30 a.m. (12:30 p.m. ET). About an hour later, another gunman opened fire at the back of Charity Hospital.
"We got back to Charity Hospital with with food from Tulane and we said, 'OK the snipers are behind us, let's move on,'" Curiel said. "We started loading patients (for transport) and 20 minutes later, shots rang out."
The National Guard soldiers told staff to get away from the windows, and evacuations were halted.
Charity Hospital has no electricity, no water and the only food available is couple of cans of vegetables and graham crackers.
Evacuations by boat were halted after armed looters threatened medics, and overturned one of their boats.
The sniper attacks were the latest incidents of violence that have disrupted efforts to help people in the flooded city.

So, why didn't the Guardsmen return fire?

My mother owns a daycare and one of the fathers is a full time guardsmen about to be deployed there.  His wife said they probably will not be given live ammunition.

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 01, 2005, 06:48:46 PMMy mother owns a daycare and one of the fathers is a full time guardsmen about to be deployed there. His wife said they probably will not be given live ammunition.

In that case, why go?  No, seriously.  Why go?  It's a dogfight.  You gotta be able to return fire.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 07:39:14 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 01, 2005, 06:48:46 PMMy mother owns a daycare and one of the fathers is a full time guardsmen about to be deployed there. His wife said they probably will not be given live ammunition.

In that case, why go? No, seriously. Why go? It's a dogfight. You gotta be able to return fire.

They're going to be armed with Snickers bars with the hope that they have a more devastating effect on people than they do deer. 

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 01, 2005, 01:51:40 PM
Fats Domino decides to stay at home and not evacuate...now he's missing (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_en_mu/katrina_fats_domino)

And now he is found. (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/01/katrina.fats.domino/index.html)

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 07:39:14 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 01, 2005, 06:48:46 PMMy mother owns a daycare and one of the fathers is a full time guardsmen about to be deployed there. His wife said they probably will not be given live ammunition.

In that case, why go?  No, seriously.  Why go?  It's a dogfight.  You gotta be able to return fire.

I won't disagree with you there, but we all know the consequences if you don't.  In general this is just an unbelievably sad situation.  You watch the news and you would swear that this was a 3rd world country.

QuoteOne displaced resident at the Louisiana Superdome, however, issued a warning to authorities who may be headed to the stadium, where up to 30,000 people had sought refuge after Monday's hurricane and now await evacuation to Texas by bus.

"Please don't send the National Guard," he said. "Send someone with a bullhorn outside the place that can talk to these people first."

He described scenes of lawlessness and desperation, with people simply dragging corpses into corners.

"They have quite a few people running around here with guns," he said. "You got these young teenage boys running around up here raping these girls."

Elsewhere, groups of armed men wandered the streets, buildings smoldered and people picked through stores for what they could find.

hell on earth, on television 24/7.  I wonder how you can find out how much the rates for ads on CNN  and the other news networds have increased during Katrina.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 10:05:54 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 01, 2005, 01:51:40 PM
Fats Domino decides to stay at home and not evacuate...now he's missing (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_en_mu/katrina_fats_domino)

And now he is found. (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/01/katrina.fats.domino/index.html)

Am I the only one who was surprised that he was still alive?

Hadn't really thought about his chances that much.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 10:13:19 PM
Hadn't really thought about his chances that much.

Actually, I meant alive in the first place.   :paranoid

Quote from: Geowhizzer on September 01, 2005, 10:18:53 PM

Quote from: Diomedes on September 01, 2005, 10:13:19 PM
Hadn't really thought about his chances that much.

Actually, I meant alive in the first place. :paranoid

Oh.  No, that didn't surprise me.  I knew he was still around.

"Escape From New Orleans"

:-\

300 Guardsmen (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,16466908-23109,00.html) dropped into New Orleans with orders to kill hoodlums.

maybe they can send in another 25,000 and knock this shtein off.  we'll cover the overtime. 

also:

Quote[Colonel Henry Whitehorn of the Louisiana State Police] admitted that a number of police officers, who had lost everything in flooding after Hurricane Katrina which roared ashore last Monday, had handed in their badges, unwilling to take the fight to looters.

link (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367#new)

published June 6, 2005

QuoteIn fiscal year 2006, the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is bracing for a record $71.2 million reduction in federal funding.

It would be the largest single-year funding loss ever for the New Orleans district, Corps officials said.

...

There is an economic ripple effect, too. The cuts mean major hurricane and flood protection projects will not be awarded to local engineering firms. Also, a study to determine ways to protect the region from a Category 5 hurricane has been shelved for now.

...

One of the hardest-hit areas of the New Orleans district's budget is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes. SELA's budget is being drained from $36.5 million awarded in 2005 to $10.4 million suggested for 2006 by the House of Representatives and the president.

I give up.  I can't watch CNN or MSNBC anymore.  I can't keep seeing these little kids that are near death or already dead.  It's killing me.  This is farging America!!  Our government is more interested in Iraq than the U.S.  It's insane.  I want to do something and i can't.  I want to help those people...cripes...what in the hell can we do?  It seems like the money getting sent in isn't really doing anything right now. 

SaintsReport.com (http://www.saintsreport.com/forums/)

The Saints' top MB, there's stories of posters checking in from places other than their regular homes...  :-\

This is dragging on too long, If we can drop big arse food and water drops after the tsunami within three  days, how can we not be air dropping food and water to these people at least stuck at the superdome, and convention center. I know I was defending the efforts yesterday, but after looking at the extended time to get them just the basics wow, I am amazed we have not had drops into these areas. It scares the crap out of me for a couple of reasons, the worst being if there was another disaster or terrorist attack in or around Chicago, this could be me on tv with my family. It makes me want to go and get extra cases of water at the least and store them for this. Our goverment as a whole needs to be drilled for this from the bottom to the top, congress is on vacation and the president has been telling us help is on the way for four days, and not even the basics are there.At least get them air drops of water and food. I am deeply dissapointed in the efforts of just getting our American brothers and sisters just food and water.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 02, 2005, 12:20:10 AM
Our government is more interested in Iraq than the U.S.  It's insane.  I want to do something and i can't.  I want to help those people...cripes...what in the hell can we do?  It seems like the money getting sent in isn't really doing anything right now. 

Some of us have seen this all along.

My mom has volunteered to go with the Red Cross down south. She has to do a 3 week training course first and then she'll be down there for a few weeks voluneering her time.  :yay  I'm really proud of her.

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.fire.ap.jpg)

Looks like a farging warzone.  :'(

Quote from: T_Section224 on September 01, 2005, 04:47:59 PM

Quote from: rjs246 on September 01, 2005, 04:30:00 PM
This is boring. Will someone other than me start making jokes about this horrible disaster?

i've been calling for napalming the area since you first mentioned it.  it also solves another problem, the heat from the napalm would dry the area out, thus allowing the rebuilding process to start sooner.

Napalming is so 'Nam.  We need to drop some MOABs on their asses.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 08:27:15 AM
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.fire.ap.jpg)

Looks like a farging warzone.  :'(

Or Hell 

QuoteFarrakhan: God punishing U.S. for Iraq with storm

Speaking to a large crowd in South Philadelphia last night, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan suggested that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina was divine punishment for the violence America had inflicted on Iraq.

"New Orleans is the first of the cities going to tumble down... unless America changes its course," Farrakhan said.

"It is the wickedness of the people of America and the government of America that is bringing the wrath of God down," he told several hundred people at Tinsley Temple United Methodist Church.

His remarks were enthusiastically received.

He was in town as part of a multicity tour designed to drum up support for an Oct. 15 event in Washington designed to build on and commemorate the 10th anniversary of the Million Man March he organized in 1995. The new effort is called the Millions More Movement.

Farrakhan made similar remarks at a luncheon hosted by District 33 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which represents blue-collar city workers.

"The justice of God is coming home now," he said in an hour-long speech. Among those attending were City Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, Mayor Street's son Sharif Street, and Imam Shamsud-din Ali, the Muslim cleric convicted in the City Hall corruption probe.- Frederick Cusick
and Michael Currie Schaffer

From throughout the world, compassion for the victims

From papal prayers to telegrams from China, the world reacted with an outpouring of compassion yesterday for the victims of Hurricane Katrina in messages tinged by shock that a disaster of this scale could occur in the United States.

Venezuela, which has had tense relations with Washington, offered humanitarian aid and fuel if requested. French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent President Bush messages of sympathy, and Saudi King Abdullah did the same by phone.

Amid the sympathy, however, there were opposing reactions.

Islamic extremists rejoiced, declaring in Internet chatter that "Private" Katrina had joined the global jihad, or holy war. With "God's help," they declared, oil prices would hit $100 a barrel this year. - AP

NBC benefit tomorrow for Katrina relief fund

NBC Universal yesterday announced plans to televise a benefit concert tomorrow to raise money for Katrina victims.

The hour-long special, A Concert for Hurricane Relief, is set for 8 p.m. on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC and will air live on the East Coast. NBC's Matt Lauer will be host; performers will include Tim McGraw, Harry Connick Jr. and Wynton Marsalis, the network said. Viewers will be encouraged to donate to the American Red Cross.

Evangelist says storm 'destroyed a wicked city'

Repent America, the Christian ministry in Lansdowne known for its street demonstrations against homosexuality, said yesterday that Katrina was "an act of God" that "destroyed a wicked city" because it hit on the eve of a large gay festival in New Orleans.

Michael Marcavage, Repent America's leader, cited Southern Decadence, an often-raucous celebration that was to open today in the French Quarter for the 34th year. "Let us pray for those ravaged by this disaster," he said. "However, we must not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long."

Doug Fulenwider, superintendent of the Louisiana district council of the Assemblies of God, said Marcavage was "flinging barbs" at the wrong time. "Many of our pastors have lost their churches," Fulenwider said, "and they certainly didn't do anything against God."

I have a better idea for that Napalm.....

Did you guys heard the mayor of NO interview on CNN?

He called in to a radio station and gave a great interview. He blasted the feds, blasted Bush and was basically begging for help. Him and the radio host started crying at the end of the call and he had to hang up because of his emotions.

If any of you can find a link to it, check it out, Powerful stuff.

Heard it on the radio this morning. That dude will be reelected by the people of that city everytime he runs for the rest of his life. Awesome interview.

Cant wait for the documentary on this mess to be finished and out in theatres. 

Yeah, I've listened to it.  No spin there.  Like what he says or not, he's not farging around.  Unlike the rest of the government officials we keep seeing.

You can download an .mp3 of that call in a lot of places.  I found one at the neo-conservative/nationalist website freerepublic.com.  But I'm sure there are others.

did a quick look...here's a link, hope it works: link (http://www.hollowroom.plus.com/)

Quote from the Mayor of New Orleans right on CNN.

Mayor blasts feds: "'Get off your asses"

QuoteHomeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Thursday that he thinks the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other federal agencies have done a "magnificent job" under difficult circumstances, citing their "courage" and "ingenuity."

Insisting that aid is coming as fast as possible, Chertoff said, "You can't fly helicopters in a hurricane. You can't drive trucks in a hurricane."

Is this farging guy for real?

Hurricane's been over for FOUR days icehole and you STILL don't have enough there.

Good National Geographic article predicting this kind of event.

National Geographic Magazine, October 2004 (http://205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html?fs=www7.nationalgeographic.com)

If I hear one more government apologist say "no one could have known," or "they're doing great given the horrible situation which we could never have prepared for..." I'm going to vomit.

edit: cleaned up the link

Quote from: Diomedes on September 02, 2005, 11:00:59 AM
If I hear one more government apologist say "no one could have known," or "they're doing great given the horrible situation which we could never have prepared for..." I'm going to vomit.

Ditto. Plan for the worst, you farging idiots.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 10:39:04 AM

QuoteHomeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said Thursday that he thinks the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other federal agencies have done a "magnificent job" under difficult circumstances, citing their "courage" and "ingenuity."

Insisting that aid is coming as fast as possible, Chertoff said, "You can't fly helicopters in a hurricane. You can't drive trucks in a hurricane."

Is this farging guy for real?

Hurricane's been over for FOUR days icehole and you STILL don't have enough there.

On an unrelated note, I know Chertoff's kid. He's a nice lad.

Tell him his dad is a farging icehole.

Thanks in advance.

He's12 years old, I guess he better start learning that his dad is a zesty pile of crap.

This is farging ridiculous. I can't believe all the back slapping and mugging for the camera these iceholes are doing while people are still dying. All the resources this country has and they can't get food or water into a city or people out. This is a god damn farging joke and it's sickening.

don't worry, the guns are on their way down so the can take care of the criminals so they can then get food, water, shelter, and medical help to those who need it.

Well, that only took a week. Napalm would have smelled better. Like victory.

i love the smell of napalm in the morning

Like I said...here's a great reason for Napalm:

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 09:07:24 AM

QuoteFarrakhan: God punishing U.S. for Iraq with storm

Speaking to a large crowd in South Philadelphia last night, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan suggested that the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina was divine punishment for the violence America had inflicted on Iraq.

"New Orleans is the first of the cities going to tumble down... unless America changes its course," Farrakhan said.

"It is the wickedness of the people of America and the government of America that is bringing the wrath of God down," he told several hundred people at Tinsley Temple United Methodist Church.

His remarks were enthusiastically received.

He was in town as part of a multicity tour designed to drum up support for an Oct. 15 event in Washington designed to build on and commemorate the 10th anniversary of the Million Man March he organized in 1995. The new effort is called the Millions More Movement.

Farrakhan made similar remarks at a luncheon hosted by District 33 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which represents blue-collar city workers.

"The justice of God is coming home now," he said in an hour-long speech. Among those attending were City Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell, Mayor Street's son Sharif Street, and Imam Shamsud-din Ali, the Muslim cleric convicted in the City Hall corruption probe.- Frederick Cusick
and Michael Currie Schaffer

From throughout the world, compassion for the victims

From papal prayers to telegrams from China, the world reacted with an outpouring of compassion yesterday for the victims of Hurricane Katrina in messages tinged by shock that a disaster of this scale could occur in the United States.

Venezuela, which has had tense relations with Washington, offered humanitarian aid and fuel if requested. French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent President Bush messages of sympathy, and Saudi King Abdullah did the same by phone.

Amid the sympathy, however, there were opposing reactions.

Islamic extremists rejoiced, declaring in Internet chatter that "Private" Katrina had joined the global jihad, or holy war. With "God's help," they declared, oil prices would hit $100 a barrel this year. - AP

NBC benefit tomorrow for Katrina relief fund

NBC Universal yesterday announced plans to televise a benefit concert tomorrow to raise money for Katrina victims.

The hour-long special, A Concert for Hurricane Relief, is set for 8 p.m. on NBC, MSNBC and CNBC and will air live on the East Coast. NBC's Matt Lauer will be host; performers will include Tim McGraw, Harry Connick Jr. and Wynton Marsalis, the network said. Viewers will be encouraged to donate to the American Red Cross.

Evangelist says storm 'destroyed a wicked city'

Repent America, the Christian ministry in Lansdowne known for its street demonstrations against homosexuality, said yesterday that Katrina was "an act of God" that "destroyed a wicked city" because it hit on the eve of a large gay festival in New Orleans.

Michael Marcavage, Repent America's leader, cited Southern Decadence, an often-raucous celebration that was to open today in the French Quarter for the 34th year. "Let us pray for those ravaged by this disaster," he said. "However, we must not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long."

Doug Fulenwider, superintendent of the Louisiana district council of the Assemblies of God, said Marcavage was "flinging barbs" at the wrong time. "Many of our pastors have lost their churches," Fulenwider said, "and they certainly didn't do anything against God."

I have a better idea for that Napalm.....

Weee... one week and a few hundred dead bodies later and help arrives. Inside the continental U.S. Right on! :yay

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 12:43:04 PM
Weee... one week and a few hundred dead bodies later and help arrives. Inside the continental U.S. Right on! :yay

They'd have been in Iraq in one day. Great priorities this wonderful government has.  :yay :yay

let's not underestimate the poor job done by the city and state government in planning for this storm.  they knew it was coming, they knew there was always a possibility of this happening, but they didn't have a plan?  now they're left with lawlessness to the point that the troops have to be sent in to settle the area down and get the rest of the people out.  that's some great planning on their part.

Dude, they had pre-hurricane parties to worry about.

of course, duh.

so, is it agreed we go full force with the rjs-plan?

You know. I'm only half-kidding about naping that city. The police are corrupt. The city is filthy. There is so much crime there that it's not really safe at all. The entire economy of the area is built around debauchery, which I have no problem with but means that after a catastrophe like this which will completely destroy the tourism industry for several months if not longer that the city will be generating no income on its own. The people what are left in the city are homeless and resorting to mob violence and anarchy...

The city must be razed.  Seriously.  Tens of thousands of homes must be destroyed.  You cannot salvage any of it.  Literally, the city has been destroyed.

Move everyone out.  Post signs when it will be destroyed.  Send in the napalm.  Halliburton will be glad to help.

MOABs.  It's not the 60s guys!

Dude, all of the technological advances on earth will never replace the coolness of napalm. Ever.

You didn't see the file footage of a MOAB going off then....

EDIT:  link - http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/11/sprj.irq.moab/

Fat Mikey checks in (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2005-09-02)  :poison

QuoteVacation is Over... an open letter from Michael Moore to George W. Bush

Friday, September 2nd, 2005

Dear Mr. Bush:

Any idea where all our helicopters are? It's Day 5 of Hurricane Katrina and thousands remain stranded in New Orleans and need to be airlifted. Where on earth could you have misplaced all our military choppers? Do you need help finding them? I once lost my car in a Sears parking lot. Man, was that a drag.

Also, any idea where all our national guard soldiers are? We could really use them right now for the type of thing they signed up to do like helping with national disasters. How come they weren't there to begin with?

Last Thursday I was in south Florida and sat outside while the eye of Hurricane Katrina passed over my head. It was only a Category 1 then but it was pretty nasty. Eleven people died and, as of today, there were still homes without power. That night the weatherman said this storm was on its way to New Orleans. That was Thursday! Did anybody tell you? I know you didn't want to interrupt your vacation and I know how you don't like to get bad news. Plus, you had fundraisers to go to and mothers of dead soldiers to ignore and smear. You sure showed her!

I especially like how, the day after the hurricane, instead of flying to Louisiana, you flew to San Diego to party with your business peeps. Don't let people criticize you for this -- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

And don't listen to those who, in the coming days, will reveal how you specifically reduced the Army Corps of Engineers' budget for New Orleans this summer for the third year in a row. You just tell them that even if you hadn't cut the money to fix those levees, there weren't going to be any Army engineers to fix them anyway because you had a much more important construction job for them -- BUILDING DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ!

On Day 3, when you finally left your vacation home, I have to say I was moved by how you had your Air Force One pilot descend from the clouds as you flew over New Orleans so you could catch a quick look of the disaster. Hey, I know you couldn't stop and grab a bullhorn and stand on some rubble and act like a commander in chief. Been there done that.

There will be those who will try to politicize this tragedy and try to use it against you. Just have your people keep pointing that out. Respond to nothing. Even those pesky scientists who predicted this would happen because the water in the Gulf of Mexico is getting hotter and hotter making a storm like this inevitable. Ignore them and all their global warming Chicken Littles. There is nothing unusual about a hurricane that was so wide it would be like having one F-4 tornado that stretched from New York to Cleveland.

No, Mr. Bush, you just stay the course. It's not your fault that 30 percent of New Orleans lives in poverty or that tens of thousands had no transportation to get out of town. C'mon, they're black! I mean, it's not like this happened to Kennebunkport. Can you imagine leaving white people on their roofs for five days? Don't make me laugh! Race has nothing -- NOTHING -- to do with this!

You hang in there, Mr. Bush. Just try to find a few of our Army helicopters and send them there. Pretend the people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast are near Tikrit.

Yours,

Michael Moore

That thing is badass..... it's got to be right up there w/ Sharks w/ laser beams attached to their heads.

Sorry dude, napalm is a distant 3rd.  IMO

Quote-- after all, the hurricane was over and what the heck could you do, put your finger in the dike?

isn't that a dream we all share?

They were using it in Afghanistan to suck all the air out of caves.  Safer than sending in troops to clear them out.  Apparently the force is so strong, it creates a vacuum within the cave.

I can remember one of the generals describing the scene in the caves after a blast (paraphrasing):  The people inside, well, it's not pretty.

i'm backing the mmh-plan

Turncoat!

i'm thinking now.  if we started with napalm, that would start a pretty big fire, and how can you put a fire out, get rid of the oxygen, right.  so it we fire-bombed it with napalm, then dropped the moab, we would not only destroy the area, start to dry it out, but then put the fire out so the rebuilding can begin sooner.  this is brilliant thinking going on at cf.  who thought that was even possible.

Anyone else see our Prez backpedaling after his "unacceptable" comments this morning?

Napalm Bush!

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 01:59:40 PM
Anyone else see our Prez backpedaling after his "unacceptable" comments this morning?

I saw that. What a farging worm. This guy has no sense of reality.

I'll pay you.

no, but i've seen footage of him falling off a segue

Stories from inside the SuperDome (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-superdome1sep01,0,4489032.story?coll=la-home-headlines)

I still can't believe how long it's taken to get this rolling and that there's still people stuck on top of buildings out there. It's just mindboggling and pathetically sad.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 02:09:57 PM
Stories from inside the SuperDome (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-superdome1sep01,0,4489032.story?coll=la-home-headlines)

not to make any light of that particular situation, but a passing thought i had was after this is all said and done, and cleanup and rebuilding is in the works...i dont see how the saints could ever go back into playing there.

it's taken on a new "life" so to speak, the lure of the place will have the same as some of the plantations and old boarding houses in the french quarter.

Um I don't think anything in that city will be ready for much of anything for a while. The Superdome is probably going to be leveled. It's full of human waste and dead bodies. It's gots huge holes in the roof. There have been some pretty awful acts of violence there. I would be stunned they don't raze it.

This is unbelievable.  There should have been convoys of food, supplies, and water sent to the Superdome and the Convention Center days ago.  It understandable that it could take some time to assemble the sheer amount of supplies it would take to feed 100,000 people, but damn...something is better than nothing.

Quote from: rjs246 on September 02, 2005, 02:25:10 PM
Um I don't think anything in that city will be ready for much of anything for a while. The Superdome is probably going to be leveled. It's full of human waste and dead bodies. It's gots huge holes in the roof. There have been some pretty awful acts of violence there. I would be stunned they don't raze it.

i was thinking more along the lines of next year.

at the earliest. if ever.

the irony being the history of violence was part of the lure of new orleans.

trying to think ahead  to the rebuild part of this, i just dont see how it can be fixed without leveling and literally moving the city to safer ground.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

Basically, these guys are holed up on the 15th floor of a high-rise. They're security/computer guys, keeping a network up. They're former military, and have 20 days of generator power.

Fascinating, fascinating reading.

Philly to help (http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=3406299)

Why even try?  Get everyone out, make sure there isn't some looming environmental disaster (if there is, clean it as best you can), and leave it for the crocs.  As Dio has said countless times, stupid farging place to put a city.

Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on September 02, 2005, 02:34:23 PM
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

Basically, these guys are holed up on the 15th floor of a high-rise. They're security/computer guys, keeping a network up. They're former military, and have 20 days of generator power.

Fascinating, fascinating reading.

Thanks for that link.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 02, 2005, 02:38:35 PM

Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on September 02, 2005, 02:34:23 PM
http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/

Basically, these guys are holed up on the 15th floor of a high-rise. They're security/computer guys, keeping a network up. They're former military, and have 20 days of generator power.

Fascinating, fascinating reading.

Thanks for that link.

Ditto... how much of this won't come out for months/years while the media continues to interview the talking heads.

thanks Demon.  just got their cam to stream on windows media player... looking at a smoking building in the distance..

from Demons link... interviewing a police officer

QuoteOver 30 officers have quit over the last 3 days. Out of 160 officers in his district maybe 55 or 60 are working. He hasn't seen several since Sunday. HQ is closed, evacuated. No phones to contact them.

Also from the link:

QuoteNew Orleans Police Department Status: The situation for the NOPD is critical. This is firsthand information I have from an NOPD officer we're giving shelter to. Their command and control infrastructure is shot. They have limited to no communication whatsoever. He didn't even know the city was under martial law until we told him! His precinct (5th Precinct) is under water! UNDER WATER -- every vehicle under water. They had to commander moving trucks like Ryder and UHaul to get around. The coroner's office is shut down so bodies are being covered in leaves at best or left where they lie at worst.

They don't even know their own rules of engagement. He says the force is impotent right now. They have no idea what's going on, no coordination, virtually no comms, etc. the National Guard is gonna air drop a radio system for them with 200 radios? They are getting very little direction.

The 3rd District bugged out to Baton Rouge because they flooded out.

His quote: "It's a zoo."

So many people out there still just have no idea how terrible this is and has been.

Quote from: MURP on September 02, 2005, 03:13:36 PM
from Demons link... interviewing a police officer

QuoteOver 30 officers have quit over the last 3 days. Out of 160 officers in his district maybe 55 or 60 are working. He hasn't seen several since Sunday. HQ is closed, evacuated. No phones to contact them.

Spineless police officers?! Who'dathunkit!?

You see stuff on the news and in online articles, but none of them do justice for how bad it really is.

The interview with the cop in that blog is frightening.  I'm simply amazed at how brittle civilization is.

Read (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html)

Is big brother being exposed before our very eyes?

Who thinks Louisiana will be a red state in '08?

mayor and gov are dems

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 03:25:40 PM
Read (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/index.html)

What's so appauling is the outright lying they're doing.

Agreed, it makes my skin crawl.

Quote from: DemonchildrenOnTurf on September 02, 2005, 03:17:39 PMI'm simply amazed at how brittle civilization is.

We think awful highly of ourselves, don't we?

Caption this.

Mayor Nagin and Bush
(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.1506.bush.mayor.cnn.jpg)

is that the mayor or Tom Morello ?

Pretty cool set up here. (http://www.idofoundation.org/ga/katrina/)

For people getting married..this site now has the option to donate to the Hurricane Katrina Relief Fund as a favor for your guests. For a donation of your choice they will print up cards for your reception that a donation has been made on your guests behalf.  :yay

Why weren't all these buses used during the initial evac??

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

The mayor and gov of LA (along with FEMA) will have a lot of explaining to do.

Given that they're in New Orleans actually getting to those buses (much less assuming they'll still run) has probably been all but impossible since they haven't been able to get any help to move around the city for 5 days.

And those buses might run just fine, but there's no one in the city to drive them and they haven't had any sort of order to get people to the buses or get them out of that water filled lot.

Scratch that... you said the initial evacuation... Well, that my friend is a very good question and one that I echo.

They should have been available during the initial evac (prior to the levees breaking).

Right, I read your post wrong at first. Mea Culpa. That's an excellent question.

Red Cross donations as of 4:10pm

Total Collected:     $37,158,535
Number of Donors:    256,195

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 04:12:53 PM
Red Cross donations as of 4:10pm

Total Collected:    $37,158,535
Number of Donors:    256,195

Giving what our government won't: what we can.

Here's a question I have:  is it simple coincidence that the aid arrived when Bush did? 

Quote from: Diomedes on September 02, 2005, 04:36:16 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 04:12:53 PM
Red Cross donations as of 4:10pm

Total Collected:    $37,158,535
Number of Donors:    256,195

Giving what our government won't: what we can.

Only 30 minutes later:

Total Collected:     $37,409,690
Number of Donors:    258,022

not to be political.

but this makes me sick to think about that it's happening anywhere. but even moreso that it's within our borders (and an aside, i am not that naive to think that natural or manmade disasters can happen within our borders, no one is immune to that). but the complete and total BULLSH|T WEVE BEEN FED BY OUR FEDERAL GOVERMENT.

what the holy farg was all that crap we were fed by our president in the creation of this so called HOMELAND SECURITY department that was made up, and supposedly created FOR THIS EXACT SITUATION.

how can someone justify spending money on "homeland security" while cutting FEMA and prevention budgets (army corps of engineers)?!?!? if there isnt a bigger peice of proof of the hypocracy of our president, i dont know what is. and yes, HIS signature is on the bottom of all of that.

this is a bigger mess and a giant clusterfarg than the aftermath of 9/11/01 will ever be.

you know the difference between the two? one happened in what may be one of the poorest area's in this country. the other hit the backbone of our economy. that is ALL you need to know right there as to why it's taken 4 or 5 days to get help to these people!

christ, i really really HOPE that there is a gas shortage, that it goes up to $5/gallon. it seems to be the only thing this country REALLY  cares about in regards to this...let the gas prices rise, so people get so pissed about this that none of these shtein faces have a prayer of re-election.

the storm was a tragedy, and i feel terrible for the people. but the people draggin their asses around, and taking SO GODDAMN LONG TO HELP THESE PEOPLE should be downright ashamed of themselves.

farg them.

Quote from: Wingspan on September 02, 2005, 05:04:33 PM
what the holy farg was all that crap we were fed by our president in the creation of this so called HOMELAND SECURITY department that was made up, and supposedly created FOR THIS EXACT SITUATION.

My wife and I were talking about that at the game last night (the conversation was more interesting than that monstrosity).  Since 9-11, haven't we been planning for a scenario just like this??  I mean, this is similar to a serious terror attack (dirty bomb, chem/bio release, etc.) and we look like complete iceholes because we cannot save our own people within our border.

Farging embarrassing and so sad.

Condoleeza is on CNN right now, sucking Satan's cock.

(http://www.fauxnews.com/images/bush_Florida_Hurricane.jpg)

Jesus Christ, these people can't get a farging break.  Now a bus carrying evacuees has flipped over on some goddamned highway.

Bush just had a heart attack (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9175553/#typoedthefirstone)

QuoteMajor oil spill' seen on Mississippi River
Capacity of leaking tanks estimated at 160,000 barrels
The sheen from an oil spill on the Mississippi River is seen Thursday. At left are the two storage tanks leaking oil.
Louisiana DEQ 


BREAKING NEWS
By Miguel Llanos
Reporter
MSNBC
Updated: 5:15 p.m. ET Sept. 2, 2005
A "major oil spill" has been spotted from two storage tanks southeast of New Orleans, the state Department of Environmental Quality said Friday.

The spill was first spotted Thursday during a flyover, department spokeswoman Jean Kelly told MSNBC.com, "but we still don't have access to the area."

The spill was just north of Venice, a town in the Mississippi River Delta, and 65 miles southeast of New Orleans.

Each tank is 20 feet tall and 200 feet in diameter, she said. The department initially estimated that total capacity could be one million barrels each but later reduced that to 80,000 each.

Kelly said the department still doesn't know who owns the tanks and therefore can't be sure how much oil is in them.

The Exxon Valdez spill in Alaska in 1989 involved about 250,000 barrels of oil.




Homeland Security officials were restricting access to the area, and Kelly said the state agency had notified both the Coast Guard and the Environmental Protection Agency so that they can begin clean-up.

Coast Guard officials in St. Louis said they were looking into the report but that their priority was search and rescue in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.


Louisiana DEQ
The two leaking oil storage tanks are seen in this photo taken Thursday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The state agency said it was continuing to assess the situation from the air.

The department added that it hoped to soon have two helicopters dedicated to assessing wider areas for environmental problems.

Bush is on CNN now.  His turn to suck Satan's cock.

QuoteA Colossal Failure of Leadership
Saving people and maintaining order are the first order of government in any disaster. In New Orleans, neither has been achieved.
WEB-EXCLUSIVE COMMENTARY
By Eleanor Clift
Newsweek
Updated: 12:29 p.m. ET Sept. 2, 2005

Sept. 2, 2005 - I didn't see the movie "The Day After," which depicts the desolation and desperation in the aftermath of a nuclear attack. Staring at the images from New Orleans and the Gulf Coast is like watching that disaster movie in real time. People trying to survive, scavenging like wild animals, dead bodies stuffed in corners of the Superdome, the governor of Louisiana fighting to hold back tears.

Where is Rudy Giuliani when we need him? We've had four years since 9/11 to prepare for a crisis with mass casualties, yet we seem totally unprepared. To be sure, there are countless unsung heroes performing tasks of kindness and going out of their way to help their fellow man. But this was a moment for national leadership, and nobody rose to take charge the way Giuliani did in New York.

This has been a colossal failure of government. President Bush spent Tuesday, the day after Katrina struck, at a Medicare event in Arizona and then he made his way to a San Diego naval base for yet another anniversary tribute to the Greatest Generation. His concession to reality was adding a few words of compassion to his prepared remarks. Meanwhile, the greatest natural disaster in a century was unfolding at sickening speed with television cameras capturing footage of looting reminiscent of the days after the invasion of Iraq. Things were so bad "you almost wonder if Donald Rumsfeld is in charge," said Marshall Wittmann, an analyst with the Democratic Leadership Council.

Saving people and maintaining order are the first order of government in any disaster, and neither was achieved. The much-touted Department of Homeland Security appeared too caught up in its internal bureaucracy to perform, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) called off its rescue missions Thursday because residents trying to board boats were getting violent. The disorder and lawlessness was breathtaking to watch. At one point, the evacuation of patients from a hospital was halted because of gunfire. Bush talks about "zero tolerance" for looters, but there aren't enough police to stop them and the jails are under water. One third of the National Guard from the affected states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama are in Afghanistan and Iraq, and they're the ones trained to perform the police functions that restore civil order.

Instead of declaring a national emergency and deploying the military from all those nearby Texas bases, Bush deployed his father and President Clinton for a photo op at the White House as a prelude to a fund-raising tour. Callers to cable shows called the unfolding disaster "our tsunami" and wondered whether other countries would come to our aid the way the American government did when the tsunami hit Asia. We are the richest nation on earth with the resources, as Bush rightly said, "to take care of our business." Even so, gestures of support are welcome; NEWSWEEK has learned that the former ambassador from Sri Lanka is rallying medical doctors from his country's expatriate community to go to New Orleans to help. "I figured this is the least we could do to reciprocate for all the help we got," Ambassador Devinda Subasinghe says.

We're getting a taste of what poorer parts of the world have experienced along with a glimpse into a frightening future. Scientists say we have entered a cycle of frequent and dangerous storms. September is the peak season for hurricanes, and we're already through the letter K with Katrina.

Bush's comment that nobody thought the levees in New Orleans would break is false, and he will regret those words just as Condoleezza Rice did her comment that nobody could imagine a plane flying into a building like a missile. Local authorities and the Corps of Engineers had war-gamed hurricane scenarios and issued repeated warnings about the vulnerability of the levees. Their pleas were turned down and funding cut instead. Now the money will flow. Congressional leaders rushed back to Washington early to pass legislation to free up $10 billion for hurricane relief, a mere down payment on what it will cost to rebuild the stricken areas.

Congress had been planning to eliminate the estate tax, draining billions from a federal budget already reeling under the costs of a war. Marshall Wittmann, who used to advise John McCain, predicts that Bush's tax-cutting days are over. "We've been living in la-la land," he says. "This is a moment of sobriety when business as usual can't continue."

[/b]

I love how everybody plays monday morning quarterback in these situations farging iceholes.  I have no problem with the people there being angry but all the people on the outside that run their mouths are worthless pieces of shtein.  No one anticipated this type of problem, in fact early monday they were saying that NO had been spared.  Then all hell broke lose.  This is an unprecedented disaster in this country. 

Articles like that piece of crap totally miss the point.  They act like it is so simple just take them food.  Well how do they get it there if the roads are not able to be driven on? Not to mention the fact the National Guard took much of the supplies away before this all went down they spent two days on the road, now they have to turn back with many obstacles to overcome.  It kills me when people who write articles like that pretend that no one is trying to help.  If you are doing shtein like that you are just part of the problem.

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 02, 2005, 06:43:04 PMNo one anticipated this type of problem, in fact early monday they were saying that NO had been spared.  Then all hell broke lose.  This is an unprecedented disaster in this country. 

not true.

ecologists, scientists, city planners, FEMA, and the army corps of engineers had said this was a possibility, it's all published somewhere. but their warnings fell on deaf ears of the "it'll never happen to me." and they were either just flat out ignored, or their budgets were cut by our president (FEMA/Army COE)

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 02, 2005, 06:43:04 PM
It kills me when people who write articles like that pretend that no one is trying to help.  If you are doing shtein like that you are just part of the problem.

no one's said "no one is trying to help"...the problem has been the lack of action from the goveremnt, and the piss poor planning (homeland security (the goddamn motherfarging peice of shtein farce that it is) was created for just this kind of situation. and now it's 5 days later, and only NOW are there some signs of relief.

No one saw this type of devatation coming.  Sure, there were predictions of "worst case scenarios" but even Clinton was on TV yesterday saying this could not have been predicted.  The series of events that happened could not have been planned for, and the arm-chair quarterbacking needs to stop.  Its not helping anyone right now.  There will be very intense examination of this event for years, and we'll know more then.

And they're all full of shtein.  This level of devastation was predicted years ago.  No one wants to take the blame for screwing the pooch.  Well, the good news is, their's plenty of blame to go around.

For a lighter description of events, here is Foamy the Squirrel.

http://www.illwillpress.com/kat.html

The problem isn't "no one saw it coming" (which is bullshtein) it's that they had NO planning as a just in case. The problem is when the worst case scenario happened, everything broke down from the local government on up and everyone seems completely inept as it took 5 days to get aid into these areas. Roads might have been blocked, but it's like this country doesn't have a wealth of HUMVEEs that can roll over large trees - yes, they can do that - or helicopters to do repeated air drops. It's the fact that there seemed to be no urgency to getting aid to the entire gulf coast region (not just NO) or to New Orleans while people died in the streets or were left without help or direction because the folks in charge had no idea themselves what to do.

But there are predictions of this shtein all the time.  There are estiamtes that millions could die in a Southern Cali earthquake...where is the funding and training for that?  A tsunami could hit Seattle, Mt. St. Helens could blow again, any number of the Hawaiian volcanoes could go again, another quake could hit Alaska killing thousands.

The point is, its impossible to prepare for every scenario, and the people out there insinuating this could have been prevented are idiots.

This is one fault of our government. It doesn't take millions of dollars and some massive bill to make a disaster plan. All you need is to determine some courses of action and assess what is and isn't possible given the resources that you have. The big issue is that it's becoming clear that even after 9/11 there's no contingency plans should some catastrophy happen in this country (or any other really). That's not acceptable. They don't need to train and practice for every conceivable disaster that may or may not happen, but apparently it's too much to ask that they have some sort of plan-of-action.

It shouldn't take 5 days to truck food to places. It just shouldn't, not for this country that can move a division (about 10,000-15,000 men plus support personnel) of troops around the globe in 2 days. There's no excusing that, and that's what's got people pissed off.

Quote from: Butchers Bill on September 02, 2005, 07:44:58 PM
But there are predictions of this shtein all the time. There are estiamtes that millions could die in a Southern Cali earthquake...where is the funding and training for that? A tsunami could hit Seattle, Mt. St. Helens could blow again, any number of the Hawaiian volcanoes could go again, another quake could hit Alaska killing thousands.

The point is, its impossible to prepare for every scenario, and the people out there insinuating this could have been prevented are idiots.

Yep.  And you know that if the gov't started spending millions and millions of dollars on "natural distaster emergency kits" then the American people would throw a hissy fit because they're tax dollars shouldn't be used for something that "might" happen. 

Now I'm not disputing that this situation couldn't be handled better.  Of course it could.  But the bottom line is that when something like this happens, we are never going to be 100% prepared to deal with the outcome.  And yes, it sucks for the people stranded down there right now and I don't blame them at all for bitching about still being stuck down there.  To ask them to be a little more patient is, quite frankly, a tall order.  Of course, they don't have much of a choice either so it would be nice if they just sat quietly and waited it out but that's simply not realistic. 

However, I'm pretty farging sick of hearing about the rest of the country bitching about the rescue efforts taking place.  I'm sick of hearing people bitch about how poorly the situation is being handled.  If you're not part of the solution then you're only part of the problem.  So instead of bitching and complaining about the way the government is or isn't handling things then how about getting off your ass and go lend a farging hand. 

I heard it today in the grocery store.......2 (insanely large) women infront of me in the checkout line were takling about it and completely ripping the relief efforts.  Of course, they both had their carts over flowing with an abundance of food that's only going to make them bigger and they're just standing there ranting and raving.  "Oh, they should have been more prepared for this."  "Oh they should be moving faster." "There's people down there without any food or water, blah blah blah."  And after listening to this for about 5 minutes I interrupted them and asked them what they were doing to help.  Actually, I asked them if they were sending some of their food down there to feed the hungry people and they both looked at me like a I was moron.  I should have known better than to try and take a ho-ho out of their mouths.  Farging pigs. 

[/rant off]

so now bitching about people bitching is ok.....

just wanted to make sure I got it right.   8)

Quote from: MURP on September 02, 2005, 08:23:23 PM
so now bitching about people bitching is ok.....

just wanted to make sure I got it right. 8)

:-D  Point taken.

It's just that I, myself, am not in a position to actually go volunteer with the relief effort.  700 Marines were sent down today to help out and it was strictly on a voluntary basis.  unfortunately for me, recruiting duty has me absolutely stuck where I'm at.  I know because I volunteered to go down there and was promptly (and understandably) denied.  So the next best thing I could do was make a cash donation to the Red Cross. 

But it just irritated the living hell out of me today to hear 2 people bitch and moan about everything going on and yet they aren't doing anything at all to help out.  I asked them if they'd done anything like make a donation or something and they both just said "Not yet."  Yeah, like they're going to.  I'm sure they were going to go right after they left the grocery store but then realized they had to get their ice cream home before it melted.  ::)

I'd like to re-iterate now...that my mom rules. She wanted to do something about it and she is. Had her first training session with the Red Cross today.  :yay

Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 02, 2005, 08:30:14 PM
But it just irritated the living hell out of me today to hear 2 people bitch and moan about everything going on and yet they aren't doing anything at all to help out.  I asked them if they'd done anything like make a donation or something and they both just said "Not yet."  Yeah, like they're going to.  I'm sure they were going to go right after they left the grocery store but then realized they had to get their ice cream home before it melted.  ::)

Given that situation I can certainly understand your frustration in that situation. I've been calling the volunteer number here in San Antionio (since we're getting people) all day and can't even get through. I need to know where I need to go or who I need to talk to, to sign up and keep getting a busy signal. :-\ It's frustrating.

I will say, I'm tired of these 2 minute sound bites on TV where they ask people about what went wrong/ was the response enough but rather than having discussions about it they get these sound bites and move on. Every channel does that and it's infuriating. If they're going to bring these people on to talk about the stuff, let them talk. Meh...

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 08:34:25 PM
I'd like to re-iterate now...that my mom rules. She wanted to do something about it and she is. Had her first training session with the Red Cross today. :yay

I read that earlier today when I was at work but didn't get a chance to comment on it.  That's awesome.  :yay

She is taller than you, right?  Because I'd hate for other rescue workers to mistake her for a lost kid and throw her in a helicopter and ship her off to Texas.  ;)

We're the same height.  :paranoid

Poor woman. Shipped to Texas when all she wanted to do was hang around in human waste.

Whoa... we don't want her. :paranoid

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 08:50:34 PM
Whoa... we don't want her. :paranoid

:(

If she does show up I'll buy her a breakfast taco. :)




Anyone know what a breakfast taco is?

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 08:57:36 PM
Anyone know what a breakfast taco is?

For me, it's usually the leftovers from my 2am trip to taco bell the night before.   

Used to have breakfast burritos when I lived in California. It was filled with eggs, bacon, potatoes, peppers.

Your basic heart attack in a tortilla.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 09:18:29 PM
Used to have breakfast burritos when I lived in California. It was filled with eggs, bacon, potatoes, peppers.

Your basic heart attack in a tortilla.

Yep pretty much (but they put all kinds of stuff in them here including the above). Can be pretty tasty depending on who makes them.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 09:18:29 PM
Used to have breakfast burritos when I lived in California. It was filled with eggs, bacon, potatoes, peppers.

Your basic heart attack in a tortilla.

:drool

They're so good with a hangover

I'm not a big beer drinker, but a couple bacon, egg & cheese breakfast tacos and a couple of beers... yum.

I just thought about Del Taco and how much of that stuff I ate while I was in San Diego.  I miss that place and Jack in the Box.  :drool

Del Taco was good. I liked El Pollo Loco until I got violently sick from it one day.

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM
I'm not a big beer drinker, but a couple bacon, egg & cheese breakfast tacos and a couple of beers... yum.

good point.  big drinkers rarely have beer at breakfast. 

Quote from: MURP on September 02, 2005, 09:27:22 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM
I'm not a big beer drinker, but a couple bacon, egg & cheese breakfast tacos and a couple of beers... yum.

good point. big drinkers rarely have beer at breakfast.

Yeah.  They usually have vodka.  TE's a wuss like that. 

Quote from: MURP on September 02, 2005, 09:27:22 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM
I'm not a big beer drinker, but a couple bacon, egg & cheese breakfast tacos and a couple of beers... yum.

good point. big drinkers rarely have beer at breakfast.

Breakfast tacos aren't just for breakfast, my friend. :yay

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 09:24:43 PM
I liked El Pollo Loco until I got violently sick from it one day.

You actually ate at one of those places? They're all over the place here but I refuse to eat at a place called "the crazy chicken." I assume it's not just a chicken place, what do they serve there?

Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 02, 2005, 09:29:10 PM

Quote from: MURP on September 02, 2005, 09:27:22 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM
I'm not a big beer drinker, but a couple bacon, egg & cheese breakfast tacos and a couple of beers... yum.

good point. big drinkers rarely have beer at breakfast.

Yeah. They usually have vodka. TE's a wuss like that.

Who told? :sly

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 09:33:11 PM

Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 02, 2005, 09:29:10 PM

Quote from: MURP on September 02, 2005, 09:27:22 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM
I'm not a big beer drinker, but a couple bacon, egg & cheese breakfast tacos and a couple of beers... yum.

good point. big drinkers rarely have beer at breakfast.

Yeah. They usually have vodka. TE's a wuss like that.

Who told? :sly

Joe

That dirty bastich...  >:(

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 04:40:17 PM

Quote from: Diomedes on September 02, 2005, 04:36:16 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 02, 2005, 04:12:53 PM
Red Cross donations as of 4:10pm

Total Collected:    $37,158,535
Number of Donors:    256,195

Giving what our government won't: what we can.

Only 30 minutes later:

Total Collected:     $37,409,690
Number of Donors:    258,022

Total Collected:     $45,349,985
Number of Donors:    315,492   :yay

video of Kanye West's remarks (http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Kayne-West-Bush-Black-People.mov) (takes a moment to load)

man, talk about Mike Myers being in an uncomfortable situation.   :paranoid

Yeah, it was really weird.

Quote from: MURP on September 03, 2005, 08:53:53 AM
video of Kanye West's remarks (http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Kayne-West-Bush-Black-People.mov) (takes a moment to load)

man, talk about Mike Myers being in an uncomfortable situation. :paranoid

There's a pretty powerful segment from Fox news with Sheppard Smith and Geraldo Rivera that's worth watching, also found at crooksandliars.com.  This is such a failure it's not possible to fathom.  Americans unable to help themselves.  I'm glad the race issue has been brought up, and the class issue.  They are both relevant, both obvious.

Thanks for the link Dio.

I nearly lost it watching Geraldo.

They had Jerry Rivers on last night blubbering his eyes out holding some little kid.  I didn't hear the audio but assumed he was doing his usual "blame the white man" schtick.

You're right though, Dio.  If this disaster happened in Orange County, California, there's no way this shtein would have been permitted to happen.  There would have been 100,000 relief workers on the ground a day after the disaster begun.

They're poor and they're black so no one really gives a shtein about them.  And that's sickening.

I'd like to think it's got more to do with the fact that they're poor, than that they're black.  But even if I found grounds to support that hope--and I have not--it's wouldn't be much better that people were forsaken on account of their class. 

I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do?  :'( :'(

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AMwhat else can we do?

Shoot a politician in the face.  Drop a truck on a CEO.  Strangle an anchorman.

There's three good, constructive actions you can take.  Now get to work.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 03, 2005, 09:22:10 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AMwhat else can we LEGALLY do?

Shoot a politician in the face.  Drop a truck on a CEO.  Strangle an anchorman.

There's three good, constructive actions you can take.  Now get to work.

I'd like to think that too, bro.  But if we're honest with ourselves, I think we have to admit that race plays just as big a part in this as anything else.

On the bright side, though, there's a monumental groundswell happening down here with respect to helping those folks.  You see it everywhere - people just itching to help in any way they can.  Churches, civic groups, white, black... it doesn't matter - they just want to pitch in and do something.

That makes me feel a little better about the situation.

PS: They had a donation drive at the bar last night.  Whatever donations they collected were matched dollar for dollar by the owners.  They were up over $1,000 when I left which means at least $2K will go directly and immediately to the Red Cross.  That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I was listening to the radio yesterday and there was a guy from the military who just got back from his second stint in Iraq.

He said it took this disaster to make him realize what a joke them being over there really is. He said he'd talked to friends that are still over there this week and they are all wanting to come back so badly and can't. People FROM that area and people not from that area. All of them said that helping the hurricane victims trumps all and the fact that they aren't leaving there to come help pisses them off big time.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:22:43 AM

Quote from: Diomedes on September 03, 2005, 09:22:10 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AMwhat else can we LEGALLY do?

Shoot a politician in the face. Drop a truck on a CEO. Strangle an anchorman.

There's three good, constructive actions you can take. Now get to work.

No commitment or determination to make a difference.  Such a shame.

 :-D

Quote from: PhillyPhreak54 on September 02, 2005, 09:33:37 AM
Did you guys heard the mayor of NO interview on CNN?

He called in to a radio station and gave a great interview. He blasted the feds, blasted Bush and was basically begging for help. Him and the radio host started crying at the end of the call and he had to hang up because of his emotions.

If any of you can find a link to it, check it out, Powerful stuff.

Is it just me, or does this guy strike anyone else as an idiot? He seems to be very unaware of exact details and is just lambasting the relief effort from a personal viewpoint. Railing against Bush and Corps. of Engineers, but complimenting one "John Wayne" guy who Bush sent?

Just seems weird. I mean, it's not like NO would elect a really intelligent mayor anyway. Huey P. Long was the last great LA politician.[/sarcasm]

Quote from: Wingspan on September 02, 2005, 07:17:54 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 02, 2005, 06:43:04 PMNo one anticipated this type of problem, in fact early monday they were saying that NO had been spared.  Then all hell broke lose.  This is an unprecedented disaster in this country.

not true.

ecologists, scientists, city planners, FEMA, and the army corps of engineers had said this was a possibility, it's all published somewhere. but their warnings fell on deaf ears of the "it'll never happen to me." and they were either just flat out ignored, or their budgets were cut by our president (FEMA/Army COE)

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 02, 2005, 06:43:04 PM
It kills me when people who write articles like that pretend that no one is trying to help.  If you are doing shtein like that you are just part of the problem.

no one's said "no one is trying to help"...the problem has been the lack of action from the goveremnt, and the piss poor planning (homeland security (the goddamn motherfarging peice of shtein farce that it is) was created for just this kind of situation. and now it's 5 days later, and only NOW are there some signs of relief.

What I meant was that after the hurricane no one anticipated this problem, you are right it was predicted before.  After the hurricane hit they initially thought they were going to be ok.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do?  :'( :'(

What a crock of shtein, there is a lot you can do you can volunteer to go help. 

No you can't go help.  They don't want you there.  They don't want any more people there screwing things up unless you are law enforcement or fire department or military.  That's really it.  They want you to give money. 

The only thing you can do is volunteer if you live in one of the areas where they have moved people, like Texas or Oklahoma. 

Quote from: MURP on September 03, 2005, 08:53:53 AM
video of Kanye West's remarks (http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Kayne-West-Bush-Black-People.mov) (takes a moment to load)

man, talk about Mike Myers being in an uncomfortable situation.   :paranoid

Kanye West is an idiot.  It's typical that he groups himself into those poor people in New Orleans.  Dumb rapper shootin his mouth off about shtein he has no clue about.  Look at Chris Tucker, did you see him runnin his mouth?  No!

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 10:40:09 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do? :'( :'(

What a crock of shtein, there is a lot you can do you can volunteer to go help.

That's completely uncalled for. They don't even want people in the gulf states. They want money! People that bring material items for the Red Cross in places are being turned away because they can't do anything with the stuff. Why don't you get a clue before you go spouting your nonsense.

I'm in Texas and I've been trying to volunteer for two days and I can't even get through on the number they told us to call to find out what I need to do, but I'm going to keep trying. In the mean time I'm gathering shirts, towels and blankets to send to a friend in Baton Rouge that's housing people and can distribute the rest to people that are out there begging.

It's real nice of you to lambast, PG, though. When do you leave for the gulf again?

Amen Brotha!! 

Texas Eagle...where do you live at?  Are you in San Antonio?  Let me see if i can get a contact person for you through my PD and maybe you'll be able to get through quicker. 

Yeah, I'm in San Antonio. The news station gave a local 211 number that keeps giving a message that it can't connect and they have a number for cells that I also tried (227-4357) and that also won't connect. I tried to call the TV station a bit ago but there's no one there on the weekends. ::)

But if you can help me out with a number I'd greatly appreciate it. I don't even know who else to call. I've even tried calling the Red Cross to see if they could provide a local number or organization to call and their line is always busy.

Deion calls on pro athletes for support (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2150006) along with Ed Reed, Alan Ricard and Warrick Dunn.



We've all got our own opinions on Prime Time but regardless of what you think of him, he, Reed, Ricard and Dunn are doing a good thing here.  :yay

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 03, 2005, 10:05:50 AM
Is it just me, or does this guy strike anyone else as an idiot?

Not me.  I appreciate the guy more than any of these other officials.  "Progress is on the march," is about all they can muster.  Scumbags.  I wish I the armed looters would focus their efforts on shooting politicians.  Really, I do.  Let them suffer for a change.

PG, i was watching Geraldo last night also.  It was really sad and it made me get almost as mad as he sounded.  I left it on FOX News the rest of the night.

TE, i'm workin on a number for ya man.  I'm gettin the run around from some of our brass.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 03, 2005, 01:25:03 PMI left it on FOX News the rest of the night.

That's why they pay him the big bucks.  I said somehting about it earlier, but so what:  Anyone know anything about advertising rates for news stations during times like this?  I'd like to know how much the rates have gone up, who the big advertisers are, which ads have been pulled because a higher rate could be gotten out of someone else, etc.?  Or is that not how it works?  Maybe no matter what, these ads were sold weeks or months ago and the advertisers just get lucky to have like 20,000% more "impressions" than they could normally have expected? 

Who is getting rich off this and how?  Anyone else notice that Halliburton got a big contract right off the bat to help clean up military bases affected? 

It's definitely something i thought about after you mentioned it before.  Do people just sit there in shock after watching that stuff or do they pay attention to their tv?  Me personally, whenever one news channel gives me a commercial, i flip to CNN or MSNBC.  It's like you need to constantly see what is going on.

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 10:38:53 AM
What I meant was that after the hurricane no one anticipated this problem, you are right it was predicted before.  After the hurricane hit they initially thought they were going to be ok.

sorry, dont buy that. it was a mere couple of hours between the storm passing. so there was help supposedly on the way to make it there. the storm cleared the area at about what, 8 or 9 am?  and i dont know for certian, but the levee's broke about 5 or 6 hours later?

the "help" may have turned back, but how does it take 4 days to make up for 5 hours of "whew, they made it"?

the governments on all levels screwed the pooch on this one. inept on all levels, local, state, and federal have shown us just how incapable they are of doing anything of real importance. they might as well go back to their meetings and bitch about union contracts, and tax breaks...

honestly...NOTHING has been accomplished other than some good PR on the security and response in this country. 9/11 or another natural disaster could happen again monday morning, and it would be nothing more than the same as we have seen today. a bunch of talking heads completely contradicting each other, the left hand not knowing what the right is doing. while the people in the line of fire are frigging dying on their rooftops waiting for help while the suits go on TV and kiss a homeless girl making sure to angle the camera's so that nothing "too bad" is shown on television.  ::)

My sister works in TV and I believe the commercial slots are booked and paid for well in advance. I'm sure that ads can (and do) get pulled if companies know the right folks to pull the right strings, but I don't think it's an easy thing to do. I think it takes a lot of pressure to change a commercial package.

Anyway, I'm sure money's being made somewhere on this, it'd be hard to imagine there isn't.



There's still poeple stuck in flood water down there. That's unbelievable. I know there's folks there helping finally but 6 days later and people are still in flooded houses. It's unreal that this is happening in America.

There was a piece on earlier, it was on CNN or MSNBC, where the news guy was saying, 'we can get supplies and food, why can't these people?' and went to find out why they could get food and the people there could not... and you know what? He didn't get any answers. He was driving around on the roads and talking to National Guard people, and didn't get a single concrete answer as to why they couldn't bring in food & water.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 03, 2005, 01:25:03 PM
TE, i'm workin on a number for ya man. I'm gettin the run around from some of our brass.

I appreciate the effort. :yay

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 03, 2005, 12:11:12 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 10:40:09 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do? :'( :'(

What a crock of shtein, there is a lot you can do you can volunteer to go help.

That's completely uncalled for. They don't even want people in the gulf states. They want money! People that bring material items for the Red Cross in places are being turned away because they can't do anything with the stuff. Why don't you get a clue before you go spouting your nonsense.

I'm in Texas and I've been trying to volunteer for two days and I can't even get through on the number they told us to call to find out what I need to do, but I'm going to keep trying. In the mean time I'm gathering shirts, towels and blankets to send to a friend in Baton Rouge that's housing people and can distribute the rest to people that are out there begging.

It's real nice of you to lambast, PG, though. When do you leave for the gulf again?

I am not lambasting anybody, you can volunteer to go help in your area, getting supplies together to send down or money, whatever.  Now, your the one lambasting me telling me to get a clue.  I have donated money and as far as volunteering I am doing that right now I am currently in the process of going into the U.S. Army(provided my wavers go through), so don't lecture me.  It just bothers me and (this is not directed at anybody particular) that people are bitching and moaning right now, let me ask you what good that does in a situation like this?

As far as them not letting people in that is news to me, up here there are daily reports of local volunteer groups going down and helping out.

Quote from: Wingspan on September 03, 2005, 01:45:52 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 10:38:53 AM
What I meant was that after the hurricane no one anticipated this problem, you are right it was predicted before.  After the hurricane hit they initially thought they were going to be ok.

sorry, dont buy that. it was a mere couple of hours between the storm passing. so there was help supposedly on the way to make it there. the storm cleared the area at about what, 8 or 9 am?  and i dont know for certian, but the levee's broke about 5 or 6 hours later?

the "help" may have turned back, but how does it take 4 days to make up for 5 hours of "whew, they made it"?

the governments on all levels screwed the pooch on this one. inept on all levels, local, state, and federal have shown us just how incapable they are of doing anything of real importance. they might as well go back to their meetings and bitch about union contracts, and tax breaks...

honestly...NOTHING has been accomplished other than some good PR on the security and response in this country. 9/11 or another natural disaster could happen again monday morning, and it would be nothing more than the same as we have seen today. a bunch of talking heads completely contradicting each other, the left hand not knowing what the right is doing. while the people in the line of fire are frigging dying on their rooftops waiting for help while the suits go on TV and kiss a homeless girl making sure to angle the camera's so that nothing "too bad" is shown on television.  ::)

All that I am saying is it is easy for people to criticize now after the fact, this is an extremely difficult situation.  Rather than playing the blame game (which certainly can and should be played at a later date) why not just see what we can do to rectify the situation now.

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 03:06:26 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 03, 2005, 12:11:12 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 10:40:09 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do? :'( :'(

What a crock of shtein, there is a lot you can do you can volunteer to go help.

That's completely uncalled for. They don't even want people in the gulf states. They want money! People that bring material items for the Red Cross in places are being turned away because they can't do anything with the stuff. Why don't you get a clue before you go spouting your nonsense.

I'm in Texas and I've been trying to volunteer for two days and I can't even get through on the number they told us to call to find out what I need to do, but I'm going to keep trying. In the mean time I'm gathering shirts, towels and blankets to send to a friend in Baton Rouge that's housing people and can distribute the rest to people that are out there begging.

It's real nice of you to lambast, PG, though. When do you leave for the gulf again?

I am not lambasting anybody, you can volunteer to go help in your area, getting supplies together to send down or money, whatever.  Now, your the one lambasting me telling me to get a clue.  I have donated money and as far as volunteering I am doing that right now I am currently in the process of going into the U.S. Army(provided my wavers go through), so don't lecture me.  It just bothers me and (this is not directed at anybody particular) that people are bitching and moaning right now, let me ask you what good that does in a situation like this?

As far as them not letting people in that is news to me, up here there are daily reports of local volunteer groups going down and helping out.

Yeah, firefighter groups and such.  John Q. Public doesn't belong down there unless he's trained in Police, Fire, EMS or the like. 

And that is just my opinion.  The only reason i say that is because basically people down there now are going to be rescuing citizens.  Unless they have some type of training in that, then they would just be getting in the way mostly.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 03, 2005, 03:21:00 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 03:06:26 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 03, 2005, 12:11:12 PM

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 10:40:09 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do? :'( :'(

What a crock of shtein, there is a lot you can do you can volunteer to go help.

That's completely uncalled for. They don't even want people in the gulf states. They want money! People that bring material items for the Red Cross in places are being turned away because they can't do anything with the stuff. Why don't you get a clue before you go spouting your nonsense.

I'm in Texas and I've been trying to volunteer for two days and I can't even get through on the number they told us to call to find out what I need to do, but I'm going to keep trying. In the mean time I'm gathering shirts, towels and blankets to send to a friend in Baton Rouge that's housing people and can distribute the rest to people that are out there begging.

It's real nice of you to lambast, PG, though. When do you leave for the gulf again?

I am not lambasting anybody, you can volunteer to go help in your area, getting supplies together to send down or money, whatever.  Now, your the one lambasting me telling me to get a clue.  I have donated money and as far as volunteering I am doing that right now I am currently in the process of going into the U.S. Army(provided my wavers go through), so don't lecture me.  It just bothers me and (this is not directed at anybody particular) that people are bitching and moaning right now, let me ask you what good that does in a situation like this?

As far as them not letting people in that is news to me, up here there are daily reports of local volunteer groups going down and helping out.

Yeah, firefighter groups and such.  John Q. Public doesn't belong down there unless he's trained in Police, Fire, EMS or the like. 

And that is just my opinion.  The only reason i say that is because basically people down there now are going to be rescuing citizens.  Unless they have some type of training in that, then they would just be getting in the way mostly.

Makes sense.

(http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10110/mURI_temp_b7afaef7.jpg)

Quote from: Diomedes on September 03, 2005, 03:32:08 PM
(http://news.globalfreepress.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10110/mURI_temp_b7afaef7.jpg)

:-D :-D :-D

Tell me how this is acceptable:

link (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050903%2F0603470456.htm&sc=1110&photoid=20050902LADP152)

QuoteNEW ORLEANS (AP) - National Guardsmen helped evacuate the mass of storm refugees from the Superdome on Friday, where thousands were stuck in knee-deep trash and blacked-out, putrid bathrooms.

``This was the worst night of my life,'' one mother said.

At one point, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses rolled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line - much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the stinking Superdome since Sunday.

``How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?'' exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

The 700 had been trapped in the hotel, next to the Superdome, but conditions were considerably cleaner, even without running water, than the unsanitary crush inside the dome. The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm. Every pane of glass on the riverside wall was blown out.

Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

National Guard Capt. John Pollard called the decision to move the Hyatt people to the head of the line ``very poor.''

Let me quess.  The folks in the hotel also just happened to be a lot richer and whiter than the folks at the Superdome?  And anyone who would suggest that evacuating the wealthy whities was as anything other than coincidence is an un-American troublemaker, a voice of destructian amidst a remarkable recovery effort, blah, blah, blah.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 03, 2005, 04:25:47 PM
Tell me how this is acceptable:

link (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050903%2F0603470456.htm&sc=1110&photoid=20050902LADP152)

QuoteNEW ORLEANS (AP) - National Guardsmen helped evacuate the mass of storm refugees from the Superdome on Friday, where thousands were stuck in knee-deep trash and blacked-out, putrid bathrooms.

``This was the worst night of my life,'' one mother said.

At one point, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses rolled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line - much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the stinking Superdome since Sunday.

``How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?'' exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

The 700 had been trapped in the hotel, next to the Superdome, but conditions were considerably cleaner, even without running water, than the unsanitary crush inside the dome. The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm. Every pane of glass on the riverside wall was blown out.

Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

National Guard Capt. John Pollard called the decision to move the Hyatt people to the head of the line ``very poor.''

Let me quess.  The folks in the hotel also just happened to be a lot richer and whiter than the folks at the Superdome?  And anyone who would suggest that evacuating the wealthy whities was as anything other than coincidence is an un-American troublemaker, a voice of destructian amidst a remarkable recovery effort, blah, blah, blah.

If this is true it is totally unacceptable.

Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

So they needed to clear out a building so they could do some real planning. They picked the one across the street from City Hall. Maybe they should have just thrown those people into the Superdome and told them to wait in line. I mean, there's no reason to move the people really far if you just need them out of the way. Right?

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 03, 2005, 03:06:26 PM

I am not lambasting anybody, you can volunteer to go help in your area, getting supplies together to send down or money, whatever. Now, your the one lambasting me telling me to get a clue. I have donated money and as far as volunteering I am doing that right now I am currently in the process of going into the U.S. Army(provided my wavers go through), so don't lecture me. It just bothers me and (this is not directed at anybody particular) that people are bitching and moaning right now, let me ask you what good that does in a situation like this?

As far as them not letting people in that is news to me, up here there are daily reports of local volunteer groups going down and helping out.

I wasn't lecturing you, I was saying what you said was uncalled for. I don't know PG's situation, she might not have a job that even allows her to take the time off to volunteer. Anyway, they don't want people just showing up. That's why volunteers have to go through training. Right now they need people out of the area, not heading in.

I have no idea what's up in Philly in regards to what type of volunteers they need/ can use, but most of the country can only donate money unless they have medical training of some sort. They set up a toll free number (1 866-528-6334) that's only available for medical folks to call and volunteer. Really, if you can't help them in saving lives, they don't want you down there right now. That will change once they get things settled, but for now they only want funds.

Sorry if I seemed snippy before but your post came across really out of line.

Quote from: General_Failure on September 03, 2005, 05:20:47 PM
Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

So they needed to clear out a building so they could do some real planning. They picked the one across the street from City Hall. Maybe they should have just thrown those people into the Superdome and told them to wait in line. I mean, there's no reason to move the people really far if you just need them out of the way. Right?

I think the issue that will come up is not that they had to clear out of the hotel, but that those 700 people got to jump ahead of the masses that were stuck either outside or crammed into the Superdome for days and get on the buses first. There's no excuse for that. It brings up the thought, what makes those people so special that their lives are worth more than the other people that were also waiting in less desirable conditions. Stories like this are why people bring up race and class in regards to what's been happening.

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 03, 2005, 05:36:36 PM

Quote from: General_Failure on September 03, 2005, 05:20:47 PM
Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

So they needed to clear out a building so they could do some real planning. They picked the one across the street from City Hall. Maybe they should have just thrown those people into the Superdome and told them to wait in line. I mean, there's no reason to move the people really far if you just need them out of the way. Right?

I think the issue that will come up is not that they had to clear out of the hotel, but that those 700 people got to jump ahead of the masses that were stuck either outside or crammed into the Superdome for days and get on the buses first. There's no excuse for that.

That's not the issue that should come up here. There's no point in putting those people in the Superdome. You need a building cleared so you can use it, you evacuate the people in it while you're at it. It's more sensationalism to say they got pushed to the head of the line because they're rich and probably white.

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 03, 2005, 05:36:36 PM

Quote from: General_Failure on September 03, 2005, 05:20:47 PM
Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.

So they needed to clear out a building so they could do some real planning. They picked the one across the street from City Hall. Maybe they should have just thrown those people into the Superdome and told them to wait in line. I mean, there's no reason to move the people really far if you just need them out of the way. Right?

I think the issue that will come up is not that they had to clear out of the hotel, but that those 700 people got to jump ahead of the masses that were stuck either outside or crammed into the Superdome for days and get on the buses first. There's no excuse for that. It brings up the thought, what makes those people so special that their lives are worth more than the other people that were also waiting in less desirable conditions. Stories like this are why people bring up race and class in regards to what's been happening.

Well, that is my fault and I didn't intend it that way.

Them needing the building and kicking the people out of it and them moving the people from the building to the front of the bus lines are two different issues. If they need the hotel, they need the hotel and those people need to get the farg out of it. No problem.

Them getting immediately evacuated is a different issue though. There's no legitimate reason why they couldn't wait with the other folks for their turn to get bused out. Everyone's getting evacuated, 'why'd they get to go first?' is the question being brought up. Just because they were in the hotel isn't a justifiable reason (IMO) for getting to jump to the front of the line.

Whether they're white isn't a concern of mine. I haven't even seen a report that said they were "rich and white" or even mostly white. They could be Cuban for all I know...

The rich and white part was Dio's spin.

I'm still of the opinion that there was no reason to put those people in the Superdome. Who's to say they don't start getting violent if they're moved out of their comfy little glassless hotel and thrown into the piss pond.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do?  :'( :'(

I'm so farging sick of hearing this. In a different world, this catastrophe could have been avoided beforehand. Yes, the government, or some other group, would have already fortified New Orleans/Mississippi/all other victim states against a hurricane of this caliber. Well, guess what? In a perfect world, the streets are made of gold, worries don't exist, and the Wicked Witch is dead. shtein happens, and we deal with it.

This is what I'd like to see: I'd like to see all you iceholes that are placing blame on FEMA, on the Government, on anyone, you don't care who, just to bitch and place blame, farging stand up, get out of your farging air conditioned homes, away from your "I can do whatever I want, eat what I want, and bitch about whatever I want" lives, and actually put forth an effort towards what you "believe in".

I am so farging tired of listening to people whine and moan and complain about this and that, about how our people shouldn't be over in Iraq or Afghanistan, how the government didn't prepare for the Hurricane. Well, you know what? Join the Military, move up in the ranks, and go ahead and change it. Go out with the National Guard, the Marines, the volunteers. Go to the hurricane ravaged areas. Save people. You're doing nothing by bitching about what should have been done.

Realize what is being done, iceholes, and appreciate it. You'll never see anything greater.

You want to know what you can do? Well, take these people for example. http://www.meridianstar.com/articles/2005/09/03/local_news/news_stories/a1-volunteers.txt. Now, go do something and make a difference or shut the farg up.

Yeah, and I'm awful sick and tired of idiots like you apologising for the rich, wealthy, powerful leaders, while preaching that critics shouldn't speak their mind about the total, lethal failure for which these dirtbags are responsible.  So blow me, Nationlist Pig.  Better yet, blow Bush and Chertoff.  Their "Progress is on the March" spunk should suit your tastes just fine.

The Bush administration screwed this one up.  No doubt about it.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 11:03:47 AM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 03, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
I watch this and I just can't believe this is our own country. I can't believe that the government could let our own farging citizens sit there for FIVE days before sending food and rescue. I tossed and turned AGAIN last night over this. I just feel helpless, because other than dontating money, what else can we do?  :'( :'(

I'm so farging sick of hearing this. In a different world, this catastrophe could have been avoided beforehand. Yes, the government, or some other group, would have already fortified New Orleans/Mississippi/all other victim states against a hurricane of this caliber. Well, guess what? In a perfect world, the streets are made of gold, worries don't exist, and the Wicked Witch is dead. shtein happens, and we deal with it.

This is what I'd like to see: I'd like to see all you iceholes that are placing blame on FEMA, on the Government, on anyone, you don't care who, just to bitch and place blame, farging stand up, get out of your farging air conditioned homes, away from your "I can do whatever I want, eat what I want, and bitch about whatever I want" lives, and actually put forth an effort towards what you "believe in".

I am so farging tired of listening to people whine and moan and complain about this and that, about how our people shouldn't be over in Iraq or Afghanistan, how the government didn't prepare for the Hurricane. Well, you know what? Join the Military, move up in the ranks, and go ahead and change it. Go out with the National Guard, the Marines, the volunteers. Go to the hurricane ravaged areas. Save people. You're doing nothing by bitching about what should have been done.

Realize what is being done, iceholes, and appreciate it. You'll never see anything greater.

You want to know what you can do? Well, take these people for example. http://www.meridianstar.com/articles/2005/09/03/local_news/news_stories/a1-volunteers.txt. Now, go do something and make a difference or shut the farg up.

Either someone didn't get laid last night or they just got their panties in a bunch.  Who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up?

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 11:21:47 AM
Yeah, and I'm awful sick and tired of idiots like you apologising for the rich, wealthy, powerful leaders, while preaching that critics shouldn't speak their mind about the total, lethal failure for which these dirtbags are responsible.  So blow me, Nationlist Pig.  Better yet, blow Bush and Chertoff.  Their "Progress is on the March" spunk should suit your tastes just fine.

What would have you done? Seriously, what the farg would you have done?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/

Quote"Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said that New Orleans could expect a complete loss of electricity and water services as well as intense flooding.

Federal Emergency Management Agency teams and other emergency teams were in place to move in as soon as the storm was over, FEMA Undersecretary Michael Brown said.
President Bush announced Sunday that he had issued disaster declarations for Louisiana, Mississippi and parts of southern Florida.

Sunday was before the storm hit so Bush was offering federal aid and assistance before the storm hit. FEMA teams were in place and ready to go. Coast Guard was on scene the next day among others. Seems like they had some planning done already.

QuoteJesse St. Amant, the emergency management chief for Louisiana's southernmost Plaquemines Parish, said nearly 95 percent of the parish's 27,000-plus residents had fled by Sunday afternoon. Those who remained were being told that they are "gambling with their own lives."

"I think they just don't believe something of this nature can ever happen in their lifespan, and I think they're going to be wrong," he said.

If you stay, you might die. They told people this. From the beginning. Hmmm...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050828...rricane_katrina

QuoteAs many as 100,000 inner-city residents didn't have the means to leave, and an untold number of tourists were stranded by the closing of the airport. The city arranged buses to take people to 10 last-resort shelters, including the Superdome.

Where's the heat for your boy, Mayor Ray Nagin? Why weren't these busses used? (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015)

QuoteThe 70,000-seat Superdome, the home of football's Saints, opened at daybreak Sunday, giving first priority to frail, elderly people on walkers, some with oxygen tanks. They were told to bring enough food, water and medicine to last up to five days.

WHY DID THEY NEED FOOD, WATER, MEDS, ETC ETC? Because they didn't follow instructions. They should have had their own. When people don't follow instructions, people can die. But, this is America and we don't force people to evacuate.

It seems to me that there was enough help and information put out there but idiots chose not to listen.

FEMA chief's principal qualification for gettitng the job: Judge and stewards commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association.   He got his job because he is a loyal friend to Bush and Co.  Now people are dead because of it.  It can't be stated more plainly: Bush put an unqualified man in a life or death position based on politics.

Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509040342sep04,1,474800.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)

QuoteFor the decade prior to joining the Federal Emergency Management Agency, , Director Michael Brown was commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association, a Colorado-based group that organizes breeders and horse shows. Then he was asked to resign.

"He didn't follow the instructions he was given," then-IAHA President William Pennington confirmed Saturday.

Less than five years after that dismissal, Brown, 50, finds himself heading the federal agency charged with responding to one of the nation's worst disasters.

Brown has been one of the leading public faces of a federal response sharply criticized as too little and too late. His statements and sometimes even his demeanor under the camera's glare have been questioned by critics--and often divergent from the grief-stricken reality on the ground.

During one of his first televised news conferences Wednesday, when violence and chaos were spreading in New Orleans and bodies were beginning to be seen floating in the water, Brown laughed and joked as he took reporters' questions.

At points last week, he described security in New Orleans as "pretty darn good." He said he had received no reports of "unrest," nor any information about uncollected corpses. And on Thursday night, he told CNN the agency had just learned that thousands of people had huddled at the New Orleans Convention Center, even though the city had directed them to go there, and journalists had been reporting their plight.

Boston Herald (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857)

QuoteThe federal official in charge of the bungled New Orleans rescue was fired from his last private-sector job overseeing horse shows.
And before joining the Federal Emergency Management Agency as a deputy director in 2001, GOP activist Mike Brown had no significant experience that would have qualified him for the position.
The Oklahoman got the job through an old college friend who at the time was heading up FEMA.

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 04, 2005, 11:58:26 AM
Either someone didn't get laid last night or they just got their panties in a bunch.  Who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up?

I'm not allowed to speak, but all the finger-pointing liberals are. Makes sense.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 12:02:50 PM
FEMA chief's principal qualification for gettitng the job: Judge and stewards commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association.   He got his job because he is a loyal friend to Bush and Co.  Now people are dead because of it.  It can't be stated more plainly: Bush put an unqualified man in a life or death position based on politics.

Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509040342sep04,1,474800.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true)

QuoteFor the decade prior to joining the Federal Emergency Management Agency, , Director Michael Brown was commissioner of the International Arabian Horse Association, a Colorado-based group that organizes breeders and horse shows. Then he was asked to resign.

"He didn't follow the instructions he was given," then-IAHA President William Pennington confirmed Saturday.

Less than five years after that dismissal, Brown, 50, finds himself heading the federal agency charged with responding to one of the nation's worst disasters.

Brown has been one of the leading public faces of a federal response sharply criticized as too little and too late. His statements and sometimes even his demeanor under the camera's glare have been questioned by critics--and often divergent from the grief-stricken reality on the ground.

During one of his first televised news conferences Wednesday, when violence and chaos were spreading in New Orleans and bodies were beginning to be seen floating in the water, Brown laughed and joked as he took reporters' questions.

At points last week, he described security in New Orleans as "pretty darn good." He said he had received no reports of "unrest," nor any information about uncollected corpses. And on Thursday night, he told CNN the agency had just learned that thousands of people had huddled at the New Orleans Convention Center, even though the city had directed them to go there, and journalists had been reporting their plight.

Boston Herald (http://business.bostonherald.com/businessNews/view.bg?articleid=100857)

QuoteThe federal official in charge of the bungled New Orleans rescue was fired from his last private-sector job overseeing horse shows.
     And before joining the Federal Emergency Management Agency as a deputy director in 2001, GOP activist Mike Brown had no significant experience that would have qualified him for the position.
     The Oklahoman got the job through an old college friend who at the time was heading up FEMA.

Once again, you just play the blame game. Why don't you offer something else, other than blame?

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050903/capt.flpc20309032117.hurricane_katrina_flpc203.jpg)

"That's not been reported to me, so I'm not going to comment. Until I actually get a report from my teams that say, "We have bodies located here or there," I'm just not going to speculate." - Michael "the Arabian Horse" Brown.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:05:47 PM

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 04, 2005, 11:58:26 AM
Either someone didn't get laid last night or they just got their panties in a bunch.  Who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up?

I'm not allowed to speak, but all the finger-pointing liberals are. Makes sense.

Noone said you couldn't talk...i'm just saying who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up.  I'm pretty sure that's exactly what i wrote too.  Yep, i see it up there in the quotes. 

Yeah, that is a dumb quote but that has nothing to do with anything.

Let me guess? This is Bush's fault. It's Bush's fault that this person refused to listen after numerous warnings and is now floating? How much more can a person do, other than say "You need to get the farg out of New Orleans/Mississipi/other states. Drop the furniture and farging leave because you will be farged." At what point, do others take the blame for their own stupid actions?

I didn't say anything about that.  I was just pointing out that it seemed like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning Mr. Grumpypants!  :(

Right now, i put a lot of blame on the idiots that refused to leave their homes.  They didn't think about their children.  They were stupid and now they are paying for it.  I still see morons on MSNBC refusing to leave their homes when people get to them.  They are just plain dumb.  They don't realize that they will get no food or water for a month or two and the water won't be going anywhere. 

(http://www.repubblica.it/speciale/2005/dossier_katrina/popup/gallery3/11.gif)

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 04, 2005, 12:15:22 PM

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:05:47 PM

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 04, 2005, 11:58:26 AM
Either someone didn't get laid last night or they just got their panties in a bunch.  Who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up?

I'm not allowed to speak, but all the finger-pointing liberals are. Makes sense.

Noone said you couldn't talk...i'm just saying who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up.  I'm pretty sure that's exactly what i wrote too.  Yep, i see it up there in the quotes. 

And who are these people to lambast Bush and everyone else? What have they done that warrants them the right to bash the government. It goes both ways.

I'd say that's a DOA.  And Big Momma on the bridge.

Diomedes, what the farg, dude?

I'm convinced if an asteroid were to smash into downtown San Francisco, you'd blame Bush for not building our own Battlestar Galactica to fight aliens and meteors.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:24:31 PMDiomedes, what the farg, dude?

Oh, don't mind me.  Go back to apologizing for the leaders.  It suits you.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/Willow1972/thenandnow6oy1os.jpg)

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:00:41 PM
Sunday was before the storm hit so Bush was offering federal aid and assistance before the storm hit. FEMA teams were in place and ready to go. Coast Guard was on scene the next day among others. Seems like they had some planning done already.

NG in place Sunday (only about a 1000 if that); hurricane passes Monday; city floods Monday; people die Monday through... well they're still dying. Food, water and aid begins to arrive Friday. Monday.... Friday. Monday... Friday. Well, there's a whole mess of days in there where the government did JACK shtein while people were dying. But you're right, let's not blame Big Brother while the people died, the government's not responsible for shtein except not taxing the rich. Doesn't Congress need to get right on top of that issue?

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:00:41 PMWHY DID THEY NEED FOOD, WATER, MEDS, ETC ETC? Because they didn't follow instructions. They should have had their own. When people don't follow instructions, people can die. But, this is America and we don't force people to evacuate.

It seems to me that there was enough help and information put out there but idiots chose not to listen.

Right, because it's really easy for poor people and invalids to go out and stock up on food, water and medicine, pile it in the cars (that they don't have) and drive out of the city leaving the few possessions that they do own. They don't live in squaler because they have no money, they're just cheap.

People like you are what's wrong with this country. Who the farg cares about anyone else as long as your SUV is running and you don't have to worry about anyone but yourself. Yeah the Bush admin has done a bang up job and God forbid anyone be upset with them. How's that war in iraq going? Oh, but we shouldn't talk about that either..."Stay the course", isn't that the party line these days or is it still  "We will persevere?"

So...ummm...anyone catch 'Real Time with Bill Maher' lastnight?  :-D

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 04, 2005, 12:59:21 PM
Right, because it's really easy for poor people and invalids to go out and stock up on food, water and medicine, pile it in the cars (that they don't have) and drive out of the city leaving the few possessions that they do own. They don't live in squaler because they have no money, they're just cheap.

They had the means to leave, they just chose not to:

QuoteLouisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

While I'm sympathetic with the folks down there, they were told to evacuate yet chose not to. If somebody tells me 'California is about to get hit by a major Earthquake, so leave' guess what? I'm on the first plane out of here.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:05:47 PM

Quote from: The Waco Kid on September 04, 2005, 11:58:26 AM
Either someone didn't get laid last night or they just got their panties in a bunch.  Who are you to tell everyone to shut the farg up?

I'm not allowed to speak, but all the finger-pointing liberals are. Makes sense.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion.

And we're perfectly entitled to mock you for it.

:-D

Seems to me that there is a rather large contingent of people here and elsewhere that are willing to blame Bush for anything and everything.  The mayor of NO and gov. of LA have just as much fault (if not more) than the Federal gov't. in this mess.  Why were the buses not used to evac people?  Why wasn't more of the LA National Guard called up (something the STATE has to do in a domestic situation)?  Why did hundreds of NO cops quit/not show up/turn in the badges?

I agree with 76ers Fan in that people are simply looking to blame at this point, and for those with a political agenda its easy for them to blame Bush.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 12:22:27 PM
And who are these people to lambast Bush and everyone else? What have they done that warrants them the right to bash the government. It goes both ways.

I dunno......pay taxes? 

I prefer action over complaining but the bottom line is that no one is above criticism, epecially politicians. 

Condi (http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/24921) was shopping for shoes while people died.  Where is meatcicle Cheney? WTF is wrong with these people?

link (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310186.ece)

QuoteRay Nagin, the Mayor of New Orleans, said that every day of delay has caused hundreds of deaths. Louisiana's junior Senator, Republican David Vitter, gave the Bush administration "an F grade" for its handling of the crisis. Senator Chuck Hagel, a leading contender for his party's nomination to succeed Mr Bush, said, "There must be some accountability."

The criticism is all the sharper because the President did nothing to alter his holiday schedule for 48 hours. Vice-President meatcicle Cheney remains on holiday in Wyoming. Condoleezza Rice, the Secretary of State, returned to Washington after being seen shopping for $7,000 shoes in Manhattan as New Orleans went under.

link (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310195.ece)

QuoteVital measures to protect New Orleans from "catastrophic" hurricane damage were scrapped by the Bush administration to pay for its wars on terror and in Iraq, despite official warnings of impending disaster.

Funding for flood prevention was slashed by 80 per cent, work on strengthening levees to protect the city was stopped for the first time in 37 years, and planning for housing stranded citizens and evacuating refugees from the Superdome were crippled. Yet the administration had been warned repeatedly of the dangers by its own officials.

In early 2001, at the start of Mr Bush's presidency, his Government's Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) warned that a hurricane hitting New Orleans would be the deadliest of the three most likely catastrophes facing America; the others were a massive San Francisco earthquake and, prophetically, a terrorist attack on New York.

Fema's then director, the Bush appointee Joe Allbaugh, said that the warning caused him "great concern". But the President emasculated the agency, subsuming it into the Department of Homeland Security set up after the 11 September 2001 attacks, which concentrated on the terrorist threat.

...

Natural and man-made defences have long been neglected. A 10-year plan to strengthen levees after a 1965 hurricane was never completed. But the skimping has worsened since President Bush's election, particularly after 11 September. Federal spending on flood control in south-east Louisiana has been cut by almost half since 2001, from $69m (£34.5m) per year to $36.5m. Funds for work at Lake Pontchartrain, the source of the flooding, have fallen by nearly two-thirds over three years, from $14.25m to $5.7m. As a result, work on New Orleans' east bank hurricane levees stopped last summer for the first time in 37 years.

The US Army Corps of Engineers, which maintains the levees, requested $27m this year for hurricane protection around the lake. President Bush tried to cut this to $3.9m, although Congress allowed $5.7m. The President also tried to cut $78m to improve drainage and prevent flooding in the city to $30m, though Congress passed $36.5m. A $14bn longer-term project to restore marshes was cut to $570m.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on September 04, 2005, 01:20:26 PM

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 04, 2005, 12:59:21 PM
Right, because it's really easy for poor people and invalids to go out and stock up on food, water and medicine, pile it in the cars (that they don't have) and drive out of the city leaving the few possessions that they do own. They don't live in squaler because they have no money, they're just cheap.

They had the means to leave, they just chose not to:

QuoteLouisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

While I'm sympathetic with the folks down there, they were told to evacuate yet chose not to. If somebody tells me 'California is about to get hit by a major Earthquake, so leave' guess what? I'm on the first plane out of here.

This goes back to the government. The ENTIRE government screwed up from Bush on down. And school buses and volunteer vehicles aren't the same thing as the poor having the means to leave. If there's no one there to get them or direct them on where to get rides on buses, then they don't have the means to leave. They're dependant on the government that failed them.

If a Cat-5 hurricane or something else was heading this way that could end my life prematurely, I'd hop in my car and hightail it out of here as well. That's not the same thing as someone that has no money and no car not leaving. If no one bothers to help those people get transportation, how it their fault? Just because they're poor? I can't support that line of reasoning as it's not logical.

Quote from: Butchers Bill on September 04, 2005, 01:32:52 PM
Seems to me that there is a rather large contingent of people here and elsewhere that are willing to blame Bush for anything and everything. The mayor of NO and gov. of LA have just as much fault (if not more) than the Federal gov't. in this mess. Why were the buses not used to evac people? Why wasn't more of the LA National Guard called up (something the STATE has to do in a domestic situation)? Why did hundreds of NO cops quit/not show up/turn in the badges?

I agree with 76ers Fan in that people are simply looking to blame at this point, and for those with a political agenda its easy for them to blame Bush.

There's no division of blame. Bush has as much fault in this as the mayor of NOLA. The entire government failed and Bush (much to the Bush supporters detriment) is the government. So yes, he's got as much blame as anyone, and the reason why he gets more is that once news came out that the situation in NOLA was getting dire (late Monday) he took another 4 days to start whipping things into action. After Monday the State Government was unable to do anything and needed federal assistance that was WAY too late in coming. But Bush supporters tend to want to ignore that and deflect the issue, usually by saying "now's not the time to place blame" even though they want to bring up Clinton's name whenever it's convenient.

Quote• On CNN TV: Dr. Phil on healing after Katrina, 9 p.m. ET

:puke

We all need some help here:
(http://www.yoru.blogger.com.br/get%20along%20gang.jpg)


Seriously:

Even as a registered Republican, I recognize here that our governmental response to Katrina was woefully inept.  Both at the state and national level, the emergency preparation and implementation of any plan was not enough to meet the needs of those poor people in Louisiana and Mississippi.

National Guardsmen should have been on full alert BEFORE the storm hit.  There was enough time, and Katrina was obviously a large storm that there was plenty of warning that this one had the potential of killing thousands and destroying much of the delta regions of Louisiana and the Gulf coast of Mississippi. They should have been patrolling the area immediately after the storm had passed- if they had been, much of the looting and violence would have been counteracted before it had a chance to begin.

On average of at least every other year, a major hurricane hits somewhere in the continental United States- and in the past two seasons, multiple hurricanes have hit.  Judging from Charley and Ivan last year, food, water and such should have been stockpiled BEFORE the season, much less before the formation of a storm such as Katrina.  In Southwest Florida, the local weather forecasters do "hurricane seminars," to help teach residents what to do in terms of preparing for an approaching storm.  Personally, I wish that there was a way to "force" people to attend one of these, as they are real eye-openers as to how powerful and destructive hurricanes, even CAT-1s, are.

Last year, when Ivan was originally forecast to hit our area as a CAT-4 or CAT-5, my family and I evacuated from the area.  It turned out that Ivan was the one storm that didn't hit us at all, and at the time I felt a little silly (we ended up visiting my sister in Long Island, and I missed three days of school).  We left about 2 days before Ivan was scheduled to hit, and Naples ended up getting very little from the storm, as it stayed well off the west coast of Florida.    After seeing Katrina, though, I would do it again in a heartbeat if that strong of a hurricane would come at us.  My house, my belongings, I can replace.  My life, my family- as long as they are safe, that's all that matters.

The key, though, is that often you have to "get out" before there is a mandatory order to do so.  Once that order goes out, any routes out of the city are going to be clogged.  We flew out of our local international airport, and it was already clogged with people leaving the area.  We, much like New Orleans, have just one major route out of the area (I-75), and a mass evacuation would simply clog the interstate for miles.  Heck, a small accident clogs our interstate system.  The evacuation really needs to take place a good 24-48 hours before you would "definitely know" that the hurricane is heading for your area.  Take any precious commodities (pictures, jewelry, etc.) and GET THE HECK OUT ASAP!

Part of this is simply stating that there needs to be a much better plan in place, basically on all sides:

1.  Residents must be MUCH BETTER EDUCATED on hurricanes, on evacuation procedures, and on planning ahead for all hurricanes.  Be prepared AHEAD of time (I must commend Florida here- they even had a sales-tax free week in June for hurricane supplies), have whatever supplies you need.  Have a list of the essentials you would take with you in the event of an evacuation, whether it be by car or by plane.  If you don't have a car and can't afford a plane, have some sort of plan to get yourself out of harms' way.

2.  Much of the strategic planning for the hurricanes must be done on the state level, both because of Constitutionality and because of practicality.  No one should know how to prepare for a hurricane better than someone in Florida, the Gulf Coast, or the Carolinas.  Have a response plan ready for the hurricane:  Before hand, and after an area is struck.  I have to give a lot of credit to Florida's governor, Jeb Bush, here:  IMO, he did a bang-up job in terms of preparedness (lots of shelters open, needed materials ready) and in terms of response, when Charley hit.  I am not necessarily a huge supporter of Gov. Bush (mainly because of his stance on educational concerns), but he led admirably in that instance.  It seems to me that the governor of Louisiana was not as well prepared for a major hurricane. 

3.  Where I fault President Bush was his failure in this instance to foresee the possible problems.  Many will say that it was not foreseeable, but as has been stated many times before, just such a catastrophe has been predicted.  I won't blame this on just Bush:  Those levees in LA and Mississippi should have been upgraded long before, whether by the Army Corps of Engineers or by a private group.  But there should be a permanent emergency response plan for natural disasters such as this:  the military/National Guard in total readiness to move in for every hurricane, and move in even if damage at first appears minimal.  Have emergency supplies ready in advance of the storm.  There was a blessed WEEK to prepare for this storm hitting, and even three day after it's first landfall in Florida to prepare for its hitting Louisiana.  Water, non-perishable foods and other needed supplies should have been secured in advance of this storm.  Heck, it should be ready PERMANENTLY.  Stockpile it somewhere.  I know that fruits and vegetables cannot be stockpiled as such, but canned good can.  Stock it, store it, have it ready for just such an emergency.

I won't go as far as some and say that the government's lack of action was either 1) premeditated, or 2) based on class or race.  I don't believe that, in the end, it was either.  I believe that it was based on an ignorance of the power of hurricanes on both the state and national level, of a general lack of prepardness for a natural disaster, and a lack of pre-planning.

And Bush shouldn't shoulder all the blame here:  in fact, I would give more to the governor of Louisiana and the mayor of New Orleans, who also were woefully unprepared for such a calamity.  But Bush must, and will, shoulder his share for the delayed response of the national government to help meet the needs of its citizens in this disaster.  It will be an indelible mark on his record, a smear on his legacy, that in a time of urgency for his own people, President Bush apparently (whether rightly or wrongly) sat on his hands for several days.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 02:07:50 PM

Quote• On CNN TV: Dr. Phil on healing after Katrina, 9 p.m. ET

:puke

Not a big fan of Dr. Phil, huh Dio?

:-D :-D

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on September 04, 2005, 02:24:43 PM

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 02:07:50 PM

Quote• On CNN TV: Dr. Phil on healing after Katrina, 9 p.m. ET

:puke

Not a big fan of Dr. Phil, huh Dio?

:-D :-D

At least it isn't Dr. Ruth prescribing the "healing."

from DU, for all our resident Bush apologists, here's the memo.  make sure not to deviate.  loyalty is rewarded, as Michael Brown can attest.

"Don't criticize Bush BEFORE he screws up -- pushing massive tax cuts, ignoring counterterrorism warnings, banging war drums, vacationing during a storm -- because maybe it'll all work out fine, give it a chance, you don't have a crystal ball!"

"Don't criticize Bush DURING his screw ups, because now is not the time when we're in the middle of a crisis -- it doesn't help the people who are struggling, it undermines morale, it's divisive when we should all be pulling together!"

"Don't criticize Bush AFTER his screw ups, because we need to move on and get over it -- besides, it wasn't his fault, he didn't know, Democrats are just trying to politicize this, and we have other things to deal with right now."

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 04, 2005, 12:59:21 PM
Right, because it's really easy for poor people and invalids to go out and stock up on food, water and medicine, pile it in the cars (that they don't have) and drive out of the city leaving the few possessions that they do own. They don't live in squaler because they have no money, they're just cheap.

People like you are what's wrong with this country. Who the farg cares about anyone else as long as your SUV is running and you don't have to worry about anyone but yourself. Yeah the Bush admin has done a bang up job and God forbid anyone be upset with them. How's that war in iraq going? Oh, but we shouldn't talk about that either..."Stay the course", isn't that the party line these days or is it still  "We will persevere?"

Like SD said, they had the option to leave. There were public busses taking people out that didn't have a way to leave. I fail to see how the government can be blamed for this? They told the people that if you stay, you might die and that you should have food, water, and meds. Now, if you were poor and couldn't obtain food or water, then why the farg would you not leave?

No, people like me aren't what's with America. What's wrong is the bleeding-heart armchair administrators like you who criticize Bush and his administration because you and the rest of the liberal corksuckers out there think that we live in a People's State that is set up to provide omnipresent protection.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 03:49:12 PMNo, people like me aren't what's with America.

You've had the presidencey, the entire Congress, and damn near the Supreme Court for the last five years.  And things look just great.

Quote from: Geowhizzer on September 04, 2005, 02:24:38 PM

3. Where I fault President Bush was his failure in this instance to foresee the possible problems.  Many will say that it was not foreseeable, but as has been stated many times before, just such a catastrophe has been predicted.  I won't blame this on just Bush:  Those levees in LA and Mississippi should have been upgraded long before, whether by the Army Corps of Engineers or by a private group.  But there should be a permanent emergency response plan for natural disasters such as this:  the military/National Guard in total readiness to move in for every hurricane, and move in even if damage at first appears minimal.  Have emergency supplies ready in advance of the storm.  There was a blessed WEEK to prepare for this storm hitting, and even three day after it's first landfall in Florida to prepare for its hitting Louisiana.  Water, non-perishable foods and other needed supplies should have been secured in advance of this storm.  Heck, it should be ready PERMANENTLY.  Stockpile it somewhere.  I know that fruits and vegetables cannot be stockpiled as such, but canned good can.  Stock it, store it, have it ready for just such an emergency.

I won't go as far as some and say that the government's lack of action was either 1) premeditated, or 2) based on class or race.  I don't believe that, in the end, it was either.  I believe that it was based on an ignorance of the power of hurricanes on both the state and national level, of a general lack of prepardness for a natural disaster, and a lack of pre-planning.

WE DO NOT HAVE INFINITE RESOURCES. You want our resources devoted to putting New Orleans on standby? What happens when somewhere ELSE is hit? Our resources are bogged down in a city that doesn't need the help. If we had infinite money and troops and could put troops and equipment on standy on every city that might possibly get hit by the hurricane, I would be all for it. But guess what, WE DON'T. We have limited money and limited troops, and therefore we must act accordingly. The fact that we know the hurricane is a possibility means nothing. A hurricane is a possibility for every city on the east coast. An earthquake is a possibility for every city in California. A tornado is a possibility for every city in the Middle West. A terrorist attack is a possibility for every major metropolitan area. To try to pre-emptively protect against all of these disasters, even though we know they can happen, is impossible.

People keep saying that we saw the hurricane comming. Guess what. WE DIDN'T. When it hit Florida, we didn't see it becoming a category five, we didn't see it heading back to the gulf, we didn't see it hitting Louisiana. As soon as we did, that's when the wheels started turning. To do so any earlier would be a waste of money and foolish, and had the hurricane NOT hit, stupid fargs would be bitching at the government for spending our money without any result.

Eagles76ersFan, I'm not reading your posts anymore.  You are so ignorant it hurts; you're wasting my time.  Keep posting all you like, though.  Someone likes to hear the litany of bullshtein and Bush sucking, I'm sure.

On a side note, a personal friend who is a photo-journalist just landed the cover of Time.  Her photo of a woman pushing a woman in a wheelchair through floodwaters is her first major weekly cover.  :yay

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 04:09:23 PM
Bush sucking

Something new to add to the keyword meta tags. :D

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 03:59:55 PM

Quote from: Geowhizzer on September 04, 2005, 02:24:38 PM

3. Where I fault President Bush was his failure in this instance to foresee the possible problems.  Many will say that it was not foreseeable, but as has been stated many times before, just such a catastrophe has been predicted.  I won't blame this on just Bush:  Those levees in LA and Mississippi should have been upgraded long before, whether by the Army Corps of Engineers or by a private group.  But there should be a permanent emergency response plan for natural disasters such as this:  the military/National Guard in total readiness to move in for every hurricane, and move in even if damage at first appears minimal.  Have emergency supplies ready in advance of the storm.  There was a blessed WEEK to prepare for this storm hitting, and even three day after it's first landfall in Florida to prepare for its hitting Louisiana.  Water, non-perishable foods and other needed supplies should have been secured in advance of this storm.  Heck, it should be ready PERMANENTLY.  Stockpile it somewhere.  I know that fruits and vegetables cannot be stockpiled as such, but canned good can.  Stock it, store it, have it ready for just such an emergency.

I won't go as far as some and say that the government's lack of action was either 1) premeditated, or 2) based on class or race.  I don't believe that, in the end, it was either.  I believe that it was based on an ignorance of the power of hurricanes on both the state and national level, of a general lack of prepardness for a natural disaster, and a lack of pre-planning.

WE DO NOT HAVE INFINITE RESOURCES. You want our resources devoted to putting New Orleans on standby? What happens when somewhere ELSE is hit? Our resources are bogged down in a city that doesn't need the help. If we had infinite money and troops and could put troops and equipment on standy on every city that might possibly get hit by the hurricane, I would be all for it. But guess what, WE DON'T. We have limited money and limited troops, and therefore we must act accordingly. The fact that we know the hurricane is a possibility means nothing. A hurricane is a possibility for every city on the east coast. An earthquake is a possibility for every city in California. A tornado is a possibility for every city in the Middle West. A terrorist attack is a possibility for every major metropolitan area. To try to pre-emptively protect against all of these disasters, even though we know they can happen, is impossible.

People keep saying that we saw the hurricane comming. Guess what. WE DIDN'T. When it hit Florida, we didn't see it becoming a category five, we didn't see it heading back to the gulf, we didn't see it hitting Louisiana. As soon as we did, that's when the wheels started turning. To do so any earlier would be a waste of money and foolish, and had the hurricane NOT hit, stupid fargs would be bitching at the government for spending our money without any result.

And if there isn't a true emergency, the troops can be pulled out almost immediately.  Better to have them there, though, wouldn't you say?

I've seen enough from these hurricanes to know that there's SOMETHING that must be done to better prepare.  I've already put much of the onus on the individual states.  However, there's got to be some kind of supply chain that is ready to go instantaneously when an emergency does strike. 

And, I hate to say, SOME did see exactlly what happened with Katrina.  Our local weather forecaster, Jim Farrell of WINK-TV, even when we were battening down the hatches for the CAT-1 version of Katrina, said that it was going to go south of us, into the Gulf, and strengthen to a major hurricane over the extremely warm waters (93+ degrees) of the Gulf of Mexico.  This was BEFORE Katrina even hit the Gulf coast of Florida.  If our local guy, with the mediocre resources of a small-city television studio, can predict this storm so accurately, why can't the federal government, with its vast array of resources, be even adequately prepared for a storm it knew would hit SOMEWHERE in the continental United States days in advance.

Have basic provisions (water, non-perishable foods) ready on June 1, the beginning of hurricane season (though early May would be better).  Mobilize the local National Guards a full week before the storm is to hit.  Have the Gulf and Atlantic states (my mom reminds me all the time of the immense flooding in PA caused by Agnes in 1972, so it's not just the south, either) help in the preparation.  It shouldn't take much in the way of our apparently skimpy resources to be adequately prepared.  How come we can so quickly come up with this stuff when it's southern Asia or Africa, but not when it comes to providing for our own citizens?

Why is it too much to ask for basic provisions to be ready when EVERY YEAR, SOMEWHERE, a hurricane hits and causes major damage in the Southeast?  Or mudslides in the West?  Or tornadoes in the Midwest?  Or blizzards in the Northeast?

What happened in New Orleans should NEVER happen in a country as strong, as wealthy, as supposedly humane as the United States.  The governmental prepareness was inept.  The government response was inadequate.  Democrats, Republicans, whoever, should be better prepared than they were to handle this situation.  As catastrophic as the storm was naturally, the way the local, state and national governments mishandled the situation made the damage that much worse.

Quote from: Geowhizzer on September 04, 2005, 04:20:20 PM
And if there isn't a true emergency, the troops can be pulled out almost immediately.  Better to have them there, though, wouldn't you say?

I've seen enough from these hurricanes to know that there's SOMETHING that must be done to better prepare.  I've already put much of the onus on the individual states.  However, there's got to be some kind of supply chain that is ready to go instantaneously when an emergency does strike. 

And, I hate to say, SOME did see exactlly what happened with Katrina.  Our local weather forecaster, Jim Farrell of WINK-TV, even when we were battening down the hatches for the CAT-1 version of Katrina, said that it was going to go south of us, into the Gulf, and strengthen to a major hurricane over the extremely warm waters (93+ degrees) of the Gulf of Mexico.  This was BEFORE Katrina even hit the Gulf coast of Florida.  If our local guy, with the mediocre resources of a small-city television studio, can predict this storm so accurately, why can't the federal government, with its vast array of resources, be even adequately prepared for a storm it knew would hit SOMEWHERE in the continental United States days in advance.

Have basic provisions (water, non-perishable foods) ready on June 1, the beginning of hurricane season (though early May would be better).  Mobilize the local National Guards a full week before the storm is to hit.  Have the Gulf and Atlantic states (my mom reminds me all the time of the immense flooding in PA caused by Agnes in 1972, so it's not just the south, either) help in the preparation.  It shouldn't take much in the way of our apparently skimpy resources to be adequately prepared.  How come we can so quickly come up with this stuff when it's southern Asia or Africa, but not when it comes to providing for our own citizens?

Why is it too much to ask for basic provisions to be ready when EVERY YEAR, SOMEWHERE, a hurricane hits and causes major damage in the Southeast?  Or mudslides in the West?  Or tornadoes in the Midwest?  Or blizzards in the Northeast?

What happened in New Orleans should NEVER happen in a country as strong, as wealthy, as supposedly humane as the United States.  The governmental prepareness was inept.  The government response was inadequate.  Democrats, Republicans, whoever, should be better prepared than they were to handle this situation.  As catastrophic as the storm was naturally, the way the local, state and national governments mishandled the situation made the damage that much worse.

I suppose we could have had 10,000 National Guard troops loaded with enough food and water to feed 100,000 people for 3 weeks, waiting in a parkinglot in TN. Of course, dont forget the medical supply teams and the search and rescue squadrons that would be there too. Oh, and we need to have a couple thousand busses on deck as well, someone's going to need to transport all those refugees. So we have all of this equipment, the people to support it, and the troops numbering close to 15,000, waiting in TN or TX for the go ahead order. It's a nice idea but it is far from realistic. If this could of been done, don't you think it would have?

the interdictor (http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/) is remarkable reading.  this from 11 a.m.:

QuoteA lot of tankers have been going by. I'm not sure what's in the plain, nondescript silver ones are carrying -- could be fuel, could be water for the rescuers and relief effort.

Also, like you I've heard the rumors of cannibalism, but I have no confirmation from any of the police.

The city really does look like a ghost town. It's so bizarre to see streets which are normally highly trafficed having such a limited flow of vehicles. And at night it's weird to see all these high rises with no light coming from the buildings. No street lights, no traffic lights, the clock on the Whitney Bank building on Poydras and Camp -- a widely recognized feature -- is stopped. The debris is still everywhere. Cars abandoned all over the place. Abandoned and trashed. And the quiet. Aside from the occasional vehicle, this place has no sound. Every piece of glass that used to be a high rise window which hits the ground can be heard blocks away.

I wonder how things will be different in this city when this is all behind us.

Update: On cam, way down the street, you can see what appears to be an armed military foot patrol. First one I've seen.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 03:49:12 PM
Like SD said, they had the option to leave. There were public busses taking people out that didn't have a way to leave. I fail to see how the government can be blamed for this? They told the people that if you stay, you might die and that you should have food, water, and meds. Now, if you were poor and couldn't obtain food or water, then why the farg would you not leave?

No, people like me aren't what's with America. What's wrong is the bleeding-heart armchair administrators like you who criticize Bush and his administration because you and the rest of the liberal corksuckers out there think that we live in a People's State that is set up to provide omnipresent protection.

Like a prototypical Bush supporter when you get cornered on your bullshtein spin you dance around the issue when not outright ignoring every point. I'd rather be a "bleeding-heart" that gives a shtein about the country I live in than a Bush scyophant  that can't do anything but wave the flag and ignore any valid criticism like a child holding his hands over his ears going "la-la-la-la". But that's ok, Bush is doing great as President, the economy is booming, gas prices aren't sky rocketing, big business isn't ruling the country and we're winning the wars on drugs, terror and in Iraq. Is it too late to join the GOP, I think I've seen the light?

I'm through with you and your nonsense.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 04:37:35 PM
the interdictor (http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/) is remarkable reading. this from 11 a.m.:

They were interviewed (by phone) on MSNBC earlier today. :yay

They didn't get too much into what they've seen or anything (MSNBC promoted the blog though) mainly just talked about why they stayed and such. They're going to be getting some extra business out of this I'm sure.

Has Bush put the White House flag at half mast yet?  Who makes that call?  I mean, who tells the nation to do it?  I submit that it's time to lower all the flags.

The plot thickens.  Let's see if the NRA and the ACLU don't find themselves in bed together over this one:

Police shoot to death at least six in New Orleans (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9208195/)

QuoteBy BREAKING NEWS
Updated: 5:01 p.m. ET Sept. 4, 2005

NEW ORLEANS - Police shot eight people carrying guns on a New Orleans bridge Sunday, killing five or six of them, a deputy chief said.

Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said the shootings took place on the Danziger Bridge, which connects Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River.

He said he had no other details.
This breaking story will be updated.

I miss NB.

:'(

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 05:03:15 PM
Has Bush put the White House flag at half mast yet?  Who makes that call?  I mean, who tells the nation to do it?  I submit that it's time to lower all the flags.

I was thinking about that yesterday while in the car. I was wondering how the flags were still not at half mast? I was also pretty disgusted and got tears in my eyes.

Eagles76ersFan...your posts could possibly be some of the most delusional and ignorant ones I've seen on this forum before. You rank right up there with the self-banned NoneBetta. You're actually trying to argue with fellow Republicans who are Bush supporters, only THEY can see that there is fault...you, for whatever reason, are so far gone, you can't see it. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE IT?

I'd like to re-iterate the fact that Michael Chertoff is a douchebag.


Thank you.

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 04, 2005, 04:35:19 PM
I suppose we could have had 10,000 National Guard troops loaded with enough food and water to feed 100,000 people for 3 weeks, waiting in a parkinglot in TN. Of course, dont forget the medical supply teams and the search and rescue squadrons that would be there too. Oh, and we need to have a couple thousand busses on deck as well, someone's going to need to transport all those refugees. So we have all of this equipment, the people to support it, and the troops numbering close to 15,000, waiting in TN or TX for the go ahead order. It's a nice idea but it is far from realistic. If this could of been done, don't you think it would have?

I don't think that it is unrealistic to:

1.  Have 10,000 National Guard troops on STANDBY (at their home bases), ready to deploy as soon as it is safe to do so after the storm hits.
2.  Have ready supplies centrally located somewhere (Tennessee may be a good place, not too far from any part of the South, but far enough away that a hurricane won't actually ravage that part of the nation.  Restock it every spring.
3.  Have some sort of action plan ready to go, in conjunction with the state governments of the Gulf and South Atlantic states, that encompasses:
      a) when to evacuate the able-bodied and how to coordinate evacuation of both the poor and disabled/elderly in the event a major hurricane is approaching
      b) what the governments can do to prevent the flooding catastrophe that happened after the storm in New Orleans
      c) A plan to get those troops on standby to the areas in need as soon as possible, WITH SUPPLIES, in the shortest possible amount of time

Again, I don't think that Bush was up there saying, "Nah, let the people suffer somemore.  I've got a barbecue to go to tonight!"  However, I believe that the goverment was needlessly tardy in sending troops and supplies because of poor planning and resource management. 

Who knows how many lives could have been saved if needed personnel and supplies had reached Louisiana on Tuesday or Wednesday instead of FRIDAY or SATURDAY?  The delay, with proper planning, was avoidable.  That just adds to the tragedy.

And again:  The TROOPS can be on standby at their home bases.  Send as many as the results require, but have the troops ready to leave IMMEDIATELY to prevent what happened in Louisiana from occurring again.  The supplies should be stored and ready to move at a central location- perhaps a "first response" unit.

As a former member of the NJ National Guard I can tell you this...there is almost no way you can call up 10,000 troops within 24 hours.  At least in NJ, there are no "home bases"...there are only local armories where we did the majority of our training.  The closest thing to a "home base" would be Fort Dix but there is no way you can deploy 10,000 troops there that fast because there would no where to put all those people.

Could the response from locals been faster?  Yes.

Could the federal response have been faster?  Yes.

Would it have saved lives?  Yes, but we'll never know how many.

There is not one person/organisation to "blame" here.  It was a natural disaster exacerbated by the red tape associated with our form of government.  Most of the city was underwater after the levees/flood walls broke and it didn't matter how many troops you had at that point...you can't march through streets that are under 10+ feet of water.

There was no leadership at the local or National level..that is the most disturbing aspect.  It seems like the recovery efforts were leaderless and without coordination, and as mentioned by a few people here, that is mainly FEMA's domain.   

Quote from: Butchers Bill on September 05, 2005, 01:24:23 AM
There is not one person/organisation to "blame" here. It was a natural disaster exacerbated by the red tape associated with our form of government.

No one person to blame?  Okay.  No one org to blame?  Ok.  Certainly it would be foolish to lay blame on one head, or one group.  What I can't stomach is this persistence that somehow it was the red tape that caused the deaths, not the people in charge.  That's bullshtein.  Sing yourself to sleep absolving the rulers all you want, it won't change the fact that they knew, they had the power to do something, and they did nothing.  American citizens died exactly because our government failed to protect them from a known threat, despite explicit warnings about this event, and in the face of constant evidence that the worst had occurred.  Every official at FEMA should be fired.  The head of Homeland Security should be fired.  And Bush should be impeached.  WTF good is a President if he can't lead the rescue of one of his own cities?  He failed.  He failed aggregiously.  There is more blood on the hands of our leaders than on the memory of Katrina herself.

Hurricane Center Director Tells Paper He Briefed Brown and Chertoff on Danger of Severe Flooding (http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054595)

QuoteNEW YORK Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center, told the Times-Picayune Sunday afternoon that officials with the Federal Emergency Management Agency and the Department of Homeland Security, including FEMA Director Mike Brown and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, listened in on electronic briefings given by his staff in advance of Hurricane Katrina slamming Louisiana and Mississippi--and were advised of the storm's potential deadly effects.

"Mayfield said the strength of the storm and the potential disaster it could bring were made clear during both the briefings and in formal advisories, which warned of a storm surge capable of overtopping levees in New Orleans and winds strong enough to blow out windows of high-rise buildings," the paper reported. "He said the briefings included information on expected wind speed, storm surge, rainfall and the potential for tornados to accompany the storm as it came ashore.

"We were briefing them way before landfall," Mayfield said. "It's not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped."

Chertoff told reporters Saturday that government officials had not expected the damaging combination of a powerful hurricane levee breaches that flooded New Orleans.

Once again, I'll remind you:  Brown was fired from his last job, as judge for a horse club, landing with FEMA solely on the basis of his college friendship with one of Bush's pals.  None of these bastiches at FEMA know what the hell they are doing, and it's not even really they're fault.  THEY'RE NOT QUALFIED FOR THEIR JOBS!  BUSH FILLED THE POSITIONS BASED ON POLITICAL LOYALTY TO HIS REGIME.

FEMA just doesn't know WTF they're doing.

Nevada Cops made to Stand Down by FEMA (http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2005/09/04/108069.php?sps=rgj.com&sch=LocalNews&sp1=rgj&sp2=News&sp3=Local+News&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=local_news)

QuoteShortly before they were set to leave for Hurricane Katrina-battered states, a group of about 100 law enforcement officers from across Nevada was told to stay put by the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

FEMA officials put the contingent on hold Sunday afternoon for one to three days until its mission can be determined, Nevada Highway Patrol spokesman Kevin Honea said.

The officers were in briefing at the NHP office in Las Vegas when they received the word. They had been scheduled to depart in a convoy of patrol cars at 3 p.m. Sunday from the office.

"It's our understanding the mission is still a go but just on hold," Honea said. "FEMA wants to ascertain where and how they will deploy us before sending us. They want us to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Obviously, there are some people who are disappointed."

FEMA officials had no immediate comment, saying they would need time to determine the source of the confusion.

Let me anticipate the reply:  They can't all rush in at once.  It's a big project, it can't run smoothly.  Blah blah blah. 
How about they let them leave Nevada and figure out what to do with them as they are en route?  It'll take a while to get there.

[government apologists]There's no way we could have known.  Bush didn't know.  Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco are at fault, they didn't ask for help loud enough.  Slurp, slurp.[/government apologists]

link (http://www.americaswetland.com/article.cfm?id=241&cateid=2&pageid=3&cid=16)

QuoteParishes Against Coastal Erosion (PACE) Response to the Bush Administration's June 14, 2005 Policy Statement on the Proposed Energy Act of 2005

By Parishes Against Coastal Erosion

Scientists from the U.S. Geological Survey, NOAA and other federal and state agencies along with university experts agree that nowhere in the world is a coastal region losing wetlands and protective barrier islands faster than Louisiana. About this there is no doubt. It is predicted that by 2050, one third of coastal Louisiana will have vanished into the Gulf of Mexico. Our coast and its wetlands is a system on the verge of collapse. Without wetlands to buffer storms, our people and property and the nation's energy supply are at risk. Oil and gas pipelines and facilities, which provide 25% of the Nation's energy needs, are more vulnerable with each storm. Oil and gas activities and federal actions to control the Mississippi River for navigation and flood control are largely responsible for the drastic loss of our coastal. PACE believes we are completely within our right to ask the federal government to share money generated from offshore oil and gas revenues with the coastal states that bear a disproportionate burden in supporting this nation's energy needs.

Louisiana's congressional delegation has urged Congress for more than a decade to return to the state a fair share of the revenue from the production of offshore oil and gas both because of the impact of offshore production on Louisiana and because interior states get 50% of revenues from oil and gas production on federal lands.

The president has supported the concept, but has backed off when it comes to funding the restoration effort. PACE believes Louisiana can no longer afford to wait. Louisiana urgently needs guaranteed resources to thwart a catastrophe that is not being given the sense of urgency that it demands.

We believe the case has been made. Louisiana's wetlands - America's WETLAND - is crucial to the nations oil and gas production, commercial fisheries, navigation and commerce and national security. Restoring the damage hastened by years of inland and offshore drilling is clearly a national responsibility.

The President, in this Policy Statement, has failed us. To sidestep this as a key issue would be a serious deficiency, in the Energy Bill, and the entire nation will suffer as a consequence.

Our Louisiana legislature this month passed a constitutional amendment requiring any new offshore oil and gas revenue to be put in a trust fund dedicated to coastal erosion.

Louisiana has made a commitment. Now, it's time for the President to step up to the plate and support funding to prevent the untold damage to the ecology, economy and potential loss of life in large numbers.

With the National Hurricane Center predicting another active hurricane season, PACE President Aaron Broussard said he fears that it is going to take a major storm and significant loss of life before the nation acts responsibly.

The PACE organization's frustration with the Administration's Statement was reflected in St. Bernard Parish President, Henry "Junior" Rodriguez's comment that "Louisiana contributes much to this Nations energy needs. It's time we take a hard look at our alternatives and consider whether we want to keep up this level of oil and gas production."

If you have any questions, please contact Jefferson Parish President and PACE President, Aaron Broussard at (504) 736-6400.

It's already been shown eslewhere in this thread how highly Bush valued these warnings and others like them.  He cut the budgets every year.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 05:03:15 PM
Has Bush put the White House flag at half mast yet?  Who makes that call?  I mean, who tells the nation to do it?  I submit that it's time to lower all the flags.

That is a good call if it hasn't been done it should be right now.

Tsunami nations offer disaster advice to US (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050905/us_nm/asia_tsunami_dc)

Editor and Publisher (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054581)

QuotePresident Bush, in his weekly radio address on Saturday, said: "In America, we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need." But Bush, and his top aides, quite frankly, did just that.

I was reminded of this today, seeing pictures of Vice President Dick Cheney finally showing up at the White House after riding out the storm-of-the-century in Wyoming. Perhaps he brought back with him a couple dozen trout to throw on the grill for the White House staffers.

His absence, and the president's performance during it, can only add to the rumors that Bush is clueless without the Big Guy
at his side.

This follows Bush himself remaining on vacation for more than two days after the storm hit, despite acknowledging this was the worst disaster in the nation's history. He did take a trip during those days, not back to Washington but out to San Diego to deliver a political speech comparing his Iraq war to World War II. [SD_Eagle played a cameo here, but considering the circumstances I'll forgive E&P the omission this time.]  It got little play because nearly everyone else in the country, beyond his inner circle, was focused on New Orleans instead.

What that trip did produce was a picture of Bush laughing with a country singer and strumming a guitar. But at least the president did start heading home late Wednesday. As he did, Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice was still enjoying her vacation in New York.

In fact, that night she enjoyed a few good yucks while attending the goofy Broadway play "Spamalot." Ironically, the Bush team's performance this week did indeed seem like something out of a Monty Python skit. Each, in his or her own way, took a bunch of "silly walks."

Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

This is what our "leaders" were doing.  You know, the one's who people are lining up to defend?  What was Mayor Nagin doing, they ask, spinning blame as fast as possible.  He was working.  Rice was at a Broadway show, for farg's sake!

God damn these politicians.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 05, 2005, 01:07:24 PM
Condi also played tennis with Monica Seles and on Thursday went on a shoe-shopping spree on Fifth Avenue until a fellow customer yelled at her for not doing her job and bloggers exposed all of this. Then she hurriedly headed back to Washington. Whoops, we discovered she was overdue in getting a grip on offers to help that were pouring in from overseas governments and organizations.

This is rich. I would have LOVED to have been a part of that.

3 Duke students got into New Orlean in a Hundyai, brought water and other supplies, then evacuated seven people.  All while the United States of America's government and it's nationalist sheeple apologists were crying Mea Culpa!! Mea Culpa!!

link (http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-643298.html)

Quote
DURHAM -- A trio of Duke University sophomores say they drove to New Orleans late last week, posed as journalists to slip inside the hurricane-soaked city twice, and evacuated seven people who weren't receiving help from authorities.

The group, led by South Carolina native Sonny Byrd, say they also managed to drive all the way to the New Orleans Convention Center, where they encountered scenes early Saturday evening that they say were disgraceful.

"We found it absolutely incredible that the authorities had no way to get there for four or five days, that they didn't go in and help these people, and we made it in a two-wheel-drive Hyundai," said Hans Buder, who made the trip with his roommate Byrd and another student, David Hankla.

Buder's account -- told by cell phone Sunday evening as the trio neared Montgomery, Ala., on their way home -- chronicled a three-day odyssey that began when the students, angered by the news reports they were seeing on CNN, loaded up their car with bottled water and headed for the Gulf coast to see if they could lend a hand.

The trio say they left Durham about 6 p.m. Thursday and reached Montgomery about 12 hours later. After catching 1½ hours of sleep, they reached the coast at Mobile. From there, they traveled through the Mississippi cities of Biloxi and Gulfport.

more at link

There will be many, many stories like this one.  The people give and do what the government won't: as much as they can.

---

Duke sucks.

Quote from: Drunkmasterflex on September 05, 2005, 11:54:56 AM

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 05:03:15 PM
Has Bush put the White House flag at half mast yet?  Who makes that call?  I mean, who tells the nation to do it?  I submit that it's time to lower all the flags.

That is a good call if it hasn't been done it should be right now.

I don't believe (going by the "rules") that this particular incident requires the flag to be flown at half staff.  Typically, this honor is reserved high ranking governent officials or catastrophic events (non natural disaster, ie 9/11 or Pearl Harbor).  As for who decides if/when the flag is to be flown at half staff, the decision can be made at many levels.  Obviously the President can declare all flags to be flown at half staff for national mourning or rememberence.  Governers, mayors, etc can also make the decision on more local levels.  Police and Fire Departments often fly their flag at half staff if someone from their precinct or department is killed in the line of duty.  That obviously would be up to the individual station chief or possibly the city chief. 

Here (http://www.bcpl.net/~etowner/flagcode.html) are some of the rules regarding the flag and flying it at half mast. 

Quote(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress.

Now given those particular rules, I don't think that this event warrants the flag being flown at half staff.  However, Section 8 of the Flag Code provides the President the authority to make changes to the rules. 

QuoteSEC. 8 Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in proclamation.

Should it be flown at half staff?  Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't.  My initial thought is no but at the same time, if the decision is made to do so, I'll live. 

Another example of people doing as much as they can:

San Diego man (http://www.10news.com/news/4936358/detail.html) charters private jet to evacuate people from Baton Rouge. 

QuotePerez, owner of Surge Global Energy, spent about $250,000 to charter a jet to bring 80 evacuees to San Diego Sunday. Perez was reloading the plane with supplies and planned to fly back Sunday night to pick up more displaced hurricane survivors.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 05, 2005, 10:41:50 AM

No one person to blame?  Okay.  No one org to blame?  Ok.  Certainly it would be foolish to lay blame on one head, or one group.  What I can't stomach is this persistence that somehow it was the red tape that caused the deaths, not the people in charge.  That's bullshtein.  Sing yourself to sleep absolving the rulers all you want, it won't change the fact that they knew, they had the power to do something, and they did nothing.  American citizens died exactly because our government failed to protect them from a known threat, despite explicit warnings about this event, and in the face of constant evidence that the worst had occurred.  Every official at FEMA should be fired.  The head of Homeland Security should be fired. 

Never said it was the red tape that caused the deaths, but it didn't help either.  What exactly did the "leaders" know Dio?  That there was a potential flood threat to New Orleans?  Every administration since Hurricane Camille in 1969 knew there was a problem, yet the levees were still over 100 years old.  The entire Mississippi River is a flood area, so saying it was known is like saying its known that there will someday be an Earthquake in Southern California.  You cannot prevent natural disaters, but you can manage the aftermath which was a clusterfarg from the top down (yes, including Bush).   

Quote from: Diomedes on September 05, 2005, 10:41:50 AM
And Bush should be impeached. 

Thats whats its all about for you and your ilk.  You cannot see that "Government" failed NOLA, because the only person you want to blame is Bush.  The Mayor, Gov. of LA, FEMA, and POTUS, all failed in their own ways and it is not acceptable, and there should be (and I am sure will be) an investigation into what happened, and how it happened.

Joel,

I am far from a liberal- remember, I think I tested even more conservative than you did on that Political test that was linked to CF a few months back.

I also have stressed that I do not solely blame Bush.  In fact, I would, like you, put more responsibility on the state and local governments than on the national government.  But all must share in the responsibility for the lack of governmental response to this emergency.  Help from the government- local, state and national- was far to delayed and far too little when it first did come.

I'll take your word on the National Guard situation.  Perhaps that is something that the government needs to look into.  The National Guard, if I can reminisce, used to be stressed as an aid in situations exactly like this.  I can even remember commericals from my childhood that showed National Guard troops hoisting sandbags to prevent flooding.

The has to be SOME way of being able to mobilize troops to help out in times of emergency.  What happened in Louisiana and Mississippi was unacceptable.  We've gone to the aid of other nations faster than the government moved to help its own citizens.

Hopefully Bush can move to help the people of the Gulf coast and erase some of the blights against his presidential record.  However, I don't believe tha he will ever be able to erase them all.

And some plan must be put together to prevent this from happening again.  The government must be more responsive in the face of natural disaster.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 04, 2005, 08:51:35 PM
Eagles76ersFan...your posts could possibly be some of the most delusional and ignorant ones I've seen on this forum before. You rank right up there with the self-banned NoneBetta. You're actually trying to argue with fellow Republicans who are Bush supporters, only THEY can see that there is fault...you, for whatever reason, are so far gone, you can't see it. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE IT?

It isn't the federal government's responsibility to prepare local communities for natural disasters. There is plenty of blame to go around, but the finger-pointing needs to start with the New Orleans city authorities and Lousiana government. NOT PRESIDENT BUSH AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/4/151327.shtml

I particularly like how the point is made that Jeb Bush dealt with four hurricanes last year, and we never saw Pensacola or Miami turn into lawless pits like New Orleans.

The mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana are blaming the feds for their own lack of disaster management is farging criminal and I can't believe people are actual buying into their shtein.

Something else that really pisses me off is the criticism that the war in Iraq has depleted the number of LA state troops. Each state must factor in domestic needs when providing the US Army with National Guard units. There may be a shortage of National Guardsmen in Lousiana, but their governor is the one who freed them up for service in Iraq/Afghanistan. It is an incredibly unfair and outright incorrect to blame President Bush for any kind of crap like this.

Blame is to be placed on Bush, but not nearly as much blame that should be put on the New Orleans city authorities and Lousiana government.

Oh, and WTF is Japan doing? http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.world.aid/index.html

QuoteJapan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said. Japan also will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests, the ministry said.

Is that a joke? $200k from the second wealthiest country in the world when Nigeria is giving $1mm. We got shtein on for initially only offering $300mm in tsunami relief. Are they still pissed over that thing with those 2 atomic bombs 60 years ago?

Quote from: Geowhizzer on September 05, 2005, 05:28:12 PM
Joel,

I am far from a liberal- remember, I think I tested even more conservative than you did on that Political test that was linked to CF a few months back.

I also have stressed that I do not solely blame Bush. In fact, I would, like you, put more responsibility on the state and local governments than on the national government. But all must share in the responsibility for the lack of governmental response to this emergency. Help from the government- local, state and national- was far to delayed and far too little when it first did come.

I'll take your word on the National Guard situation. Perhaps that is something that the government needs to look into. The National Guard, if I can reminisce, used to be stressed as an aid in situations exactly like this. I can even remember commericals from my childhood that showed National Guard troops hoisting sandbags to prevent flooding.

The has to be SOME way of being able to mobilize troops to help out in times of emergency. What happened in Louisiana and Mississippi was unacceptable. We've gone to the aid of other nations faster than the government moved to help its own citizens.

Hopefully Bush can move to help the people of the Gulf coast and erase some of the blights against his presidential record. However, I don't believe tha he will ever be able to erase them all.

And some plan must be put together to prevent this from happening again. The government must be more responsive in the face of natural disaster.

Well said.  :yay

Re:  National Guard.   You are correct with thier primary mission (http://www.arng.army.mil/faq/faq_answer.asp?faq_category_id=8&faq_id=74) being to provide aid and assistance on a state level.  Basically, the National Guard is a state run army.  While their funding comes from the DOD, they basically report to their resepctive state's governor.  But of course, during times or War and/or national emergency (like right now) the President can take control over the Nat Guard and use them at his discretion (see airport security post 9/11 and OIF I and II). 

Re: Mobilizing the National Guard.  It is and most likely will always be a logistical nightmare to try and do a massive mobilization of National Guardsmen.  Reason being is that the Guard is primarily a reserve force.  The projected end strentgh (manpower) (http://www.asafm.army.mil/budget/fybm/fy04-05/pbhi.pdf#search='national%20guard%20end%20strength') for the Nat. Guard for FY-05 (which ends Sep 30) is 350,000.  National Guard units themselves are scattered all throughout the country, many times blending right in with the civilian environment surrounding them.  There are no Nat. Guard bases like the Army, Navy AF and Marines have.  They are typically limited to 1 maybe even 2 buildings where they gather one weekend a month for their training.  So what we're looking at here is basically 350,00 Guardsman who in many cases may live in excess of 2 or 3 hours away from their closest armory.  They've got regular full time jobs in the civilian world and trying to coordinate a mass recall of all of them is a lengthy and time consuming process.  The Army in itself is too large to initiate any type of speedy response.  They are big, slow and methodical.  When units are mobilized, the individual members must first be contacted.  They're given a report date/time.  For those who do not live local to the unit, it's obviously going to take them longer to get there.  Also you've got to take into account that many of these reservists have civilian jobs that may require them to travel (ie: salesmen businessmen, etc) in which case it may take them a day or 2 to get back.  Then, once the unit is assembled, they will report to the closest military instillation which may also be several hours away.  Gear and equipment must be issued, warning orders given and mission briefs.  In some cases it could take several days to completely stand up a single Guard unit. 

If you remember the attacks on 9/11, all airports where shut down for 4 or 5 days.  When they reopened, the Nat. Guard was there.  The gov't had the luxury of just closing the airports for a few days in order to not only assess the damage and additional potential threats, but they also needed that time to mobilize the guard.  This was done at the state level so all of the mobilizations were of a local nature.  There was no massive move required.  And it still took several days to make that happen.  So when a catrophe like Hurricane Katrina happens, there is simply no way that the Guard can mobilize themselves quickly enough.  And unlike 9/11, we can't just "shut down" the affected area to call in support. 

I'm not defending it or suggesting that it's right.  I'm just saying that it's the nature of the beast.  The Guard is designed to provide assitance on a local level.  When something like this happens, they simply aren't prepared to handle it.  Perhaps they (the big wigs) need to reevaluate the purpose and structure of the Nat. Guard and improve it's readiness and mobilization capabilities.  But under is current structure, it's logistically impossible to mobilize a force primarily made up of reservists in a short amount of time.  The most logical solution would be to increase the amount of active duty guard members and have specifically trained units that are designed for immediate mobilization.  Of course, this would cost a bunch of money that would come out of the taxpayer's pocket so I'm not sure if they'd be willing to foot the bill on that one or not.

Having said all of that, the Nat. Guard aren't the ones to blame.  The level of blame is on a much higher and broader scope imo.   

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 05, 2005, 06:00:52 PM
Oh, and WTF is Japan doing? http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.world.aid/index.html

QuoteJapan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said. Japan also will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests, the ministry said.

Is that a joke? $200k from the second wealthiest country in the world when Nigeria is giving $1mm. We got shtein on for initially only offering $300mm in tsunami relief. Are they still pissed over that thing with those 2 atomic bombs 60 years ago?

I don't care if Japan is only offering $5.  It's still more money for the effort than what we've got now.  Now you're starting to sound like a spoiled little rich kid complaining about the brand new BMW you got for your 16th birthday because it didn't come with a 6 disc cd changer. 

Sure, they could offer more money.  A lot more money.  But the bottom line is that they don't have to offer shtein. 

Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 05, 2005, 06:18:14 PM

Quote from: Geowhizzer on September 05, 2005, 05:28:12 PM
Joel,

I am far from a liberal- remember, I think I tested even more conservative than you did on that Political test that was linked to CF a few months back.

I also have stressed that I do not solely blame Bush. In fact, I would, like you, put more responsibility on the state and local governments than on the national government. But all must share in the responsibility for the lack of governmental response to this emergency. Help from the government- local, state and national- was far to delayed and far too little when it first did come.

I'll take your word on the National Guard situation. Perhaps that is something that the government needs to look into. The National Guard, if I can reminisce, used to be stressed as an aid in situations exactly like this. I can even remember commericals from my childhood that showed National Guard troops hoisting sandbags to prevent flooding.

The has to be SOME way of being able to mobilize troops to help out in times of emergency. What happened in Louisiana and Mississippi was unacceptable. We've gone to the aid of other nations faster than the government moved to help its own citizens.

Hopefully Bush can move to help the people of the Gulf coast and erase some of the blights against his presidential record. However, I don't believe tha he will ever be able to erase them all.

And some plan must be put together to prevent this from happening again. The government must be more responsive in the face of natural disaster.

Well said.  :yay

Re:  National Guard.   You are correct with thier primary mission (http://www.arng.army.mil/faq/faq_answer.asp?faq_category_id=8&faq_id=74) being to provide aid and assistance on a state level.  Basically, the National Guard is a state run army.  While their funding comes from the DOD, they basically report to their resepctive state's governor.  But of course, during times or War and/or national emergency (like right now) the President can take control over the Nat Guard and use them at his discretion (see airport security post 9/11 and OIF I and II). 

Re: Mobilizing the National Guard.  It is and most likely will always be a logistical nightmare to try and do a massive mobilization of National Guardsmen.  Reason being is that the Guard is primarily a reserve force.  The projected end strentgh (manpower) (http://www.asafm.army.mil/budget/fybm/fy04-05/pbhi.pdf#search='national%20guard%20end%20strength') for the Nat. Guard for FY-05 (which ends Sep 30) is 350,000.  National Guard units themselves are scattered all throughout the country, many times blending right in with the civilian environment surrounding them.  There are no Nat. Guard bases like the Army, Navy AF and Marines have.  They are typically limited to 1 maybe even 2 buildings where they gather one weekend a month for their training.  So what we're looking at here is basically 350,00 Guardsman who in many cases may live in excess of 2 or 3 hours away from their closest armory.  They've got regular full time jobs in the civilian world and trying to coordinate a mass recall of all of them is a lengthy and time consuming process.  The Army in itself is too large to initiate any type of speedy response.  They are big, slow and methodical.  When units are mobilized, the individual members must first be contacted.  They're given a report date/time.  For those who do not live local to the unit, it's obviously going to take them longer to get there.  Also you've got to take into account that many of these reservists have civilian jobs that may require them to travel (ie: salesmen businessmen, etc) in which case it may take them a day or 2 to get back.  Then, once the unit is assembled, they will report to the closest military instillation which may also be several hours away.  Gear and equipment must be issued, warning orders given and mission briefs.  In some cases it could take several days to completely stand up a single Guard unit. 

If you remember the attacks on 9/11, all airports where shut down for 4 or 5 days.  When they reopened, the Nat. Guard was there.  The gov't had the luxury of just closing the airports for a few days in order to not only assess the damage and additional potential threats, but they also needed that time to mobilize the guard.  This was done at the state level so all of the mobilizations were of a local nature.  There was no massive move required.  And it still took several days to make that happen.  So when a catrophe like Hurricane Katrina happens, there is simply no way that the Guard can mobilize themselves quickly enough.  And unlike 9/11, we can't just "shut down" the affected area to call in support. 

I'm not defending it or suggesting that it's right.  I'm just saying that it's the nature of the beast.  The Guard is designed to provide assitance on a local level.  When something like this happens, they simply aren't prepared to handle it.  Perhaps they (the big wigs) need to reevaluate the purpose and structure of the Nat. Guard and improve it's readiness and mobilization capabilities.  But under is current structure, it's logistically impossible to mobilize a force primarily made up of reservists in a short amount of time.  The most logical solution would be to increase the amount of active duty guard members and have specifically trained units that are designed for immediate mobilization.  Of course, this would cost a bunch of money that would come out of the taxpayer's pocket so I'm not sure if they'd be willing to foot the bill on that one or not.

Having said all of that, the Nat. Guard aren't the ones to blame.  The level of blame is on a much higher and broader scope imo.   

I would never dream of blaming the people who choose to serve in the Guard.  Especially since my nephew may be joining them in the next few weeks.  :D

I know that there aren't any easy answers.  Maybe have a batallion of our home-based military do the "first alert" response, or something like that.  I am far from a military mind, but there has to be something that can be done to more quickly and effectively respond to something like Katrina than happened in New Orleans.

Hopefully the tragedy here will spur the leaders of the Gulf States and President Bush and his administration to make a better emergency plan.  It's about the best that can come out of this bleak situation:  a determination that something like New Orleans doesn't happen again.

Impeach Mother Nature.

Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 05, 2005, 06:23:28 PM

Quote from: Eagles76ersFan on September 05, 2005, 06:00:52 PM
Oh, and WTF is Japan doing? http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/04/katrina.world.aid/index.html

QuoteJapan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said. Japan also will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests, the ministry said.

Is that a joke? $200k from the second wealthiest country in the world when Nigeria is giving $1mm. We got shtein on for initially only offering $300mm in tsunami relief. Are they still pissed over that thing with those 2 atomic bombs 60 years ago?

I don't care if Japan is only offering $5.  It's still more money for the effort than what we've got now.  Now you're starting to sound like a spoiled little rich kid complaining about the brand new BMW you got for your 16th birthday because it didn't come with a 6 disc cd changer. 

Sure, they could offer more money.  A lot more money.  But the bottom line is that they don't have to offer shtein. 

Also, Japan is having their own problems with a hurricane right now.

Weather Underground (http://www.weatherunderground.com/tropical/tracking/wp200514.html)

Quote from: rjs246 on September 05, 2005, 07:49:04 PM
Impeach Mother Nature.

:-D  Can we knock off Father Time while we're at it? 

Man, don't even think that. He controls time. If you go after him he'll make it so you never existed, or stayed married to your ex.

:crazy  :crazy :crazy :crazy :crazy

Quote from: Diomedes on September 04, 2005, 12:21:32 PM
(http://www.repubblica.it/speciale/2005/dossier_katrina/popup/gallery3/11.gif)

Looks like big mama has enough food and water for her dog ::)

Is that a question mark on the floater?

Flags at the Phillies game were at half mast tonight. We saw it as we drove by the ballpark.

You sure that wasn't just for the Phillies suckage instead of Katrina?

Quote from: Diomedes on September 05, 2005, 10:41:50 AM
What I can't stomach is this persistence that somehow it was the red tape that caused the deaths, not the people in charge.  That's bullshtein. 

Red Tape (http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/04/katrina.sick.redtape.ap/index.html)

More Red Tape (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/05/katrina.lott/index.html)

Even more Red Tape (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9216376/)

You can blame the people in charge all you want, but you better go back a loooong way.

Effective leadership cuts red tape, bro.  Bush and the conservatives own this tragedy.  They have the executive, and the congress, and they're supposedly the "can do" people.  The buck stops with the president.  He put FEMA under Homeland Security.  He made appointments to these agencies based on politics, not qualifications.  He cut the budgets for flood and hurricane protection in LA every year since becoming president.  People are dead because of that.  He's the worst president this country has ever seen, and it's getting worse by the day.  As I've said earlier, it's time for some accountablility in this regime.  It's been one colossal farg up after another with Bush, none of which have been his fault according to him.  And no one has been fired.  It's time for personal responsibility to make a play on the scene.  Chertoff and Brown should be fired.  Bush should face impeachment charges. 

Worst.President.Ever

Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/foretold.asp) confirms what most of us know:  this was predicted, in detail, long ago.

And here's a survivor's account (http://icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icsouthport/news/tm_objectid=15936007%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26page=1%26headline=i%2dwaded%2din%2dfilth%2dto%2dbarricade%2dhotel%2ddoors-name_page.html) from a Brit..

QuoteAsked what assistance was offered to people stranded in the hotel, he replied: "Nothing. The only information we got from anybody in authority was if a policeman walked past and we shouted to them out of the windows.

"The only information we ever got off them was negative: Don't go here, don't go there. There was no 'Are you OK? Are you safe? Have you got water?'.

"I couldn't describe how bad the authorities were - just little things like taking photographs of us, as we are standing on the roof waving for help, for their own personal photo albums, little snapshot photographs.

"At one point, there were a load of girls on the roof of the lobby of the hotel saying 'Can you help us?' and the policemen said 'Show us what you've got' and made signs for them to lift their T-shirts.

"When they said no, they said 'fine' and motored off down the road in their motorboat."

The Scotts witnessed people, including hotel staff and guests, returning from looting sprees with mobile phones, radios and clothes which they attempted to sell to the stranded guests.

...

Mr Scott said: "I could not have a lower opinion of the authorities from the police officers on the street right up to George Bush.

"But I have a completely opposite view of the American people.

"There were so many random acts of kindness - people would go without so my son wouldn't go hungry.

"The American people saved us. I wish I could say the same for the American authorities. George Bush and his government left those people to die.

"The only person who seems to be trying to do anything is the Mayor of New Orleans and that man is banging his head against a brick wall.

"The US can't rescue their own people better than they can rescue people in the Third World. They didn't seem to care about their own people, mainly for economic and social reasons because the people worst-affected were poor and black."

Napalm.

followed closely by the moab.

beautiful

Performance art, Christo scale.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/SamiB/katrina-store-owner-looter-warn-no.jpg)

an ugly woman, classic!

That'll keep people out, guaraaaaaahnteed.

Quote
BREAKING NEWS
   
New Orleans flood waters contaminated with e. coli, official in office of Mayor Ray Nagin tells CNN. Details soon.

Yay! Pestilence!

Now it's time for napalm. Boiling that water should kill off all the bacteria, right?

In retrospect I'm glad the wife and I didn't book that trip to NO the weekend of Oct 1-2 as we'd initially planned.

So, how many of the four horsemen do we have now? If I'm going to have to repent I'm going to need a rather large head start...

a simple "sorry for everything" should be ok, that's the route i'm taking.

Yeah, that should move me up a ring or two at the very least...

I'm already in hell.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 06, 2005, 02:07:36 PM
I'm already in hell.

They have a high speed connection there?

Stop with the drama. Is NB at your door? Is he here? No. Live it up before you die.

Yep.  But you can't get anything worth reading.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 11:24:32 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/SamiB/katrina-store-owner-looter-warn-no.jpg)

That's what I'm talkin' about!

:bash :fire :flipoff

Quote from: General_Failure on September 06, 2005, 02:09:36 PM
Stop with the drama. Is NB at your door? Is he here? No. Live it up before you die.

Wouldn't it be great if he showed up at my door and killed me?  Y'all would have a big party, I hope.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 06, 2005, 02:19:53 PM

Quote from: General_Failure on September 06, 2005, 02:09:36 PM
Stop with the drama. Is NB at your door? Is he here? No. Live it up before you die.

Wouldn't it be great if he showed up at my door and killed me?  Y'all would have a big party, I hope.

Watching you beat him to death with a really heavy Bible would be funny, though.

:-D

Or a copy of The Bible for Dummies.

(http://65.254.58.82/~mattmcle/cartoons/dummies_bible.gif)

I am sooooo picking this up at the book store.

:-D

There's probably a CD on the back cover, too.

There's some outbreak in a shelter in Biloxi to. I forget what it was... something with a B.

Bubonic plague?

dysentery

That doesn't start with a B.

that's what the shelter has going on though.

Bysentary.

IHOP has a new Bysentary breakfast deal, don't they?

Quote from: General_Failure on September 06, 2005, 03:35:24 PM
IHOP has a new Bysentary breakfast deal, don't they?

No but I'm fairly certain enny's does...

:puke

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 03:27:54 PM
dysentery

That it? Thought they said something with a B, but maybe they were just rambling off other diseases they were worried about. I wasn't paying that much attention to it.

I read it earlier this morning.


http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/12555416.htm

I'm thankful NO wasn't hit by a certain Hurricane "Ditka." I can't imagine the devastation.

Botulism?

QuoteBREAKING NEWS
   
House Government Reform Committee will begin holding hearings next week into what went wrong in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. More soon.

how can something that has not happened, and wont happen for a few days be "breaking news"?

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 05:08:21 PM

QuoteBREAKING NEWS
   
House Government Reform Committee will begin holding hearings next week into what went wrong in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. More soon.

Oh, goody. 

Hopefully, they'll spend millions of dollars and waste hundreds of hours debating who was at fault, root out the scapegoats, (read: evil-doers) and then parade them in front of the nation in a useless display of grandstanding.

Can't wait.

Quote from: Wingspan on September 06, 2005, 05:12:27 PM
how can something that has not happened, and wont happen for a few days be "breaking news"?

The hurricane was news days before it hit land.

These were taken in the Garden District:

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/us/0509/gallery.nola.fires/08.patrol.ap.jpg)

(http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/us/0509/gallery.nola.fires/09.fire.closeup.ap.jpg)

Is that guy gonna shoot the fire? Don't they train these people? Yeesh.

those are really screen shots from the PS3. 

It's obviously from a movie trailer.

NFL stands by Kanye (http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20050907/en_music_eo/17304)

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 11:18:46 PM
NFL stands by Kanye (http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20050907/en_music_eo/17304)

:-D Yeah Kanye thats the ticket, and I guess George Bush stole the keys to all those school busses that your black mayor left in the parking lot to be flooded, instead of bussing out the people of N.O.! What a joke.

You're right. Its all the mayor's fault.

Well it's not all The presidents fault either, but never mind that, lets just call the president a racist, yeah doesn't that make you feel all warm inside Kanye?

My point was he does not look at any other person but the president, he just blurts that out like a two year old. Bush has plenty of explaining to do, especially why a horse show judge is heading FEMA, but there were breakdowns from the local Black and White Authorities, all the way to the top. But no one cares about that, why haven't we seen the picture of those busses plastered all over the media? Why have we not seen the City of New Orleans evacuation plan picked apart? everyone is passing the blame around, lets just make sure it hits everyone responsible.

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 11:35:28 PM
You're right. Its all the mayor's fault.

Withthat specific subject of the busses, whose fault is it then?

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 06, 2005, 11:45:29 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 11:35:28 PM
You're right. Its all the mayor's fault.

Withthat specific subject of the busses, whose fault is it then?

(http://home.comcast.net/~mr.write/wsfault.jpg)

Let's start at the top.

Quote from: SD_Eagle on September 06, 2005, 11:49:26 PM

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 06, 2005, 11:45:29 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 11:35:28 PM
You're right. Its all the mayor's fault.

Withthat specific subject of the busses, whose fault is it then?

(http://home.comcast.net/~mr.write/wsfault.jpg)

Let's start at the top.

:-D

Awsome picture.

link (http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197)

What a mess.

Quote

"They've got people here who are search-and-rescue certified, paramedics, haz-mat certified," said a Texas firefighter. "We're sitting in here having a sexual-harassment class while there are still [victims] in Louisiana who haven't been contacted yet."
    The firefighter, who has encouraged his superiors back home not to send any more volunteers for now, declined to give his name because FEMA has warned them not to talk to reporters.

....

Roy Fire Chief Jon Ritchie said his crews would be a "little frustrated" if they were assigned to hand out phone numbers at an evacuee center in Texas rather than find and treat victims of the disaster.
    Also of concern to some of the firefighters is the cost borne by their municipalities in the wake of their absence. Cities are picking up the tab to fill the firefighters' vacancies while they work 30 days for the federal government.
    "There are all of these guys with all of this training and we're sending them out to hand out a phone number," an Oregon firefighter said. "They [the hurricane victims] are screaming for help and this day [of FEMA training] was a waste."
    Firefighters say they want to brave the heat, the debris-littered roads, the poisonous cottonmouth snakes and fire ants and travel into pockets of Louisiana where many people have yet to receive emergency aid.
    But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

I just threw up a little lot in my mouth.

I wish I could still get upset/be shocked by the priorities of our politicians in times of crisis.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 07, 2005, 08:21:22 AM

Quote
Roy Fire Chief Jon Ritchie

well, at least he found work after being cut by the birds

Sadly, this is not out of the "norm".  A couple years ago, my parents were stuck in a forest fire in Oregon, and there were several dozen firefighters in their town that had to go through the sexual harassment training before they could go fight the fire.  :-\

Quote from: Butchers Bill on September 07, 2005, 08:29:34 AM
Sadly, this is not out of the "norm".  A couple years ago, my parents were stuck in a forest fire in Oregon, and there were several dozen firefighters in their town that had to go through the sexual harassment training before they could go fight the fire.  :-\

I don't know why I found that hilarious but I have to admit that I did.

Quote from: phillymic2000 on September 06, 2005, 11:45:29 PMWith that specific subject of the busses, whose fault is it then?

Times Picayune (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08.html#074549) (Aug. 28th)

QuoteMayor Nagin issues mandatory evacuation for New Orleans

As of 9:30 a.m., Mayor Nagin has issued a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans.

The Superdome has been opened for people with special needs and as a shelter of last resort. Residents should call (504) 568-3200 to reserve space in this shelter.

The city has set up ten pickup areas to take people to emergency shelters. RTA buses will be picking up citizens for free and take them to these shelters. The number to call for pickup areas is 1-800-469-4828.

The pickup locations are

McMain High: 5712 S Claiborne Ave New Orleans, LA 70125

Rabouin High:727 Carondelet St New Orleans, LA 70130

Mondy George O Elementary: 2327 Philip St New Orleans, LA 70113

O.P. Walker: 2832 General Meyer Ave New Orleans, LA 70114

Abramson: 5552 Read Blvd New Orleans, LA 70127

S.T. Reed : 5316 Michoud Blvd New Orleans, LA 70129

Sylvain Williams: 3127 Martin L. King Blvd. New Orleans, LA. 70125

Augustine Middle:425 S. Broad St. New Orleans, LA. 70119

Warren Easton: 3039 Higgins Blvd. New Orleans, LA. 70126

MLK Jr. Elementary: 1617 Caffin Avenue New Orleans, LA 70117

N.O. Mission, address not available at time of publish.

Mondy Center, address not available at time of publish.

William Franz , address not available at time of publish.

Residents are asked to bring food for 3-5 days, pillows, blankets, and any other supplies needed.

Would the buses you're talking about be the ones Nagin had for this plan?  I'm having a hard time seeing how Nagin is the bad guy here.  He's been working the whole time.  That can't be said for Bush, Cheney, Rice, or FEMA.

The conservative talk radio in Boston has been blasting Nagin and saying that he's 'no Rudy Guiliani'... why? Because he called for help from a federal government that was doing nothing? I'm pretty sure that if NYC had been left to rot for 5 days after 9/11 Guiliani would have been spitting fire and shteinting bullets and calling out the administration too. Political commentators can eat the corn out of my shtein.

Quote from: rjs246 on September 07, 2005, 08:54:30 AM
The conservative talk radio in Boston has been blasting Nagin and saying that he's 'no Rudy Guiliani'... why? Because he called for help from a federal government that was doing nothing? I'm pretty sure that if NYC had been left to rot for 5 days after 9/11 Guiliani would have been spitting fire and shteinting bullets and calling out the administration too. Political commentators can eat the corn out of my shtein.

I heard that same thing the other day and just about drove off the road.

Speaking of right-wing smear factories, FauxNews has been at it for days now.

Man, it's like the Goebbels propaganda machine working on all eights anymore.  They don't even try to hide their blind allegiance to BushCorp. any longer.

:-\

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 07, 2005, 08:55:10 AM

I heard that same thing the other day and just about drove off the road.

I just turned the channel and listened to some really bad hip hop on a station who's musical director is a goofy Italian dude that I play poker against. He should be fired.

I have a better conspiracy.   Bush waited to do anything so this all blew up and took away all coverage of Karl Rove and Valerie Plame. 

word.

My theory is that Bush doesn't like boobies and wanted New Orleans to just go away so that his friends would stop emailing him pictures of his daughters making out with each other on Bourbon Street.

Please note: this theory is rock solid.

holla!

Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp) on the buses that Bush apologists point to as some kind of proof that Nagin hates America.

in other news (http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/news/4887230/detail.html)

QuoteKatrina Confusion: Right City Name, Wrong State

Emergency officials in South Carolina are scratching their heads over some post-Katrina confusion.

Dozens of medical workers rushed to a hangar in Charleston, S.C., Tuesday, to prepare for 180 injured evacuees. But the evacuees' flight was actually headed to Charleston, W.Va. It was the second time the federal government told South Carolina officials to be ready for a plane full of people, only to have it end up hundreds of miles away.

No one's been able to explain the confusion so far.

A triage unit to evaluate patients will be kept at the Charleston Air Force Base through the week because officials think injured evacuees will eventually make it to the city along South Carolina's coast.

Quote from: Jerome99RIP on September 07, 2005, 08:59:10 AM
Speaking of right-wing smear factories, FauxNews has been at it for days now.

Man, it's like the Goebbels propaganda machine working on all eights anymore.  They don't even try to hide their blind allegiance to BushCorp. any longer.

:-\

:-D

Aren't you the one who likes to bitch when people talk about "left" and "right".  Have you heard any of the "lefts" rants on the NOLA issue??  If they could, they would blame Bush for making the hurricane happening and manipulating the jet stream to push it directly towards New Orleans.

All the pundits, left and right, can suck my sack on this one.  Everyone farged this up, left, right, local, state, and federal. 

I just call 'em like I see 'em Bill.   :P

I agree that everyone is to blame in this fiasco and that Bush and his cronies are no more or less at fault than any other governmental agency in this instance.

:)

More proof everyone (left and right) was at fault:

Clinton cut aid to NOLA too (http://http//www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46132)

Quote
A $120 million hurricane project, approved and financed annually from 1965 was killed by the Clinton administration after being approved by the Army Corps of Engineers. It was designed to protect more than 140,000 West Bank residents east of the Harvey Canal.

Typical Bush apologist, pointing at Clinton.  You know, he got a blow job, too.

Bush is in charge, has been for five years.  His party has held congress the entire time.  Bush appointed unqualified people, based on their political allegience to his regime and ideology, to lead FEMA.   Bush cut funding five years running.  Bush vacationed while the worst natural disaster in U.S. history, and the most collosal failure of government, tore away at the south.  Where does the buck stop? 

With the president.

Or so it should.  Under Bush, the buck stops with the scapegoat...invariably the lowest possible official or troop in the line of fire.  Abu Graib?  isolated incidents (lots of them), all because of lowly people disobeying.  Plame?  Nothing to do with anyone important, some low level aid must have....  Faulty intel re: Iraq...not the guys in charge.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.  But we can't count on our leader to bear the weight.  He's completely incompetent.

Quote from: Diomedes on September 07, 2005, 10:56:35 AM
Typical Bush apologist, pointing at Clinton.  You know, he got a blow job, too.

Point to ONE post in this thread where I said that Bush was innocent in this mess...wait I'll save you some time...it doesn't farging exist.

YOU sir, are the one who has continually brought up the funding situation with Bush and NOLA, pointing to it as a possible cause of at least some of the devastation, and even as a reason for his impeachment!  I am simply pointing out that the lack of funding has been going on for much more than the past 5 years, but that doesn't fall in your agenda does it Dio?  You have your pink panties all in a bunch because you think you finally have "him" dont you?  You can wail all you want about Bush, and he has plenty of blood on his hands with this, but to blindly attack him while frothing at the mouth weakens your agruments.

You have been reading too much DU lately.  Any luck on re-opening the JFK assassination investigation?  (For those who don't read the DU, they believe that GWB the First was not only complicit in the JFK assassination, but present at the scene as well).

Froth froth froth. 

You two need a timeout.  Now go sit in the corner.  :P

Quote from: Sgt PSN on September 07, 2005, 12:47:58 PM
You two need a timeout. Now go sit in the corner. :P

Okay.  I had my time out, mom.  Can I go back to my game now?

Speaking of those crazy patriots at DU, here's an interesting link about the Bush regime I just picked up over there, thanks for the tip Joel!  Turns out the top three FEMA bosses boast only ties to Bush and the GOP as qualifications for their life and death responsibilities.

NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/344004p-293718c.html)

QuoteFEMA packed with W's pals
Campaign pros get top jobs

By KENNETH R. BAZINET
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON - The three top jobs at the Federal Emergency Management Agency under President Bush went to political cronies with no apparent experience coping with catastrophes, the Daily News has learned.

Even if Bush were to fire embattled and suddenly invisible FEMA Director Michael Brown over his handling of Hurricane Katrina, the bureaucrat immediately below him is no disaster professional, either.

While Brown ran horse shows in his last private-sector job, FEMA's No. 2 man, deputy director and chief of staff Patrick Rhode, was an advance man for the Bush-Cheney campaign and White House. He also did short stints at the Commerce Department and Small Business Administration.

Rhode's biography posted on FEMA's Web site doesn't indicate he has any real experience in emergency response.

In addition, the agency's former third-ranking official, deputy chief of staff Scott Morris, was a PR expert who worked for Maverick Media, the Texas outfit that produced TV and radio spots for the Bush-Cheney campaign. In June, Morris moved to Florida to become FEMA's long-term recovery director.

"The Bush administration has apparently transformed FEMA from a professional, world-class emergency responder into a dumping ground for former campaign staff and political hacks," said Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-Manhattan).

So let me get this straight..the top 3 guys at FEMA have no emergency qualifications, but they do have lots of ties to GOP fundraising? Something's fishy here.  Or am I just repeating a wild commie consipracy theory?  Maybe it's very hard to be a horse judge?  Maybe being an "advance man" for a campaign IS comparable to saving lives in an emergency?

It's Bush's government, those are his guys, and these are the results.  We've seen the same utter failure in Iraq.  But since the poor dark people who die there aren't Americans, people don't care.  Well, now the poor dark people dying are our own, and some people DO care about them, even some repuglicans.  Not Bush, clearly.  Unless the camera is rolling.  Kayne was right about that.

Impeach!

/froth froth froth

My questions is this. If Dio and BB were locked in a room for an hour, how many poo-babies would result?

I'd have to go with 7.

It's not as if impeachment is a big deal anymore.

Yeah, who even needs articles?  Just do it!

I'm all for impeaching Bush if there are grounds to do so.  Extra bonus if he resigns.

I'm a sadist.  I'd love to see Cheney in the Oval Office for a couple of years.  We've tried stupid; let's try evil.

Gratuitous Catherine Bell Photo Break...

(http://www.skullsnaps.com/Catherine_Bell_-_Grey_Bikini_Pic_06.jpg)

:drool

Are those tits pasted onto her chest with stick 'um?  Christ, they look like balloons.  :puke

They're 100% real, Dio.

No plastic for her.

;)

If that's true, the photo doesn't do them justice.  They look fake. 

Quote from: Diomedes on September 07, 2005, 03:07:45 PM
If that's true, the photo doesn't do them justice.  They look fake. 

Agreed.  Heavy air-brushing on the left boob, it would seem.

I think the one side has that look because she's pushing it toward the center of her chest a bit.

Never heard of push-up bras, huh ladies?

:-*

Trust me, them puppies is real.  Just do a Google image search with your SafeSearch off.  You'll see.

:-[

Quote from: Diomedes on September 07, 2005, 01:37:04 PM
Okay.  I had my time out, mom.  Can I go back to my game now?

Of course you can.  Now run along dear and do try to be a good little libbie.  ;)

Quote from: rjs246 on September 07, 2005, 01:40:58 PM
My questions is this. If Dio and BB were locked in a room for an hour, how many poo-babies would result?

I'd have to go with 7.

That gives me an idea.  Now I'm not a big fan of "reality tv" but I beleive I would pay money to see a show featuring those 2 as roommates.  Or better yet, stranded on an island or something.  That would be quality entertainment.   :)

You guys are talking about Bell's weird looking funbags, but what about the face she's making. She's hot, but that picture is for shtein.

Well, I didn't figure anyone was looking at her face.  Next you'll want to talk about what she thinks!

With her flapbags looking like that I figured everyone would be begging to look at her face. Clearly, I was wrong.

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050908/capt.sge.fta34.080905001718.photo01.photo.default-380x253.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=Pao49JZMRVeDjiY3OGvrTg--)

Caption from Yahoo:

QuoteA sign is scrawled beneath a statue of Jesus Christ as a warning to looters in New Orleans. Bacteria in contaminated water has killed five people rescued from Hurricane Katrina, officials said, adding a worrying new dimension to the disaster.(AFP/Hector Mata)

Tulane baseball or softball field:

(http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050908/capt.ladp12509080016.hurricane_katrina_ladp125.jpg?x=380&y=212&sig=f.1jbuHollRpez7XBi1_EQ--)

Moor proof that Jesus is farging metal.

10 days later, the Veep shows up and pats the back of the oustanding efforts (http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/08/Katrina.cheney.ap/index.html)

Finally got the door to his crypt open I see...

QuoteCheney was also accompanied by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

That's a winning team for you.

The codest spot in the IRS north building in Philly is right in front of the picture of his crooked-ass grin. I can't explain it, but I get chills when I walk by it.

Quote from: FFatPatt on September 08, 2005, 03:56:18 PM

QuoteCheney was also accompanied by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

That's a winning team for you.

I wish one of the residents of the area would have thrown Chertoff into the floodwater.

Out of those 3 guys, he's honestly the one you'd most like to see in the diseased floodwater?  Really?

Quote from: FFatPatt on September 08, 2005, 04:06:55 PM
Out of those 3 guys, he's honestly the one you'd most like to see in the diseased floodwater?  Really?

After his comments last week? Yes. Right now, yes.

Someone nearby shouted "Go farg yourself, Mr. Cheney" twice.  The live feed picked it up, it was clearly heard on CNN.  It's available all over the internets now.  Cheney said something like.."must be a friend of John's" in retort.   As in John Kerry I guess?  Who was it he said "go farg yourself" to in the Senate anyway?   I don't recall.

John McCain maybe?

Nah.  He told a democrat to go farg himself, not a republican.

I love the brazenness of people to just scream 'go farg yourself' at the Vice President of the US. It cracks me up.

link (http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman/publish/article_18337.shtml#top)

Quotenote: Bradshaw and Slonsky are paramedics frorm California that were attending the EMS conference in New Orleans. Larry Bradsahw is the chief shop steward, Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790; and Lorrie Beth Slonsky  is steward, Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790.[California]

Good read.  Difficulty: by "good" I don't mean it ends "...and they lived happily ever after."

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 06, 2005, 11:24:32 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/SamiB/katrina-store-owner-looter-warn-no.jpg)

His now updated warning and comment:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/SamiB/katrina-store-warning-sign-updated.jpg)

http://www.nearlygood.com/video/foamykatrina.html

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

The Onion's headline is irreverent as usual.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/40305

Quote
God Outdoes Terrorists Yet Again
September 7, 2005 | Issue 41•36

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 08, 2005, 05:18:13 PM
http://www.nearlygood.com/video/foamykatrina.html

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

I posted that pages ago. ::)

Awesome, I suck.

:P

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 08, 2005, 05:41:07 PM
Awesome, I suck.

:P

Anything else in the news?

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 08, 2005, 05:41:07 PM
Awesome, I suck.

:P

Boy, you're just getting it from all sides today.

Quote from: TexasEagle on September 08, 2005, 06:38:24 PM

Quote from: PhillyGirl on September 08, 2005, 05:41:07 PM
Awesome, I suck.

:P

Boy, you're just getting it from all sides today.

I care about as much as I care about the Arizona Cardinals.

QuoteReports: FEMA Top Managers Had Little Experience

POSTED: 8:02 am EDT September 9, 2005
UPDATED: 8:17 am EDT September 9, 2005

Reports on Friday allege FEMA director Michael Brown's biography misstated his experience, while five top FEMA officials had no disaster-management experience.

NBC News said Friday morning that Time Magazine is reporting that Brown's official biography states he had emergency-management experience in the late 1980s in Oklahoma, when in fact he served in an intern-like capacity there a decade earlier.

The Washington Post also reported on Friday that five of FEMA's eight top officials had virtually no disaster-management experience when they took their jobs with the agency.

Brown and FEMA are under intense criticism for their delayed response to Hurricane Katrina, particularly in New Orleans.

Brown's biography on FEMA's Web site says he served as "assistant city manager with emergency services oversight" in Edmond, Okla.

But Time reporter Carolina Miranda told NBC News this morning said Brown was an assistant to the city manager in the late 1970s, a role on par with an intern.

It is unknown who wrote and approved the biography.

FEMA has issued a statement saying that some elements in the Time report were inaccurate.

Brown was named as FEMA's top lawyer in 2001 and became director in 2003.

The Washington Post's report said that FEMA's top three leaders had ties to President Bush's 2000 presidential campaign or the White House advance operation.

Two other senior operational jobs are filled by the former Republican lieutenant governor of Nebraska and a U.S. Chamber of Commerce official.

Copyright 2005 by NBC10.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten