with this story all over the map the last many months im interested to see the pulse of the board...and where everyone stands as of now
assuming he doesnt get hurt...how many non-preseason games does TO ever play again for the eagles
we have three answers
A. zero: never plays again
B. a number <16
C. 16
a small explanation of your answer is encouraged
im also interested to see where every stands as far as what theyd like the eagles to do with him at this point
Why are you starting another thread on TO? :-D
i believe that is explained above
but if the mods dont like it perhaps they could replace it with another 'how does bergeron look at camp' thread
TO owns all right now
burgeron looks like this:
(http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/DEDMDEMJMKPB/headshot05bergeron.jpg)
and i guess i'll go with a number < 16....i think he'll eventually play for the eagles this season & possibly miss a game or 2 due to injury.
I was confident that he'd play this year, but I'm not so sure right now. And I'm not sure if I want him back. And I'm one of his fans...
I really think that the Eagles will suspend him indefinitley...
So I say less than 16 games
hunt you really think he plays all games this year where hes healthy...in other worsds reid lets him back TO behaves all year and plays a 'normal' season
I'd like to go on the record as saying Catherine Bell is just slightly less hot than Jessica Alba.
To wit:
(http://www.caingram.info/Models_2/Catherine_bell.jpg)
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 11, 2005, 08:48:18 AM
hunt you really think he plays all games this year where hes healthy...in other worsds reid lets him back TO behaves all year and plays a 'normal' season
nah...i said less than 16.
he'll miss some games, possibly to injury...possibly due to being keyshawned. he won't behave, that you can take to the bank.
Was anyone else listening to Mike & Mike this morning? Greenberg basically said the Eagles are the Titanic whose chances of winning the Super Bowl are sunk without T.O. Of course, fat Mark Schlereth piped in and said the Eagles won't even make the Super Bowl this year with T.O. or without him.
What struck me was, how positively giddy they sounded discussing the Eagles troubles.
Haters abound, I'm afraid, and now they're all coming out of the woodwork.
PS: Please add Greenberg to the list of people I'd like to punch in the fargin face.
Quote from: jerome99RIP on August 11, 2005, 08:59:19 AM
Was anyone else listening to Mike & Mike this morning? Greenberg basically said the Eagles are the Titanic whose chances of winning the Super Bowl are sunk without T.O. Of course, fat Mark Schlereth piped in and said the Eagles won't even make the Super Bowl this year with T.O. or without him.
What struck me was, how positively giddy they sounded discussing the Eagles troubles.
Haters abound, I'm afraid, and now they're all coming out of the woodwork.
PS: Please add Greenberg to the list of people I'd like to punch in the fargin face.
I said this yesterday while watching NFL LIve. It was the same thing. I though Salisbury and Schlereth would start jerking off over the fact that the Eagles had some troubles. They went as far as to say that Dallas would dethrone the Eagles now that they have a better WR corps, better defense and a QB that can win games (yes, I am serious, they said that)....and that the Eagles were crumbling from within...lol
I'll go on record right now and say once again that I don't want him on this team. Cut him. Tradde him. Shoot him. Whatever. Get him gone. Let the Reggie Brown era start if needs be. Win 11 games instead of 13. I don't care. Get him out of here.
i do think bell is hotter then alba, take that!
Quote from: T_Section224 on August 11, 2005, 09:05:13 AM
i do think bell is hotter then alba, take that!
You're dead to me.
rjs: The problem is, if they trade or release him, their cap gets seriously farged up, and considering they have more pressing concerns in terms of signing guys (Westbrook, Mike Lewis, etc) to extensions, they're going to need every cap dollar they can get their hands on.
I agree, T. I think she's hotter too. I lied.
A. Released Sept. 8th.
For the 400th time. They are not going to trade or release TO, so even using it in a hypothetical sense is pointless.
Quote from: rjs246 on August 11, 2005, 09:06:45 AM
Quote from: T_Section224 on August 11, 2005, 09:05:13 AM
i do think bell is hotter then alba, take that!
You're dead to me.
Anyone else watch the show "Dead Like Me?" Great show and Showtime goes and cancels it. farging idiots.
:boom
Quote from: jerome99RIP on August 11, 2005, 09:09:07 AM
Quote from: rjs246 on August 11, 2005, 09:06:45 AM
Quote from: T_Section224 on August 11, 2005, 09:05:13 AM
i do think bell is hotter then alba, take that!
You're dead to me.
Anyone else watch the show "Dead Like Me?" Great show and Showtime goes and cancels it. farging idiots.
:boom
Was my favorite show. FF and I blabbed about that show last year. Showtime is a bunch of mindless fargers.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 11, 2005, 09:08:23 AM
For the 400th time. They are not going to trade or release TO, so even using it in a hypothetical sense is pointless.
Skippy disagrees with you.
Just sayin'...
:-D
He plays less than 16 games, maybe none.
I'd like to see him benched for the season. Put him on the Non-Football related injury list for fatal attitude disorder and let him twist slowly in the wind. Cut him. Trade him. I don't care which route, so long as he never plays another down wearing Philadelphia colors.
Quote from: jerome99RIP on August 11, 2005, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 11, 2005, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: jerome99RIP on August 11, 2005, 09:10:06 AM
Skippy disagrees with you.
Good.
<scared> Even Woody is agreeing with Skippy... </really scared>
:-\
Woody is just as bad. Are you watching that show? Seriously? LMFAO
Quote from: jerome99RIP on August 11, 2005, 08:59:19 AM
Was anyone else listening to Mike & Mike this morning? Greenberg basically said the Eagles are the Titanic whose chances of winning the Super Bowl are sunk without T.O. Of course, fat Mark Schlereth piped in and said the Eagles won't even make the Super Bowl this year with T.O. or without him.
What struck me was, how positively giddy they sounded discussing the Eagles troubles.
Haters abound, I'm afraid, and now they're all coming out of the woodwork.
PS: Please add Greenberg to the list of people I'd like to punch in the fargin face.
so?
how is that any different than people here grave dancing on the cowboys, or taterskins? or the comment on bobby taylor? or freddie mitchell?
i dont see the difference.
we just dont like it because it's the eagles.
The difference is, I'm an Eagles fan and tend to take shtein-talking about the team by media hacks personally.
And as PG noted, it's not just Greenberg & Schlereth either. What I find interesting is the degree of loathing expressed by supposed disinterested parties when it comes to the Eagles. Why does Hoge appear to hate them so intensely? Or Salisbury, or Theismann, or any other number of "journalists" for that matter.
I just find it curious. That's all.
:)
simply (my opinion) is that because they have won for so long and so consistantly.
everyone loves the underdog. and the eagles havent been underdogs in 4 years now.
That might explain why they're rooting for another team to displace the Eagles but it doesn't explain their seeming hatred for the Birds.
Quote from: jerome99RIP on August 11, 2005, 08:59:19 AM
Was anyone else listening to Mike & Mike this morning? Greenberg basically said the Eagles are the Titanic whose chances of winning the Super Bowl are sunk without T.O. Of course, fat Mark Schlereth piped in and said the Eagles won't even make the Super Bowl this year with T.O. or without him.
What struck me was, how positively giddy they sounded discussing the Eagles troubles.
Haters abound, I'm afraid, and now they're all coming out of the woodwork.
PS: Please add Greenberg to the list of people I'd like to punch in the fargin face.
I was in the car when Greenberg came on and he must of said at least 5 times in the first minute that the Eagles were done, His opening statement was something like this. Dallas, Washington, and N.Y. get ready to win the division, cause the Eagles are done. He was loving every minute of it. I am now excited we are being written off, so once again The Eagle will ride high, win the division and get over the hump this year. This whole incident yeaterday has me jacked about the Eagles going out and winning it all this year, bring it on!!!!!!!
its amazing how much one player can drain the excitement out of an upcoming season. really right now with all this bullshtein, i really could care less about the eagles. i just want the god-damn season to start and get passed all this. If hes gonna be a fargin scab all year then pick the farger off. :win
The Eagles were supposed to be finished when McNabb got hurt 2 years ago. They were supposed to be finished when T.O. got hurt last year. They were supposed to be one and done when Westbrook got hurt, when Hugh left for Jacksonville, when Bobby & Troy left for parts unknown, when Shawn Barber left for K.C., when Emmons & Mitchell high-tailed it to the vaGiants... on and on it goes... yet somehow, they've managed to appear in the NFCCG four straight years and compile the best record in the NFL during this decade.
Apparently, the word "resilience" isn't in the haters' vocabulary. They can all go farg themselves, for all I care.
I'll go on record right fargin now and say the Eagles are going to win the Super Bowl in Detroit next February whether Owens is on the team or not. It's our farging turn, dammit, and anyone who has a problem with that can see me outside in the parking lot.
:-D
PS: Please add Greenberg to the list of people I'd like to punch in the fargin face.
and add the TO comments to the list of reasons why greenberg should be punched in the face
TO is gone...kaput...dead...done...over with the eagles...he will not play for them again
the question now is how to do it in terms of being as monotarily advantageous to the team and screwing TO all at the same time
I think Owens, baring injury, will play the entire season. Once again, what people fail to realize, is that the Eagles hold all the cards as usual. If TO acts up the Eagles can take back part of his signing bonus, fine him, sit him, do whatever they want. If TO wants to sit all year he isnt going to be getting paid, which in the end, is his goal anyway. The fact that TO is a "me first" type of guy pretty much garuntees he will be back following Reids rules, so he can collect his cash.
Quote from: MURP on August 11, 2005, 10:13:45 AM
I think Owens, baring injury, will play the entire season. Once again, what people fail to realize, is that the Eagles hold all the cards as usual. If TO acts up the Eagles can take back part of his signing bonus, fine him, sit him, do whatever they want. If TO wants to sit all year he isnt going to be getting paid, which in the end, is his goal anyway. The fact that TO is a "me first" type of guy pretty much garuntees he will be back following Reids rules, so he can collect his cash.
No wonder I married you. ;)
:puke
my main question is this...other than not show up what does TO have to do for the eagles to have grounds to suspend him without pay...because cant he come back and be a total dick to the point where it pisses off and disrupts the team but not so much so that he can have money taken from him
thus the eagles could suspend him but it would be with pay...which is what TO wants...he knows hes not getting more money from the team so at this point i believe hes trying to get sent home but with his 3.5 mil in tow
id like to know the rules or scenarios where the eagles can send him home and not pay him
apparently the Eagles put clauses in his contract in which they could fine TO a lot of cash if he caused problems. Im not sure anyone outside of the primary people involved like Banner know the exact rules... but im sure if TO chose to be a big internal distraction for a long period of time they could get money back from him. Which obviously would not make it beneficial for Owens to be a prick at all times.
of course i dont know what the contract says but im guessing it holds a continent sized grey area...an area that would be happily fought over by rosenhaus and the union..
im also quite sure rosenhaus has gone over it with a fine tooth comb and has told To how far he can and cant go
and because of this i belive the eagles should and will have to just suspend him with pay...and they should do that now...end all this garbage and move on
I hear ya Murp, but he's been insubordinate to the coaches in front of the team, which is extremely destructive behavior. If we can believe what's been reported [just go along for the sake of the point], he's been very careful to walk just within the lines of what's allowed under his contract, which might be why the Eagles were careful not to use "Suspend" in their statement yesterday...as has been reported, a suspension could force an appeal from TO's side, which the Eagles want to avoid.
If the Eagles take back the $1 mil + roster bonus from last season, wouldn't they need to make him a FA to do so? I haven't seen anything written about that point.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 11, 2005, 10:27:35 AM
of course i dont know what the contract says but im guessing it holds a continent sized grey area...an area that would be happily fought over by rosenhaus and the union..
im also quite sure rosenhaus has gone over it with a fine tooth comb and has told To how far he can and cant go
of course that is just as much speculation as saying that Ried and Banner know exactly when/what/how much to fine TO if need be.
We will probably never know either side of it.
He will play for us this year. Regardless of how much of an ass he is, he's still one of the best WR in football. Guys who have been on the Eagles for the last few Super Bowl runs realize that they need him to get there and they must, by now, expect TO to be a douche.
I'd be fine if they never let him practice with the team, made him workout on his own, and then just let him start on Sundays. He'll still be the best WR on the field.
B
of course that is just as much speculation as saying that Ried and Banner know exactly when/what/how much to fine TO if need be
this is irrelevant though because TO can act up to a certain point for free...where as the eagles can only fine TO after a certain point...TO owns the area btwn acting normal to being fined...in essence he controls what reid and company can and cant do to him
do the eagles really wanna play chicken with him...negatively effect the team for who knows how long just to take the chance they can eventually fine him...i dont think so...which is why i believe he will be gone sooner rather than later
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 11, 2005, 10:36:52 AM
this is irrelevant though because TO can act up to a certain point for free...where as the eagles can only fine TO after a certain point..
I agree, but we have no idea what that point is. I mean, the clause wasnt put in there for no reason. They knew what they were getting into in the first place or it wouldnt have been an issue.
I think both sides are well aware of "it" Its a fargin pissing contest and TOs up shtein creek. :paranoid
wow...i just saw TO's interview on PTI & i'm officially changing my vote to zero games.
he's outta here.
Quote from: mhunt on August 11, 2005, 06:04:15 PM
wow...i just saw TO's interview on PTI & i'm officially changing my vote to zero games.
he's outta here.
What he said. How long til there is an organized TO jersey burning .....
This isn't what I want, just looking that way.
Quote from: MURP on August 11, 2005, 10:13:45 AM
I think Owens, baring injury, will play the entire season. Once again, what people fail to realize, is that the Eagles hold all the cards as usual. If TO acts up the Eagles can take back part of his signing bonus, fine him, sit him, do whatever they want. If TO wants to sit all year he isnt going to be getting paid, which in the end, is his goal anyway. The fact that TO is a "me first" type of guy pretty much garuntees he will be back following Reids rules, so he can collect his cash.
Yeah, the Eagles hold all the cards, but I don't think the poor bastich can help himself. I can see him causing a seen on the sidelines with Ried and the coaches or even with DMac. I can see him saying to the media halfway through the season that he ain't getting the ball enough because the Eagles don't want to have to pay him. Like last year when he was going after McNabb, and then the next game they made fun of it. It ain't gonna' be made fun of this year. I just don't think he can keep his mouth shut or keep from doing anything outrageously stupid, money or not. I hope I'm wrong.
I can also see him catching 15 TD's and helping us win a Superbowl. If he'll just shut up and play. He's mad at the Eagles for not paying him what he's worth, but the real dumbass here is TO for signing the contract that Reid said was a bad deal for him in the first place.
He's really turning out to be a major tool, but if he shuts up and plays and takes up back to the Superbowl it will all be worth it to me. I don't care what he does at camp or says to the coaches, fans or whoever, long as he doesn't run over anyone, threaten them with a gun, smack his woman or walk off the field early before the game is over.
16 games, blows up during game when he was open and DMac failed to get him the ball/Big Red not calling his number enough, Big media circus/blitz follows.
Quote from: PhillyGirl on August 11, 2005, 10:16:03 AM
Quote from: MURP on August 11, 2005, 10:13:45 AM
I think Owens, baring injury, will play the entire season. Once again, what people fail to realize, is that the Eagles hold all the cards as usual. If TO acts up the Eagles can take back part of his signing bonus, fine him, sit him, do whatever they want. If TO wants to sit all year he isnt going to be getting paid, which in the end, is his goal anyway. The fact that TO is a "me first" type of guy pretty much garuntees he will be back following Reids rules, so he can collect his cash.
No wonder I married you. ;)
Stop it, you're making me weepy... :P
I don't think he will play here again but if he does.....I will say that he will play the first few games because they are against ATL, SF, and Oak. All of those games will have special meaning to TO. After that something will happen and he will blow up probably causing a season long suspension.
After all this I still think he is going to play. Eventually someone will beat the sense into him.
I change my mind. :-D
TO won't be traded or waived. He'll be thrown into a Terry Glenn purgatory of suspensions & fines; he won't play for us or anyone in 2005, maybe even ever again. He does have one more chance for redemption next week, but knowing his personality, he'll blow it.
The chances are greater you'll see him playing semi-pro basketball than pro football.
Him and Trotter are gonna take over professional dodgeball.
Quote from: mhunt on August 11, 2005, 06:04:15 PM
wow...i just saw TO's interview on PTI & i'm officially changing my vote to zero games.
he's outta here.
I still don't believe I saw what I saw. :o
I can see him causing a seen on the sidelines with Ried and the coaches or even with DMac
no you cant cause he will never be on a sideline with reid or donovan again
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 12, 2005, 07:47:01 AM
I can see him causing a seen on the sidelines with Ried and the coaches or even with DMac
no you cant cause he will never be on a sideline with reid or donovan again
I am starting to agree with your statement IGY, the interview he did last night reminded me of the way a junior high school kid would think and act. What a moron.
it was pretty clear from the minute reid sent him home from camp that it was all over
the week suspension thing is just posturing...the birds dont wanna look like they are overreacting and being unreasonable..which is why i think they are loving what TO did last night...rosenhaus is making a big mistake by letting him talk like he did...now it looks like not only did he plan the whole training camp insubordination but he also all but said hes going to be the same way come wednesday...its gives the eagles a ton of leverage
When TO dragged Donovan into this, he went too far. I believe the FO is now looking at how to send a very large and non-negotiable message to the world about who is in charge. If I were them, I would not pay him, not release just let him twist on the end ot the rope as long as possible even if its for two or three years. I think they may give him one more chance to shut up and play, but they will tighten the leash. If he acts up one more time, he is done and you will never see him in an Eagles uniform again. I'm betting he plays no games this year based on where things stand right now.
If I were them, I would not pay him, not release just let him twist on the end ot the rope as long as possible even if its for two or three years.
in a perfect world for us TO haters this would be lovely...but realistically i dont see anyway it would ever happen...if the birds did this then you have almost daily pressers by TO thruout the season...definitely during halftime of every eagle game...you will have grievances and lawsuits filed against the birds...and anytime any of the above happens you got a media circus in the eagles locker room and at novacare
i dont see reid going thru all that
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 12, 2005, 09:07:16 AM
in a perfect world for us TO haters this would be lovely...
But that's the way it has to be. The Eagles opened pandora's box - starting with Trotter (removing the franchise tag) and continuing with Welbourn and Bitchell - letting them talk their way off the team. They have established the precedent that if a player wants free agency, all they need to do is bitch and whine to the press. The only way they can hope to stop the trend is to end TO's career.
It must stop here. Contracts need to matter, and players need to shut the farg up and play, or this entire sport will go in the tank. If the CBA isn't fair, then it should be re-negotiated (even the owners will want to re-negotiate it before it expires because the salary cap goes away in the next year or two).
Shut the farg up and play, or go the hell home.
C
Less than 16. He will play for the Eagles this year but miss at least one game with injury to his groin or his ego. He will not play for the Eagles in 2006 or beyond at this point. IMO, It's unfortunate for him and the team.
link (http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/homeNewsDetail.jsp?id=32688)
QuoteBanner then said that Owens should understand his options: Play for the Eagles or don't play this season.
"We've been clear that the choices are to play under this contract or not," he said. "I'm not sure he still believes that, but we said from Day One that those were the choices on the table and he had to make a choice between one of those two things. That's not going to change.
Quote from: ice grillin you on August 12, 2005, 07:47:01 AM
I can see him causing a seen on the sidelines with Ried and the coaches or even with DMac
no you cant cause he will never be on a sideline with reid or donovan again
Does that include if he comes back on Wed.?
regular season game dawg
I have to disagree on that IGY. Reid ain't stupid. He knows that this team can't go into the regular season with a reciever corps that doesn't have over 50 regular season catches between them all. Much as I like Greg Lewis, I don't feel we can go into the season with him as our no. 1 and expect to get back to the Superbowl. The fact of the matter is, he wouldn't have even been told to come back on Wed. if Reid thought we could win the big one without him. We need him, bad, and don't think he doesn't know it either.